Spiral Knights - Graviton Vortex [Added another longer, more extensive video]

Graviton Vortex [Added another longer, more extensive video]

40 replies [Last post]

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:35

Velcro

Hey,

So whenever I read anything anyone says about the Graviton I mainly hear about how it flings enemies or how it's low damage. I think that this bomb is severely underrated. I invite anyone to run FSC with me once for me Grav Bombing and see how easy it makes things.

For now, I present a few things that players may not know about the Graviton Vortex:

- If the enemies become frozen while in the Vortex then the 'pop' which flings them will only break the ice and not fling them. (Great with Glacius)

- If there are enough enemies collected in the Vortex then they will not be flung out in my experience.

- The Graviton Bomb is an incredible let down compared to the Vortex, with a much larger AoE and a one second longer duration (very key).

Now what do you need to be a good Grav Bomber? You should memorize where enemies spawn and get ready with a Grav Vortex the second they spawn. You also need to be able to weave very close to enemies while charging so you can get into the mob of enemies to collect more.

//
Edit:
You can sort of abuse the AI of skeletons such that you wait for a moment so they start doing their jump/breathe at which point you can ample time to get closer.
\\

Why is the Grav Vortex so good in my opinion? If you consider that your charge attack will only hit around 3-4 enemies at max, maybe a bit of extra damage to a few others, then since the Grav Vortex can get upwards of 10 enemies trapped it's effectively increasing charge attack damage by 250%, since it's being dealt to more enemies.

//
Edit:
Note that I'm not talking about the damage from the bomb itself. I'm talking about laying a bomb and then immediately charging up say your Glacius or Acheron or perhaps DA though I've never actually tried with a DA so I can't say for certain whether a normal one at level 10 would be able to charge in time.
\\

The biggest argument for the Vortex though is for speedy runs. If you can just stand where the enemies spawn and lay your bomb down for everyone to charge attack into, then the proper team can one-hit waves one after another.

Oh, and there are lots of big nice numbers whenever you smash into the mobs in the Vortex.

Videos of examples of usage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va9RgLU3gP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKjKrWnpbKY

Opinions, comments?

Velcro

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 00:58

Nelm

Legacy Username

Well..

I tried to like the Grav bomb, I really did.. there are just too many issues with it.

A. Fuse timer - Sure you can get by with proper prediction, but it makes it a pain to use mid-fight

B. Suction radius - It's just not large enough. The comparison to other bombs area's of effect, makes it a sad, sad bomb.

C. Effort vs. reward - The dmg and utility is just not there for the overall prep time, planning, and execution of common tactics with this bomb. Sure it's great to suck in abunch of mobs then hit em with a peppergun or something along those lines.. but the reality is, that's really only effective and/or feasible in solo play. In a group, no dice. Swordies are knocking mobs everywhere.

D. Opportunity cost - I have 4 slots. I can think of at least 5 bombs I'd put in those slots before grav.. just due to their useful debuffs and/or damage.

The fling really isn't an issue. But just about everything else about the bomb is. Alot of the same issues I have with the deconstructor line. It's really awesome in like 1-2 situations, beyond that.. it's a slot better used by something else.

Honestly, I wish all fuse timers were universal and the detonation time was the differential. It would make for abit more tactical and fluid bomber-play, in my opinion anyway.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 02:00

Velcro

@Nelm:

I will admit that there times it is difficult to use mid-fight. And I may be somewhat biased since it's fairly easy to kite zombies around, especially when they lunge or breathe fire, so I might just be having a fairly easy time weaving around the enemies because of that. Though I have used the Grav Bomb effectively against other mobs.

The suction radius is one thing I don't think is that bad. It is fairly simple, imo, to just lead enemies into the vortex. Since they will move in a very predictable way, at least most enemies do, so generally I find if I just kite clockwise, or counterclockwise, and then just drop the bomb infront of the middle of the mob that most of the side enemies get pulled in as well.

Also, it is entirely possible to use this as a group tactic. If everyone hits at roughly the same time then they should all get their damage in. Better yet, if you have a party member attack from the opposite direction you can sandwich them nicely. Though I admit it takes some getting used to for effective teamplay with the bomb.

I'm not much of a bomber myself, I've only used the grav, though I've seen the popular bombs like the Haze variants used and I'd still have to say that the Grav Bomb just does something none of the others can.

Edit:

Additionally I'm wondering how many people try the Graviton Bomb then get turned off and never get to the Vortex. There are two major differences between the two. The bomb sucks at sucking. The vortex is sooo much better. But that's the obvious one. The more subtle difference is that the Vortex holds for 1 seconds longer. Thus, with the combo being to place a bomb and immediately charge up an attack, I find I cannot perform the combo unless I'm flawless with the Bomb. With that one second extra, I easily have enough time to get a charge in.

I would absolutely love to run with someone who thinks that the bomb is bad, both to get input on the style and to give an example.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 04:04

Syor

Legacy Username

not related.

but I was thinking that the graviton could be changed.

@graviton initial attack will pull enemy in, continuously for a period of time.

@Monsters sucked in, will be rotated till pulling time ends

¤up to here, its the same as current graviton¤

@when pulling time ends, monsters will be teleported anywhere between x distance, instead of being fling around

@when teleported, all monster that can be knocked down will experience the 'knockdown animation'

Well, justasuggestion.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:19

Bigfootm

This is ALMOST all true. I

This is ALMOST all true. I crafted my Grav. Vortex a week ago or so, and I love it. It goes perfect wtih my SMB. Since the SMB cloud lasts so long, you put the SMB down THEN the Vortex THEN FINALLY, I can go hack and slash with my GF or DA. Yes the Grav Bomb/Vortex is low on damage but HELLO, it's not used for damage! It's used for sucking in enemies while the others go hacking and slashing!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 09:56

Dymlus

Great to know

I'm currently running a Freezing Atomizer and was seriously considering making both the Grav Vortex and Shivermist Bombs.

Glad to know they combo so well in test.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 02:55

Dottor-Troione

What about damage and general

What about damage and general behaviour against Gremlins and Slimes? Damage should be decent I think...

and I'm particularly curious about its utility in Deconstruction Zones and danger rooms with Oilers or Quicksilvers. The idea would be to use it with an Acheron. Will the explosion throw those lichens to the grates? If soloing, is there a good chance that Acheron's charge attack + explosion is enough to kill some lichens/gremlins (they are low-health enemies after all) ?

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 03:11

greekjr14

Legacy Username

I have to go with BigFootm on

I have to go with BigFootm on this one. I have seen many people in my party use Graviton Bomb, and honestly, I love it. I find it easier than a freeze bomb because it brings the enemies in a single location when sucked in. I coordinate with the person with the bomb, they lay it down, I charge up an attack, and then BAM instant full charge swing on about 5-6 (sometimes way more) enemies. Sometimes after my charge attack some enemies (if not all) stay inside of the vortex, which allows me to get a few more swings off. Sure the radius is not huge, but it is up to the person with the bomb to learn key points on when and where to put it. I find it especially useful when kiting. I bring the enemies around with me, lead them into the bomb, and another free charge swing with little worry on taking damage (not saying you cannot kite at all without it, but it sure does help). I think this bomb is severely underused. Yes it deals low damage, but as said, its not the damage you get it for. You get it for the effect that it has. I think of it as a support bomb.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 03:46

Oppenheimer

http://www.xfire.com/video/1c

http://www.xfire.com/video/1c4cb/

That's what a Black Hole's supposed to do. :P

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 06:08

Fallout

ah, your the guy i vanna'd

ah, your the guy i vanna'd with, and made me place graviton as my next thing to upgrade =p

I thankyou for showing your skillage with it. But see i think most complainers of graviton are majority bomb users, and chaining graviton in FSC doesn't get you far if you have no sword (i.e. me), and sure its easy but it takes forever. you can always quick switch to a radiant sunshards to do a ton of damage, but without decent latency and reflexs your stuffed.

Again good job on showing that the only terrible bombs are irontech and ionized. =p (*steals stuff for the bomber guide*) i k33d

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 11:55

#10

Velcro

@Dr_Troione:

From my experience it does ~150-200 to enemies weak to it. Not a lot but certainly good enough I think.

The explosion could potentially throw the lichens to the grate. Though there are two ways to prevent this:

1. You can freeze the enemies in the vortex, then the explosion merely breaks the ice.

2. If you get enough enemies in the vortex then when it explodes they just sorta stick together and don't move.

Also, in the lower depths of tier 3 you can one-hit waves of slimes/gremlins. I'm going to try wearing full Skolver + Dark Thorn Shield and see if that damage is enough to one-hit everything weak to your attack while solo-ing.

Edit:

I'd also like to add that with just a level 10 Glacius/Acheron, you MUST begin charging up almost immediately after laying the bomb. But with a CTR UV, for instance my Glacius has a high CTR UV, you can lay the bomb, block, back away, and then start charging and still get the hit in.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 12:40

#11

Prisega

"Also, in the lower depths of

"Also, in the lower depths of tier 3 you can one-hit waves of slimes/gremlins. I'm going to try wearing full Skolver + Dark Thorn Shield and see if that damage is enough to one-hit everything weak to your attack while solo-ing."

On the wiki it said you could only have a +4 bonus on weapons which means you wouldn't have +6 from that set but only +4. It may be more beneficial to change one of your Skolver pieces to Vog Cub or change the Barbarous Thorn into a Swift Strike Buckler. That way you're doing everything you can to defeat enemies more quickly, upped attack power and upped attack speed.

And personally I've seen the Graviton used before and I thought it was a pretty useful bomb, especially for Royal Jelly since it got all those damn minions away from us. I assume that its overlooked because a bomb like the shivermist could produce a simillar effect since it'll instantly freeze the enemy once you break them out of the ice. And there was an instance where I almost got mauled by a Lumber because the Graviton sent the thing flying towards me.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 13:05

#12

weberto

Legacy Username

Actually you can use full

Actually you can use full skolver + barbarous thorn shield to get maximum damage on swords, the wiki refers to UVs, you can't have a sword UV beyond very high, but you can combine multiples UVs+Properties to get Max damage.

while using the full skolver + barb shield, at least for gun puppies and spookats (and using a fully leveled up Divine Avenger) I can kill them with 2 hits (on the latest floors I need to use the full combo as 2 first hits won't kill the spookats, but I think that's on the last 2 floors only), using a single charge attack should be able to kill them I think, but I haven't tested the charge attack

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 13:17

#13

Prisega

Ok I understand now, there's

Ok I understand now, there's actually topic all about the UV and maximum stats that we're talking about here. So figure since I'm using the Chroma set and the Barborous Thorn I'll have Max damage against Jellies then? Thats good to know, we should probably update the wiki in order to prevent further confusion. Thanks much for the clarification.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 12:19

#14

Velcro

I want to verify

I want to verify something.

With Skolver set + Thorn Shield I have max bonus damage with swords, yes.

Does this bonus to damage stack with say, a bonus vs. a certain type of monster?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 12:21

#15

Eeks

The way enemy bonuses works

The way enemy bonuses works is:

vhigh dmg to Beast + med dmg w/ swords = max dmg to beast, med dmg to everything else

So no, you won't go above maximum damage bonus.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:58

#16

Velcro

Thanks. I'll post back when

Thanks.

I'll post back when I'm sporting max damage and see til what depth I can one-hit waves.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 05:57

#17

Velcro

With Skolver Coat + Barbarous

With Skolver Coat + Barbarous Thorn Shield:

[Added link to first post]

Also for those who are wondering my Glacius has CTR Ultra in this video. Forgive the bad quality as well, I'm currently on a pretty poor wireless but nonetheless I believe you can still follow roughly what is happening, and the carnage!

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 03:19

#18

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

i dont really care what other people say about it, when some1 complains i already know he knows too much and doesnt judge it naturally

however, i barely used that bomb, but after seeing that awesome video of urs i might try that out some day, yet i still doubt id use the bomb often

i agree to the speedrun part, it kinda pwns ->jellys<- with a gran faust and also noob gremlins without shield

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 04:33

#19

SlyJohnny

Legacy Username

I like the Graviton Vortex.

I like the Graviton Vortex. It drags enemies into one predictable clump, which is situationally often much better then the Shivermist and it's tendency to create a Wall of Death from frozen mobs. The 5* version increases the range of the actual vortex, so even something that isn't snagged on the initial blast will blunder into it. It's sort of like a gigantic bear trap, and you can create barriers with them. You can snag an entire arena load of enemies with a single bomb, easy. My sword-wielding friends love it.

The half-speed move is a real pain, and seems like an unnecessary nerf, though. Makes it hard to deal with the quicker slimes, as they'll mob you as you stumble away, trying to find time to plant it. The bomb isn't as great as OOO seem to think it is.

Overall, all I want is for them to fix mobs escaping from it randomly, and make it so it damages T3 gremlins despite their shields. And if they made it so that the mobs it entraps are facing inwards rather then outwards, it'd be competitive with the Shivermist for best bomb.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 05:27

#20

Metaphysic

Legacy Username

I'd take shivermist over

I'd take shivermist over graviton any day. Larger range, more predictable, more control, and faster movement speed? Yeah... why are you using graviton again?

Also, I'm pretty sure a large enough knockback (like leviathan charge) will blow mobs out of the vortex instead of hitting them 3 times like freeze allows. I've only run into someone using vortex a few times but that's what I remember.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 05:52

#21

Velcro

You're right about the Levi

You're right about the Levi charge. Similarly some other charges will send them out. The solution to this is the get two, or more, people to approach the Graviton from directions with equal angles between their lines of motion. This way you essentially crunch the enemies together.

Similarly to the Levi charge problem, though, Kats and Wolvers both can get out quite easily.

Also, though the Shivermist is much more easy to use safely, I use Graviton for fast, efficient wave clearing which is something the Shivermist cannot compare to. With the Graviton it is possible for a party of 4, or possibly less, to wipe every enemy caught within the Vortex.

I will comment that I much prefer Shivermist against enemies with projectiles and/or fast movement. However I just don't see the necessity to use Shivermist against slow, easy to dodge enemies when with a competent team (though I note this may not always be the case).

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 06:37

#22

IceMilkTea

Legacy Username

I think....

For the cost to craft one to 5*, and how itll take another slot for a bomb..... i dun think its worth it....

Especially how it costs 800 CE just for going from 4* to 5* >.>

Now if we were to go back to the good old days where it costs only 300 CE from 4* to 5* then maybe ill give it a try and have fun with it.
But for now, id rather pay and use a slot for a shivermist as my only bomb, a DA, maybe an extra Faust/piercing sword/what-not, and an AP or something....

But thats me...

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:31

#23

Eeks

I think the problem here is

I think the problem here is that you're disagreeing with what people have said in the bomb balance thread and your counter-example is an extremely specific scenario where the Graviton is useful. Nobody ever said it wasn't completely worthless. There ARE things on it that do need work though and turning a blind eye to that is somewhat naive in my opinion.

Almost all the examples you had in the video are spawn-drops in really tight areas which is almost exclusive to specific FSC and partially danger rooms. Yes, you cleared them fast but safely? I don't know about that. In most of the examples you took 3-8 bars of damage. From all my times clearing FSC I do it fast and without putting myself at risk using the other crowd control bombs (Nitronome, Shivermist). I'm not a huge fan of a bomb that requires a lot of teamwork because you're going to rely on too much other than yourself. For example, all the clears at 39s I push up from spikes with nitronome then into a corner with another nitronome and any group that can hit the attack button can clear it just as fast.

Even with the graviton vortex, the timing is EXTREMELY tight. You're using a sword with CTR bonus on it and you admit that the timing window leaves little leeway. From what I've tested, most sword charges are different which means that the graviton is likely only usable with a small assortment of swords if you have no bonuses and on top of that some of them will push them out of the vortex and none other than the glacius line with freeze them in place allowing the vortex to fling them afterwards. Also outside of charge attacks, people are extremely vulnerable to taking damage.

Sorry but a bomb with caveats like only being useful as spawn-drops 90% of the time, requiring specific teamwork, potentially requiring UVs, requiring a specific set of accompanying weapons doesn't seem very balanced to me.

I don't think evidence of the bomb's usefulness in a specific situation is good proof that nothing should be changed about it. Is it useable? Yeah. Hell, I can use the ionized salt bomb to clear rooms but that doesn't mean it is good or balanced. I can find really specific scenarios where the cutter charge is awesome but that doesn't mean it is good or balanced. I can find really specific scenarios where the big angry bomb is awesome but that doesn't mean it is good or balanced either.*

* Just kidding you'l never find a situation where Big Angry Bomb is "good". LOL

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:10

#24

SlyJohnny

Legacy Username

Eek, I think Graviton is

Eek, I think the Graviton Vortex is quite frequently a more reliable bomb than the Shivermist, not only in high specific circumstances. I prefer it against Mecha Knights, Slimes, and most "mixed" groups, especially (but not only) arenas.

Don't get me wrong, Shivermist is a damn good bomb and I have one with a Very High uv. I'd even say Shivermist is the better bomb, but hell, what ISN'T the Shivermist superior to? I like the unmatched selective crowd control that carrying both bombs gives me.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:55

#25

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

1st i kinda agree to eeks

but i dont really understand, we got SPEED

1.)gravi COMBO
2.)shiver COMBO
3?.)big angry bomb COMBO

1.)gravi
2.)big angry bomb
3.)shivermist buster

or fun

1,2,3.) players choice

i also saw him taking hits and id kinda lose much more hp in skolver, i just assume he had some good uvs on it, i duno, but the video was good, he made his point

ive had a few people complain about my personal bombs very often before, no1 complains about his own weapons since thats every1s personal choice
the fact, that less people, who are actually aware of any issues with graviton vortex, would be complaining about it, is good enough, thers no need to convince every1 into using that weap and if some ppl get attracted..i think the DPS can be quite charming as surviving alone with max hp isnt always fun

i duno about u, but for me..fun is top priority

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 15:14

#26

Velcro

@Eek5:

I think your arguments based on my video are fair and thus I will have to return when I get footage from a more extensive list of situations. I do use it in other maps against other enemies. About the only enemies that you can't use it against effectively are:
- Kats
- Devilites
- Greavers

These are the enemies I much prefer a Shivermist to. Though spawn busting with Graviton is still an option even with these enemies, and I don't think that it's too much to ask a Graviton user to remember the location of spawns. Or, barring remembering, just guess where some will show up and sometimes be right, and kill a few, and sometimes be wrong.

I will admit it is more dangerous in the sense that you might lose Hp from attacks you do while attacking into the Vortex. Though while I'm using fraps my computer becomes pretty laggy so my ability with the bomb drops off (I died in the first room of FSC from lagging into lava several times when I first turned it on and wasn't used to it at all o.o)

If I had the CE to, I would try out Graviton with every sword out there to see if they can, but that's unrealistic. Similarly I would also change my Glacius to one without a UV to remove that advantage, as well as equipping armor without UVs (the armor I use in the videos have a UV shadow max on the Skolver coat and a UV ele max on the Divine Veil).

Note that my Acheron has a damage bonus vs gremlins UV (which I got before going full Skolver + Dark Thorn so it's a total waste now *guntohead* D=) so it will have a more likely CTR.

Also one more thing, I don't think that taking the damage from Graviton is a problem since afterwards I find I can usually heal pretty decently off the hearts that drop from a well placed Graviton.

Nonetheless I'll return when I have videos from a more extensive list of monsters in a more extensive list of situations including but not limited to spawn busting.

Thanks for your input anywho everyone, ^^

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 15:33

#27

Eeks

>i duno about u, but for

>i duno about u, but for me..fun is top priority
I think you're missing the point here. You can use whatever bombs you want. My argument is that we shouldn't cherry pick out specific scenarios that the graviton in its current incarnation works well in and then try to come to the conclusion that everything is fine and dandy with it, because it isn't. The bomb needs adjustments made to its mechanics to make it a more useful bomb in most situations instead of just some. I don't see how you could argue with that. Giving the vortex a little more time, giving it more damage, or even more predictable post-explosion push would only enhance its usage in the situations that Gemini uses the grav in AND make it usable in a lot more situations without being overly punishing like it is now.

Just because I think the graviton is unbalanced doesn't mean I think it is terribly unbalanced. It's definitely not in the same tier as irontech, deconstructor, venom veiler, big angry bomb but it doesn't mean that it does not need some adjustments to it. I mean, I posted about the DBB in the bomb balance thread and it is one of the most balanced damage bombs right now but that doesn't mean an adjustment to its fuse wouldn't make it better without making it overpowered.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 16:46

#28

Velcro

And your argument is valid

And your argument is valid with what I have presented. In the next video I post up I will try to include scenes involving as many monster types as I can possibly engage effectively with Graviton as well as scenes without spawn busting.

I definitely would not argue with buffs to this equipment though, even one second longer on both the Bomb and Vortex would probably do well to make it more balanced.

More damage is unnecessary, even to the point that I would remove the damage in favor of other effects like a longer holding time. It pales in comparison to the damage done by your party members and you to the enemies in it.

There is an argument to be made that enemies within the Vortex shouldn't be able to attack but I personally feel that this would make it TOO good.

The only other buff to it I've heard is to make the fling knockdown enemies. This actually seems like the best solution to me. Exactly the same as it is now, maybe trading damage for 1 second longer holding time, but knockdown enemies that get shot out (even though sometimes they don't get shot out if there is enough enemies or they're frozen).

All I really want to do with this topic is show what the bomb is capable of, to discuss it, and show people how to use it effectively.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 22:59

#29

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

yea, from ur point of view i agree the gravi isnt always very helpful, the charge time and danger it takes to place it is rarely worth the time u can save by using it correctly

some sort of bonus would sure be nice

Thu, 07/07/2011 - 00:16

#30

Nelm

Legacy Username

I really don't think anyone

I really don't think anyone is saying the Grav isn't a functional bomb. Personally I like your use of Grav + Glacius - The sword makes it work.

I think that might be part of what bothers me. The sword doesn't make my other bombs functional in a party. Yeah, I suppose you could aruge that you could drop a shiver right after, but you would lose your spread, and ultimately beg the question of why didn't I just drop the shiver to begin with and use a diffrent sword.

Situationally it seems to work for you, and that's what it's all about in the end. It looks like fun, but sadly, I still don't think I see it doing anything I can't accomplish with another bomb.. and therein lies the rub.

In the end, as mentioned, if you're having fun with it, roll with it. I don't think trying to prove to everyone it's a great bomb is going to work though. We all have some issues with it, the same issues many have with BAB, Irontech, Shard-lines, VV.. etc.. that have been beaten to death.

Someday, I hope they simply make charge timeres universal, and let the detonation time being the differential. I've probably mentioned that before, but hey, just a wish.

Thu, 07/07/2011 - 05:04

#31

SlyJohnny

Legacy Username

Nelm, what I'm saying is that

Nelm, what I'm saying is that the Graviton isn't just a poor man's Shivermist. It's a CC bomb, but it doesn't work the same way as Shivermist. It is superior in a large enough number of situations that I wouldn't call it merely "situationally useful" except in the loosest sense of the phrase.

Gathering mecha knights (and the miscelleanous trash mobs that accompany them) into a vortex clump is much, much better and safer than randomly flash freezing them, and anyone with a heavy sword can whale on all eight of of the bastards with a charge attack. You do more damage then if you just go chopping through a collection of frozen mobs, and they remain a reduced threat up until the bomb discharges, rather then the moment you hit them.

You can gather an entire arena full of mobs very easily. I would say it's even easier then freezing a roomful of mobs with an ice cloud, because they get sucked in the very second they even wander nearby.

I think most people dismiss it too quickly and underrate it's power and utlity, and I think that's a shame. It's a devastating bomb when it's used well.

Thu, 07/07/2011 - 07:45

#32

Eeks

The Shivermist, Graviton, and

The Shivermist, Graviton, and Nitronome all have different functions. Crowd control doesn't necessarily mean freeze, or push, or round up. If there is a crowd, it doesn't mean that you should apply your "crowd control" bomb 100% of the time (i.e. shivermist, nitronome, graviton everytime there is a group of enemies) Anyway, with that said, everything below is my opinion. I've been bombing for a long time so take it fwiw but at the end of the day it is just my opinion.

I don't think any of the situations that have been brought fourth where the graviton is supposedly useful is really worth a slot in your load out. The thing is you really don't need to control a crowd if you're spawn camping. In an arena there is already a form of crowd control available that requires no bombs: kitting. As a bomber I rarely ever use any form of bomb-CC because it is unnecessary. You can already kite all of the mobs in an arena straight into the elemental blast of a haze bomb if you guide them to it instead of just maximizing DPS.

> I think most people dismiss it too quickly and underrate it's power and utlity, and I think that's a shame. It's a devastating bomb when it's used well.

I agree to a certain extent. The graviton is probably underused because its 4* version is underwhelming and its 5* version is better but still less forgiving. If I push incorrectly with the nitronome there are adjustments I can make to keep chaos under control. If you shiv incorrectly you can just stop and allow the area to be cleared and the ice broken. If you don't grav correctly you just create chaos and it can't be fixed. It is just pure entropy which is maybe what they want but that's for another discussion.

On the other hand though, I think it is naive to lump every bomber together and say that they dismiss it because they don't know what it can do. The fact is, a lot of bombers DO know what it can do and choose not to use it because it either doesn't fit their playstyle or they don't find using crowd control in the situations outlined above to be particularly useful.

If you can get everyone on your team on the same page, you're right, the graviton is devastating but what isn't devastating if you get your entire team on the same page?

Sat, 07/09/2011 - 18:49

#33

Velcro

New video

I've posted up a new video which avoids the use of spawn busting, for the most part, and involves many different enemy types and different areas.

I've also added my 2 cents to the Wiki entry for the Graviton Vortex along with a link to the new video there as well.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 18:16

#34

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

few things u could add
- gravi can suck through walls
- gravi can make monsters slip through thin walls(doesnt seem to work in training hall, but happened in fsc without horsey, not sure if thats good or bad tho)
- gravi works well with shock
- gravi can be powerful on shocked quicksilvers, so they kill each other, similar to regular monsters, just faster

edit:levi charges mess my gravis up, mostly shoot away mobs, heavy swords r good in most cases

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 14:39

#35

Shuwashuwa

Legacy Username

My friend has a vortex and it

My friend has a vortex and it allows us to clear some spawns in various levels very easily. Your videos are very nice too. I'd get the bomb if my friend didn't have it already. It also seems like levi charge doesn't push monsters outside of the radius, or if it does it still does two hits. Can anyone confirm this?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:07

#36

Flyingninza

i got this bomb as my first

i got this bomb as my first 5* item, and wasnt very impressed, mostly just ticked that i wasted all the stuff on it. then i got the levi blade, and most everyone here is saying the bomb sucks with levi, but i found that it is an incredibly powerful combo, and doesnt launch all the monsters in every direction. then the brandish update came out, and i made a glacius. although i have no UVs on either of these weps, the massive damage done by these weps in tandem makes it an insanely over-powered bomb.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 00:06

#37

Batabii

Did you really need to necro

Did you really need to necro a 6 month old thread for this?

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 11:54

#38

Darkbrady

Not at all, especially when

Not at all, especially when there's a far more recent thread (i believe on the 1/2nd page of Arsenal?) where there's plenty of discussion about the Vortex.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 13:33

#39

Bomberman-Six-Two

JK runs

Well my opinion is: To be a good bomber in JK, you will need the GV and the DR because you will pull all those purple jellies and you can DR areas before you step on a party switch. So GV is VERY useful at times. Email me at: ghmic@hotmail.co.uk

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 14:39

#40

Little-Juances

Seerusly?

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Graviton Vortex [Added another longer, more extensive video]