Spiral Knights - Story Discussion Thread (now with a less stupid thread title!)

Story Discussion Thread (now with a less stupid thread title!)

31 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 13:23

Iskender

So, let's just start from the very beginning with the background story. Knights strand on Cradle after having their flagship destroyed, before starting to take over pretty much the entire planet with the goal of opening the Core, taking the energy out of it and using it to escape the planet. Simple, right?

However, we have a few contradictions when it comes to details.

First of all, it doesn't really seem to be that important to leave the planet again, yet we keep stomping around the Clockworks in order to do so. Either the reason for why we have to go again as early as possible isn't that important in the first place or we are actually able to live on the planet without any complications. After all, we are apparently better off smashing each other's heads in in arenas or killing wildlife for materials we already got so many of than to actually, you know, trying to accomplish their mission.

Speaking of murdering wildlife. So, you might say "But Iskender, they are attacking us first when they see us!". Counter question: Would you like it if your territory was constantly disturbed by some strangers with pointy sticks and guns as big as their heads attacking everything like maniacs? Or, lemme ask the other way around: How many times was Haven directly attacked by wolvers, gremlins, devilites, anything? Okay, now how many times have you delved into the Clockworks alone, nevermind everyone going in there combined? They just want you to leave them alone.

Let's take the gremlins for example who are looked down upon by the Order for being, lacking other words, a little bit crazy. If you look at their weaponry, you'll quickly notice that it's all stuff that you could see at a construction site which should a given since the gremlins are canonically the engineers/repair men/(women?) of the Clockworks. Meanwhile, the knights are using weapons that are actually designed for effectively fighting, putting the gremlins at a huge disadvantage that can hardly be countered even by more gremlins fighting at once.

But wait! There's more! Take a look at this: Tenderfoot, Ironclaw, Darkfang. Notice the size difference. Given that evidence, it would make sense that they are mammals since they appear to grow over time. So the probability of Tenderfoot being made up of younger gremlins than in deeper strata is relatively high. Or in other words: You're very likely killing children in Tier 1. Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen!

Maybe OOO noticed the flaw that the knights are not as heroic as they seem to be. However, we still got the Shadow Lairs, hinting at the (very likely) villain of the story: The Swarm. It's obvious that the knights look better besides it, given that the Swarm is basically space cancer with the main goal to take over everything it touches. So you can imagine what would happen if the Knights actually try to open the Core. Does that stop them, however? Well, guess what? No, it doesn't. So, basically opening the Core might doom the entire planet without guarranteeing that the knights might even get off in time. In other words, the Order is trying to ruin everyone's lives without any kind of payoff. If they just have that little respect for other lifeforms other than their precious snipes or gremlin refugees (and even then it's kind of a stretch) or aren't seeing the consequences coming, I don't know.

So yeah, not really liking knights, heartless jerks that they are.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 13:34

Turqmelon

TL;DR

Everything we know is a lie.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 14:23

Tom-Awsm

-_-

Thanks for wasting 30 seconds of my life.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 15:25

Juances

Proof that we are robots.

Proof that we are robots. Robots don't have feelings.
Robots are like computers. Computers can get viruses. We got corrupted so we are malfunctioning, forgetting our primary mission.
This mess wich seemed to happen out of nowhere as if our system is bugged (i dont think snipes could plant a virus) and the lag in-game hints we are based on windows Vista.

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 02:49

Iskender

@Juances

My Lord, a comment I like!

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 13:38

Jarahdai

Cute = Evil

I like the format. The ugly enemies are just trying to protect their planet from the cute, but evil, knights that are invading their planet to steal it's resources.

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 15:09

Qror

Intersting fact: Snarbolax is

Intersting fact: Snarbolax is a just normal, big, a bit wolver-like beast, but trapped in "living shadows". Living shadows? Most likely a shadows from shadow lair. But then shadows attacked again, but not only 1 beast, but whole "Glowming Wildwoods". Now in poisoned glowming wildwoods suddenly second Rabid Snarbolax appears. That means that snarbolaxes, even trapped in living shadows, can live like normal animals (for example: they can copulate).

The end

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 02:19

Canned-Bread

Boo

Snarbolax is actually more of a chromalisk than a wolver

It's just that the head draws attention from the body

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 14:00

Qror

It seems like it's connection

It seems like it's connection of chromalisk and wolver, it has spikes and fur, which is strange

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 14:43

Biligum

Ooh.

Interesting propositions, I like them - of course, I like applying Moff's Law to stories in general. Not saying I agree with you, but I like your alternative viewpoint. I've never liked it when protagonists are just automatically accepted as the good guys, even if they continuously wreak havoc and commit innumerable atrocities. And, of course, "history is written by the winners," as the cliché goes. Although, firstly, I wonder if it's even possible to fully understand the story until Three Rings has better introduced it... But anyway.

I'm not sure about gremlins being just construction workers; I suppose Thwacker's hammers might be useful for construction and you could arguably say that Demos use their bombs for demolition, but flamethrowers aren't exactly standard issue welding equipment, unless you're planning on burning your fellow workers' faces off. (Even assuming a flamethrower could reach the necessary temperatures for welding. I dunno, I'm not a metallurgist.) Additionally, I believe the different tiers of gremlins are explained, canonically, as different clans - the size difference might, instead, be a genetic thing, with interbreeding between clans strongly discouraged. Within various fantasy pastiches, you usually see "half-elves" or half-breeds of that sort hated and ostracized. Same thing with gremlin clan half-breeds? (Assuming gremlins "breed," maybe they reproduce asexually? Seeing as how gremlins within the same class and tier look exactly the same for programming purposes, there might not be much genetic variation. Meh.) But if Tenderfoots are children, I think that says a lot about their society, both in that they send children out to routinely work on hard manual labor and in that they're sending them against trained, death-machine Knights. And on the topic of their society, it seems like King Tinkinzar is a tyrant, at least to me. He's described as "maniacal," keeps himself hidden, and his elite Crimson Order is, evidently, "to be feared." The gremlin outcasts in Emberlight are "always fearful that one day the gremlin king Tinkinzar would see fit to wipe them out entirely." I think it more likely that the Great Colony is a more complicated society than that; I'd wager a guess that while there are gremlins of a more kindly persuasion, there are probably also malevolent ones like Tinkinzar. Look at a despotic, oppressive country in the real world or in history, you'll see evil rulers and self-interested nobles, oppressed peasants and revolutionaries looking for better lives (of course, the revolutionaries aren't necessarily any better than the rulers - e.g. French Revolution), poor criminals with dispositions more horrendous than that of the oppressors, and so on.

I would agree that there's probably something bigger that is, in fact, evil and orchestrating this symphony of violence, whether it's the Swarm, the malevolent influence that corrupted Vanaduke and Almire, Tinkinzar, or something else entirely. I should definitely like to see why it is so important that we leave Cradle, though... Anywho.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 06:05

#10

Iskender

And suddenly, the thread got

And suddenly, the thread got a lot more interesting in terms of responses. I think I'll add a few things to this.

First of all, I wouldn't consider every single gremlin a nice guy, but generalizing it the other way around isn't right, either. Seeing as Tinkinzar is the king of all gremlins who prefers to stay away from his own kind, it would explain for example why (that is, if) Tenderfoot is made up of younger gremlins, since they apparently don't want the knights to reach the Core and so he tries to stop us by any means nessecary.

But the main problem for me is that there is so much information that's not available to us to make sense out of all of this. For example, how did the knight/gremlin conflict get started in the first place? Why exactly are the Emberlight gremlins living far off the colony and fear Tinkinzar's wrath? Why is it important for the knights to leave again? And if there are gremlin refugees, why aren't there any hints of knights defying the Order and living in the Clockworks? Or does just everyone accept these ways without questioning them?

That was why I was anticipating the Scenario Rooms so much because some of these question might have been answered. That was until I heard that the Scenario Rooms give away almost nothing new in terms of the story. To be honest, I don't even really know if I want OOO to flesh out the story more since the end result may make me like the game even less. On the other hand, I don't want to rely on fanfiction either since it's mostly just people begging for attention by filling out character sheets and hoping that they make some kind of impact on a flimsy, one-layer story.

And, well, I'd like to hear more about gremlins.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 07:35

#11

Mejezfeld

@OP post

How are you sure Tenderfoot Gremlins are tiny cute toddlers? They could easily be the Gremlin equivalent of adolescent testosterone-laden homophobic CS-playing thirteen-year-olds (who probably deserve all the punches to the face ever).

Regardless of their actual relative age, they're clearly brainwashed, like those kids during Iran's revolution who get sent onto battlefields with "keys to heaven"- Look how willing they are to club a sentient, living creature to death with a sledgehammer.

Furthermore, the last time I checked, the Tenderfoot Gremlins are a CLAN, so they're probably just a midget subspecies of Gremlin. Or possibly the Gammas/Omegas of a very "Brave New World" styled society which has the Alpha Double Plus Tinkinzar as it's King.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 08:30

#12

Iskender

>How are you sure Tenderfoot

>How are you sure Tenderfoot Gremlins are tiny cute toddlers? They could easily be the Gremlin equivalent of adolescent testosterone-laden homophobic CS-playing thirteen-year-olds (who probably deserve all the punches to the face ever).

Did I say anything about toddlers? I'm sure I only said "children".

>Look how willing they are to club a sentient, living creature to death with a sledgehammer.

Look at how the knights are willing to slash, shoot and bomb sentient, living creatures to death with blades, rapiers, guns and bombs. It works both ways, really.

>Furthermore, the last time I checked, the Tenderfoot Gremlins are a CLAN, so they're probably just a midget subspecies of Gremlin.

Does it say so anywhere other than the Wiki? Cause from just playing the game, I wouldn't know that this would be the case. It might as well be just a military rank. And before you argue that "it's in the wiki, so it's canon", I'd prefer to actually let the game tell me "yep, these are indeed clans".

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 09:11

#13

Axonio

One thing I'd like to mention about the king is that who knows if he was always "evil" in the first place? What if he was a good king before?

Since the swarm update, there are the echo stones and I'm going to quote one:

"This world was created to protect me.

Vulnerable in slumber, worlds were drawn to shield me from the darkness.

This world has become my prison.
In his madness, the architect betrayed the pact. Twisting his creation into a game of death, it now devours all who enter its iron embrace."

The last line could easily imply that the swarm corrupted or possessed the king, he went bananas and made him an evil overlord. And now he's following orders from the swarm and he makes the crimson order shout these orders to everyone else.

Also, I would like to ask a question, would anyone know about Vanaduke's past by just relying on the game?

I'm pretty sure I haven't found anywhere a hint of that and the modules don't say anything about it.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 09:58

#14

Guildenberg

I personally think you're

I personally think you're reading far too deep into this....but then again, it's always nice to see threads that AREN'T about Crystal Energy or the in-game economy. :p

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 12:27

#15

Iskender

Not really seeing the problem

Not really seeing the problem with reading too far into it. Evangelion fans don't have that problem, either.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 13:00

#16

Ushio-Shinoda

Simple.

Basically, this game is a mere hypocrisy. End of Discussion. It's a lie, like the cake. I don't normally dumb down my IQ to a level of complete mental retardation but that 4chan refrence/meme was well deserved.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 13:26

#17

Axonio

>Basically, this game is a mere hypocrisy. End of Discussion.

So... trying to discuss the story behind the game in the General Discussion subforum is a bad thing?

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 13:36

#18

Aleay

The real question with FSC

The real question with FSC is, who were the Almirian? they were clearly wiped by the fires of Vanaduke and his fire undead horde. but how did they manage to mount a city far down in Tier 3, maybe they also came to the planet looking for something but decided to stay in the depths, near the core. (just to continue this pointless yet highly amusing thread)

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 08:05

#19

Avixi

Throwing fuel into the fire,

Throwing fuel into the fire, via other possibilities to take into consideration:

1 - Gremlin culture is so based on construction that perhaps their tools are multi-purpose and are effectively weapons. Not the first time a there has been a game where one faction basically wields sledgehammers (Hammerites come to mind).

2 - We met the Strangers first. Perhaps the strangers may have told us that "Oh uh hey those things in the clockworks that have hammers and wrenches and welders? They're Douchebags. Seriously."

3 - Who said we were in a hurry to go anywhere? We want to power the Skylark up again, but we're not exactly pressed for time. Besides, even if we did get it up and running again, it doesn't mean we have to pack up and leave immediately.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 08:36

#20

Biligum

Really becoming quite interesting.

Definitely agreed that it's not a bad idea to be "reading too far into this," I'll again reference Moff's Law.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoffsLaw

@Iskender - You're right, by and large, I do think that we're not getting the full story, or, at least, if we are getting the full story, then Three Rings is missing out on a wondrous storytelling opportunity. It'd be nice for a change (for example) to see a deconstructionist take of the typical fantasy/sci-fi-esque MMORPG that just naturally assumes that we're set in this game to do good and that slaughtering anything in our way to garner their shinies and glorious, glorious experience is perfectly acceptable. Imagine where this could take us, the players being required to make real choices based on ethical decisions, perhaps a rebellion against the Spiral Order? Hm. I'm not sure if that'd work out to allow the game to still be fun, and it'd certainly require a massive paradigm shift away from what the game was like previously, so maybe not such a great idea. Still, the pursuit of moral resolution in at least some manner would be interesting. Wonder what's behind the curtain, so to speak, of the Spiral Order - or as Avixi said, perhaps the Strangers are hiding things? They run that mining corporation and the AH, don't they? (I think? Not sure.)

Regardless of our thorough WMG, I really hope Three Rings goes somewhere with this. Maybe not necessarily with our ideas, but at least to further explore the concepts they've put into action. I think that, above all, giving this game a real storyline and overarching plot (rather than just silly little Scenario Rooms, even though they can be somewhat interesting) is what I'd really like to see, more than new content or somesuch. Or maybe pursuing the plotline and new content could go hand in hand? Hrm.

Really hope an admin posts here and says something.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 10:40

#21

Iskender

Personally, I'd really like

Personally, I'd really like it if you'd get the choice between playing a knight and trying to take over the Core or playing a gremlin and trying to prevent that. Then again, that might as well be a different game entirely.

EDIT: Looks like Spiral Knights will be getting a deeper story now. Bumping for further discussion.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 01:41

#22

Skold-The-Drac

+1 to factions option

While I enjoy watching people wax philosophy for me (read in my place) I never really post too many of my thoughts because when I honestly sit down to put things to forums or paper my words wind up....

Jumbled Spaced

Up Annnoying
Just Like This

SO, thanks for putting down thoughts into format people can understand and I can simply say "I've thought that" so long as you guys don't start playing "It was my idea first"

Honestly do believe a factions option should become available at some point.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 09:39

#23

Guildenberg

>Not really seeing the

>Not really seeing the problem with reading too far into it. Evangelion fans don't have that problem, either.
To be fair, Evangelion had a lot of symbolism, freudian imagery, and general mind screwy-ness. Spiral Knights is a game where you control a chibi alien and kill monsters. :p

But, then again, I suppose you're right, I can't exactly let you not read into Spiral Knights (And I never intended to; that comment was supposed to be semi-joking :D ).

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:31

#24

Biligum

Hee.

@Opheicus: Haha, you're right - there is a decided lack of complexity to this game. XD Still fun though.

Also, the upcoming mission update does look really nice.

Additionally, I was wandering around Haven and found Hailoh (first stranger you see in Haven) mentioning that "shinies" (which I assume are crowns?) are "always appreciated by the Strangers," which seems to add a further level of complexity to the idea of a Stranger conspiracy of sorts. Granted, it's rather far-fetched, but I've enjoyed this wild speculation so far and I'm not going to stop. :P Anywho, whether or not it is some manner of conspiracy, I question what Strangers want "shinies" for. It seems unlikely that they would use it as currency - can you imagine the resultant inflation, with that constant influx of crowns? Granted, it works for the in-game economy, but I can't help but feel like it wouldn't work properly for the Strangers' economy. S'pose we'd need to know more about the rest of Cradle to say anything definitive though. I suppose they might use crowns as materials? Melt them down, or somesuch? Eh. Maybe they just like that they're shiny. That seems like it'd be a good enough reason for a Stranger.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:37

#25

Korakc

Omigod, this is the end of

Omigod, this is the end of all SK-y things!

All joking aside, it's a game for goodness sake. It's not real life or any thing. WHY would this need to be changed? Just to make it real-istic?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:57

#26

Axonio

I don't think we are trying to make the story more "realistic" as you say (and that didn't made any sense) but we are discussing the story of the game and our point of view of it. Again, Moff’s Law.

I'll just put it like this:

There are people who enjoy the gameplay of a game.

There are people who enjoy the story and the details that complements the game.

Again, what's so bad about discussing the story?

Tue, 01/17/2012 - 08:49

#27

Iskender

>Again, what's so bad about

>Again, what's so bad about discussing the story?

I, too, want an answer to that question.

EDIT: Thread got a new title to fit the content better.

Tue, 01/17/2012 - 09:25

#28

Darkbrady

Story is interesting, if

Story is interesting, if there was no story, then the game would feel empty and shallow without background. Look at old computer games; you're blowing people up. Why? What's your motive, your goal? Just to kill? Great, how long will that last before you get bored?
Get told that your wife has been captured and she's trapped in hell and you're killing your way to rescue her? Suddenly you have some motivation.
MMOs is a bit trickier, because the story has to always be fairly open-ended, lest the game "end", which isn't the point of this genre.

As for the Gremlins, I agree with Axonio that there's every possibility that the King has only become evil and twisted, and wasn't (necessarily) always like that.
As for their relative sizes? I always figured that was simply a "closer to the core" thing. The small ones that cannae fight or bulid with any severe degree are closer to the surface, where less needs constructed and maintained, and where the weaker invaders are likely to tread.
Closer to the core, the construction needs far more management and attention from the pros, and any intruder is also likely to be far stronger, thus requiring a tougher nature from the gremlin.

Also, you commented that only knights invade the CWs, but there's nothing to say that there's not in-fighting between the monsters.
Sure, Greavers and Devils get along, but who says that if they ever see a wolver they don't kill its face off?
It's hard to assume that, from your very own reason: how many times do we see baddies attacking Haven?
Maybe Haven is safe because all the monsters within the Clockworks are vicious and dangerous, and the surface is safe from them. There's nothing saying that whenever their floors "meet" as such, that they don't fight. They are, after all, very well segregated from each other; who says that's not by design, to prevent all out chaos from all the monsters fighting?
Between all the bedlam down in the CWs with infighting monsters, construction issues, the Swarm breaking free, an evil King etc...what's to say that the surface just isn't simply the farthest point from the epicentre of all the fighting, thusly making it safe. The Strangers discovered this as such, and appropriately named it "Haven", for it is one.

Who knows?

Tue, 01/17/2012 - 09:52

#29

Iskender

Speaking of "closest to the

Speaking of "closest to the surface"... I mean, it's a minor thing, but how much more is there to the surface that we get to see aside from the tutorial level and Haven? As for now, we are only exploring what's beneath us instead of what's around us. And since the connection to the Core is relatively stable, it would make sense to check out our surroundings. I mean, we know that there are, indeed, creatures living there that might be a threat to us. So, is Haven really the only "civilised" place you can find on the surface? What about knights that weren't lucky enough to strand close to the rescue camp and are wondering around on the other side of the planet? Or, even worse, manage to fall through the big gaps all the way down to the Core?

Though I gotta say, I really like your theory about Haven's safety. Would be definitely nice to know what relationships the enemy classes have to each other.

Tue, 01/17/2012 - 16:34

#30

Wolfkit

What I ask is this: for whom

What I ask is this: for whom was the gate system built?
We can look at this multiple ways.

1) The gate system was built for the gremlins.
This would explain why the clockwork tunnels and deconstruction zones are connected to the gates: the elevators are meant for the gremlins to move between sections of the clockworks, and the non gremlin themed strata are harvested from the surface with the express intention of more easily allowing the gremlins to harvest specific resources. The minerals would be used to allow the gremlins to choose what theme of strata are available, based on what resources are needed at the moment.
When the Skylark crashed on Cradle, the gremlins had to abandon Haven (note: while the strangers have been in Haven since before the knights came, that doesn't mean they didn't coexist with the gremlins then as they do now with the knights. OR the strangers are actually a group of gremlins whom stayed behind in disguise to keep some measure of control over Haven) and since then have lost control of a number of clockwork tunnels because of interference by knights, and monsters escaping from the sky domes during the chaos took refuge in the clockwork tunnels.

2) The gate system was built to keep intruders away from the core:
By presenting a way down, anyone coming to Cradle would take the gate system down, as opposed to, say, rappelling down. In addition to the energy system preventing knights from entering the clockworks nonstop, monsters cultivated from the surface deter intruders.

3) The gate system was built as game, such that anyone strong enough to reach and enter the Core would be rewarded.
Once the Skylark crashed (possibly intentionally, to provide a large mass of contestants) the strangers tricked them into playing the game, but told only the Alpha Squad how to enter the Core, leaving every other knight to play the game endlessly, without the knowledge required to finish.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:03

#31

Iskender

Don't mind me, I'm giving

Don't mind me, I'm giving this thread a little kick upstairs...

Search

Story Discussion Thread (now with a less stupid thread title!)