The Gravity Sword-Bomber : Optimized Destruction
So, 08/21/2011 - 19:21
I'd like to open this topic to discuss optimizing a specific build. Namely combining either the Graviton or Electron Vortex with powerful attacks (likely sword charge attacks)
The name of the game is to maximize the amount of damage dealt to enemies trapped in the Vortex. To this end I believe most purely Normal attacks can be disregarded since I believe the bonus from using an Elemental, Shadow, or Piercing weapon will far outweigh any damage difference against neutral targets.
Hence I'd like to find the Elemental, Shadow, and Piercing weapons (likely swords but hey who knows) that deal the most damage. I'll state my preferences and then I'd like to hear different opinions, get a discussion going on this style.
Elemental:
Voltedge
Shadow:
Acheron
Piercing:
Final Flourish; though I haven't tried out a Piercing weapon with this style yet, so I'm not sure.
Mo, 08/22/2011 - 08:56
#2
DA, Acheron, Barb Thorn
DA, Acheron, Barb Thorn Blade
Any of the brandish elemental line could work too though i reckon, despite the double explosion on 5* pieces DA beats them on charge. If GF had as wide a swing as its 2nd swing on its charge i'd say that too but it doesnt, the projectile is ass and self curse sucks; acheron. Last one is easy, a flourish charge will get you killed and do poor damage (its a single target charge) whereas snarby is aoe and especially good vs tightly packed groups
all just my opinion though, just dont get too horny when hitting the mobs in a vortex, they can random you out pretty hard :p
Mo, 08/22/2011 - 10:09
#3
@ufna:
I'd direct you to a video I posted on Youtube showcasing this kind of style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKjKrWnpbKY.
Anyway, thanks for the Snarble Barb suggestion, I picked myself up one from the AH and I'm going to try it out next I can. Also have a DA in the making with a CTR low UV. FoV is also mighty tempting though. By the way if anyone is curious the current set I'm running is:
Armor:
Skolver Coat with Shadow Maximum! (Though tbh a Fire resist could be more useful if I intend to go with FoV but eh)
Helmet:
Divine Veil with Elemental Maximum! (Again a status resist might be better, just observations from gameplay)
Sheild:
Barbarous Thorn Shield with Elemental Low (Definitely want a defense UV here, preferably Elemental Maximum)
Weapons:
Glacius with UV CTR High
Acheron with ASI Low (Would really rather a CTR UV here)
Electron Vortex with UV CTR Medium (CTR is probably preferable but I've always wondered about more damage)
Graviton Vortex with UV CTR Low
Trinkets:
Elite Slash Module
Elite Sword Focus Module
And I'm working on the Snarble Barb and a DA to test out. Also have a FoV that I used sometimes but it's definitely debateable. Can't wait to see the Snarble Barb.
Mo, 08/22/2011 - 19:31
#4
if you ever want a piercing
if you ever want a piercing weapon, i'd like to point out blitz needle. i'm not sure how you feel about using a gun, but if you unload both bursts into the vortex, you do good damage without putting yourself in harm's way. unfortunatly the window for charging is too tight for the charge, but i'm just throwing out an idea.
Di, 08/23/2011 - 00:08
#5
the flourish charge might
the flourish charge might catch all of them, at least i've gotten 6 at once on multiple occasions with the charge attack
Di, 08/23/2011 - 01:50
#6
Vortex Sword Combo
Tested it out before
The Vortex works very nicely with other Haze type bombs, the Supernova/Polaris, or if you plan to take one for the team, the Radiant Sun Shards [Don't solo when you do this].
With swords, it works very well with the Cold Iron Vanquisher, a lot more so than the Leviathan unless you're going against a really huge group of enemies.
Tried to test it out on T1 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sNzCJYZa68
Di, 08/23/2011 - 02:11
#7
Zelda
"Elemental:
Voltedge
Shadow:
Acheron
Piercing:
Final Flourish; though I haven't tried out a Piercing weapon with this style yet, so I'm not sure."
since mostly ur using in danger rooms the acheron is pretty much the most important piece
for elemental i doubt itd matter much, the fang of vog has a tiny issue, it doesnt hit very far, so the monsters at the other end of the vortex might not get hit, i wouldnt get the DA its just too slow
for piercing i really doubt any1 wants to use that on devils trojans healers or greavers, for wolvers n chromalisks prolly wont matter as much, i think its a very important sword just to have something with a 180° strike for the fiendish fiends xD
the damage output really goes to waste tho:
-solo saves u tiny bit of time, thers the risk of getting hit, u hav tiny bit of fun with the destruction
-party needs 1)people with very bad dmg output 2)people, who let u place the graviton and dont knock monsters away
Sa, 08/27/2011 - 19:23
#8
I Want to try the " Gravity
I Want to try the " Gravity Swordboom" (lol name)
well im not enought rich to aford UVs so this setup work ?
Volcanic Demo helm---> for Bomb CTR and elemental defence.
Skolver Coat --->for DMG
Thorn Shield --> for DMG
wep:
Glacius/archeos
Grav bomb
Another sword or gun.
With out the CTR swords, the combo is still possible to land ?
Its really too risky ?
and its viable ?
sry for my english =/
So, 08/28/2011 - 00:08
#9
I've been doing a lot of
I've been doing a lot of testing recently and I had some results.
Of the elemental swords, I'm rather assured that the Brandish series is the best there is, note that your choice of status infliction depends on a few things, but I'll argue for the brandish series first.
All my testing was done with the build discussed in my previous post along with:
A DA with CTR low UV.
A FoV with CTR med UV.
Concerning the DA, I found that it releases it's charge attack too slowly and you must immediately back away or shield afterwards. As well I don't even believe it does more damage than the Brandish series for a reason I'll explain later.
Concering the FoV, I found that I wasn't able to spam the charge reliably, noting that I only had half the full bar of fire resist, but I've heard you still take 5 bars with a full bar. Coupled with the fact that this build requires rather specific armor and helmet and I don't want to require UVs for it to work either. Additionally, I found that with the knockback it only hit twice at max on the front targets and this is about 1400 damage from what I was seeing.
Either of the FoV or DA might be workable with exceptional UVs but the Brandish series need no UVs, even without any trinkets or CTR UVs, the charge on a brandish series sword will finish before either vortex bomb finishes. Though you may need to get a feel for how long it takes to charge and release the second it's ready.
Now with the Brandish series there are a few things working for it. Firstly, it's charge attack lunges forward to release the blast, so you don't need to walk right up to the crowd at first. Secondly, it's normal swings are fast enough that after you release the charge you can get off two hits from the combo without difficulty. This means that the whole combo was doing roughly 700+200+400+400 = 1700 damage to front targets.
If you're using the Graviton Vortex, which tbh is generally worse than Electron except in a few scenarios, then the shock or freeze from the brandish series helps to keep the enemies from getting flung out. With the Electron it'll shock some for you and help to stop the fling but additional help is good too. Do remember if you get a significant amount of enemies caught in either then they just jam up on each other and none go anywhere regardless.
I'm pretty much 100% sure that Acheron is better than Gran Faust for this build.
And I've been liking my Barbarous sword, but I'd have to try out Final Flourish to really make a decision.
@raton15:
As you can see from my build my helmet does nothing for the actual strategy except to improve my defenses. I might suggest actually getting Vog cap since it'll help with the follow-up strikes after the charge attack, but a Volcanic Demo Helm doesn't sound awful. Tell me how you find it.
As I implied earlier as well, the Electron Vortex is likely better than the Graviton in most situations. As well, the Voltedge is likely better than the Glacius in most situations, but either work. If I had to choose I'd go Electron Vortex and Glacius if you only want one Krogmo weapon.
I can give you hints and/or tips if you'd like as well.
So, 08/28/2011 - 03:50
#10
I really like this combo,
I really like this combo, it's also a favorite of my guild-mates, as I am always the gunner or bomber, but whatever sword you choose, keep one very important thing in mind, if you are looking to maximize your damage.
Knockback. If I am not mistaken, the Vortex doesn't inflict it's status until the final explosion happens, so if you use, say, a Divine Avenger, and knock your target out of the area, you lose the blast as well as the status infliction. If you are killing them outright, it's not such a big deal, though, my teammates like to use the charge on the Fang of Vog sword.
If you are knocking them out of the blast before the final explosion, which also sends the monsters flying, then you have only succeeded in arranging them for your convenience, and the bomb may be better replaced by a Shivermist Buster?
Either way you run it, it's a very fun and satisfying combination of attacks.
So, 08/28/2011 - 13:43
#11
Glacius / Vortex combo
Velcro - my first Vana run with you opened my eyes to the glacius/vortex combo and I have been optimizing my build for that ever since. My current buildout allows me to kill every mob stuck in it the vortex with 1 glacius charge attack and a single hit without taking damage. I have not found any other combination of weapons that plows thru fsc mobs quicker than this.
Armor - Vog Cap Fire Max, Skolver Coat Fire Medium
Shield - Barb Thorn ele/normal low (to be upgraded soon)
Swords - Glacius CTR Medium, DA CTR High
Trinkets - Dmg Trinket & CTR Trinket
On the offensive side, both Glacius and DA are at CTR Max, Dmg Max & ASI Medium. Defensively, the barb thorn shield breaks easily against vana's mace however vog cap & skolver uv's are sufficient to provide max fire resistance (immune to vana's fire snakes).
I have considered trying the voltedge/electron vortex line but I am not sure if the minimal damage increase is worth the effort. Looking forward to seeing more input from others.
Btw, I have tried DA (Max CTR) and barb thorn blade (Ultra CTR) but have not found either one to be as effective as the Glacius when paired with the vortex.
So, 08/28/2011 - 23:34
#12
@hank11:
I'm pleased to hear that I influenced you. How do you find the ASI anyway? I've been wanting to get a Shadow Max Vog cap so I could have some ASI for the follow-up hits after the charge attack.
By the way, Electron is almost certainly better than Graviton in most cases simply because the Shock keeps them from getting flung out most of the time. I'm currently trying out both the Combuster and Voltedge in various situations to compare it with the Glacius, in conjunction with either the Graviton (against quicksilvers and in JK runs) or Electron (all other times)
Mo, 08/29/2011 - 04:29
#13
works great for me
...
i use graviton vortex
DA
&Acheron
I do have max ctr for the bombs and swords though, and the timing is still slightly tight.
But with max ctr works awesome. Especially in jelly palace since graviton is shadow, acheron is shadow, and you don't run into the taking damage problem listed above like you might vs other mobs.
Also works great in arena room 3. Drop an ash of agni prespawn, put the graviton on top of it, step on the switch and everyone in the party can DA charge that spawn of constructs!!!!! So good.
But with the new trinkets, it could be a lot more feasible to get max ctrs. Demo armor for bomb ctr, trinkets for sword ctr.
Mo, 08/29/2011 - 07:16
#14
@geminidreams: I have not
@geminidreams: I have not been a big fan of ASI when it comes to damage output. I find that dmg and ctr UVs have a greater effect on dps than asi. When playing defensively, I do like to run high ASI with the divine avenger to allow for a 2 swing combo that pushes mobs out of the way. Very safe way to run fsc but by no means the quickest.
By the way, do you find the voltedge or combuster to outdamage the Glacius? How much dmg does the electron vortex do against fsc zombies when it explodes?
Mo, 08/29/2011 - 08:27
#15
Damage
All the brandish lines seem do the same damage, so just have to pick a favorable damage type and status aliment.
From what I've seen the Electron Vortex does identical damage to the Graviton Vortex:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Graviton_Vortex#Damage
And the shock values from Electron Vortex so far match the Voltaic Tempest's shock.
Mo, 08/29/2011 - 11:46
#16
Beep
@jeburk:
The reasons I prefer the Brandish series to the DA are:
- The Brandish series' charge attacks include a small lunge forward as they release the charge attack allowing you to get closer without being closer when you release the charge. The DA's charge attacks, on the other hand, sort of make the user take a step back, or lean back at least, and takes a noticeably longer time to release than the Brandish series' charge attacks.
- Because of the shorter release time and the lunge forward I can often get in two normal hits then shield cancel without taking damage.
- The DA's knockback is also kind of annoying for me when using it against enemies in the Vortex.
Though if it's working for you then that's great.
@hank11:
Naturally because of their status effects dealing damage they'll out-damage the Glacius.
Though I haven't started using the Combuster yet since it's not level 10, I imagine that I'll only use it while using the Electron Vortex since the Electron has the added capacity of keeping enemies trapped with the Shock that the Graviton doesn't.
The Voltedge, however, might be better with teammates. Since the freeze gets broken when an ally attacks it, if an ally attacks the frozen enemies they'll break it and then the enemies would be pushed by the next ally's attack. Though with shock, the flinch that occurs when they get shocked sticks regardless of whether they get hit and they stay still during that shock. So by shocking the group of enemies, ally's attacks don't move the enemies if you time the release of your charge attack accordingly.
As well, I've found that both the Voltedge and Glacius succeed in stopping enemies from getting flung out with shock or freeze. Though most of the time they just die anyway.
Also if I recall correctly the Electron Vortex does about 250 to zombies in FSC. Though the damage isn't what impresses me, merely the shock allowing it to innately stop enemies from being flung.
- - - -
Also for team play, I often find that it's much more effective to try to release your charge attack opposite your teammates. In this way your strike cancels out the knockback of your allies and you 'crunch' the enemies in the Vortex.
One last note, the combo itself sort of gives value to the Poison-style haze bombs. I'm not anything but happy when a teammate places one of those bombs along with my Vortex.
PS. Has anyone here played with multiple Vortex' in the same group? I've seen two go at once and the enemies go kinda crazy. I'd love to see what happens with four Vortex' placed with intersecting suction radii.
Mo, 08/29/2011 - 11:46
#17
Beep
Double post
Di, 08/30/2011 - 01:06
#18
:)
I prefer brandish too!!
I used DA charge attack as an example cause my party is almost always full of DA's and not 5* brandishes lol.
Di, 08/30/2011 - 09:38
#19
Suggestion.
/ ARMOR /
Full VOG CUB set.
/ SWORDS /
Elemental: Divine Avenger
Shadow: Gran Faust
Piercing: Fearless Rigadoon
*S*
Raw
Di, 08/30/2011 - 11:06
#20
@raw:
While DA might be able to be argue for being better than the other choices, namely in the fact that if you time releasing the charge with the shock from Electron then they won't get pushed back. But still, the Brandish series appears better for the combo to me.
The Gran Faust on the other hand is almost certainly worse than Acheron damn wise. Not only does it have the incredibly long charge time requiring near Max CTR but it can leave you cursed which makes its charge attack unreliable.
Fearless Rigadoon seems a big choice since the stun won't last all that long and the damage won't be close to Barbarous or Final Flourish. Also the charge attack might leave you open to attack from enemies in the vortex.
Finally sword damage is far more important than attack speed for this combo. I could see using Skolver coat with a Vog cap, which is what I intend to do eventually, with both having Shadow Max UVs.
Di, 08/30/2011 - 11:54
#21
Hey Velcro, do you ever find
Hey Velcro, do you ever find it difficult to plant the vortex in cramped quarters? From my understanding you need a little bit of breathing room to plant the bomb.
Di, 08/30/2011 - 12:13
#22
@Weedle
There is two ways to get around this problem.
Firstly if you're in a party with someone with some sort of AoE damage. (AoA or the shock haze bomb work well for this, or a Polaris is also good for this) Then if you don't attack the enemies and let them get mad at the guy with the AoE damage then I've found they won't attack you. They're aggro'd on that guy with the AoA and don't mind you charging your Vortex and walking through their ranks. I find I can usually get right deep in with the bomb without an enemy so much as batting an eyelash. Then suddenly the whole pack gets caught up in the Vortex and are shorty obliterated.
Secondly if you can't rely on the aforementioned method then you can abuse the enemy mechanics. I'll take zombies for example. Zombies won't start jumping at you or start breathing fire unless to stand still. They will attack you if you get too close, but what I find is a good trick is to charge up the bomb, then stand still so they start charging up their jump or fire. If they jump, just sidestep them and plant the bomb behind them. If they breathe fire just get as close as possible without getting caught in the breathe and plant it.
Note that if you move directly at them or away from them I think they start attacking.
I'm pretty sure most enemies work in this fashion. I know Devillites won't throw their crap while you're moving around them. Trojans won't do anything but do that power-up shock move if you just keep moving around them. I think most ranged attacks will wait til you've stopped. So it's just a matter of knowing what the enemies will do when you move, then dodge what you know and expect and plant the bomb during their attack animation.
Though if you're in really cramped situations then your best bet is to have some sort of knockback either on you or an ally. (A nitronome will give you more than enough time to charge the bomb) With the Glacius you can also try to freeze the enemies and give yourself time to charge. Beyond that, the only other option is to get CTR on the bomb and/or learn how to narrowly avoid attacks.
PS. One particularly annoying enemy to use the Vortex against are Gremlins. Those guys will throw wrenches at you while in the Vortex as you move in to attack them, so anticipate that and sidestep before the attack!
Di, 08/30/2011 - 12:24
#23
Graviton Catilizer combo
although this isnt useing a sword,the graviton and catilizer (shadow dmg side of the line) is realy effective against mobs.although i havent tried it soloing,because i dont have a grav.the graviton pulls the mobs together and you can hit them with a couple charge shots from the cat. and blow them up.this method also lets you back away from attacks.
Di, 08/30/2011 - 19:21
#24
When you lunge forward with
When you lunge forward with the Brandish charge, the hit range of the sword stays behind as if you didn't move. All swords work this way with normal hits (which is one of the less quoted reasons why Winmillion is so bad), but the Calibur/Vog charge doesn't have this problem.
So, 09/04/2011 - 04:57
#25
Heya, so I'm making an
Heya, so I'm making an Electron Vortex. I'm planning on getting a Brandish and getting max CTR (via various trinkets and whatnot). What I am having difficulty deciding is which path to take. I think I want to go with one of the elemental Brandishes to complement the elemental of the bomb. So here are a few questions:
Does the freeze from the Glacius charge become nullified when the vortex expires (ie the monsters still get flung out if they are not shocked)? Or does the freeze from the charge help prevent monsters getting flung out?
If the freeze is indeed useless, would you recommend going for the Voltedge even though the Electron Vortex already does shock?
Any comments on Combuster?
So, 09/04/2011 - 06:17
#26
I use this build and I love
I use this build and I love it. This is my current setup (I have everything but the 5* Barbarous stuff):
Swords: Glacius, Acheron, Barbarous Thorn Blade
Bomb: Electron Vortex
Shields: Grey Owlite Shield, Barbarous Thorn Shield
Armor: Vog Cub Set
Trinkets: CTR Med, Dmg Med
To answer a few questions raised in the thread:
* The freeze from Glacius breaks when the shock from the Vortex kicks in. However, you can sometimes let off a Glacius charge AFTER they are initially shocked (if you time it right) and they will freeze without breaking setting you up for another attack.
* Although the shock breaking the Glacius freeze most of the time, the Glacius is still the better overall Brandish as it is useful for crowd control on its own.
* Combuster is a great choice to pair it up with EV but it becomes less useful in FSC.
* I can't remember the damage the EV does on Slags in FSC but to me it feels insignificant compared to getting them shocked in terms of crowd control.
* You can let off chains of Electron Vortices for pure crowd control while the rest of your team beats up the crowd. This works great for me in arenas with Alpha Wolvers.
* It REALLY helps to know where and when monsters will spawn in arenas and FSC to let off timed EVs to wipe crowds quickly. For example, in round 3 in arena keep track of the spawn so you can let off EVs as soon as the last wave of monsters spawn. Doing so will group the spawn together making it easier to get around the room rather than having them go in all different directions.
Mo, 09/05/2011 - 08:58
#27
Beep!
@Milkman797:
The decision of paring the elemental damage from the Electron and the elemental version of a brandish is rather irrelevant. The reason it is generally regarded that Electron is better than Graviton is because of the Shock which aid the bomb by -sometimes- shocking the enemies and thus preventing them from being flung away. To be perfectly honest I'd say if you go for the combo and enjoy doing it, then getting both the Acheron and one of the elemental Brandishes should be fine. Both Jellies and Gremlins, both types weak to Shadow, get mashed by the combo as well. Same with Undead and Constructs for the most part.
To expound on Innoruuk's answer even though the freeze does get broken at the end of the Vortex, it will still prevent monsters from getting flung out. Similarly it may also help to keep monsters kept in the Vortex. Since if an ally comes up with Leviathan Blade then your freeze will help keep the monsters there.
However shock also prevents monsters from moving during the time they flinch and doesn't get broken from the last attack and rather just expires after a second or so. In my experience Glacius is generally the safer approach but I would likely recommend the Voltedge as the Brandish of choice between the two.
Concerning Combuster. The Electron Vortex is fairly good at keeping the enemies locked just by itself. But it isn't as guaranteed as pairing it with either of the other brandishes. However it is clearly the best offensively. One thing though, is if you often group with the same people and they become used to your Vortex and combo it with you then the fire and shock may not even be necessary. With the proper tactics 'most' waves get destroyed by the end of the Vortex.
If you're wondering what the preferred tactics are then it's generally for party members to have the greatest angle between each other. So if you have 2 party members then having one on both sides. If you have 3 party members then having one on the corners of a theoretical triangle with the Vortex in the circle. If you have 4 party members then having one on each corner of a diamond with the Vortex in the middle. Barring that, having party members on opposite sides of each other usually works fine enough. This is because the knockback of party members from one side gets negated by the knockback of party members on the opposite side and the monsters get crushed and often receive the full damage from all party member's charge attacks.
And from my experience in FSC in 4 person parties, with Max Damage on swords, my Glacius/Voltedge/Combuster does about 700 on the initial charge attack hit, then 200 per explosion, and about 400 then 500 (I'll explain why the 500 later). Afterwards monsters, even in a 4-person party generally only need one or two strikes to fell. So you can imagine what 4 players worth of charge attacks would do to most monsters.
- - - - -
Some recent findings.
I have stated earlier that attacking twice after the initial charge attack hit is often perfectly safe. I have found that if you attack immediately after the charge attack, the charge attack counts as the first hit in the combo and subsequently the two attacks I've spoken of have actually been the second and third strikes in the sword's normal combo. Thus the two strikes finish off with the third strike in the combo which causes most monsters to stop their attacks. In addition to dealing more damage than I initially thought, finishing with two strikes will more than likely leave you safe enough to back away because the monsters have just received your third strike.
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 08:55
#28
Bump.
This thread is so helpful and useful, I think it needs a bump.
If Velcro doesn't get to the door then I'll try to answer some questions as well, now that I'm a vortex bomber.
Live again thread!
Cheers,
~W
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 09:54
#29
holy (censored)!
did u find this thread on page 567964214569865^443321179064332 or something?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!
anyways, a really useful strategy is to drop a smb and then drop the vortex on top of that.
that way, the enemys will all be bunched together AND frozen.
this results in
a) crowd control, and
b) now u can do all 3 or 4 hits of the levi or fovs charge
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 11:47
#30
Now I wonder what the effects
Now I wonder what the effects of Catalyzer of sorts would have in combination with one of these vortex bombs. With a large group of enemies packed into a tight space paired with the ability of the Catalyzer to release detonation charges on multiple targets (with 0 knockback) taking advantage of the slow projectile speed canceled by the immobilization of the enemies... A bit longer but -BOOM!
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 12:15
#31
Yes the mist bombs are
Yes the mist bombs are fantastic in conjunction with the Vortex bombs. The shock and poison ones are probably my favorite.
And the only complaint concerning the Catalyzers would be the slow-ness of putting the combo together. In the time it would take to get a big boom out of it I could have probably easily killed all the enemies with a Brandish style weapon.
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 12:21
#32
@Velcro
I suppose you are correct (thus my "a bit longer"). Therefore, it provides the safer, but much longer alternative to a sword (safer because dodging tends to be easier when at a fair distance).
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 14:59
#33
Mind you I'm certainly not
Mind you I'm certainly not discrediting it for being a totally wicked way to end a group of mobs. =p
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 17:43
#34
@Velcro's above post
Writing to me Velcro? I understand completely. No offense taken.
Mo, 11/14/2011 - 18:03
#35
I use e- quite a bit.
Fun tricks with e-/graviton:
-RSS can be set off if you have CTR before the gravity sets in, and it can hit everything 8ish times, dealing thousands regardless of type of enemy.(HARD TO PULL OFF)
-FoV can be used to set crowds of enemys on fire/deal a ton of damage, with its charge, though you'll want status pills for this.
-The vortex can be used to trap enemys within its gravity repeatedly, and, if you're careful, you can win easily. (Any other bomb combined is amazing)
-(Gran) Faust attacks can be used to curse huge crowds of enemys, as well as deal significant damage, while DA attacks can be used to deal a bit of damage.
-Enemys can be shivermisted for more time to charge/aim.
-Brandish lines can be used to further status enemys.
-Sudaruska and Triglav can be used effectively to deal massive normal damage, which is good for fighting 3-4 different kinds of enemys, and will result in higher DPS than when using an elemental/shadow/piercing weapon.
Of course, having a team mate help you with their weapon is even better... regardless of what they brought, they'll be able to do a ton while you ready up the next bomb to trap enemys... unless they're a pure gunner, which doesn't do as much on the charge (except maybe magnus line?).
Do, 11/17/2011 - 21:09
#36
I admit I didn't read much of
I admit I didn't read much of this thread, so it may have been already mentioned, but with a slow sword, slashes will greatly out-damage charge attacks (and out-damage charges of faster weapons) when combined with a vortex vs. many enemies.
Lately I've been running two bomb CTR trinkets with full Snarbolax and BTS with a DA and Electron Vortex in FSC. I have no need to charge up my sword and can still do roughly 1500 damage to everything in the vortex before it discharges (a full combo and a first slash). Then, the vortex usually shocks the slags so they're still in the same place and I can keep swinging for even more damage.
Compare this to a Brandish, which, even if you get a charge off in time, you'll get MAYBE 800 damage to everything since its regular slashes will never hit all enemies (and certainly won't stunlock all of them like DA will). DA/GF's charge attack is also inferior because they take a long time to execute, only hit the front row with the main attack, and will either push enemies out of vortex range or suffer in damage if the enemies are shocked in place.
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 06:21
#37
Yeah, I always like when
Yeah, I always like when someone brings those bombs to FSC. I try to stay close to them.
But more important thing is for the party to follow the bomber's lead. I have seen many times when someone used a DA charge at the same time the bomb was planted making the bomb useless. With one person planting those bombs and 2 'waiting' for monsters to be caught and then using charge attacks will help most of the rooms to be cleared really fast. Just imagine that each of your sword charge is doing over 1000 damage for 4-5 monsters, that is about 5000 monsterDamages. Now if there are 12 monsters with 1500 hp each = 18000 monsterHps and 2 people in your party doing 2*5000 monsterDamages, just using two electron vortex charges is enough to kill over 90% of monsters.
I also think that brandish lines charge by itself is inferior to DA (usually with brandish charge you can't hit many monsters and you are vulnerable if complete full combo: charge and 2 hits), but with electron/graviton vortexes brandish line becomes better than DA. Now I use DA since I rarely see someone carrying that bomb. FoV is another option especially if you manage to land all 4 hits.
@Glowing-Ember
Full brandish combo is = charge + 2 hits + 200 per explosion about 1800 damage in t3(for zombies and constructs) . Full combo won't hit all monsters but might hit about 3-4 monsters, others will take about charge + 1 explosion = 1100 damage. You are also correct that DA's normal swings might out damage its charge attack = which I guess is lower than 1100. In my opinion 1500 damage is a good number too.
@Velcro
Nice video :P.
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 08:21
#38
Just a thought but has anyone
Just a thought but has anyone tried doing a CExplosion inside of a vortex?
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 08:59
#39
My turn.
It's all about danger, and damage. If the DA or GF doesn't hit all the enemies, then you're vulnerable.
A even more common way is if there are some enemies that didn't get sucked in.
In places with large rooms like FSC, likely a few zombies will be just outside the vortex and not be sucked in.
Thus leaving you extremely vulnerable.
The brandish doesn't do that.
With your damage max, look at it this way with two sword charge time reduction trinkets instead of bomb ones.
We're in FSC D26 or so here.
Bomb deploys, (+6) Brandish charge deals 850 damage + 150 x 3 explosions + 1 swing after + bomb explosion = 1881 damage.
I've partied plenty enough with Velcro to see the stats.
+6 +850 +150 +150 +150 +350 +225 =1881. (Forgive me if I mess up on a couple things I woke up recently.)
6 is the bomb deploy, 850 is the charge, 450 are the explosions, 350 is the swing after, 225 is the bomb exploding.
You do of course, have to give up the trinkets, but just showing that a brandish does and will out DPS a large sword.
Let's not even talk about more safety and swings after the vortex has shocked them.
Cheers,
~W
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 09:18
#40
Ranger you forgot that you
Ranger you forgot that you can do two swings after you release the charge. 'And' the second swing is actually the third swing of the normal combo so it knocks down some enemies or interrupts them.
But to be honest if you really wanted straight damage. You'd use a FoV and get 'really' good at releasing the charge just as the Electron Vortex finished. The shock would keep them stuck there and make them receive a ton from the FoV. The problem with this strategy is it's heavily UV dependent. Firstly you want sword damage max so that could be BTS with 2 5* damage trinkets. Then you'd need fire resistance, so Vog does well there. But then you also want CTR UVs on the Vog to perform it reliably.
With a Brandish, you don't need anything to do the combo safely. Just level 10 Brandish and Vortex. The Brandish can complete its charge in the time it takes the Vortex to do its thing.
As well the Brandish is just tons safer by its mechanics alone. The charge attack involves a lunge forward along that means you don't need to be right next to the Vortex when you release the charge attack. Secondly the charge attack counts, as I said earlier, for the first hit in the normal combo so spamming attack after gets you those two extra attacks with the last acting to interrupt enemies.
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 09:21
#41
Yeah,
Yeah, I actually didn't forget about those, I just decided that they might call it foul play.
But yeah, everything you posted is correct.
Cheers,
~W
Fr, 11/18/2011 - 12:54
#42
@Rangerwill I doubt that all
@Rangerwill
I doubt that all 3 explosions hit the target. Most probably only first explosion hits, so it is like (first swing) + explosion + (2ndswing) +(3rd swing).
In FSC brandish line 'without' electron/graviton vortex is inferior to DA, IMO. Try both and you will see the difference. Why? because if you use only the charge then you can't do much damage. If you try charge + 2swings then your 3rd swing won't touch the monsters from sides, on the contrary DA's swing takes care of all the zombies from front and from both sides.
PS: Sure for single enemy brandish line is a clear winner.
So, 12/04/2011 - 06:36
#43
in that case..
What should i get first? the vortex or the brandish? also what are the best possible combinations of vortex+brandish of this great build? :)
So, 12/04/2011 - 11:50
#44
@Kombatkamote
Totally get the vortex first. It gains a couple huge buffs.
The first one is quite huge and important. The Vortex gets a much bigger AoA. (It can suck in enemies from longer distances)
Though it looks like it's the same, it isn't and can pull much further then the Vortex's radius says.
Second, most important, is that you gain time. The bomb doesn't explode until a second later. (A second is a long time in SK)
It may not seem like it from reading it, but the second one is a enormous change. Vortex definitely first.
The Brandish, while is may look cooler and gain a extra explosion and some extra damage, is worth upgrading.
Before the Vortex?
No.
@Bekjan Several times two explosions has hit the monsters.
So, 12/04/2011 - 11:51
#45
As far as which Vortex to
As far as which Vortex to get, Electron Vortex is the best, regardless of situation.
In my opinion I prefer Glacius since freezing them lets me set up a Vortex easily. Besides that Voltedge can be good too because they'll be clumped. Combuster could be good, but you might find that you simply kill them too quickly for the fire to do much. Plus, FSC.
So in my opinion the best for those are Electron Vortex, Glacius, Acheron.
So, 12/04/2011 - 12:49
#46
Oops.
It appears a forgot your second question. Velcro almost sniped me.
Though Glacius probably is best, if you have some Krogmo Coins just sitting around, then Voltedge is best.
Free recipes! The difference between the two aren't huge. If you have the coins like I did, then go Voltedge.
(Unless you're filthy stinkin rich, of course. ;D)
Mo, 12/05/2011 - 02:02
#47
thanks guys
will definitely get electron vortex first. :) then a glacius second, since i'm struggling as hell. :) thanks for the tips guys. :)
Di, 12/27/2011 - 01:31
#48
new plan
Will a graviton vortex with a voltedge be awesome? :) since i think electron vortex + voltedge is too redundant.
Mi, 12/28/2011 - 03:11
#49
That works too. The only
That works too. The only thing you need to watch out for is that if you miss anything with your voltedge the graviton will toss it across the map.
Mi, 12/28/2011 - 10:31
#50
Hmm.
I'll go with Electron vortex with Voltedge. :) since the recipes are free.. :D
You loose too many hp doing both. It can be great for clearing out easy lvls with many enemies - if you can afford to waste some HP it can be fun & it can be fast.
But if you're in a more dangerous area, you're usually better of letting the bomber do the bombing. With max ctr, those bombs are *just* fast enough to keep mobs under control without getting hit (most of the time) if you don't do anything else (like poking a sword into stuff).
Swordies on the other hand often have a hard enough time harvesting that sweet big cloud of huge glowing numbers without wasting ridiculous amounts of HP, too ("Come on, 6 hits at once, I CAN DO another swing before they hit me.... not D:" xD). And that *without* them being effectively shield-less + slow-moving (as an efficient bomb+sword timing does require most of the time).
The most fun combination of sword charges to fire into a vortex usually is DA + GF + that barb-snarb-thing, btw. But you absolutely need two players to play that game or it's just not "fluid" enough to be fun & effective.