Heavy Sword tips and techniques!
Sa, 06/25/2011 - 17:38
Hello.
I've used solely heavy swords for a while now and thought I'd go spread some tricks that I came across along the way. Some of these are probably familiar for people who've used them for a while, but some (like the triple slash!) I've just found personally, and I'm loving it :D
Some things can be confusing, so here's a quick vocab list:
Slash1 : Your first slash (quicker, low knockback)
Slash2 : Your "second slash" (spins around, high knockback/range, has greater range than slash1.
Shield-cancel : Some animations can be interrupted - you can usually find these frames by holding shield. Cancel animation with shield --> shield-cancel.
- Tactics
Use your range! - You can slash about 1.25-1.5 blocks ahead of you (depending on whether you're using slash 1 or slash 2)! Use it to your advantage, especially if you're using the Troika line, which is slow and easy to interrupt (if you get hit). Now, what makes heavy swords any good in terms of DPS (damage per second) is their wide swing - If you want to make the best of your weapon, learn to shield push enemies together and slash them at the same time!
Use your second slash wisely! - Your slash2 is pretty good (wide range around you, high knockback), but it's also really vulnerable. You can use your slash2 to interrupt some monsters' attacks if you time it correctly - hitting a gunpuppy during its charge-up period will stop it from attacking. You can save yourself and your teammates health by using it carefully! At the same time, if you miss, its ending lag is very long and keeps you vulnerable.
- Tricks
Shield-cancelling animations - If you hold shield during your slash1, you can cancel part of the end of the slash animation. This is really useful for when you're trying to get a slash in while moving, or if you're surrounded by things. For example, you can slash1-tap shield - walk - repeat.
Delayed 2nd slash A - If you hold [attack] after slash1, you can go straight into your slash2 just by releasing [attack]. It's similar to shield-cancelling in that it cancels some of your ending lag, except it puts you into your charge animation.
Delayed 2nd slash B (Moving) - During the charge period, you can walk about 1-1.5 squares worth of space before releasing. This is nice for chasing something you hit with the tip of your sword, or retreating so you can counter attack a second row of enemies. Note that you can walk faster while charging than you can while shielding, so it can be pretty useful. One situation you might want to do this in is if a Kat is in front of you - you can slash it as it flies across you, turn around (taking a step towards it) and go into slash2, interrupting it from doing whatever attack it was trying to do. In most cases, you wouldn't be able to reach it with just a regular slash1-slash2 combo.
A fun trick you can do is spin around during the charge, so it looks like you do a 720 before slashing :D
Triple first-slash combo - [Slash1]-[tap shield to cancel the animation]-[Hold slash]-[release].
This is kind of a more optimized version of the shield-cancel slash. It puts together the shield-cancelled slash and the "delayed 2nd slash" tricks. I'm not sure of the mechanic exactly, but for some reason, instead of a slash2 coming out of the delayed attack, it out as a slash1 instead. It's really nice for killing mineral crystals, and also super-safe while strafing around lumbers, since you can shield cancel any of the slashes (where doing a full 2nd-hit will put you in extreme ending lag). Just be careful because the first slash doesn't have the power to stop / interrupt all enemy attacks.
Charging without slashing - Hold [shield]. While shielding, hold [attack]. When you release shield, you will start charging. If you don't start charging immediately, just tap shield again. This is nice because you don't waste time doing a slash and you can move (while shielding). Very, very useful.
---------
Specific sword trips/tricks!
Troika Line
- Learn the range of the charge attack! In Spiral Court, for example, you can hit Kats across the gap ;D
Sealed Sword line
- Avenger/Faust: You can cancel the charge attack very early after releasing by holding shield or even slashing. If you cancel it with shield, you can even run right behind your projectiles!
- Faust Line: The slash2 from the Faust line has a chance of cursing enemies. You don't need to use charge attack to curse things.
---
is this even useful? XD
Sa, 06/25/2011 - 20:29
#2
Good Guide!
This guide absolutely useful as I'm having trouble with my new Gran Faust. Sometimes, I even felt that my levia is actually better than my GF. Thanks a lot I think I'll practise using my GF now =D
Sa, 06/25/2011 - 20:53
#3
What I find useful is to
What I find useful is to "waste" the first attack on air, and then WHUMP with the second attack on the actual monsters. You can do it either by aiming the first swing in the wrong direction, or timing their approach.
The second attack knocks everything back a long ways, where the first only seldomly knocked them back a little.
So, 06/26/2011 - 20:57
#4
Just wanted to mention that
Just wanted to mention that this thread literally made me a better player overnight, and I haven't even tried the three-slash trick yet. Highly recommended for anyone not afraid to use the big weapons out there.
Another thing that's good to remember is that in this game, you're not stuck attacking facing one direction. You can move your mouse in any direction and you'll attack that direction; you're not stuck finishing your combo facing a direction that an enemy is no longer in. Sometimes particularly sneaky monsters will attempt to attack from behind while you're in your first attack animation (likely applying some hurt to one of their cohorts), but with this knowledge, it's not as bad of a problem. After your first attack, you can either shield cancel out of it and give them a nice face full of pain (probably best if the monster in front of you is attacking), or whip around before your second attack and hit them that way. If you're holding Faust, you might just punish them for their cowardice with a curse as well, which in my experience is all but a death sentence, especially on skill-abusing critters like wolvers or gremlins. If they're a little further out than the range on your hurtstick of choice, use the delayed slash trick and walk to them to close the distance a bit, then just release your attack button and watch the victim get punted away.
So, 06/26/2011 - 22:03
#5
You forgot,
AS dumb as this may seem, there is a SLIGHT invincibility frame between the spin-around of the 2nd attack, this comes in handy when facing Jellies that are attacking with THEIR spin attack. If you manage to time it correctly, you will take no damage whatsoever and continue to beat the living daylights out of the monster(s). Also never charge a (Gran) Faust because of it's dumb chance of cursing self, unless it's lvl 10, your feeling lucky, OR you have 3+ weapons. That being said 2 swing weapons are great for murdering nearly everything.
Fr, 07/01/2011 - 13:51
#6
Shield-Cancelling Animation -
Shield-Cancelling Animation - I can't always get this to work, it works sometimes but not everytime, at least when I tried it.
Triple First-Slash Combo - If I can't get the Shield-Cancelling Animation to work, I can't do this. I can get it to work when Shield-Cancelling Animation works but I find it a bit slow from the 1st slash to the other 1st slash. Also, I can't get the 2nd slash to come out.
Is it because I am using Sealed Sword?
Delayed 2nd slash B (Moving) - I don't get what you mean by this. Is it about 2nd slash or charged attack? I know that both of them launches you forward a little.
Something I want to add: When I was experimenting with my Sealed Sword I found that after the charged attack you(at least I can) can immediately do another slash.
Fr, 07/01/2011 - 14:31
#7
kamarin
thx for the info! i have a kamarin and i had some trouble with it since i kept getting smashed between new attack animations and charge animations. this has helped me a lot. Thx again =)
Fr, 07/01/2011 - 14:42
#8
Another fun trick I like to
Another fun trick I like to use with my DA is Charge Cancelling into a 1st hit. Use the shield charging trick to begin with (or not if you really don't want to) and then get in close to your target. Release with your charge and immediately click again right afterwards. This will allow you to hit with the initial charge attack, set up the projectile fans, and then get another high damaging hit in that effectively sets your targets up to get hit multiple times by the fan. It's pretty much fantastic.
I should note this works best against Timbers, Trojans, and occasionally Mechaknights (as a mob mostly). The less knockback they take from the charge the better the trick works, but it's still fantastic none-the-less.
Sa, 07/02/2011 - 00:19
#9
Clarifications
NiteZ:
AS dumb as this may seem, there is a SLIGHT invincibility frame between the spin-around of the 2nd attack, this comes in handy when facing Jellies that are attacking with THEIR spin attack. If you manage to time it correctly, you will take no damage whatsoever and continue to beat the living daylights out of the monster(s). Also never charge a (Gran) Faust because of it's dumb chance of cursing self, unless it's lvl 10, your feeling lucky, OR you have 3+ weapons. That being said 2 swing weapons are great for murdering nearly everything.
Jellies slide forward and then have a delayed actual tackle. I usually time my second swing to launch into them at the same time. I don't think that's a matter of invincibility, unless you can say, pull that off on a wolver.
EliteChamp:
Shield-Cancelling Animation - I can't always get this to work, it works sometimes but not everytime, at least when I tried it.
Triple First-Slash Combo - If I can't get the Shield-Cancelling Animation to work, I can't do this. I can get it to work when Shield-Cancelling Animation works but I find it a bit slow from the 1st slash to the other 1st slash. Also, I can't get the 2nd slash to come out.
Is it because I am using Sealed Sword?
Delayed 2nd slash B (Moving) - I don't get what you mean by this. Is it about 2nd slash or charged attack? I know that both of them launches you forward a little.
- Shield cancelling animation: If you just hold shield during your slash1, the moment your shield comes up is exactly the length of time your slash (or really, any action) actually takes. I used to just slash1[hold shield], but since I have a better sense for how long it takes, I slash1>[wait]--[tap shield]. The second way just makes sure you don't spend time sitting in shield.
- Triple first-slash combo: Your first sentence is absolutely true. If you don't shield-cancel the first slash1, then the last part will come out as a slash1-slash2 combo instead of a slash1-slash1. You have to release at the end of the second (out of 3) slashes, at the time when you'd normally shield cancel.
- Delayed slash2 (moving): It's about pulling the slash2 (the spinning wide swing): Essentially, there are two ways to do the slash1-slash2 combo - one way is to physically click twice, which is what most people do. The second way is to hold [attack] for like, half a second, and then release it. The release itself will trigger the second slash.
Remember how I mention "the moment your shield comes up is exactly the length of time your slash actually takes" - Well, your charge animation does the same thing - it cancels the "extra" lag that you spend sitting there. In that time, you can walk the length of about 1 square (and a little further if you're using the troika line), release the attack button, and it will go into your slash2.
Sa, 07/02/2011 - 12:47
#10
Thanks a lot for the reply, I
Thanks a lot for the reply, I can now get it to perform better and with more training, I am sure to master it.
And Also, I think what I added at the end is what RBurrito is talking about. (Am I right?)
I think you should make a page in the wiki about how to use heavy swords to your advantage much in the same way as this one here: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Bombing_Guide
Sa, 07/02/2011 - 13:55
#11
@NiteZ
Gran faust charge attack isnt dumb. mine used to be lvl 1, and i used its charge atk. i once used it 27 times in a row b4 the cursing took place.
FINALLY some respect for 2 hti wepaons. i vowed to never use brandish weapons.
Sa, 07/02/2011 - 14:07
#12
_
@EliteChamp
Oh that's interesting. Didn't even know there was a bombing guide XD. Eh, maybe if this thread actually disappears off the front two pages or something.
@lith
random note, but when I help people out with JK runs, I go in with the Fallen set and still do GF's charge attack.
lol
So, 07/03/2011 - 12:18
#13
thats what happens with most
That's what happens with most threads, they are popular for a few days and then they die down (except for the ones about future updates, CE, techniques and etc). Hopefully this thread won't disappear as it is very useful.
So, 07/03/2011 - 12:16
#14
I have a friend which have a
I have a friend which have a Faust and when he used it in the Advanced Training Center, he got cursed nearly everytime he used the charged attack.
Does curse always leave you with at least 1 weapon and and at least 1 vial? This seem to happen when I get cursed in Graveyards.
Mo, 07/04/2011 - 15:20
#15
This is a really useful
This is a really useful thread. Maybe it can become a wiki artcile, similar to the Bombing Guide that Fallout recently created.
Mo, 07/04/2011 - 15:38
#16
When i first read this i
When i first read this i thought " I bet he missed (Delayed 2nd slash A)!" So I hopped on immediately to see if my cool trick was being used already. Seems like it is, but mind you this works with two shot guns as well like alchemers. This is why i use faust and prisma driver. This is a nice fourm though, thank you very much!
Mo, 07/04/2011 - 15:45
#17
Re: niteZ
Never charge a faust? It's all good as long as at least one of your armor peices has curse ressistance. You can get them to both have it AND buy a sanity amulet of some sort for grim spark tokens. I'm assuming the same applies to fang of vog, where you can set yourself on fire. Use something with fire ressistance or get a wetstone pendant from brinks for forage spark tokens and have at it. Especialy vog cub. Ironicaly makes a great pair with fang of vog.
Di, 07/05/2011 - 02:13
#18
For the triple slash, if I
For the triple slash, if I cancelled the 1st slash and just tapped the attack button twice, the second 1st slash came out but not the 2nd slash. Is that why you have to hold the attack button and then release?
And maybe you could include something about the armor and shields that boosts the slow speed of heavy swords like Swiftstrike Buckler?
Di, 07/05/2011 - 03:05
#19
Triple first-slash combo -
Triple first-slash combo - [Slash1]-[tap shield to cancel the animation]-[Hold slash]-[release].
Just wanted to point out this is a bug and will hopefully get patched at some point in the future. This list is very useful for anyone looking for information on using this type of weapon.
Fr, 07/08/2011 - 09:26
#20
Can't believe that this
Can't believe that this thread is disappearing.
Fr, 07/08/2011 - 16:15
#21
Compared to the Bombing
Compared to the Bombing "Guide" which was basically just a ten-page essay on why you should never touch any weapon that requires even the slightest amount of skill or strategy to use... THIS is actually more of a guide and provides some practical information, so I support seeing it adapted for Wiki presentation.
Oh, just make sure to include a bit about how heavy swords should ALWAYS be accompanied by either a faster sword or a good gun. You ever gone into a Devilite floor with nothing but a Kamarin and a slow bomb? I have. Wasn't pretty...
Actually, a valid side note may be that carrying a slow sword, especially the wide-reaching Troika series, kind of invalidates using a normal bomb at all, simply because they achieve exactly the same purpose in battle: The ability to slowly smack a large group of enemies for high damage. Plus, high knockback swords and bombs usually don't COMBO well together. For all the trouble of knocking something INTO a bomb's radius you could just shield-push or lure them into it, so more often you'll just find yourself knocking things OUT by mistake.
Sa, 07/09/2011 - 03:32
#22
Am I the only one who likes
Am I the only one who likes to use heavy swords on gremlins? The knockback of the Troika's first slash prevents axe gremlins from hitting you if you time it right, and run back right after you use it. Any other kind of weapon seems more dangerous to use, since they dodge guns, and other swords have lower range and lower knockback.
Sa, 07/09/2011 - 16:52
#23
Okay so I'm running into a
Okay so I'm running into a bit of a dilemma. I'm not sure what sword to use next to my Khorovod. So far I've been using the Snarble Barb which seems to be a perfect partner to the Khorovod. Am I right to assume this?
The reason I'm asking is that I also really like the Nightblade line. Replacing the Barb with that will leave me really weak to devilites though, but through careful gate choosing, I haven't run into one "workplace" dungeon; is this possible through the whole game?
I just recently got to T2 by the way, and have Ash Tail/Swiftstrike, going for Vog.
What do you guys think? Keep the Barb or pick up a Nightblade?
Sa, 07/09/2011 - 17:57
#24
Aye, Gran Faust vs Gremlins
Aye, Gran Faust vs Gremlins ftw :3
Sa, 07/09/2011 - 18:35
#25
@Skaiwalka
Nightblade + barb
@Skaiwalka
Nightblade + barb or Nightblade +khor
Or get a 3rd slot and use em all :)
Sa, 07/09/2011 - 19:47
#26
So Nightblade + Khorovod
So Nightblade + Khorovod isn't a bad idea?
Mo, 07/11/2011 - 22:55
#27
It isn't a bad idea if you
It isn't a bad idea if you know how to deal with Devilites. Devilites (except Pit Bosses) are pretty weak so if you aim well, you can take them out quite easily with your Khorovod. All you need to do is shield cancel you first slash and don't do your second slash because the cool down time leaves you vulnerable to damage.
So, 08/28/2011 - 08:20
#28
NECROING
Necroing this thread.
It helped me a while back when I was a newbie and I feel others need to see this too.
I figured that it'd be best for the community if I bumped it up.
Most of the tips should be common sense, but the three main 'techniques' which influenced and enhanced my play style are;
- Delayed 2nd slash B (Moving)
- Triple first-slash combo
- Charging without slashing
The last one works for all weapons and is probably the best, yet most unknown trick. I always see people striking initially for a charge and it makes me frown. It could speed up your charge by 1-1.5 seconds depending on what weapon you use, which may not seem like much in numerical form but in game it will help tremendously.
I can guarantee that a DA with the trick can pull nearly twice as much charges over some one elses DA of the same CTR.
Di, 09/27/2011 - 09:03
#29
Sorry but your information is
Sorry but your information is a bit out of date. Khorovod now has the rocks removed for some stupid and ludicrous reason. Now the sword is a bit under-powered in my opinion.
Bump... ;)
Di, 09/27/2011 - 11:00
#30
I've never been able to get
I've never been able to get the "Charge without slashing" technique to work, when i release shield i just do a slash then into charge attack. All the other stuff works just fine though, been using them for a long time now. Maybe something to do with playing on the USB 360 pad? but i very much doubt it, hopefully its something im missing : ]
Di, 09/27/2011 - 11:35
#31
actually yes, it has to do
actually yes, it has to do with the 360 gamepad, at least if you use the left trigger for shield and the right trigger for attack, in the 360 gamepad, you can't use that technique as those triggers are actually a single analog axis, that prevents from actually having both shield and attack button presses at the same time. Think of this as left trigger moves a Z axis from 0 to -1 while the right trigger will move it from 0 to 1, so you can't have the axis be both -1 and +1
I used xpadder to set the triggers to keyboard presses so I can use the Charge without slashing technique.
also someone mentioned in the forums, that if you release the shield and you are not charging, you can tap shield again (without releasing the attack button) and it will start charging
Di, 09/27/2011 - 13:27
#32
It is weird and unintuitive
It is weird and unintuitive for them to be one joystick axis, but that does not necessitate incompatibility of both inputs. I was able to charge from shield using that axis, though I am using a different OS (and, presumably, java implementation) and had attack on the left and shield on the right instead. I will try to remember to experiment next time I log in and find out what controls exclude each other, and in which directions.
Di, 09/27/2011 - 13:29
#33
Ahhh, yeh i am using the
Ahhh, yeh i am using the trigger for shield/attack. I'll go get xpadder, does it interfere with anything else though? or can i for example, set a profile so it's only active when im playing Spiral Knights? Use the pad for a lot of other games thats all. Thanks dude!
Do, 10/13/2011 - 13:34
#34
This public service bump brought to you by BSOD
This public service bump brought to you by BSOD
Fr, 10/14/2011 - 07:45
#35
I've discovered all of these
I've discovered all of these on my own as well, just playing around with the game mechanics.
One of these tricks also lets you get all your hits in with the three swing swords, regardless of range.
Ever notice how with leviathan and brandishes a lot of the time the third swing will miss just short? Hold attack on the second swing, take just a very short step (if you wait too long, you'll get the first swing again,) and release. That half step is enough to get your third hit to connect, no wall needed.
It works with the thorn blade and the other rapier as well, but it works better if you hold between first and second swings, instead of second and third.
Do, 11/17/2011 - 12:30
#36
.
.
Fr, 12/09/2011 - 04:50
#37
this should be bumped.
this should be bumped.
Sa, 12/10/2011 - 07:31
#38
Come on, man!
Most of it doesn't even apply. Khorovod's rocks died thousands of years ago. And the original poster has quit. PLEASE let dead threads rest.
Sa, 12/10/2011 - 08:08
#39
still.. some of the
still.. some of the stratergies are usefull.
thx for the bump anyways!
Sa, 12/10/2011 - 09:31
#40
ONE thing in this thread is
ONE thing in this thread is no longer relevant. The strategies are still highly useful to large number of players.
Do, 01/12/2012 - 02:02
#41
so.. i was thinking that
so.. i was thinking that instead of bumping this like crazy all the time maybe someone could pls make a wiki page with this?
Do, 01/12/2012 - 02:44
#42
--
Ask, and thou shalt receive. Link:
Oh wait, Steam accts can't edit the wiki or create pages. Nevermind. I'll go be useless somewhere else.
Do, 01/12/2012 - 07:29
#43
good luck.
good luck.
Do, 01/12/2012 - 12:44
#44
this is just copy and paste
this is just copy and paste off the wiki. dont try to claim credit for this.
Do, 01/12/2012 - 15:03
#45
good info
is good.
Do, 01/12/2012 - 15:19
#46
lol
the wiki copy and pasted from this
if you look at the date this was created it predates the wiki page
So, 01/15/2012 - 16:13
#47
hi
hi
Fr, 01/20/2012 - 17:08
#48
hi
(again)
Mi, 01/25/2012 - 04:44
#49
I read this when it was first
I read this when it was first posted. As a long time user of heavy swords, I was pleasantly surprised.
I still cannot do the 3 slash combo. ._.
Mi, 01/25/2012 - 05:03
#50
Not much to see here.
Really, heavy swords aren't that hard to use.
Offensively on crowds, defensively on single targets. Use your shield and don't recklessly spam the second swing. That's all you need to know about heavy swords.
Getting my Sealed Sword soon, this is infinitely helpful, as I haven't used a two strike weapon yet. Thanks a ton man.