http://i.imgur.com/IEc7iCW.png
Just lol
three rings pls implement maximum energy trade offers of 10 for buy and sell.
#altabuse lol
What exactly would you be accomplishing by making it to where you can't trade more than 10 bids of energy? That just sounds really inconvenient.
I mean at a time. You can trade for 1000 energy at a time, but once you log off, someone can take up your 10 offers and there's no wall anymore. This prevents these x1000's of energy walls to be made and force the market into the way it currently is.
It'll be very difficult and/or time consuming to set up alt walls, and at the end of the day, will it really be worth it? At least make it a hastle to abuse the system and let those of us who want energy able to buy and sell while at least being active in the game. This will not affect casual buyers, and make people who play or manipulate the market have a harder time doing so... It will also keep them in-game watching the market, and thus turn their "game of making walls" much more of a game rather than something you set up and come back to the next day to see what progress you've made.
I mean at a time. You can trade for 1000 energy at a time, but once you log off, someone can take up your 10 offers and there's no wall anymore. This prevents these x1000's of energy walls to be made and force the market into the way it currently is.
This doesn't make a lick of sense to me. So you can put up a 1000x wall, but once 10 of those offers go through while you're offline, the wall vanishes?
Why wouldn't people just stick a rock on their keyboard so they never log out? Not that it matters anyway, the issue isn't walls, the issue is people stacking towers of buy offers in an attempt to cause rapid inflation.
But what is a wall hurting exactly? It isn't like it would stop their demand for energy or crowns, it would just.. make them frustrated as they sat there trying to use the market and it gave them a message, or it would force them to use alts like Hexzyle was saying. Alternatively it would force them to push the 'buy now!' button like 10 million times, widening the gap between the offers.
Nah, the offers stay up. However, this means you cannot stack the offers on both sides with 100's per offer. You would, at most, put up 10 offers per side(20 total).
When those offers go through or you take them off, you can put more up again. This makes the game of setting up energy walls much more lucrative and annoying. Adding a 7-14 day expiration timer on the offers makes it even more annoying for players who want to set up a stack of walls with their alts, as to make the walls they need to have many, many alt accounts that they must manually sift through to make their wall again. If they use macros, they risk having their alt and all of its accumulated wealth deleted.
This doesn't limit you if you're actively in Spiral Knights. You can keep trying to set up a wall with one character, but it'll be hard to sustain your wall if demand hits you.
Bottom line, this sort of method allows players who want energy legitimately to be able to set up offers, and those who are seeking to manipulate the market have a very tough time working it out.
However, this means you cannot stack the offers on both sides with 100's per offer. You would, at most, put up 10 offers per side(20 total).
Um, you just said two different things. Does the restriction apply to quantity on a single offer (wall restriction), number of offers with different crown values (stack restriction), or total number of 100 energy bundles that you are able to submit offers for? (quantity restriction)
Might be kinda odd in my wordings huh. The 1000's I was referring to was in terms of energy, ie 10x100. 100's I'm talking about are different stacks of just the offers (1x100). 10's is the actual offer (1x100). Sorry for strange wording.
In my wording in the quoted text, I'm saying you can't make a wall of 100s of listings for one price, such as what the original post had linked.
10 offers per side, meaning 10 buy offers, 10 sell offers. You cannot have 5 buy offers and 15 sell offers, however you can have 5 buy offers and 9 sell offers.
This is overall offers. You can have 10 offers with different prices, but only have a total of 10 offers per side. You can have x5 buy offers for 8599, and x5 for 8600, but not x102 offers for 8599, x102 offers for 8600, and x102 offers for 8601. Similar on the sell side.
Hopefully that makes more sense.
I really need to avoid my foruming habits as the night goes on.
Ok ok but how do you want energy "illegitimately" and why does that hurt something?
Not quite sure what you're asking.
Making a maximum to how many buy/sell offers you can put down turns the energy market into a game rather than a rich-choose-the-prices sort of thing.
When prices are clearly behind a wall, it's not a free market, it's a monopoly. When prices are in smaller bunches and more varied, it feels more like a free market.
I know I avoid the energy market right now because know I just one 100 or 200 energy at a time, and I'm discouraged from buying on the market because it's not a market run by the players, it's a shop run by a player.
Having a limit makes playing the energy market its own game, similar to how the auction house and its functions are its own game. Not having giant walls makes the market feel more like a market, and lets us "play into it", rather than feeling like we're buying from some vendor at three times the cost.
Now don't get me wrong, the prices aren't what put me off. It's the giant walls that put me off, and they're a big load of not fun. Instead of having the market be unfun to casual or needing players, have it be more involved to abuse it, and thus more unfun to players who are trying to make a profit off not playing the game(or if you're into that sort of thing, this will make the process more involved, and you will sort of deserve whatever profit you manage to make in a week's time).
Could make it so you can't do more than 10 per computer. That way the only way to abuse this would be to have multiple PCs.
I'm only requesting 10 per knight. You might have a legitimate alt who needs energy, and as far as I know Three Rings can't track you outside of your account (easily). As an extreme you could have 10 per account (i.e., 3 knights), as they all share the same energy pool, but if you're so inclined to make walls of energy, it shouldn't be impossible, just take a lot more time to achieve and at the end of the day, if you don't make any profit, you've wasted your time.
The best way to stop abuse of a system is to make it more convenient to use it correctly, and make it much more inconvenient to abuse the system.
Someone trying to make ce more expensive for everyone: http://i.imgur.com/UpB5Lga.png
or we could just remove anonymity from market trades that exceed 10k energy (x100) or whatever number can be agreed upon by a community
OOO's already stated they won't directly influence the market but that doesn't exactly mean they can't give us the ability to sort it ourselves, i really don't care about the anonymity aspect of it anyway - if i'm going to be trading energy in bulk like that i'd rather just get it done than be worried about people knowing i made a trade, oh no
How about OOO just doesn't allow energy to be sold and bought at the same time? The only situation where a person would be selling energy while trying to buy some is if they are merching off the market. There could also be a timer that prevents sell offers from being put up within 60 seconds after one is taken down.
Or we can take away the whole system.
If the energy exchange is removed, I anticipate more people advertising to sell energy in haven. F2P players will have to work harder finding someone who is willing to sell for reasonable prices. There is also a greater risk of being scammed. However, merchants now have to accept trade offers to make money. This makes their time more valuable and competition would be more fierce.
OOO will lose the crown sink from the 2% tax, but that's relatively pitiful amount anyways.
I'm gonna get popcorn for in case OOO tries to do another round of AH sales to make ce below 8kcr again and to kill these walls.
I mean, it did work last time it happened.
Jeez, I wish Energy was under 8K, so what a lot of other people too probably
@Fangel
I still don't get how it's unfun for you. We're talking about a button that you press to turn crowns to energy and vice versa... not Disney Land. What exactly do you want about the energy depot to be fun and exciting?
This idea that fangel made has been made in the past over and over again but it never became true till now. I really hope that OOO does do something against These walls. And by that I do not mean Flash sales since this is only a temporary *help* - but it is no *solution* at all.
@Retequizzle:
Anonymity or not doesn't Change anything here since aplayer can simply use an alt for his walls.
@Fangel:
I understood you pretty well in your first Explanation. Either I am as asleep as you or your wording isn't the problem.
@Deleted:
Taking away the System is no good idea since the actual one is very convinient and exspecially new Players who might be shy wouldnt just start by shouting in haven to advertise any offers. This System doesnt Need to get deleted, it Needs to get changed.
@Fehzor:
He actually talks about having *no fun* instead of having fun. It is like paying for the rent you live on and then the one who rents it just doubles the renting cost. This is what makes definitely *no fun* for you, too: No one likes to pay more than necessary for a Thing they desperately Need.
Having the Price lowered will no actually start to be *fun* suddenly - it will simply lower the Anger you feel by paying for it.
http://i.imgur.com/HhElcbf.png
Wonder if OOO's gonna fix this. It's x2725 now.
I had a bit of a rant and rave on a topic similar to this on my personal blog. In which I wonder if OOO would ever listen to the players' suggestions if it involved a few things... Bundling prize boxes with CE again, so that even though "the rich get richer", at least there is more energy being introduced into the market; and featured auction flash sales weekly or bi-weekly, so that players can better speculate on the fluctuation of the market and coerce players into converting CE into cr at the same time. Why have a featured auction section if it isn't being put to use properly?
I'm saying turn the market into a game you actively have to participate in, not one you set a bunch of offers up for and then log off for a week, leaving thousands of offers up.
This keeps you in the game, which Three Rings wants, and keeps the market more alive, which the players want. The only person who is hurt by this are players trying to manipulate the market for a small amount of profit, which are typically not playing the game, which neither Three Rings or the players want.
So as of right now, players who are manipulating the market are making the rest of us have "no fun" in the energy market (and maybe even in the game as well, as newer players will complain about orbs and refuse to buy energy because of the prices). Making a change such as the one I suggest does not affect the common player negatively, and instead makes the market more bearable.
Making the market a game doesn't make it "fun", but since it's a game, it has rules, and those rules prevent it from being "no fun".
Thanks for those words there, Jenovas.
Anonymity or not doesn't Change anything here since aplayer can simply use an alt for his walls.
and it simultaneously makes it simple enough to excise a player out from the market for being a bloody twat with the market; people will either run out of alts or run out of patience
lol the wall is still there: http://i.imgur.com/QflcfLa.png
Now it's over x3000..
Wouldn't eliminating price walls cause more fluctuation in market prices and make the market easier to influence (and abuse) than the system we have right now? Isn't there a good chance prices may rise due to a 'fix' like this? The links here show walls on both sides of the market - some trying to force energy up, some trying to force energy down.
Pretty sure it crashes to 8200 after the 8600 and a few offers below it. 8200 was the average buy offer in the first half of summer.
Wouldn't eliminating price walls cause more fluctuation in market prices and make the market easier to influence (and abuse) than the system we have right now?
Yep. But the profiteering wouldn't be just the one person, like is the case with a wall. Without coordination, players would not be able to control the market reliably, so they would be just as likely to lose money than they would be to gain it.
25 million crowns. That is some grade 'A' for Austin Powers nonsense right there.
Wouldn't eliminating price walls cause more fluctuation in market prices and make the market easier to influence (and abuse) than the system we have right now?
It turns the market into a market, not a store. Prices may change, and you can try to bet on getting a good price now instead of coming back two days later and have the prices not move an inch. Prices fluctuating is a sign that the market is moving, which is the point of my suggestion. When the prices are moving, players are more likely to play into the market because "I can get it now before the prices rise", or "dangit, the prices went down 100 crowns. I'll wait for that to happen again" will be a driving factor. A market that's not moving isn't interesting or a market, it's a monopoly and a store.
In any case, it looks like the guy is trying to raise the price of ce and buy out the whole market.
Edit: We did it sk! almost 9kcr for 100e. It's now officially a store of walls that raised ce.
http://i.imgur.com/vZnQbCl.png
Edit 2: Guy got pissed, so he raised the wall another 100cr
I guess from now on the only time I'll ever buy CE is to get sprite Evo catalysts.....
can we do a full community ce market block? literally all agree on a solid non changing price that would stay like that? why not just get the buy price at 8400 and sell price at 8600 and call it a day till OOO changes some part of the game that blocks the farming. if the top guilds agreed on a solid non changing price it could be possible. after all it would benefit us all
http://i.imgur.com/9ugudAz.png
LEL OOO waited too long to do a sale because I mentioned one.
Now CE's at record prices at over 9200cr. :)
It's been at 9000 before. I remember when I first joined years ago when it was 6000 and it slowly climbed so that people were complaining that they could no longer run FSC and immediately get 100 ce for that.
three rings pls implement maximum energy trade offers of 10 for buy and sell.
pls