Areas - We have settled on "sleek"

12 replies [Last post]
Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking

As part of the Mission overhaul several of us are working hard on, I've found that we can use some of the mission mentality on areas. Many of the area pages are out of date and grossly disorganized. Of course, these areas have been available for quite some time, many long before missions were introduced. We should keep this chronology clear as often as possible.

These are important pages (especially based on the number of hits) and some of the most used by exploring players, not just because they've been around for a while accumulating visits. I feel that the most important information on them is the monster spawn, but this also clutters the article. The way these pages are compressed is both good and bad. It's messy looking for many of the pages, but it also gets the idea across that "okay, blast furnace is just tunnels with fire monsters."

We seek to better organize the information on these pages, while maintaining education about what the icon colors and shapes indicate, and that everything is mushed together while also being predictable (monster spawns can replace each other etc). Several areas are extremely complex, most notably, compounds. Others are rather simple. Oh, and adding soundtrack data would be welcome information for many users.

I've developed a subpage system that can be used to either link the Area ("areas" are "Wolver Den", "Lichenous Lair", etc.) as plugged into the article, or simply be redirects. We use the plug system frequently, most notably with Alchemy Paths, and more recently with Artifacts.

For example, "Devilish Drudgery: Everybody's Fired" would redirect to Devilish Drudgery#Everybody's Fired, if we were to make a page for it. Which we should, for category purposes, but...uh...there's hundreds of accessories that don't register, oh well. Not that important. On the other hand, complicated areas such as "Frozen Compound: Creeping Colony" would have content on the page that can be plugged in or linked to as desired. Redirecting or plugging could be determined by the complexity of the area as well as functionality of the article - but I'd like it to be consistent. So I'd settle for the simplest, cleanest looking format that's also easy to update and easy for users to read. A "mother page" explaining what to expect in general, linking to "subpages" which are actually true pages that have a lot more data. Conveniently, these also show up for searches.

===============================================================================================
EDIT: We have settled on "sleek."
===============================================================================================

Some potential format options to consider:

Examples of "mother page" format so far for a simple area, such as Scarlet Fortress:
Current format that could use improvement
Sleek
Plugged

Examples of "mother page" format so far for a complicated area, such as Compound:
Current format that could use improvement
Sleek
Plugged (EDIT: made true "plug" format, previous format, let's call it linkedtoplugs)
*Please note that the compound data is limited, there are only two created subpages at the moment, for "Frozen Compound: Creeping Colony" and "Frozen Compound: Ravenous Warrens" to get the idea across. The spawn data for these subpages is also incomplete.

Bear in mind this is another project for down the road, we just ran into it while doing mission pages. It takes higher priority than the monster overhaul because a lot of the information is out of date/incorrect, similar to how materials were "wrong" for years.

===============================================================================================
ProCons

Entire project:
-Pros: areas will be much better documented and more likely to show up when users search for specifics. Areas can be directly linked to for discussion purposes or personal favorites and many other miscellaneous factors. Editing and updating is more easily managed.
-Cons: work work work work WORK WORK and then the game updates D:

Sleek:
-Pros: A simple article that joins together subpages in a neat and tidy format. Information focuses on general factors such as what to expect and provides important information about the area itself, minus all the distracting information of its composition. This "distracting" information is of course readily available, just a click away in the infobox. It's essentially like wanting to know what a "dictionary" is and the history of the dictionary, without all the dictionary's definitions. It's also aesthetically different enough from the Mission page format so users are less likely to be confused by "Shadow of the Beast" vs. "Gloaming Wildwoods." I mean, besides the giant pictures :P
-Cons: Users might have trouble clicking on the small links, when that's where they wanted to go in the first place (might be resolved by clicking the right search result). Areas must be compared by popping open tabs.

Plugged:
-Pros: everything visible on a single page! Just scroll or use the ToC to find what you're looking for.
-Cons: very crowded looking, long load time depending on content, ToC is difficult to click.

Linkedtoplugs: everything's a little bigger and easier to click.

===============================================================================================
Votes:

Sleek: 2 ,1 (but only because there can be only one highlander)

Plugged:

Linktoplugs:

===============================================================================================
TL;DR: Vote for Sleek, Plugged, Linkedtoplugs, or come up with a better format, or just say "who cares, just fix the information that's there to be correct." This won't be done for a long time, we are doing missions and acquisition first.

Falminar's picture
Falminar
Sleek for Simple, Plugged for Compicated

I like plugged/talk best for the Compounds page, and sleek/sandbox for the Scarlet Fortress page.

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
~Woops~

I've updated the format on compound's talk page to actually be "plugged" format, and linked to the previous page build to call it "linkedtoplugs," which is distinctly different from "plugged," and currently has only one link for "Frozen Compound: Creeping Colony." I can see why users might like this option, though my vote goes to "sleek" for all pages. For the sake of consistency, we really should develop one format to use for them all.

Altmetal's picture
Altmetal
Methinks the sleek would be

Methinks the sleek would be better for the most part.

Falminar's picture
Falminar
Well, if there has to be only 1 format -

Sleek.

Jade-Hikaru's picture
Jade-Hikaru
Why not both?

I like Sleek alot BUT what about Plugged and Sleek mix up? The format would have the infobox of Sleek with the levels as Plugged (in show/hide tables). This way users can see the page and the tables/levels would load within even when u will not need to see them. (I have slow internet and this would be better because everything load when i click the page, no need to click and open other pages)

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
Wells

Option: "Showhide plugs" with minor variations:

Could do something like this , but it does not look good for areas which have galleries. If we make the showhides take up the whole screen, then it's annoying for users who have large screens to move their mouse all the way over to the tiny show/hide to expose the content. This is resolved by "dealing with it" or adjusting the browser window on the monitor, and isn't much of a bother for smaller screens.

here it is full width , we'd have to use 100% for areas such as scarlet fortress or jiggsaw valley etc. to look right. Should probably take out linking to the plug in the showhide to reduce navigation confusion...I only put it there to make it easier for editors to edit the content, but we'd just use the "what links here" tools to get around that - but people might like it, thoughts?

If we do showhides, I'll make the floor templates have the monster stuff uncollapsed by default, because when we have showhide recursion things can get a little annoying.

here it is without links in the showhide titles.

Of course, we'd use proper icons for all other areas, not raw backgrounds - compounds are just weird.

Please keep in mind that many of the "mother" pages will have sortable lists of map segments + visuals of those map segments sometime in the future, similar to this , which = a potentially significant load time.

Jade-Hikaru's picture
Jade-Hikaru
Compound_2 is my vote

Well as a user with slow internet but large screen i was thinking in the fact that it would take all the screen. Compound_2 seems better for me (large screen-slowinternet), with my cellphone which doesnt have a large screen, it seems good too, even when i have to zoomout a bit i can read and see it properly.

I was thinking if there is a way to make Show/hide bar shorter but when click "show" open without limit. This way we, large screen's user, dont need to have the bar filling all the page and the table inside adjust to user's screen

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
>.<

I shouldn't have posted compound 2 - it was an example of what not to do, but we could do something like it. We can't use that format because of the width issue. Yes, we could make the floor template pop out to full width even with smaller showhides, but that feels very unprofessional/unplanned to have things pop out that way.

I am liking Compound 3 the best so far.

If only we had an AJAX loader, like the the terraria wiki...

Jade-Hikaru's picture
Jade-Hikaru
Aw

Aw compound2 was my fav so far. Then Sleek seems like the best option, but Compound 3 then would be my fav, i been getting used to the fact that most of the table and/or show/hide doesnt look that good in large screen, but i have to admit that in small screens like cellphone it is better

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
:O

We'll probably go with sleek then. In the future-after-missions-and-acquisition.

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
It has been slept upon

Just been touching up on standby ideas. Believe me, they are not forgotten - this is just another major project that will get attention soon that needed sleeping upon, and has lower priority than other projects. Especially acquisition! SQUEE!

Looking at all these format options now (much later), I find that I vastly prefer "sleek," or Sandbox/Compound and Sandbox/Scarlet Fortress. These provide the player with immediate information about the level set without the distractions of level specifics while still offering very easy access to that data, and leaves us with the most format options in the future - there's room for our map project lists for pages they apply to (randomized chunks such as compounds/tunnels etc. only) and they won't cause visual clutter with the level specifics. Specifics being detailed data about monster species and exploration spawn. Overviews of this information are immediately available in the infobox.

Yes, for the compound level list, many are unfinished, and when this project gets focus, these things will take up the most editing time I think. There are a couple examples there, emphasizing the complexity of Compound populations. The Scarlet Fortress level list is finished except for the minor exploration bits, with all the data you could ever dream of. Maybe even more if we want to finish that box count data, which I think would be a useful endeavor, appreciated by those who like to wait for gates/enjoy data. Since elevators are free, box number is not as huge a factor as it was in the past, but we do have those rarities and player time to consider. Someone might want to AFK getting something done while waiting for the best level with the most boxes, idk. DaN and FSC get boring but time is still valuable. It's fun data anyway.

Something to consider: I'd like to free up the word "area" for general use. There are some issues with the terminology - Amu-Sol is both a level and an area according to Heart of Ice lore, for example, but it's certainly not... a level set. I am thinking we make a category for "Geographical Phenomenon" (or a better term we come up with) instead of Category:Areas for level sets such as "Wolver Den," "Lichenous Lair," and so on. Yes, Category:Levels can stay as it is, as long as we maintain the category parameters. Geographical Phenomenon would be isolated to appropriate "worlds," a category previously deleted and areas. The term should encompass the idea that Cradle is a mashup of different worlds as well as areas (some places are not worlds, such as many Gremlin areas that are part of the Clockworks machine), and elevators allow us to visit tiny parts of these worlds/chunksofworlds/machinery as they rotate within Cradle. We'd end up with three major geography-related categories (there are other categories besides these three, of course): Areas, "GP", and Levels, that are nested under generalized Category:Geography. "Areas" would include places we may or may not have more or less access to such as Almire, Underworld, Amu-Sol, and so on. We definitely need to work on keeping missions vs. geography clear and organized, something I've been working on with the Mission project with careful wording - see the notes section of the Mission: Shadow of the Beast. For anyone curious, staff says this issue is up to us.

EDIT: fixed nesting categories.

Dracora-Speaking's picture
Dracora-Speaking
A wild thread appeared!

I have created a new thread to specifically discuss "area" vs. "world" vs. "other term" here.