Spiral Knights - CIV Vs. Leviathan

CIV Vs. Leviathan

22 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:46

Evilholyguy

Legacy Username

Simple question, why would you pick the Leviathan over the CIV? I see a lot of people recommending the Lev for certain set ups and what not, but I hardly see CIV mentioned. I'm nowhere near making either of them, but I have a tempered now, and I'm deciding which upgrade I should go for, so I was wondering if there's any reason to take Lev over CIV. It just seems to me that the CIV is only marginally weaker against non-undeads, while it would pull ahead of the Lev on undeads (which, from what I've heard is the main type found in the citadel.)

Thanks in advance.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:56

fredman86

Legacy Username

This post crops up from time

This post crops up from time to time. In fact, your wording is so similar to a previous question asked on this that I thought it was deja vu :P

Anyway, if you want a bit more thorough of a response than mine, perhaps one with numbers to back up the point, you should run a search.

The basic point, though, is that the bars lie, being as they seem to display the two swords at roughly the same power.
The leviathan has more base damage than the CIV.
It does indeed do more damage vs. undead than the Levi, but only slightly and at the cost of a weaker output against every other monster.

Not many people find this to be a worthwhile trade, and the Levi is generally selected.
For undead, people generally prefer a weapon with Elemental. The impact of a damage type vulnerability is more than the boost CIV gets.
Divine Avenger is often selected as the weapon of choice for firestorm citadel's array of construct and undead.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:06

Evilholyguy

Legacy Username

Alrighty then, thank you. I

Alrighty then, thank you.

I have kind of noticed how much the bars lie however... and I've hardly hit 3* equipment. The bar system is a nice change of pace from the usual "wall of text" style weapon tooltips most games use, but its a lot less informative... oh well. Looks like I'm working on Levi then, for now anyhow. DA will come a bit further down the road lol.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:39

culture

Legacy Username

The wiki even has most of the

The wiki even has most of the damage tables filled for both weapons, so you can decide for yourself if the damage nerf vs everything else is worth an extra bit for undead.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Leviathan_Blade
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Cold_Iron_Vanquisher

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 21:18

ReaveR13

Legacy Username

Levi for damage CIV for style

Levi for damage

CIV for style points

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 21:37

OptimusPunk

Legacy Username

Lol style points. I wish I

Lol style points.

I wish I was a little more serious with stats on my equipment choices early in the game. When I first started playing, I just picked out what I thought looked really cool, so I decided to go with CIV path, and I only started getting into game mechanics until after I created my CIC. :\

Now that I'm reading this I'm thinking, "Darn, I wish I was a little smarter about this."

Oh well, At least I'll still have a cool looking sword.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 21:39

OptimusPunk

Legacy Username

Ooops!

Sorry, I some how double posted. How did that even?...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 22:41

viper901

Legacy Username

Don't worry Optimus, now you

Don't worry Optimus, now you have style, and people have beaten the game with CIV just as well as Levi.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:21

Bigfootm

I say CIV.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 00:23

Tersakoff

Legacy Username

So basically everybody is

So basically everybody is spazzing out over little damage.
Yeah it does show more at Lumbers and such but.. it's not a difference of 4-5 extra hits, so unless you're rageattacking there, you can compensate for it. :/ Yes, you have to work harder with the CIV. But I love mine.
Whenever someone asks me Levi or CIV I tell them: "Levi if you're lazy, CIV if you aren't."
They don't get it.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 02:41

#10

Silent-Echoes

Leviathan is better if you're

Leviathan is better if you're using one general purpose weapon, where as the Cold Iron Vanquisher is arguably better if you're using several specialized weapons. People always bring up the Lumber argument, but given how easy they are to kite and especially to gun it's essentially a non-factor; the real reason you'd want a Levi over a CIV is for gremlins and mecha-knights, for everything else you'd take a sword with some sort of type advantage unless you're only carrying one sword. More importantly however whilst the Levi is unarguably better at crowd control, it's also horrifying disruptive when you're in a group. I can't even count the number of times I've seen players die due to someone knocking an attacking lumber or lichen colony into them with a charge from the AC/Levi and especially in tier 3 that's often disastrous. Besides all of that quite like the Argent Peacemaker, the CIV is extremely useful in FSC despite perhaps being outclassed in other stratums and given that FSC is currently the only end game in Spiral Knights, that alone justifies its worth.

tl;dr go with the levi if you're soloing and/or using only one sword, the CIV if you're using a variety of gear and want style points.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 03:06

#11

z4t01

Legacy Username

dude almost every map has

dude almost every map has something that the CIV is strong against.

if you're only using one sword - use leviathan.

i use CIV and GF. both ends of the spectrum completely covered.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 21:23

#12

Lazypinoy

I have a CIV.

Honestly, I think CIV is better if you have Barb Shield + Full Skolver and Attack Speed Increased UV or CTR. With that you'll maybe hit just as high as a Levi and definitely a lot higher than a Levi in FSC. The sword's knockback is good enough so you can hit an enemy 2 or 3 times with the charge attack, plus you won't be team killing anybody either. Levi is a good sword.. but only if you plan on just having 1 sword, and if you solo a lot. CIV is better if you have lots of weapons for different situations.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:22

#13

culture

Legacy Username

@GodisPie

Barb Shield + Full Skolver would be wasted on a CIV. That setup gives you Max (6 points) sword damage, but the CIV already has High (3 points) on undead. Since sword damage is capped at max, those three points are wasted.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:46

#14

Lazypinoy

@culture

Ahh right. I forgot your UV doesn't get stacked with Max Damage bonus... BUT, I'm sure nobody gives a rat's hat about "three points" when you're hitting high on everything anyways. But if you do care, then how about I say that CIV is better than Leviathan if you're wearing Full Vog + Barb Shield and if you plan on having multiple weapons for different occasions and stratas. Is that better sir? Can I go back to eating my Frosted Flakes?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:36

#15

spaghetiman

Legacy Username

any elemental weapon will do

any elemental weapon will do the job better than the CIV will so it's pointless to get one if you're specializing. the only purpose behind either is if you aren't specializing swords, and the levi does that better.

~Spag

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 16:45

#16

Mohandar

Charge attack

The CIV isn't terribly inferior to the Leviathan in damage, but the effectiveness of the charge attack is the real killer. CIV has relatively weak knockback on the spin, which means you can't count on it to get you out of a crowd. The Leviathan, on the other hand, can send Lumbers flying straight across a room (to the detriment of your teammates if you're not careful). However, this massive knockback means you can give yourself room to maneuver, especially when combined with a good CTR UV so you can charge quickly.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 21:18

#17

Marqui

Well, most people go for the

Well, most people go for the Levi as it does have more damage, however last time I checked, the difference in damage was really insignificant (17 damage if memory serves). From what I've seen of the two, they both kill mobs in the same number of hits, and if not, It's only one extra blow needed.

I think the problem about the CIV is that it isn't as strong as the Levi, but tries to make up for it in specializing in undead mobs, but is beaten out by the Avenger series there too.

I decided to go with the CIV, mostly because of style and the minor damage difference, and because that's what all the cool kids do, but I use multiple swords, so it doesn't impact me as much as it may or may not affect you.

Wed, 08/03/2011 - 00:54

#18

Bluehelmet

Well...

Im running:

Levi
DA
Faust (since the damage difference is marginal in T2, i.e. only using for RJ runes)
Argent

with full vog and a owlite.

The extra kb on the charge for the levi is what makes the levi desirable, its great for kiting and great for crowd control. The DA is superior to the CIV imo due to its ability to crowd control with both its charge and normal attacks (hitting up to 4 lava slags in FSC per swing). With the 2nd hit delay exploit, the swings are made worthwhile.

CTR on levi is godly, planning to get a vh ctr calibur soon. Anyway, especially if ur soloing, levis the way to go. CIV is more for style since even its specialization is ouclassed, by the DA. Only reason to run CIV is if ur unable to adapt to 2 hit swords. Then it makes the CIV a viable option for FSC

Wed, 08/03/2011 - 04:13

#19

z4t01

Legacy Username

im pretty sure my CIV

im pretty sure my CIV outdamages my DA with full vog + swiftstrike... so yea... the attack pattern on calibur line is just baller for single enemies. the DA is too slow to use all the time - you have to sacrifice time herding monsters together to get the most out of it.

the CIV's charge attack is far easier to manipulate and as such you end up being able to apply it in more situations as well.

but yeah.. fsc = CIV.

Wed, 08/03/2011 - 05:52

#20

Bluehelmet

Nope :D

Not sure about u, but for fsc, especially on certain room in Charred Court and Ashen Armory, u may be vsing 10 + slag walkers at once. The charge on the DA is perfect for crowd control in narrow spaces (ur CIV charge will not have much knowckback and literally no crowd control), and the knockback from the DA allows lots of breathing room, just know ur vulnerable after the 2nd hit on the DA. Im not sure about the manipulation of the CIV, but the for FSC the DA is superior. I'm comparing the DA to the CIV 1 : 1 and not with any combination of weapons. Also, the CIV doesnt out damage the DA if u take into account how many slag walkers u can hit per swing. Also, the fact that most spawn formation in FSC are groups, its not needed to herd them. Its easier to clear FSC with a DA, then to with a CIV. Buts its rly preferance. If u cant run a 2-swing sword, u cant run a 2-swing sword. Just a matter of skill. If there were more instances of mass amounts of undead monsters, than civ may be an option, but atm, theres rly only graveyards and FSC. Oh, and though CIV is more versatile normally, DA has its attribute advantage against constructs too.

Overall, DA > CIV IMO.

Note that I run a 3 swing sword (Levi, for general use) anyway for balanced play.

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 14:51

#21

Extred

If you have Skolver Set+Barbarous Thorn Shield or 2 Elite Slash Module+Barbarous Thorn Shield, it will render the high to undead on the CIV useless since you are MAX to everything.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 02:03

#22

Zeph_Ng

Legacy Username

Having both the Levi and CIV

Having both the Levi and CIV myself, I feel that the CIV is a better team sword due to the lack of the extreme knockback the Levi has.

Overall, if I know I'm going up against swarms of enemies, I'd pick the CIV over the Levi, as part of my setup includes either the Electron or Graviton Vortex, and the weaker knockback of the CIV keeps the enemies in the vortex allowing 2-3 hits to register with the CIV VS the 1 hit and bye bye enemy situation that the Levi places me in (85% of Levi's damage, so I deal 170-255% of Levi's charge attack damage).

That said, if I wanna keep enemies really far away, I'd bring the Levi along.

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CIV Vs. Leviathan