Just a heads' up if you haven't run the Legion of Almire danger mission, that picture is from an enemy in the game. Almirian Crusaders use those spears against us with a flourish-charge attack.

A 360 degree attack is a bad idea for a normal combo however. It's good for a charge attack, but 360 degrees is a huge advantage.
Also there is always an issue with "heavy" piercing swords, in that heavy swords are typically slower, and enemies weak to piercing are fast and/or dodgy. Without a proper attack combination the sword becomes fairly useless against its intended enemy.

The charging charge attack you give is a good idea. Charging into enemies and picking them up would work great. It should also have a high flinch rate. Essentially it could be a dreadnaunt attack with phantom spears increasing the overall attack radius of the charge.

Okay, not a heavy sword. As of right now, piercing swords already have a fast sword, but no heavy ones. Not sure what niche this would fill other than "not flourish".

You can still have a heavy sword with a three hit combo. The warmaster rocket hammer does that.

The 360 degree attack still wouldn't be the best idea. The third hit on a sword's combo always deals extra damage, and has the highest flinch capabilities. A 360 attack doesn't really follow that pattern, especially with no wind-up.
An alternative attack combo (that makes it differ from the flourish line) could be: first hit is a lunge forwards with a narrow damage radius, second hit the user takes a much larger step forwards and jabs the sword forwards with both hands(chance of inflicting status on second hit), third hit the user swipes the sword upwards into the air, causing a fair amount of knockback on the target and inflicting either stun or a status. This makes the spear much more of a precision weapon whereas the flourish remains a sort of "only use the first hit because it's a wide hit" sword.
Basically, the sword as stated right now is a straight upgrade to a flourish. It has a wide first attack, second is essentially the same, and the third hit does extra damage and hits everything around them. I can see a 360 degree attack working on a weapon like a whip, but on a spear, not so much, and especially not as an attack that finishes a combo.

What I'm getting at is that there's no reason for a sword like this to exist while the flourish does. Flourish has a wide hit on the first bit, then acts like the piercing-equivalent of a brandish(that is, good damage against a single enemy). Elemental swords have single target (faster) swords, and multiple targets (slower/heavy) swords. That's part of the balance in the weapon.

A fast sword with a wide range of affected area plays into a bit of the unbalanced area, for better or worse. This sword should also compliment the flourish, not overshadow it. As of right now, flourish is high speed high damage, smaller amounts of targets. If we extend those targets we need to reduce the high speed or the high damage. Lowering the speed would allow the weapon to be competitive, lowering damage makes it overall just less effective. It doesn't have to be that slow (such as the troika line), but it shouldn't be as fast as a flourish.

Basically what I'm saying is you want to create an elemental calibur to compete with the brandish without balancing the weapon so brandishes are still relevant(ignoring charge attacks). That is, Fang of Vog is a great elemental calibur, as it's designed to be heavier hitting and inflict status. Brandish (before its buff) had a competitor there. You could have the same combo, but one is slower and can inflict fire, whereas the other is faster but cannot inflict status.

I'm saying to create the Fang of Vog equivalent to the flourish instead of another flourish with a slight attack change. We already have that, and it's called the snarble barb.

why not have a slow pierce sword that does more damage and just only have two swings like the heavy swords and have it hit multiple targets. The first swing could be a wide swipe hitting multiple targets then the second dedicated lunge that pulls the player forward like the hammer but with more knock-back after the lunge and the animation can show the lunge pushing towards one target then knight pushes the spear further forward but not his body pushing the target even further away providing distance from the target and the knight (which is the difference between spears and rapiers is that one uses very close combat while the other tries to keep the distance advantage which is more mid range combat). But sense this is a devoted lunge, the knight will then be paused in one place for one second without moving then be able to move. The charge can be the knight doing one upper swing from the ground to the sky, then doing 6 to 12 continuous strikes like a cutter but not moving from his position, just striking in one place with a finisher of the knight pushing an air wave like the brandishes but in the shape of a spear straight forward through the target (This wave would look similar to the Callahan charge but smaller and spear like). This air wave will be able to go through enemies and break blocks in the way piercing right through, but will not be able to travel where there is no ground like the brandish charges. As long as we create a reason and balance it out (just like the pets), i don't see why it cannot be in the game. But you are right that it cannot copy the combo that the flourish type swords already have or it will just be another flourish.

Just for fun, I shall make spear models.

It's plain magic.

Here's the Spear.[Pic2]

--It's based on the Gran Faust so I made it more fitting for a Trojan than a Spiral Knight.

This one's based on the Leviathan Blade

I'm going to 2 more(1 with 4 variants and another with 2 variants) tomorrow.

None of the Above. I use the one and the only Blender!

It's sort of like a (Elemental) Calibur and Flourish had a child? Concerns about the similarity to the latter have already been expressed. It's a good idea, but the whole lunging/thrusting idea is overused. Also, nice art, Dahall.

@Blandaxt
Perhaps a bit more uniqueness can be added to the thrust/lunge instead of a "I'm gonna impale this spear into your stomach" cliche sort of thing. Maybe the spear could be thrusted forward, followed by several turns of the head (the spear head, not your knight's XD), damaging people who are still in front.

@Klipik-Forum
Due to my horrible internet, when I first loaded the second image (Deviantart is blocked where I am right now and I don't have a proxy >.<) I thought it was a crossbow that shoots spears.
Also, slugs.

@Klipik-Forum: i seriously thought the same thing when i thought of spears that could have multiple functions lol, but then i thought, why not make the different functions an attack that hopefully can be somewhat balanced out.

@Dahall: What i mean by unique can be small changes in design like adding a symbol or a small difference like having an extra edge in front for shock while fire has a more gritting saw like blades or ice can have a clear like blade that looks like it can melt easily in a hot summer day. something like that.

Due to slow internet, I decided to work on the models first.

[Combustor]
[Nightblade with Acheron]
[Voltedge(more like mace)]
[Crappy Venom striker twinblade bonus]

I really like em all especially the night blade, mace and venom striker. The most unique looking ones was the voltedge with a unique look that looks like it's a cannon and the venom striker that had two blades on both sides. Although i can argue that the venom striker is less spear like sense the reach is reduced because the user cannot grab the end of the spear and only the middle, It is still a very unique weapon very much like the night blade that has a scabbard in the game that is not usable and just there for aesthetic looks. I also wish the venom striker model you introduced van be it's own set of weapon like how a spear and a scythe have different uses but similar function. Anyway over all great job on these. By the way, we have some weapon in sk that have auras like the dread venom striker or the fang of vog. Can the programming tool your using to make these gear models create some sort of aura around the weapons you make?

I'd edit the post above but then it wouldn't ascend in the list.

Anyways, here's the farting version of the twinblade. Not my best work but at least it looks like it'll ward of any beast.

I was thinking of two kinds of spears that designate whether their heavy or fast.

- Lance:

The first class called lances which western knight and armor uses will be the hard heavy slow hitting spear that can do the tornado combo. (more related to the troika) Also one last functions that in another post we suggested for heavy weapons is that the user's attacks cannot be flinched unless hit by a charge attack or a large enemies attack like a trojan, lumber or boss attack like vana's smash (but not vana's fire trail attack which is not considered a heavy attack). So basically heavy weapon users like troika or this lance attacks cannot be flinched. I consider the sealed sword line and hammer weapons heavy, but because their attacks are not slow enough, they should have this ability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance

This wiki link tells you why this name fits the functions and properties of this weapon.

- Spears/javelin:

Not as long as the lance, and not as heavy but has very fast combos. This one can do the combo i mentioned with very fast swings and a wave attack.
(more related to the flourish)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear

The spear can be more related to the flourish while the javelin can be more related to the cutter series with faster pace attacks but little damage on each hit but with the ability to throw the weapon and cause massive damage.

This wiki link will tell you why this name fits the function and properties of the spear and why it should have two classes where one for thrusting and the other for throwing.

Also one last thing. Sense we are talking about spears and long arms, i was thinking if OOO could design a monster that uses a different form of pole arm weapon.

- Pike/sarrisa: (

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_(weapon)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa )

This weapon seems like a great use when you want to send a wave of monsters at the knights all wielding this weapon. The enemies would have difficulty turning, but when amassed in a group, they would be a threat to any knight in the way of their charge. also giving them a shield but that is breakable would help toughen up their defense. Also giving them a no flinching ability while charging would also be a good balanced difficulty setting. I think undead base of these types of enemies would be great, but any family that can wield a weapon like the gremlins would be good. The only problem is that these types of attacks need space and i can only think of the deconstruction zones or places like when the wheels at vana stratums that have a good amount of space where these monsters can use this type of tactical attack.

I was also thinking of adding halberds to the list of weapons sense it's spear like, but i think excluding this weapon from normal players and giving it only to npc aiding would instead fit the bill. This way the npc soldiers can some how stand out when walking around haven or helping us in the clockworks sense they have a weapon that is versatile and very usable and only they can use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd

Edit: @Dahall:
{ Dahaal, about your spear models, after doing a little bit of research, i found out that the models you have been making are more realted to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive) type of weapon called the Glaive which has a blade at the end of the pole arm instead of a pointy spike. I like the design, but i feel these designs are more related to the lance since they are suppose to be very heavy, but unlike the lance do not poke but smash through like the troika. So maybe an alternate for of them can exist for more troika like weapons in the game.

Also, i have to congratulate you on your latest creation of the twin-blade that has aura surrounding it. The aura gives it a deadly feeling as if being permeated in poison and toxic waste. It fits the poison type very much.

I was thinking of a of an aesthetic look for a lance type of spear that has a clockwork them applied to it. Something like having a clockwork gear in the middle between the lance head and the grip and when charged up, the lance head would open and an energy blade would pop out of it increasing its length lol. Kind of like this model spear (http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111215220323/busorenkin/images/9/97...) from the anime busou renkin.

*Also a different model of a spear can fit an apocrean look like this one

(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111215220651/busorenkin/images/c/c7...)

which is also from the anime busou renkin lol.

*Also one more look which could fit a rocket hammer type spear but with added boosters and nobs

(http://images.wikia.com/nanoha/images/0/08/Strada.png)

(http://images.goodsmile.info/cgm/images/product/20101109/3014/11942/larg...)

which cam from the anime Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS

And last but not least, a simple spear with good artwork taken from the manga fate stay night

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/257/3/e/gilgamesh__s_sword___fate...)

and a sword with some insignia's on it that could be modified for a good looking lance weapon taken also from fate stay night anime

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/257/3/e/gilgamesh__s_sword___fate...)

(http://www.cosplayhouse.com/images/D/Fate_Stay_Night_Props_Gilgamesh_Swo...)

tell me what you think of these designs.
}

@Dahall:

- "Keep in mind that OOO are not likely going to consider this"

why do you not think OOO will not consider it? I mean we already have a monster that has a spear mechanic attack inside the game, so why not create one for players?

- "It's best we keep this simple and just say "SPEARS!!""

Hmm, i understand that just having spears is a big step for OOO to implement, but i think giving them a big picture for them to expand upon if they wanted to would be nice. If they chose not to, that is fine too. As long as it's out there, then the option they have to expand upon increases.

- "also I don't design these spears, I just take some parts from the game and re-imagine them on the spot. "

True, i can see a lot of similarity to existing weapons, but your designs are still remodeling existing weapons and they look good. This means that OOO can see how easy for them to create these models and they wont have to create new blue prints and models.

- "Also, a theory about the knights is that they actually use powered exsokeletons to fight which explains that they can easily swing heavy swords, lift knight weighted statues and not die when they are fallen."

That is a good theory sense i don't think the actual bodies of the knights will ever be revealed, just imagined by us the players.

- "As for your suggestion to make a more variety of pole-arms, I do not think it is likely at all for lances, halberds and javelins to be even considered to be put in the game."

Well you might be right, but a lot of people doubted pets, but the developers found a way. So maybe the developers might like our idea and try to find a way for them to be implemented. As long as we can come up with a sound idea, why not have it in the game?

- "I usually don't spend more than the effort I expected to put but should it help make this suggestion more implementable, I'd gladly make more."

Thanks for being so kind and helpful and i'm sorry if you might feel i am pressuring you to make more models. If this is taking too much effort to create, please refrain from doing so. Our ideas can be written down and i'm sure if this has a chance to be implemented, the developers and graphical programmers will find a way to make some good looking models.

- "As for the items I believe to be more likely accepted; the Glaive, twinblade and pike are the closest I can match with the sword, cutter and flourish"

You might be right and if that is true i will be sad because the variety of weapons in sk feels so limited to me. If all can be implemented, i would be over joyed that i would have so much new toys to play with, but as you say even if those were the only weapons that can be implemented, then i would gladly accept anything and would still be moderately happy.

sorry dahall, i feel sense you are the only skillful graphical programmer i have run into so far in the forums, i have put too much of a burden or thrown too much information at you. sorry, and please stop if you feel any kind of stress.

@Dahall:

I agree, take as much time as you need. And i didn't know you were in such a situation that gives you a time limit on your internet use. If you time is that valuable, then it's better if you ignore sk or even this thread for that matter cause it will distract you lol. But if you can still do them, that would be sweeeeeeeeeeet. Hope to see another post from you.

@Xxpapaya: "We will have succeeded when we've managed to create a spear (or whatever new idea we come up with) that doesn't resemble any currently existing weapon in the game."

well i'm not sure that is true. the cutter series versus the 3 swing sword series like leviathan have very similar functions.

One they have 3 swings.

two they have push back on their last swing.

Three each hit consecutively from the first swing to the last inflicts more increase damage.

Four, both of them inflict normal damage.

some differences are at 5 star the dread venom striker can inflict status effect and the fact that all cutter series inflict one more hit called phantom blade after each hit in the 3 hit combo.

Another comparison is between the troika and flourish lines.

One similarity is the first swing is wide and can hit multiple targets.

Two each of their hits take out more consecutively from the beginning to the end.

Three the 5 star version of some of the flourish and the troika inflict status effects.

Four is that both weapons do push back on their last swing.

some differences is that one inflicts piercing damage while the other inflicts normal.

Two one has a slow attack speed while the other is faster.

Three the troika has a 2 swing combo while the flourish has three like most other swords.

Four the charge attack of the troika is a one move charge that smashes the ground, while the flourish has a quick 3 hit combo animation.

Five the troika is not specialized towards any enemy while the flourish is specialized for beast and fiends.

The point i am making is when you compare the differences and similarities of most weapons in the game, they will have almost and equal or more similarities then differences that is in the family. I understand if you wanted to create a new line like how we have bombs, swords and guns, but what the spear line that i envision is not a new line in itself but more of an expansion onto the flourish line. For example, if i wanted to imagine a spear pole arm like weapon that is similar to the flourish line but wanted it to do normal damage, then i would incorporate a staff weapon that has no point instead of just slapping normal damage on a spear like weapon. This weapon won't be anything crazy new to the game, but it will make sense that a staff that does not pierce but push should do that kind of damage.

@Xxpapaya: I can see this attack for more of a glaive or mace pole arm type weapon then a spear, but nice charge attack. while it is very similar to the troika charge attack, it has more rev up time sense the knight has to jump to do this attack. I propose a trip weakness where if the knight gets interrupted when attempting to jump, he trips and falls which cancels the charge. This is very similar to the old charge attack of the slug gun or callahan, but is a weakness rather then it happening every time a knight uses that charge attack.

@Blandaxt
Yes, that would balance out the invulnerability part (so that people don't go spamming it like a Nitronome)

Scrolls thru all thread.

Tries to comprehend all the creative energies flowing throughout thread.

SYSTEM ERROR! Facedesks, smashing desk. CANNOT PROCESS NO MORE. TAKE COOKIE AS AUTOMATIC COMPENSATION. (AKA, I like so many ideas here. Especially the gameplay-oriented ones. I'm bookmarking.) HAVE A NICE CHRISTMAS.