I was just in an ice arena, and when I got hit by an ice lumbar, I would get frozen (as expected). Then, they would just continue to hit me until I died. I thought freeze was supposed to wear off after a hit?
Freeze
Freeze does wear off after a hit, but if the thing hitting you has a strong chance of a status applying, you're not getting away unless you prayed to the RNGesus beforehand. Sleep had this exact same problem.
the freeze stacking is why I got a maskeraith
shadow cloak FTW
(now its a punkin)
What killed the Spiral knights?
Just grab a heater shield if it bugged you so much, or if you can grind and survive try to grab an omegaward
You can also become immune to the freeze lumber deal... But it generally isn't a concern when an icy shield would do you much better.
True one, freeze is pretty overpowered. Well, all you can do is being prepared for next time; If you have Seraphynx or Maskeraith - don't waste cooldown. You can buy 2* Calibur and try to charge, which have got good knockback (When you get damage before the charge is 50%, then you get boost to its charging speed), or craft freeze/elemental armor/shield.
^ it only works with fire ticks. Dont try that.
The charge is set to 50% unless it's at 100% when you get hurt while charging. If you're at 99% and get hurt you're back to 50%, and if you're at 2% you're pushed forwards to 50%.
Last I checked at least.
Truth be told, the way that monsters deal status is umm.. what to call it... cheap?
everthing just deals status, theres not much thought behind it, status are a nice thing with different mechanics, but since everything deals it, some statuses become broken when facing certain enemies, silversaps are a perfect example, things like lumbers shouldn't be able to deal freeze because it is too powerful and unfair when compraed to other lumbers.
And that is also the reason why statuses like sleep and curse have been removed or are very restricted.
one thing that I like though is the way that when you are in a fire themed deconstruction zone , some gremlins become scorchers, but the thwackers remain the same, it doesn't become a statuspocalypse of spamming (even if the ammount of scorchers is really kind of spammy), it's a somewhat smarter change that adjusts to the level and its respective status instead of turning monsters from red to green.
Now I don't want to be overly negative or salty, it's what we got, TBH I always thought that the original concept of how statuses would be used in monsters was more than what we got now, scorchers, red rovers and rocket puppies are proof that probably they intended to do something similar for every other status, another thing is how much the game revolved around creating levels with minerals and that was probably intended to be a big thing for the game, with a lot of diversity and things to discover, but for reasons that are unknown to me they were unable to make it so, and what we got is the current clockworks that no one seems to like, later they saw that the clockworks was not working how they wanted to and thats when missions dropped by, now I wonder, are the clockworks really kill?
whao, it's amazing how a thread so small got me making such a long response... I need to stop derailing threads... but i just CANNOT!
@Aviri I agree 100%, the highly damaging monsters having the strongest status affects doesn't make sense for me either - 1 hit from a shock/freeze lumbar or mecha will often turn out to be fatal. Gremlin knockers are not very accurate and do basically no damage, AND they seem to be themed around statuses - IMO they should have strong/high proc attacks.
It is not that silversaps deal too much damage that makes them overpowered, it is the fact that they can have you locked in freeze until your eventual death after getting frozen because basically every attack will lead to becoming frozen again and getting hit again and again and again, some statuses are just not fit to be spammed over and over by everything, the reason I mentioned scorchers and red rovers is because those kind of enemies rely on keeping you on fire instead of having their status to just be a byproduct of simply getting hit, notice that both red rovers and scorchers's direct damage is weaker than most other monsters normally deal, but in exchange they have attacks that track you and cover large areas with fire, making it easier for them to hit you, because they truly make sense out of the status they deal ,keeping you on fire and wearing you out, that is their purpose, oilers fall in the same category, they aren't very different from other slimes, but they at least make a synergy with fire that makes sense, silversaps on the other hand deal freeze because welp, they're a white lumber in a freeze level and they will freeze you because... y'know ITS WHITE!! sometimes it just feels like they're there to justify status defense on armors rather than providing a different experience.
You see now what I mean? Other monsters don't make sense of their statuses like that, they don't make a smart use of it, they just do it because they're themed of shock, so every attack they land will shock, statuses are very different from one another but their effects aren't used accordingly, shock themed monsters are much more powerful than fire themed monsters, why? because they're the same monster, with the same attacks, the same AI and the same stats ,with the only exception of being immune to their own status, now shock is obviously more powerful than fire, thus causing a big difference of difficulty between them that doesn't make much sense.
My belief is that fire themed monsters were the first to be worked on, but they later abandoned their efforts of making status monsters different from each other... it seems that at some point in the development of the game, the devs had to literally rush the launch of the game, the imbalances this caused led to the removal of sleep, and curse still remains an enigma for me, probably it didn't even get time to be worked on.
The biggest problem with silversaps is the lack of Freeze/Stun/Elemental resistant items, you can't have all 3 without getting some fancy UVs.
Freeze, much like shock teaches you to be very careful when battling monsters, to know how to not just dodge but to have good timing when you have to shield.
I have seriously watched 50k prestige vanguards die from common enemies just because they don't shield. I hear all these people babbling about how this shield and that shield are soooooo great but very rarely do I see anyone (save a few) actually know how to shield.
If you can't shield just become an Amazing Sniper
Actually, the fire status used to be good. Like game breakingly good. It used to spread freely between enemies and players, while flame snakes used to bounce off of walls. This lead to fire clearing the entire map of mobs every time the status was brought about- it's no wonder why the flame snakes and other fiery attacks feel weak now. Other attacks with fire are exactly the same as other attacks with ice however- which is why I would still consider fire to be one of the worst status effects, demanding you to resist it.
But seriously though, here is a thought: Become immune to the ice lumbers if you're really having that much trouble with them. I'm not sure how much resistance it takes, but freeze UVs are possibly the easiest variants to come by, and you don't need to be resistant to stun, ice AND elemental AND normal for it to work. You only need to be resistant to the ice segment, preferably on a normal + elemental armor if you can afford that.
Yes, the freeze locking is kind of terrible and broken, but it's 100% avoidable via gear or making a conscious decision not to stand stupidly in the middle of 2-3 ice lumbers. The game never puts you in a situation where you're fighting say, 20+ ice lumbers in a small confined area. The most you ever fight is like 6, on certain arenas. I kind of want that 20 lumber situation to be in the game, as it would present an interesting dilemma.
Avoid getting hit.
Or bring a Nitronome.
Or bring an appropriate shield.
I tried to say that you couldn't become immune to it a while ago (I didn't think you could), but Zeddy corrected me on steam and I went back and fixed my post. I haven't tested it explicitly though- I might look into it later and see if you haven't already... so have you?
If I remember correctly I was unable to become immune to a silversap wearing full skolver + sprite freeze bonus high, I am unable to go any higher however, so that is kind of a no, I'll gladly correct it if someone verifies that it is possible to become immune to a silversap, but I have understood that only weak versions of statuses are able to be completely ignored with resistances.
You can be immune to moderate too, was able to be immune to a silversap with +10 at D19. +9 doesn't work. This is the same as many other enemies (frostifur, etc.) (I don't have a comprehensive list, maybe I should start one)
Skolver + sprite bonus should have been enough though. I used bkc + nameless poncho + sizzling heartstone pendant.
I did a few tests @ d21 (3rd depth of In Cold Blood), started w/ 14 points (bombastic set; helmet with freeze low, armor with freeze med + freeze perk), let it hit me 5x, no freeze. Did it w/ 13, still nothing. Then with 12, 11, down till 9, and it still didn't freeze me.
Then again, I belive that this was due to the lower depth, I can't tell what would happen in startum 6, but this was the only lumber I was certain to find - and I don't want to do an iq run just to test. ^-^
Not rly related, but do redwards still don't do fire status? Recently I've seen quite a few players in bk and/or chaos set getting hit by them (from the one near the end of t3 och), and none of them got ignited. I remember a thread about this, but don't rly wana necro that.
They still don't, I let myself get hit a few times from the ones in the D28 arena today, didn't catch on fire (had +4: chaos cowl + volcanic plate fire med)
Thats fine I guess, since you can stuck shocked and die. What have you thinking about when whalked under lumbers blunt?
Oh just found your thread about fiends, stop it please Dimpl, learn to survie! People did FSC runs in proto gear those days without deaths.
Learn to dodge, take off your shield and go to devilites depths. After that you'll pwange any monster in any gear. And definitely you will start to hunt danger rooms in stratum 6.
"I can't beat it, so it is overpowered" this is how you think at the moment.
"I couldn't beat it because I wasn't good enough" this is how knight think.
Well, there is even difficulty levels for people who learn to play.
The best weapon for learning this skill is the Magnus. Keep your eyes on the fiends to see if any are going to throw, then after one does use your magnus to lock it down with flinch. If your position is nice just use a shield (Dread Skelly or Crest of almire).
Most players use a flourish to kill fiends and while it is powerful you need to carefully strafe the fiends till you can find a safe opening. To deal with overtimers just run about holding a sword charge then run behind a corner or dodge carefully them ambush them with that charge. It should deal enough damage to finish at least one off.
If soloing you could bomb but that requires more skill than the others. If you feel up to it bring a VT and a DBB.
Yes, I play with Iron Slug and Sudaruska more than three and a half years already (got Khorovod for a long time, that was pain lol)
It is very important to solo, because you manage all monster by yourself.
Ewbte soloed daily prestige missions (fiend themed) in fencing jacket + cyclops cap + iron slug (no shield). So I was able to take only two hits in a row.
And that gave me one more reason to play everyday.
After some practice I was able to dodge in party, except when party member pokes monsters at you with polaris, well, that is a challenge too, just as a part of cooperative gameplay, where players should think about each other.
Just because there are ways to deal with fiends doesn't mean they are any less overpowered than they are in comparison with other monsters, if you find that too hard to understand then probably nothing else will work.
Unless you use that as some kind of rationalization to lie to others and yourselves.
I agree with aviri there, i really didn't want to try and say it myself
@Ewbite I make these threads in order to express my opinion on an issue, and to facilitate discussion. The 'verdict' on the fiends thread is that they are fine, but (to my understanding) the verdict here is that there is something of a problem. Whether or not I need to 'learn to survive' is beside the point, unless these monsters were designed to kill the average player (i.e. not filled up with freeze resistance) after just 1 hit. If they were not, this is 'emergent behaviour', and is the whole reason for why review and balancing are crucial - to deal with issues which were not considered in the development stage. Additionally,
IMO, many decisions in SK have not been reviewed properly. Apart from arbitrary status effects:
- After removing piercing damage from sentenza, what's the point of a damage bonus on fiends for a purely shadow weapon?
- The knockback on DA/GF first swipe causes the second swipe to miss most of the time by a very small margin (the sprite of the sword often still touches the enemy, but the attack doesn't hit) - if this was by design, it is contrary to (correct me if I'm wrong) every other 5* sword in the game.
- The effect of curse is incomparable between monsters and players (hp bar of a monster does not visually decrease when it attacks, whereas I take about a third of my hp bar in damage when I attack). A lot of players say that GF is a 'pvp' weapon, but this seems to be in response to curse mechanics, rather than by design.
- Positive/negative sleep resistance still exists on some armours, so now they are weaker/stronger than first intended
- The crusader spawners at the end of Legion of Almire (though I don't have the experience to make an informed statement here)
I soloed a D3 fiend arena today, only lost my emergency revive.
(No trinkets, Shadowsun Slicker, Ancient plate mail, COA, Grand Flourish, Callahan, and LvL 100 seraphynx)
Tried to get some guildies to help, but they didn't join.
#YOLO
Anyway I learned how to deal with Greavers that have Devilite support.
"- After removing piercing damage from sentenza, what's the point of a damage bonus on fiends for a purely shadow weapon?"
Sentenza never had dmg bonus for fiends. wtf.
"- The knockback on DA/GF first swipe causes the second swipe to miss most of the time by a very small margin"
If enemy locks its aggro on you - theres no problem. Also DA/GF are AoE weapons for crowd control and nobody forbids you to attack another enemy with second attack of combo, which is point of this weapon.
"- The effect of curse is incomparable between monsters and players (hp bar of a monster does not visually decrease when it attacks, whereas I take about a third of my hp bar in damage when I attack)"
True, but it would be overpowered.
"- Positive/negative sleep resistance still exists on some armours, so now they are weaker/stronger than first intended"
True. RJ set loses with IQ one all way.
Given how restricted curse status is and how punishing a GF's charge can be, it should be overpowered at the very least.
Depends on how strong the Freeze is (pending from type of monster), and the type of shield you're using (resistance / durability)
Considering it's a type of Lumber, I believe it has the second strongest Freeze attack in the game, besides Freeze traps.
If you're playing solo, have a weak shield like the Swiftstrike Buckler, along with a Chaos set, you're set for death.
Freeze does wear off after a hit, but if it breaks your shield with a single hit, chances are that you'll be frozen again and again.
...Strong attacks come with strong consequences.