Where do you get your Radiant Fire Crystals(other than RNG Arena in Arcade/Vana/Supply Depot/Shadow Lairs) ?
Radiant Fire Crystals
Vana=You get to play 1 hour and only get like 5-10 crystals(after defeating the boss and only on the 4th and 5th levels)
Arena in Arcade=Can be very difficult because unheater 5* is worse than 4* gear(it's only better after level 8) and very luck based.
Shadow Lair with 4* gear ?
Vana runs are boring as ****.
Also I get around 30 from the average tier 3 run. That said, it's still stupidly rare.
I have no clue why they didn't make it as simple as this:
Radiants from Stratum 6
Shining from Stratum 5
...
You get where I'm going with this. They went from a shining drought to a radiant drought when the perfect middle ground was outlined right here in this post.
Why why why why WHY did OOO not make it that simple? Please, someone, explain to me why they made the system as it currently is.
I need radiant fire crystals, not 3000 shinings and 12 radiants.
I don't need to find 40 shining crystals for every 12 radiant crystals. That's ridiculous.
That's how it was before the patch that caused the radiant complaints in the first place. It was part of the arcade redux patch I think.
It is designed this way to stall. Im pretty sure they know its not that easy to heat 5* stuff now.
@Batabii Vana runs are boring....but turn on some disturbed, glitchmob, or anything else good and suddenly it transforms into an epic fight of hellish proportions.
Too bad the two god gates passed (RIP Diamong King and Coral Knight gate).
Those D27 and D28 back to back arenas rocked.
Yeah, youre best bet it vana again. Use the money you get to save, or donate to punch in exhange for his....services....
Cross dem fingers for a double level up ya know?
Wait, people agree that radiants need a buff again ?(I made a topic about buffs(that was after the radiants got buffed) and everyone disagreed.
About the Radiant Crystal drops:
I think it would be the best if the game would work like this:
Stratum 1
Dim Fire Crystals
You won't need the cracked ones because you only have the 0* gear for a short time and get crystals from the missions, 0* and 1* currently don't drop in tier 1 anyways
Stratum 2
Warm Fire Crystals
it takes some time until you get your 3* gear, so you might need this.
Stratum 3
Glowing Fire Crystals
You need some of the crystals to get your gear to level 5. As far as I know, jelly/twins are on stratum 3, so it would be easy to get.
Stratum 4
Shining Fire Crystals
Stratum 5 & 6
Radiant Fire Crystals
You need a lot of Radiant Fire Crystals, and if they would only drop in Stratum 6, you would get a lot of shining fire crystals(that's how it currently works) and playing to Stratum 6 takes some time in arcade and there are almost no good missions for it(if it would be in Stratum 5 we would have all the monster missions drop Radiants which would be very nice.
That or we could change it to how it used to be before the change.
You might think "but then Shining Fire Crystals are rare too", Fire Crystals were always in Stratum 4, but who wants to play the complete tier 2 arcade only to get some of them ?
That made me think about a change on clockwork terminals and arcade starts:
Currently you can Start at Stratum 1, Stratum 3 and Stratum 5
What if we could start at Stratum 2/4 and 6 ? The start would be after the Terminal.
And what if the end of Stratum 2/4/6 had a Terminal too ? So doing a complete arcade run to the final depth would be worth it so you can get 5* recipes easier.
Now back to the shining crystals:
We have the recipes to downgrade the crystals, remove the crown cost and it won't be a problem for anyone, why were the radiants even nerfed when we got recipes in the first place ?
@Vana runs
Vana=You get to play 1 hour and only get like 5-10 crystals
Uh. 5-10 crystals was like, months ago. It's more like 12-21 now, unless you're joining at the last stage only or something lol.
Also, if you're playing vana for the true objective (fire crystals), the most important thing to hunt are treasure boxes, not monsters, so don't spend time killing monsters you don't have to and your time will decrease by a lot. Before the most recent changes to FSC, I was starting to get down to 20-25 mins per solo run (of course, faster with a partner).
And I mean skip whatever's optional. Do 6 rooms in d25, focus on left side (since you have monster-optional rooms there).
I used to skip the boxes in d25, but apparently radiants drop there now too every once in a while, so I guess it doesn't hurt to break them and see.
In the huge-mob rooms, do what it takes to get the keys and get out.
For me, it's more tense than doing a normal run because FSC monsters are just "walls" to me at this point (too much experience, too little difficulty left), so when I'm up against my own times, it's a bit of a challenge not to make mistakes XP
In the end, if you're actually worried about money, if you can get closer to 25 mins per speed run, you'll realize you're getting at least 2 runs' worth of tokens and radiants for the same time (say, 50m-1h) you would if you were doing a full run chasing every single monster and lamp shade.
---------
Same thing goes for arcade runs: if you're doing the true objective (radiants), skip monsters and run like sonic until you get to d25+ boxes, then at that point, do whatever it takes to get more boxes (danger rooms, full arena).
Regarding Radiants, I believe that radiants should be rare. You're forging your strongest weapon/armor to its maximum potential.
"true objective"? The only "True objective" of fsc should be almirian seals. In fact, they really need to re balance the payouts so people actually play the arcade again instead of just spamming king of ashes all day every day.
Regarding karituo, they already take more radiants than any other fire crystal, AND a lot more heat. there's no reason to make level 10 5* gear nearly impossible.
So you are saying that we should upgrade our weapons to 5* to downgrade them ? A 5* weapon is weaker than a level 10 4* weapon, and only stronger after level 8. That would only turn this thing into a pay to win.
The Radiant drops used to be fine, but everyone didn't get 4* shinings because they only dropped at the end of tier 2(takes too much time to go there) and because it's only for 4 levels, which is the same problem with the current radiants.
And about vana runs:
I've done some runs, the first 3 floors give no radiants, and getting to floor 4/5 without getting stuck because of trojans does not only take time but it's a lot of try and error.
If you focus on heating only one 5* weapon, it takes roughly a week or two of just 1-2 hours a day of doing Arcade runs to get enough crystals, assuming you're selective about your levels. Nearly every week there's at least one D27/28 Arena and those bleed Radiants. But in my experience, even Aurora Isles seem to drop more Radiants than even Vanaduke.
If you spread out your heating across several weapons, it'll feel like it's taking a lot longer because you're spreading out already rare resources. Focus on one at a time, or get one to level 5 first before heating another, etc. (Also it's worth noting that I have never once forged below 100%.)
I honestly prefer the current system to the old one. When I crafted a 5* weapon, it took only like 20 minutes and it was already maxed out. It made the heat system feel pointless, which I know wasn't their intent. (Also, with free elevators now, we need SOMETHING to slow progression down.)
Additionally, you need *something* to work toward - if you could get everything quickly and easily, nothing keeps you from coming back and playing more. You get 5* gear in a week, fully heated, every weapon you want - what do you do next? There's no fun in getting everything you want immediately. It's sooo rewarding getting a new weapon fully heated now because it actually takes time and dedication. Sometimes along the way it sucks since you're doing a bit less damage - but actually GETTING there is gonna be awesome.
Most games make you spend months and months of grinding random chance to get your "ultimate" weapon, or maxing out an ultimate weapon, etc. This system is honestly faster, and if you always forge at 100%, there's literally no chance of losing anything you worked towards. I remember trying to buff up my weapons in Phantasy Star Universe and actually breaking them entirely - you'd lose your entire weapon that you spent weeks hunting in the first place.
Honestly, it takes a bit of time, but I find the SK system to be super fair.
Getting a arena in arcade=luck
Getting a arena that isn't too difficult for you and your unheated "worse than 4*" 5* gear needs even more luck.
I like the Aurora Isles, but I've never seen them on D27/28(and it's sad that you only get to play one of the 4 levels and not all 4 in a row OOO plz).
I find the SK system ok, but radiants could be more common(WE CAN CRAFT EVERY CRYSTAL OUT OF RADIANTS, but yet we don't have a lot of radiants ?)
tier 3 arenas aren't THAT hard. Just take a bomb. You shouldn't have a problem with most of the arenas then, even in depth 28.
Vvv That would be utterly insane. I would probably break my computer in frustration :P
Eh, greaver arenas are the exception, not the rule. And if I didn't have a full party, I'd probably sooner avoid them like the plague.
Regardless, T3 arcade runs tend to give a lot of radiants, from Arenas to Aurora Isles or anything else (except Compounds). Explore and have fun, and remember that your endgame/maxed out weaponry should not be handed to you on a silver platter.
I wish i could share my 20k+ radiants with you all, but I do enjoy heating anything and everything I want without hassle. Too bad rarities are bound. Happy hunting XD
@Zeddy
Sadly, it's more like fiend arenas are the most common on Depth 28/29 for me, I might haven't played for some time, but I remember that the gates had almost no arenas or only fiend arenas most of the time.
I've tried the last mission that's before vana and it doesn't drop any radiants, only shining, so we don't have any mission(that isn't FSC) to get radiants from ?
And why can't the missions that give you radiants as reward for completing them drop radiants ? Arcade RNG as the only way to get radiants isn't too good.
@Flowchart/@Dadagainalready
They used to be easy to get in the past, try now.
This community as a whole has literally complained in the past about having no reason to run the arcade thanks to missions being implemented. Now that Radiants are easiest to get in the arcade, people are unhappy that they have to run the arcade.
Never a way to please everybody. :( Just keep working at it, though. And always forge at 100% just in case you get a prize box - I hear those have radiants inside, too?
There is a reason to play arcade, recipes. They could make arcade drop more loot(because the only missions that get farmed a lot are the boss ones for loot, which drop less in arcade for some reason) and as far as I know, arcade is the only place that has Arenas that aren't the low loot storymode ones, so there is reason to play arcade.
Forcing a player to play arcade a lot and for a long time to get a chance on getting radiants is not a good idea, Arcade is the most RNG thing, how should we farm for radiants if the levels are super rare and around 33% of them are compounds ?
Except with the arcade you have to slog thru 4 dead stratum 5 maps before getting to the good ground (but-but recipes!). Not to mention only the last 3 maps have a 50/50 shining/radiant mix, then hitting the arcade exclusively for radiants then 5/6 of your hunt is wasted time.
There is now a generation of players that only craft when they find the orbs to do so, spending their crowns during the hunt for energy and in turn orbs seems too expensive to them. You could therefore make the same statement about radiants; just buy 'em!
Indeed you could buy them with your hunting profits IF IT DID NOT TAKE 7500 ENERGY TO BUY 500 CRYSTALS - AND IF YOU DON'T USE THE 3/3 FORGE OPTION THEN YOUR MONEY HAS A CHANCE OF BEING COMPLETELY WASTED, OR STOLEN AS I LIKE TO THINK OF IT, ON FAILED FORGES. It's bad enough that they cost twice as much as the preceding crystal, but you need even more of them than 4* forging, they drop only in the last half of the 5* appropriate stratum and at half the rate.. cost X consumption X rare X rare = u just lazy am i rite?
If the intent was to trick players into sinking $20 of energy for leveling each item, then good luck with that. If they are expecting us to hit the shadow lair more often, then move the bulk of the cost away from the key to the crafting.
People may disagree but 1 to 2 hours a day is rather a lot of time to put into heating an item. Not to mention with promotions on as often as they are now (grind events one every couple of weeks) you'd spend time playing trying to get promotion items.
And y'know what'd actually make radiant crystals OK with the current drop rate? A drop in their flippin depot price. If they were more reasonably priced people would grind for the money to BUY the crystals instead of find them. That's where I think OOO went wrong the most: overpricing the crystals on the depot.
The reliance on an RNG to get the crystals I need for heating is what I find ludicrous, and moreover off putting (i.e I shan't bother with the 5* variants of any upcoming promotion weapons because I know they'll never reach level 10).
"true objective"? The only "True objective" of fsc should be almirian seals. In fact, they really need to re balance the payouts so people actually play the arcade again instead of just spamming king of ashes all day every day.
When I mentioned "true objective" I meant as a player goal to heat your gear, arcade OR fsc. It's a playful way to say that you're only focusing on getting radiants (whereas in the mist days, most people used to focus on getting as many crowns as possible mid-game). btw though, speedrunning FSC is still also the fastest way to get seals/money out of that mission (instead of hunting everything).
Unfortunately, I have high doubts that Arcade will be getting any rebalance soon, because if you recall the patch that announced the Arcade Redux, they're planning to turn it into something more "sandbox"-like. So at that point, if you know it's going to change, why rebalance it until the big change?
For all we know (speculation here), it might mean losing the entire stratum system and arcade as we know it :\
Actually i agree that arcade give nice amount of radiants... when:
-Arcade Gate have a nice portal that have Clockworks or Arena at Depth 25-28 and THAT if such level are not "Random" paths.
-When you have luck, otherwise a bad luck day would net you 3-9 or not even a single radiant
taking that in mind, most of the time arcade barely generate arena at depth 25-28. most of time they always generate on depth 19-24 which its pretty bad if you want radiants (but not at all if you only going for cr) on a good run with a good gate (which not always generate thanks to the nice amount of lame compounds) i net around 42-51 radiants which i agree that with this update, radiant drought isnt that bad. on a regular run i get around 21-24 radiants its not that good when i get 42-51 but its pretty fair to stand since i mean its 20 radiants which its not that bad, because in a bad run where you only get 3 or 9.
And i DO agree that skipping floors 19-24 (if you dont mind cr and only plan to get crystal) its the best thing to do... Until i bump with a floor i dont want at depth 25 because its compound or wolver dens or whatever level dont have enough boxes (AND PLEASE LETS put ASIDE the "Compounds have nice amount of boxes, the lame thing in compounds its the fact that Boxes dont spawn in a safe rate like clockworks boxes, they spawn from 2 boxes per compound to 10 boxes por compound, it just matter of luck of the person who play there, unlike clockworks)
So what i have to do? wait from 5 mins (if such elevator have more than 3 floors) to 30 mins (When the next floors only have 2 possible paths). so if i skipped the floors 19-24 i throw away at least some cr (not much probably 1000 or 2000).
When i do Runs to arcade for radiants obviously i have to check the gate before to do the run, looking for the gate with the most clockworks levels (for danger rooms) and arenas, because otherwise i dont net that high amount of radiants. so i prefeer to do floors 19-24 because even if know im doing the run for the radiants, the time spent doing them will be the time i would spent waiting at depth 24 to the elevator change the lame compound icon to clockwork or arena icon.
What im trying to say with that its: even if im doing the run for crystal just speed running, i have to wait for the nice level with the nice amount of boxes and sometimes the time i need to wait it just damn 30 mins. reason why i dont get surprised why people prefeer to run over and over again king of ashes because, even if they know they wouldnt net a lot of radiant on that run, they dont have to wait those nice amount of time in the previous depth for the elevator change to something you really want. which if such floor delays 30 mins to change would be better you do a run in king of ashes (or well do depth 19-24) instead wasting time doing nothing.
I really LOVE doing arcade runs, its the part of the game i know when i started to play this game in 2011, and know which floors to take its what i call my relationship of "Hate-Love", i love when arcade change the floors quickly (only 2 mins of wait) and when arcade gate have a nice amount of clockworks-arena, i hate when arcade its filled with compounds (and not because i cant do them because i can, its more because that box spawn depends on your luck and the time wasted doing it dont worth the reward) and when i have to wait a nice 30 mins just to change that icon. Why arcade floors cant change every 2 mins?
But then again its my Opinion, and i just hope Arcade Redux, its better than the current arcade system, by letting player to change the floor they want to play on every elevator (not matter if cost cr or ce) but those waiting times that last from 15 to 30 mins its what make me feel pretty sad on the current of arcade (Why wasting that time when you want to play?).
So I did a vana run today, took about 1 1/2 hours and I got 12 radiant crystals from it. The second last non boss floor dropped 1 radiant and shining crystals, and even the last non boss floor still had 4*(which reduces the chance of getting a 5* even more because boxes can drop materials(usually drop useless 1* materials), crowns, heat(almost useless now, maybe make that less common ?), pills, vials, and other crystals. a 5* gear needs something around 450 crystals, this means that it takes almost (37, add that up to 40 because of luck)40 vana runs(I was lucky on my party here, other players only got 6)=over 40 hours on heating ONE 5* weapon.
I've bought radiants from the supply depot once, way overpriced but the only way to get radiants without having to waste time ?
The problem with that is this:
A player gets crowns and spends that on energy for orbs. Now with Radiants, a player needs to spend energy on both.
Why is this thread still alive? I answered the question in the first post.
Oh, right. Another radiant thread.
Do I dare link all my objective number crunching on the forge update again to show that F2Pers actually craft and heat lvl 10 5* gear faster while P2Pers don't? The only valid argument in this entire radiant debate is not farming - it is P2P farming (which they placed an extreme nerf to make the game less "pay to get all the best gear" because it now costs more). I don't even have to link to my numbers and ideas because it is the same people rehashing the same ideas.
Fun fact: If you want to farm elite orbs right now, ONE of the arenas in the arcade has the same number of boxes and crown payout(31 box + 3-3.5kcrn from arena, 32 box + 3kcrn from mission) as the entire RJP/IMF mission.
Oh, that wasn't me, I was just noting his name sounded like mine
I don't have a problem with their availability but maybe they can reduce the number needed. (Although, I guess they still have to keep it higher than 4*)
Last time I did tier 3, I got 10-15 radiants. That is not "a lot". From that same run, I probably got 60+shinings. And you need less shinings than radiants for level 10 anyway.
Let's not forget that we can craft radiants down to shining and shining to 3*..... but we can't craft shining crystals into radiants.
I have over 2500 shinings, and I would gladly craft them into a measly 500 radiants if it would let me.
What the ♥♥♥♥, OOO?
Explain this ♥♥♥♥!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=291361134
Pointing out this was an ENTIRE TIER 3 run. I started at emberlight, and went all the way to the core. TODAY. There's no excuse for this.
its called bad luck and yes i hate when that happens, when the third cataclysm event ended i did runs to arcade to get again some radiants, there was a nice gate for radiants run, 9 clockworks level in the entire gate so was pretty pretty nice to do tier 3 run, but sadly... if i got 3 or 4 danger rooms on depth 19-24 then i wouldnt get anymore danger rooms on depth 25-28 (bad luck) or well if i get danger rooms i wouldnt get at all radiant or only 3-9 raidants (bad luck again), and well was a pain to get only 3-9 radiants due my bad luck there and hey was a 9 clockwork gate!!. (runs from 30- to 50 mins wasted again and add more time when i need to wait for gates to change deconstruction because thats one of the thing that people dont like in arcade, waiting the elevator to change the level that sometimes take 30 mins of your time you going to play).
sadly i have to run again King of Ashes because... only take 26-33 mins to me, give me around 12 to 21 radiants and i dont need to wait.. which is sad because i love arcade, so now King of Ashes its my source of radiants and arcade only to heat up my gear :/
Luck or not, there's no reason that should even be POSSIBLE. It's just more proof that radiants are stupidly broken.
@Sweet-Hope:
Well, the nature of the mission system has made it so that you can pick a mission and immediately skip to Stratum 6 (you know, the most profitable stratum).
KOA/FSC just happens to be both Stratum 6 AND a boss mission (tokens for getting more money? OKAY!) so of course if you're trying to optimize your radiant gains over time / cost, that becomes one of the fastest options.
@Batabii:
...That's how luck is.
I was playing a no-reset Fire Emblem 3DS run and nearly rage-reset because I wasn't watching my tank character and he died suddenly... to a mage's 3% crit. I hate the fact that I lost him, but looking back at it, I think it's hilarious that it was specifically because I wasn't watching Kellam.
On the other side, again going with the calculative gamer route, whatever gets you to d26-d28 boxes quickest will get you the quickest returns for radiants. The quicker you can get to boxes, the more chances you have to get radiants.
I met someone who (I realized it much later) had a pretty clever idea. He was willing to pay people to invite him right before Vanaduke. That's essentially buying your way to Radiants. I mean, people like me give no second thought to this - extra 1k for something I'm already doing? Sure!
Smart guy.
You didn't hear me. I KNOW its luck. But there's no reason it should even be a possibility. They need to make it so you're GUARANTEED to get at least a certain number of radiants, or better yet, replace shinings with radiants after depth 23 ENTIRELY.
I would be happy if they only allowed radiant drops at and after depth 26. Having rads only after 23 wouod be too many.
But it is extremely ridiculous to open boxes on 27 and 28 and see shinings come out. I just ignore shingings, not like 2k is gonna run out anytime soon. Or 10k in some people's cases.
When the forge system was first introduced, radiant fire crystals were found on depth 24 of vans and beyond. They should make it like that again plz OOO
A single 5* item needs a grand total of 453 radiants at 100% chance. By comparison, you only need 309 shinings for a 4* item. So having them appear in a measly 5 depths is NOT a bad thing.
You didn't hear me. I KNOW its luck. But there's no reason it should even be a possibility. They need to make it so you're GUARANTEED to get at least a certain number of radiants, or better yet, replace shinings with radiants after depth 23 ENTIRELY.
- Oh, while they're at the guarantee reward for time thing, how about doing away with 70% chance forging? yeah, yeah??? Or instead, maybe have things heat up automatically as you play and level and monetize off playtime instead of chance. Or maybe have a subscription or one-time pay model so things like paywalls aren't even an issue of design and the entire game can be designed around a completely enjoyable experience instead of trying to annoy people into paying over and over again.
I'm sorry, I've been jaded to not expect convenience from F2P games.
- If you'd like the convenience of only having radiants drop, shadow lairs do replace shinings with radiants IIRC. I heard about this and joined a Snarb run - there weren't many crystal drops, but they were definitely radiants. While I myself haven't played it, I hear UFSC is pretty great for it, for that reason.
This is why I think the developers should alter the forge to speed heating up instead of limiting it; fire crystals would be applied to add heat and gear would require A LOT more heat than it does now. It would still take the same amount of time to heat something and playing the specific levels that give you crystals would be worth your while, but you wouldn't feel the pressure of having to grind out your 5,000 runs anywhere; instead, you could potentially opt to just run the jelly king way way way more times than would ever be necessary.
This alone would kill so many birds with the one stone. Putting fire crystals as a positive aspect of the crafting system rather than a negative one would breed a better outlook on the F2P model that Three Rings has going for them, making it so that heat rarely goes to waste and actually functions makes for a less disjointed experience, adding value to killing monsters while not destroying the value placed on treasure boxes would help to make levels above 26 worth playing through, not forcing players into learning about the forge allows them to discover it at their own pace... it would even cure cancer and deliver peace to the middle east.
That right there has to be the best Forge-related suggestion I've seen so far.
Leave it to Fehzor to come up with all the great ideas.
I didn't come up with it. I just kind of copied it and tweaked it a bit, but its still probably the best I've seen.
Fehzor's suggestion is fine, but it hinges on making items require dramatically more heat than they currently do. How dramatic is "dramatically" is something quantitative, not qualitative. That is, it's a number to be tuned based on player patience, company revenue, etc.
The fundamental principle is that players should be able to accomplish everything in the game slowly, but should be able to accelerate the process by spending real money. That's a nice way for a free-to-play game to operate.
The current Radiants system also conforms to that principle. Players can slowly earn the crowns needed to buy the energy needed to buy the Radiants. Or they can spend money to get some Radiants more quickly.
Yes, I know that players have to grind for a long time to get these Radiants. And I know that spending real money gets you surprisingly few Radiants. But that is not a qualitative difference; it's a quantitative difference, that just has to be tuned.
In short, there is nothing essentially new here. We're just arguing over whether the rate of Radiants is too low or not, yet again.
@Bopp: "The fundamental principle is that players [...] should be able to accelerate the process by spending real money."
Heat Amplifiers. Not only would it renew their long-neglected purpose, but the enticing bonus they provide is perfectly viable to holding up this practice.
I agree that heat amplifiers are fairly neglected, but I can only think of a couple of things they could do under the current system if they were to be remade.
-Double the amount of fire crystals one gets. (Picking up a fire crystal gives two instead of one)
-Make a forge pass that allows you to pass through specific levels without forging. It probably would not be a good idea to make it every level of a piece of gear, but maybe 8, 9, and 10 would be a great set of levels. That would effectively halve the forging cost.
-Decrease the forging cost while using a heat amplifier.
All of these would remove the double-heat bonus that a heat amplifier gets.
Why put fire crystals on the supply depot when you can remove them and make heat amplifiers related to the forge in some way?
--- On another note.
Currently, the best option for gaining radiant crystals is to go on a UFSC run. If you count the price of the radiant crystals, the crowns, the materials, and the orbs acquired, you end up making profit. http://i.imgur.com/ikJBPAa.png
However, this is not a good solution to the problem. I shouldn't have to go into a shadow lair to guarantee that I'll be able to heat up A SINGLE 5* item in a week without boring grinding.
(Also, from my experience the other shadow lairs give one third to one half of the amount of radiant crystals that UFSC offers. Just a side note.)
You've listed almost all of them. I mean really what type of question is this: Where do you find stuff except where you find can find them?
Just missed forge prize box (radiant version), trade, and auction house.
Edit: Forgot missions.