Yes yes I know there's a lot of posts. I thought I might create one here so people can refer to this one.
Go ahead and debate.
I personally thing Cold Iron Vanquisher is equally as good as Leviathan, knowing that both swords with triumph at the same attack strength at lv 10.
And with cold iron's undead perk, a smaller amount of weakness is worth dealing with.
Same with the cautery sowrd compered to nightblade. Just get an elemental sword for zombies.
Their charge is the same just tested a cold iron carver and a ascended.
"The stat bars are wrong. The Vanquisher deals significantly less damage to all enemies, and only deals -slightly- more damage on Undead than the Leviathan. On top of this, the Vanquisher's charged attack has much less knockback, leaving you wide open to counterattack." -Gigafreak
While you are correct that the CIV does less damage than the Levi, I would disagree that it does significantly less. I and a friend did an experiment with a CIV and a Levi. Both Lvl 10, No UV's on either swords or on our gear. The gear we were using had no bonuses to damage of any kind. We found that while the CIV hit for consistently less damage, it was still rather close.
example:
Tier 2 Lumber Constructs:
CIV: 84 damage with 1 normal swing
Levi: 94 damage with 1 normal swing
According to the results, the Levi does greater damage. however, this greater damage is only of higher value by 10.
That is factual evidence.
This is my opinion: This difference in damage isnt as significant as it has been made out to be because with only a difference of 10 (in this case only) it takes the same number of hits to kill the Lumber construct. The amount of damage is irrelevant if it takes the same time and # of swings to kill.
The damage vs. Undead for CIV v.s. Levi has a greater difference than 10 in favor of the CIV which makes the CIV more efficient than the Levi.
Based on what I have found I would go with the CIV unless you never ever EVER plan to fight anything undead. Aren't there plenty of undead in FSC?
70% of our monsters are undead.. If you guys haven't noticed now XD
The difference in damage beteween a levi and a CIV is about 10%, to compare that is about the advantage that wearing full ash tail gear would give your. So that is actually pretty huge. On depth 14 this is "only" 10 point difference. But that is only because 5* swords are nerfed in tier 2. (Yes, an ascended calibur would have done more damage, than the Levi in this case (95)!) In tier 3, where the damage of these weapons reaches their full potential the difference becomes bigger (in an absolute sense).
Wouldn't you wan't a bamf sword that has chains on it? i would. So i wuold say Cold Iron Vanquisher would be my choice weapon.
"Their charge is the same just tested a cold iron carver and a ascended."
Try them on Tier 2 against
1) A jellycube that's charging an attack, and
2) A Lumber golem.
Seriously, do it. The Leviathan line has enough knockback to send them sailing away, whereas the Cold Iron line won't even push them out of their attack range. You will most likely get hit if you use a Cold Iron on either of those two targets there. Or if it's Alpha Wolvers you'll get seriously messed up. The Cold Iron line actually has less knockback than even the 2* Calibur.
Leviathan charged attack: "OUTTA MY FACE!!"
Cold Iron charged attack: "Back off. Pretty please?" *Thwack* "Ow."
Y'know what's crazier? The most dangerous Undead in the game is the Phantom. And the Leviathan's knockback is much more useful against them than the Cold Iron's damage bonus. It can't even do its own job when you really need it to.
I prefer the Cold Iron Vanquisher. Mine has served me well in my runs.
My Knight wears Dread Skelly helm and Vog cub coat, so the spooky, chained sword looks so much more cooler.
The Leviathan may do more points in damage, but sometimes, you just have to go for style points.
Also, Gigafreak, I rarely use the charge attack for knockback, I use it to inflict massive amounts of damage on immobile/corned in targets.
The fact that it doesn't send enemies across the screen usually means it can get all 3 hits in on succession. Its handy to just butt-rush mobs and get in 2-3 hits on multiple enemies. ( I rarely go solo, so its easy when the mobs distracted)
Anyway, there both good weapons. I would say its just a matter of preference on this one.
I have a CIV at lvl 10, and a Levi at lvl 10.
The CIV does a consistent 14% less dmg than Levi to non-undead
CIV does about 5% more dmg to undead.
These are at depths past the terminal of T3. The most important depths I think.
I think that leads to a really obvious conclusion, but draw your own.
Have you guys taken that into account? Also if your getting hit with the CIV spin attack you're doing something wrong. I've used mine and I've mastered it i have pretty much rarely ever been hit with a CIV when using spin attack. and usually it hits 3 times also it allows you do stupid stuff like spin attack, run around spin attack, run around spin attack until the thing is dead. Where the supposed Levi knocks it far away, which then you have to chase after the enemy.
P.S CIV looks cooler
I don't get how knockback is a huge issue. Why would you want knockback on a charge attack that doesn't show full potential unless you're close enough to hit 3 times? CIV has less knockback but less reach, Levi has bigger knockback but bigger reach. CIV looks cooler, Levi looks like a popsicle. I have a CIV with very high vs. slime and I love it. I'm hitting higher than people do with Levi with the charge. You'll probably kill the enemy 2 seconds slower than Levi but you're not gonna die 1 million times with it... Get skolver, barborous thorn shield, and a calibur with some type of damage UV if you want to get a CIV. Can't handle getting hit when using the charge attack? Get behind the enemy. Don't like the way skolver looks? That's what your costume slot is for. Your choice if you want a CIV, just know how to use it and have some equips that compliment the thing. Oh, if you can't handle the phantoms then shield bump them, block them, whatever. CIV still knocks the enemy back btw. Sorry if I sounded like a huge fanboy here btw :3
So your advice is to wear full skolver with a barbarous shield and a dmg uv huh? Your knowledge of game mechanics seems pretty weak, I won't even bother myself to spoon feed you information just wanna lol @ u and suggest you do some research on how +dmg uvs stack.
To all of those who say the CIV is cooler, I agree, but cooler doesn't necessarily mean it is better. I find my Ascende Calibur's charge knockback extremely useful, sure you can live without it, you will just live less without it. By using such a powerful charge, you are likely to save your and your teammate's lives if you aim well (and not knock a lumber right into your own teammates). It is also great for getting out of tight spots. And I find a damage bonus to only one type of monster rather useless.
By the way, Levi is not that ugly.
there's nothing bad about what he's saying. he's maxing out everything, although in that case the slime UV becomes useless. i'm going for a CIV right now. i'm going to(usually, except when i really need the pierce resistance) wear a divine mantle and a skolver coat, and alternate shields, one being the barbarous thorn(but usually a grey owlite). I also have a high UV vs slime. the thought behind it being that the slime boost from the UV, the already present undead bonus, and the medium fiend bonus work together to boost my damage above leviathan against the 3 most troubling types of monsters i've encountered. now when you combine those with the scolver, that becomes very high vs fiend, and ultra vs undead and slime, while making up for some of the loss that could have been prevented by leviathan. when i use the barbarous thorn, i max those 3, and still have a slight boost over a normal leviathan. Imo, that's more useful than leviathan. but again, that's my opinion.
I went Leviathan, but of course I also carry a Divine Avenger. No need to worry about undead with one of those.
I personally would call the Leviathan the superior of the two swords for MOST weapon load outs. I say this because why would you ever carry a normal damage sword if you wanted to specialize in killing a particular enemy? Normal damage swords are supposed to be versatile kill-alls in my opinion. The Leviathan fits that description very well!
But then again, if I went Gran Faust, or Archeon instead of DA I'd be swinging a CIV over the Leviathan.
Since you're so smart then what do you suggest? LOL. Proto shield and armor? Its a suggestion, if they have something better in mind then they can go for it. My suggestion was actually good because CIV will hit higher with those equips and maybe even higher than the popsicle. If you don't like a damage UV then get a Calibur with increased attack speed. I don't see you suggesting anything on this thread. All you've done is troll and create a poorly constructed pairing of sentences. Please, quit Spiral Knights.
@God
While qyv could have wrote his comment a bit more nicely he/she does have a slight point, You recomended Full Skolver and Barb shield thats Max damage against everything, so getting a damage UV would in Fact be wasted. And with that said, levi with Full Skolver and Barb will outdamage CIV+Full Skolver+BArb becuase the damage icrease to undead becomes wasted due to the armor and shield. So general thought process, baseline Levi out does Civ on almost everything EXCEPT undead (due to the fact civ has that slight bonus). If you factor in armor and shield buff levi now does more damage on everything period. It's ok to get defensive and all, but you should try to understand what they are saying or ask again before you just repeat the same thing proving qyv to correct.
**in the event i dont know what im talking about(which is possible) someone can tell me to shut it lol**
Like puregold mentioned, with the right gear and a Dmg UV medium+ on the CIV, you can get up to 3 Very high/maximum dmg Bonuses, which makes it a pretty useful and versatile kill-all sword that only does a bit less dmg on the 3 remaining types of monsters compared to Levi.
Now, if you aren't using any sword dmg boosting gear, the advantages of the CIV are reduced a lot. And yet, the slight dmg bonus is the only advantage the Levi has over the CIV. You could count the knock-back as another advantage like mentioned by a few ppl, but tbh I've been using CIV for a few months, and I can't remember the last time I got hit because it didn't knock away my opponents far enough.
Now, if you want to craft one of those swords, you're not planing on using any dmg bonus gear and just stick with Vog Cub or any other gear that doesn't fit in that category, then Leviathan is the better choice. But I would consider it a waste to craft a Leviathan if you allready have a CIV only for the bit of additional dmg.
Well, actually, the reason i went for leviathon was becuase of the looks...
...now i know some of u guys say that the leviathon looks like a popsicle...
IK my sense of beauty may be off, but the Lev is symmetrical =).
also, I find that a sword having a blue "eye"-like dot towards the tip does not look very swordly.
Well again ill say that my eyes/sense of art may not be normal, but hey, art is about how u percieve things. Some people may like the looks of the Lev. blade more than the looks of CIV.
Some people dont even care about how a weapon looks, and only about the results. Altho some may argue, i do sincerely think that the lev. looks better than the CIV.
Here is a very simple example of what i mean: http://www.mindfake.com/illusion_35.html
Different people see different things =) (altho i may be the only "different people" when in this argument)
Feel free to criticize, i like to see others opinions.
I'm not talking about comparing CIV and Levi with the same Skolver gear etc. I am aware if you used a Levi with the same gear it'd still be stronger no matter what. I'm talking about what people can do to make a CIV as strong/stronger than a Levi because people are always whining that CIV hits lower. In reality though, it takes a only a FEW more seconds to take down an enemy with CIV than it does with Levi. A few seconds can't hurt anybody, unless you're that bad. Plus it works this way: Skills > Equipment
(REPEATING MYSELF SO MY POINT IS CLEAR) Again, what I said about wearing Skolver and Barborous shield was a SUGGESTION. A suggestion for all CIV users. I wasn't trying to compare both of the weapons with that same gear equipped.
But anyways, how about we all move on to wearing Vog, Swiftstrike, and some heavy swords like DA, Gran Faust, and Khorovod eh? ^_^
People need to realize one thing, as long as you compare Levi and CIV, the Levi will come on top on most situations by a very small margin. HOWEVER, if you look at the big picture, both swords are fairly mediocre when it comes down to it, the only difference is that CIV excels against undead.
So ask yourself this next time that CIV vs Leviathan pops into your head..
"Do I want a mediocre sword that is mediocre against ALL targets OR do I want a mediocre sword that EXCELS vs undead?"
If you cannot reach your own conclusion with that, then by all means, you deserve a Leviathan Blade.
The CIV does 10 less damage than Levi on non-undead monsters. But the CIV does 10 MORE damage on undead than Levi.
It's situational. If you fight a lot of undead, use CIV. If you want to be more all-around, use Levi. There IS one gate out there that has an undead stratum before FSC, the Silver Pawn Gate. CIV is quite useful in that gate at the moment.
But yeah it's just situational.
Well most people with CIV do FSC (altho i dont cause my computer is old, and I lagg really really really realllllllly bad on FSC), and in that case CIV would be a good choice.
In a couple months or so, IF a new t3 stratum comes out, that's more profitable than FSC (i.e. King trinkin-something), then perhaps a Lev. blade would be the wiser choice (assuming there is no undead guys).
Also in T3 (if u check the wiki), the Lev blade does around 20 more damage on everything EXCEPT undead. In that situation, the CIV does around 15 more damage than the levi. There is 6 monster groups. The Levi is more effective on 5 of them, and the CIV is more effective on 1. Therefore (considering u ecounter each monster group on average, around the same amount (in time)), the levi is more useful in 5/6 situations (83.3% more useful), and the CIV more useful in 1/6 situations (16.7%).
Levi: 83.3% (20 more damage 83.3% of the time)
CIV: 16.7% (15 more damage 16.7% of the time)
Now if u only do FSC 100% of the time, then, by all means, the CIV is around 100% more useful.
U can look at it this way:
lim Un/dEAd ENcouNTer->100%, CiV 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
It's also vice-versa:
lim Un/dEAd ENcouNTer->0%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul, and CiV 100%->0% mOar uSEFul
lim BeASt ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
lim sLIMe ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
lim GreMLin ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
lim ConSTRuct ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
lim FiENd ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->100% mOar uSEFul
Generalized (edit):
lim aLl mONstERs ENcouNTer->100%, LeVI 0%->83.3% mOar uSEFul, CIV 0%->16.7% mOar useful
Note 1: I did not factor in CHARGE attack usefulness (debatable) and style points (also debatable), or any other variables
Note 2: remember that as ,i.e. Beast encounter, approaches 100%, then since Levi only encounters beast, it is approaching 100% mOar useful
Note 3: note this is only a comparison Levi vs CIV, no other weapons
Note 4: there is many variations for this
Note 5: This is only a simpified equation
Edit:
Also note that:
lim Un/dEAd ENcouNTer->50%, lim BeASt ENcouNTer->50%: CiV 0%->50% mOar uSEFul
There is many permutations and different equations for different percentages
....everyone knows Wrench Wand is where it's at~
Why doesn't anyone just carry around both?
Neither
Sword loadout???
Divine veil+Skolver coat/Virulisk/Piercin armour
Vog/Volcanicsala/other elem armour+Radiant silvermail
Dragon scale+dredsklly/snarblax/anjelic lines
Any elem brand/DA
Achie/GF
BTB/FF/Rig/otherFF
Hmm extra slot what to put????? Turret desrtroyer FOV/Any gun/Any bomb
Shield??
CoA/Dsklly
Gry owlite
BTS/Ironmight/Aegis
Swift strike buckler
See those set are(roughly) good on all monsters of course you would try to have specialist stratum stuff but if not carry those things UVs??you know em'
Civ vs Levi?
FSC grind it!!Civ
t2/t1 Levi
if ur gunner/bomber levi=non undeadCiv=undead
Thread over i win
¬ Sppw
in my opinon both sword are the weakest in the game. the levi does have great knock back and is good and tight spots, but i find that with my glacius i never GET in those tight spots in hte first place. and with a combuster (which i dont have so my data may be wrong) you can get equal or great knock back, just only in one direction but wiht far greater power. but if i had to choose between teh levi and CIV, then i would choose the CIV. i mostly play FSC or graveyard levels, and as zombies are my FAVORITE monsters, the CIV just seems the greatest choice. also, i have a carver with a fiend very high UV, so added with the undead base varient it is perfect to fight all shadow monsters. the levi may do more damage against all other monsters, but since only the undead and fiends are my concern, the levi is -almost- useless to me. the cold iron line also has less knock back so although you may be found left wide open more with the charge, there is a better chance of getting multiple hits while the levi will always get only one unless you are against a wall. but if you are stupid enough to charge your sword with the thought of being hit anyway, then you need to find another attack style. that being said, i am a sword-master at heart and aim to own ALL the sword in-game so i will ultimate own them both. oh, and on a side note, the CIV owns the levi 8 ways to sunday in style points, and i just love killing monsters in style so there is still no comparision.
Please note the original posting date.
Don't necro kids, it's not cool.
"knowing that both swords with triumph at the same attack strength at lv 10."
The stat bars are wrong. The Vanquisher deals significantly less damage to all enemies, and only deals -slightly- more damage on Undead than the Leviathan. On top of this, the Vanquisher's charged attack has much less knockback, leaving you wide open to counterattack.