By "Free" crystal energy I mean follow the trend of the completion of surveys through companies such as offerpal and super rewards for crystal energy, like most publishers have been doing with their games.
These surveys tend to be traps for culling e-mails and sending spam to players. I can't endorse putting this in Spiral Knights.
I'm more interested in your reasons for not buying energy. Too expensive (What would you pay for CE if you had your choice)? Too difficult (ie, you do not have a credit card, your parents will not assist you)? Understanding the root of the problem is critical to finding the solution.
I am strongly against that kind of "free" CE, because you're actually paying for it with your data---and you're compromising your security while doing so. Often those systems don't even work because of technical difficulties, so I really think it would cause more headaches than it would soothe.
If players could earn a non-tradable ME tank for trying another OOO game, or received a bonus ME tank for buying even a small amount of CE, I think that would make CE much more appealing.
Spiral Knights isn't a Korean MMO! I would rather spend 3200c for 100CE instead if I don't want to pay for CE with real money! Those survey things make me sick! I despise against them! *HURL!* >=o
You guys are acting like I want to get the other payment methods removed.
If you don't know how to do these types of surveys and have some paranoia that because you do a simple ad survey your security gets compromised you wouldn't be -forced-to use this method of payment.
Just because I suggested this doesn't mean I think prices are unfair/i can't afford ce. I think the prices are fine.
This is just another payment method that most (if not all) major game publishers use as it generates high amounts of income. You just have to put a little bit of effort forth.
Due to the age range possible in spiral knights I have to full and whole heartedly agree with Providence.
The "free" points surveys are all Cons and the "install" this and get free points are even worse, they lead to damaged operating systems and even comprised security.
RealTalk, no one suggested that you wanted the other payment methods removed.
We are just concerned that, based on the kinds of...stupid...questions people keep asking in the Technical Support section and other places, not everyone would know how to complete the surveys safely. Like Soltanis said, we have a lot of young players who are playing both with and without parental permission, and I don't really think we should be encouraging to take those surveys. Most of said surveys DO ask for subscriptions, credit card information, REAL personal information, they ask you to install things on your computer...
I just honestly think it would create a lot more problems. Do you really want to see thirty forum threads that all say:
"i judst install toolbar bc survy ask and now theres popups and i dint get free ce like it said SK YOU NEED FIX THIS NOW!!!!!!!!"
I am strongly against this idea. The target audience of Spiral Knights is mainly younger children. When these children install random software trials on their parents' computer, order stuff to their house, or make a text that puts $5 on their monthly bill, they're going to get grounded off the computer. Almost all surveys target adults anyways, so for children to complete them, they would have to lie about their age, which nullifies the purpose of the survey, and also puts themselves in danger. If you really want to do surveys, do them yourself, get cash in our Paypal, and buy energy with that.
However, I would support the idea of getting crystal energy through community events like fanart and comic competitions.
Any kid with a cell phone that can text can also abuse the pay by SMS payment and then have charge backs resulting by parents not wanting to pay the bills.
Also, I didn't say that people were saying I wanted to remove the other payment systems, they were -ACTING- like it. Acting isn't saying.
Regardless if the player base is against this idea, if the company suddenly decides they want to generate more revenue, not to mention that its a form of competing with gold-selling companies when they decide to start selling crowns for money, they'll add it in anyway.
Also, theres an age -RANGE- not everybody is 11 years old and will fall for false advertising. You simply don't know what you're talking about or were too lazy to ever do these surveys if you think that all they do is ask you to install stuff.
With Tumble, it goes back to my previous statement about the SMS payment. No young kid would sit through a survey when they could just enter their number and charge OVER $5 for CE.
Also, doing the mobile phone surveys is silly anyway. Nobody in their right mind would participate in those.
Excuse me but I have to say I do not agree with a majority of you, and I can’t talk for the player base as a whole when I speak. But I would like to say I for 1 would definitely participate in surveys for in-game currency, such as CE, and I know allot of people who would too, and yes I agree with "Real Talk" when he says not all players on here are 11years old, but at the same time not all people can afford there bills and extra money every month for games such as these, and if they do have money, they might want to spend it on other things than just games. This in fact helps in 2 ways
The first is that people will not find other ways to gain CE. Such as the usage of hacks or cheats to acquire it.
The second is that people who cant afforded it either by not being able to pay for it because they cannot pay themselves or because they don’t have the will to spend un-necessary money.
Also the money that people pay is the same that the survey company pays, which is why you don’t get as much from certain surveys due to the lack of value where as other ones pay more such as Netflix vs. quizmonkey.com
Three Rings Dose already do this through 2 games that I know of and at one point did 3 that I knew of. The first being puzzle pirates, the second being whirled and the third was bang howdy before they changed the currency from gold to subscription base.
And further more they can actually benefit from this without paying for anything due to it’s a pay by completion subscription base. This is a program designed for people who do not have the time or energy to pay for such products. and or want even more from what they can pay already, there is no downfall that I can see and if you come up with one that is a legitimate problem with this with a little bit of evidence to back your side up let me know and I’ll gladly listen.
...many of those things you fill out on for Facebook and F2P games are scams. Years ago Zynga (Mafia Wars, Farmville, Cityville) was criticized for ripping off players in exchange for in-game currency. They backed off using scams for a while, but since then have continued to introduce blatant scams along with legitimate advertising. It is the scams that make the most money for companies, so naturally that is what they are drawn toward.
@ajaym40 I consider this a futile attempt to disguise a "bump". You must have a big gut to try and raise a "dead thread".
Maybe let ppl get mist tanks for completing achievments or completing a certain amount of lvls. Or have optional, super hard levels where your sole goal is to get them. Something that's a real challenge but not compromising. Or add a pvp and have it as a reward/wager.
for the people who think it will be a scam with the email, there will always be 10 minute mail waiting for you to use!
This dosen't seem like a good idea. I've read each comment, and have to say that that wouldn't work out well. That brings more CE into the game, and that will tank the CE selling price untill nobody want's to buy it with real money. This will cause them to have to make more surveys, but there arent THAT many out there, so you get to watch ingame add's while you wait! What's this, now we have to pay 20 bucks for T3 clearance! It just seems like incorporating things from other companies turns this into much more of a buissness than people think it is. On top of that, I heard somewhere that it's "too hard to buy CE with real money" It's not. Just get a gamer card, the red thing with the guy who has fire heir on it. You can use it to purchase 10 or 20 dollars worth of CE. It's like buying a lego fire truck or COD, oyu just pick it up, give it to a casheir, pay the money, use it on your computer. easy peasy, d0gr0ck told me this a long while ago.
I have to say, I have experience with those Free Offers from the game I played before. They worked pretty well, usualy no scams but valid offers.
Game economy hasn't crashed, the developers of that game weren't losing money... nothing negative happened. They (the company) could even afford to give out monthly gem codes for free (gems were the currency bought with real money).
Of course those have to be 'trusted' services and the amount of energy gained via those offers has to be small and stuff... but I'm sure they would be able to figure things out to make it work just right.
I am a bit surprised how most of you are so hostile towards this idea... guess you maybe have bad experience with similar things.
Also you keep argumenting on almost every idea with "in-game market would crash / it would ruin the whole energy thingy". TBH I don't think this would ever happen.
I'm not saying those free offers are a "must-have" and I don't care because those things never work in my country, I'm just saying that I have good experience with them.
The game economy is great, I'm not shure if you meant that i said it wasn't. I just mean that since we don't need them, like you said, then why risk it? I guess i listed a worse-case-cenario in my post, but you listed a best case one. I just don't think any change in this department will be that essential or halpeful, and the possiblity of a bad outvome keeps it from being worth it. Plus, if it didn't work, it would be hard to take out of the system quickly.
true, the ecomany would be really bad if it was CE, but mabe it can be like, a mist tank, or mini mist tank and maybe 2 or 3 CE once in a whi;e
ME should be able to hold more than 100 or should overflow into CE because if you don't play for a week your losing crowns if it stays 100 ME. 100 ME regenerates everyday which equals roughly a tier and a half run which is probably 6000 crowns or more. ME should hold the same amount as CE so players don't feel like their being cheated for not playing for some time. Another option is keeping ME at 100 but letting it overflow into CE. CE doesn't regenerate, this only happens when ME is at 100 that regenerates into CE. It only happens ME is full not at 99 but 100. PLEASE take my ideas into consideration, I think paying and non-paying players would benefit. Add me: Starburster - I play until I run out of energy or when I want to save energy.
I find this game funny to play, like most of you, but as most of you I'm so frustrated when my mist tank gets empty.
I would like to point that the whole problem of CE is the way you get it :
- You buy it for real money, and I believed that the price are very very high regarding to the fact that everything you do in this game cost energy (gates, crafting, etc ...) (2-3$ for 750CE)
- The only way to get energy for free is to buy it for crowns to other players
- The only way to introduce more energy in the world of SK is to buy it for real money ...
Don't you find there is a problem in this system ? There is no way to "create" CE for free ...
I read a lot of things through the forums and I find some good ideas :
- Lower gates energy prices, crafting energy costs, etc ...
- Add a way to have CE for free, like buying it for crowns but not between players (prices will be always the same)
- (Best idea in my opinion) Add a new resource (or use a existing resource like tokens) for : choose on of the next option
. Crafting, opening gates in depth, activating robots, etc ...
. Going into the clockwork
This new resource must be free to get of course.
- Fix the price of CE around 20$ to get full stuffed in 5stars (*****)
The carrying out of surveys etc. to gain in-game currency comes with many security risks. I know of people whose personal data has been compromised in other games using this method.
For those of you who think it's not risky, well you might be more rigorous than a young kid, but the fact is kids play this game, and kids tend to act less responsibly, it's human nature!
That point aside:
F2P means free-to-play. We all know that. But we also know that these types of games are free to play to a point, and to go further or play longer or to get premium items you have to pay. They HAVE to make their money somehow, don't they?
If you want to get everything out of the game there is to get, then you HAVE to treat the game as if you actually purchased it in your local gamestore, and spend say $30 on CE. Why is it such a big deal if ultimately Three Rings are selling a game just like anyone else, but the payment methods are different?
If you are clever you can do tier2 runs such as Jelly Palace and spend around 100CE, but you gain around 5k crowns back if not more. Now even if the crowns you gain mean you only break even on the CE you spent (which if you do it right that's the MINIMUM you get), you will have collected mats you can sell in the AH, AND your mist counter is always gradually recuperating itself.
People who say they run out of energy and have to stop playing are not being careful with their resources, and need to spend more time thinking how they can lengthen their F2P time and progress, for instance do NOT pay CE to res if you are living on the mist-tank alone, slow down and play more conservatively; the mobs aren't going anywhere.
There is absolutely no need for Three rings to incorporate such CE-obtaining methods as described in the original post.
I think you don't really understand why people are whining (or whatever).
The problem of this game is that you can't play as much as you want for free, that's why this energy system sucks. In the other F2P games you just pay for exclusive content as special items. For me this game is just a whole scam, and three ring earn a lot of money on players without doing awesome stuff (lots of bugs, not balanced items, not much items ...).
I'm not against the fact that SK aim is to make money, but the system must change if three rings wants to keep players playing their game.
few things may happen when FREE CE appear, everyone can ear alot of crowns, everyone can wear a full set of items ( sword, armor, helm, shield, EVERYTHING 5-star) u will see alot 5-star-full-set-player around around the places, dungeons, towns, u start to feel bored, sad when everyone can wear it within a day run dungeon, when u have to work weeks, months for that. everyone can quickly get a 5 star items just in a day.
then what is the point of FREE CE. everyone can e strong? RICH? or having more time to play.
u have 100 ME every 24 hours.
u can pay for CE, what is the problem? no credit? parents won't let ya, or the prices are TOO HIGHT? don't tell me u can't even ask ur parents for 3 DOLLARs, if u are 16+, LUNCH at school, save 3 DOLLARs at day won't be hard. just don't buy snack, and juice from darn machine. thirsty bring ur own water from home. and u can save few DOLLARs a day. and within a week, u can have 3500 CE without having problem. eating snack just making ur fat. save it for other things.
youcan search on youtube and search how do u get free energy or crowns u search anything u want to search so do thta and there u go walaa
those are fake energy and crown generators and will give your computer a virus, hack your account, and get you banned. also im pretty sure there illegal :o
they say "wait 5 minutes!" or something, then they spam you with emails and they hack your accounts. NEVER USE THEM
i think energy is way to expensive.. if i haveto pay more for this game than i would any other normal game in order to enjoy it then thats just dumb.. like i think that the max you should havto pay to get lvl 5 items should be around 40 bucks.. i mean these free to play games for gods sake id rather pay 60 bucks to buy the game or like 2 bucks a month to play it would be cheeper i think that f2p is a scam cause you guys end up making way more money than pay to play services. also i dont buy energy to make my gear anyway but i have been forced to buy energy because its now pretty much impossible or just Extreemly and rediculusly high priced and time consuming to not pay to play because of the price of 100 ce in crowns i mean if somone wanted to start playing you cant even keep playing until you reach tier 2 because you dont make enuf crowns to buy energy with the amount of energy you get.. for eg. 100 energy = around 3500 crowns (at tier 1) so how the FRIG are you suppos to play without buying energy i ask you this ?!?!?!?!?!?! its a little bit rediculus and seems like a massive moneygrab to me even tho i really like the game i think the price to enjoy the game is WAY WAY WAY to high
also i agree with the statement if you are going to charge so much for us to play then please make MORE CONTENT FASTER!!!! like there are not enuf good items not enuf bosses if im going to pay you money than why arent you making me more exciting end game content!!!! THERE IS ONLY 1 END GAME BOSS WTF IS THAT SERIUSLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?
u start slowly thats how, we all started as a newb to the game at some point and we worked through the hardships of starting. i begin with getting 2*gear which took about 2-4 days then started to try to get to t2, from there i learned that the boss stratum has more of a pay out in crowns
about your last post
YOU DOLT, OOO is a smaller company than others like Blizzard that can't roll out content at THAT kind of speed. cool your jets or quit the game for a few months
they are beta testing new content as we speak. i hear it's a revamped Snarby and Vana suited for T3 elite players
This would work a thousand times better IMO
1 time charge of 60-80 dollars = makes it so that energy doesnt exist in your game anymore.. yo dont need it for anything and you cant get it ither
micro transaction of the same prices you have now EXCEPT they would sell you CROWNS instead of energy!!!
thios is what you should have done.. to bad you guys are greedy (im not sayin greedy for charging cause we all know you havto make money cause you made an amazing game) BUT GREEDY FOR SETTING IT UP THE WAY YOU DID!!!!!!!!
this would make it so that if you payed the one time fee it would be like buying the game and you could run as many levels as you wanted.. collect your materials and make your items like a normal game.. and then for people who dont want to grind for their crowns could also buy it or if people didnt want to pay the full 80 dollars they could just buy energy with the crowns they purchased
When i started playing 100 energy was 3500 crowns meaning that i was able to keep on playing as long as i wanted from day 1 and now that all my friends are getting into the game the energy costs twice as much and i am having to give them energy just so that i can play with them and have fun... im not talking about me starting.. ive been playing this game since the beta and i dont care about revamped bosses these people are charging more money off their customers than blizzard makes off theirs so hire more people and make me more bosses
if they are gunna charge me prices like that i dont care if they are a smaller company then they are just charging to much and not giving enuf back for what they have charged.. its as simple as that dood and i love this game but i cannot defend the stupid price of stuiff in the game its borderline rediculus
ALSO when youve played since the BETA and youve only really gotten 2 new bosses (AND BOTH OF THEM ARENT END GAME BOSSES ITHER!!!!!!!!) THATS LIKE A YEAR AND 1 TIER 1 BOSS (USELESS TO ME NO FUN ATALL ONLY GOOD FOR HIS SHIELD) (sory caps lock is my vent button) and a pretty decent tier 2 boss.. but where the new END GAME boss for all of us that have been playing for a year and are waiting for NEW CHALLENGING STUFF TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can only run VANA so many times befor you have no gear left that you want and have all the best stuff in the game anyways and the fight is so annoying AFTER ONEHUNDRED TIMES AND YOU CAN SOLO HIM... Then you realize why the [frag] am i paying for and playing this game.. where is the more content that was promised.. and ya pvp is great but i want new bossfights and not tier 1 fights ither
p.s. a new snarby would be awesome if it was for T3 and all i saying is that ya you can say oo the company is too small and that i should quit playing or a few months.. but if i pay 45 bucks for somthing i expect more than what i am getting dude and thats that. and i would glady pay more if i hadto but wheres the content to prove to me that i should and will be rewarded with new content?
and when i compare this to other f2p games that give ALOT and i mean A L O T more content like allods for eg. the price of this game really seems mighty steep
this farce has gone on long enough i would like to know how you know they make more money than blizzard?
you made the conscious choice to pay into the game, it's your own damn fault not OOO's, they are still working on the game. also a one time charge for a game isn't Free to Play IT'S Buy to Play. "oh wow i paid 45 bucks and suddenly i am entitled to content THAT MAY NOT EXIST YET". fail logic is fail
They did a subscription server with Puzzle Pirates that waves all doubloon fees in the game. In order to prevent the game economy from descending into chaos, they separated the subscription and doubloon players into 2 completely separate economies.
For SK, if the subscription system your suggesting was implemented into the current economy, the entire market would literally collapse. The level of integration CE has in the system directly affects the prices on everything except materials (which has become a commodities market). Remove all CE costs, and the remaining crown costs on everything NPC related suddenly becomes trivial. The massive supply of crowns brought in by sub players would inflate it insanely, mat and gear prices would sky rocket, CE prices would sky rocket, and the ones that wouldn't be able to cope would the CE dependent players. That is exactly why they separated the economies in puzzle pirates.
And if your gonna blame anyone for CE/cr prices, you better look in the mirror. OOO only facilitates what we can spend CE on, but trade prices and rate of consumption are completely defined by players. If CE trade prices were only 2kcr per 100CE, the cost of everything would seem very low. 16k to craft a 5* item, 80k to unbind an item (still seems kind high), slot upgrades for 5k, and you could blow a lot more CE on ressing and still come out with money to spare. If you want CE to be cheaper, you need to convince the entire player base that CE is a lot less valuable then we give it credit for.
..many of those things you fill out on for Facebook and F2P games are scams...
Yup. A couple games I used to play tried using the companies that handle these offers... they removed them a couple days later after all the feedback & what happened to people who did the "free" stuff, and posted a giant apology letter on their forums.
So I'm just going to put this here... for those of you who think it's a great idea... why would someone pay you (or OOO) $1 for you to fill out a super short survey? This works IRL for useful marketing insights, but here you're just a computer & not what a real survey company is looking for. You're not even a useful lead for marketers trying to sell things.
Seeing how the CE prices are unstable (it increases about 100 cr every day at this point) I'll take it. I'm not paying 7000 cr for 100 CE. It's better to just buy you're 4-star items off the market since you need about....56000 cr plus however many it takes to create a 5-star item. I'd rather answer a survey than the crap I'm getting now :P
Even if implement do you think they'll give tons of energy for free?
It'd be bad for them if they give you more then 2ce a day.
These kind of offers/surveys may give OOO a lot of money, as these instead of giving YOU the money that they should give you they would, for example, buy CE with it... which is, in short, "winning money and spending it in OOO". If I was OOO and was looking for more money to get (they do as last updates show) I would be all over it and accept this suggestion. Good one TC, a +1 absolutely from my part.
I do not support this one.
These kinds of offers pay out rarely, as over 90% of the time you won't be in the "target group" for the survey. Seeing as a rather large group of the players on the game are kids (the people playing jumps during weekends and when kids start getting out of school) that means that an even smaller number then usual would qualify for them.
Hiya! Do you have a young child? "Yes" What age is the child? "6" We're sorry but you do not qualify for this survey, thank you for wasting your time. (Survey on diaper brands.)
They also end up spamming your email for all eternity. Oh, or my personal favorite, you have to download a program/game/toolbar that is riddled with enough spyware to make Ad-Adware go into cardiac arrest.
Well maybe the administration could add some features as where we could get a energy-free weekend of unlimited play, or maybe we get an hour of energy free gameplay. (Monday, Wednesdays, or Fridays would prob be the days people could get on the most besides the weekends.)
I must admit I did try to download one in the past. :\ what really annoyed me was the way that everything claimed to be "free" but then it turned out to try to charge either through credit card or phone bill. in answer to your question sirniko I think it is two reasons, one is obtaining permission to use a credit card and the other is that the ce price in crowns is www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0 yes mister you said it "the rent is too damn high".
Well, how about we have 1 new rare mineral that pay from 1 to 6 ce if deposit to new gates
I'm kinda laughing at whoever said Spiral Knights is aimed at children. This particular games graphical and artistic style has nothing to do with its target audience; E means the game is targeted for everybody, not just kids.
No for those stupid pseudo free survey sites. Those sites just take money for posting survey and they dont give a damn about if that survey is realiable or its just a scam.
And yes, most of it is scam do take your personal data,phone numbers etc. and in the end you wont get anything.
And support of most of those survey websites is like "Hello i filled survey and i didnt get anything" Answer:"sorry survey site didnt confirmed you completed survey". Masters of obvious. They dont try to check "why survey site didnt reported completition" they just assume you didnt completed it.
All those sites are scam, with free surveys and all of this. And at the end you will get banned from their system (becouse of started and unfinished surveys that you really have finished but their system is [ridiculous] and surveys are poor made and they dont report completition).
If it will appear here, there will be ton of topic " i did xxxx survey and didnt get my CE"...
Not to mention all this rant that will break out when some people will be able to make surveys while some will be unable to do it becouse of IP/country limits.
I agree with everyone who said that using those survey sites is a bad idea. However, Three Rings could do something similar without most of the drawbacks of the survey sites.
What if there was a small reward for completing those Spiral Knights surveys from the Uplink? That way, no one has to worry about outside sources gathering personal information and using it maliciously, conveniently "forgetting" to report completed surveys, making you download suspicious things, or scamming you out of real-life money. The surveys would be about Spiral Knights, so there would be no need to gather personal information at all, and everyone who plays Spiral Knights will be in the "target group". As the surveys would be in the game itself instead of from a random website, everyone with an active (and unbanned) Spiral Knights account would be able to complete the survey and get the reward, and the reward system would be less likely to fail than the reward systems of those survey sites. Even if it did fail, Three Rings could fix it (and possibly compensate those who completed the surveys and didn't get the reward) instead of having to rely on another company to fix things. The number of survey rewards would be fewer (as Three Rings wouldn't have as many surveys as the dedicated survey sites), so they would be less likely to break the economy. The rewards would also cause more people to answer the Uplink surveys, which I imagine Three Rings would want.
Of course, this could cause people to answer the surveys even if they have nothing meaningful to say, and Three Rings wouldn't want that. It could also cause the survey results to be biased toward those who answered the surveys specifically for the reward, which would also be bad.
I actually think the Elevator Fee is Fee, That's all I care anyway. This game is possibly like a Facebook game. You have to pay for something if you die or need something to play. CE should be for things like Weapon Crafts and all those things.
You don't need to pay for CE with real money at all if you know what you're doing.
EC wouldnt be a problem if the market price wasent at 7000+ crowns all the time. I remember it taking me like 6 trips to T2 and T3 to get the cash for 400 energy. I mean i can buy them if i asked my dad but 700 - 3000 energy wont really last long for me. There should be a way to Earn more energy without paying. like maby selling your gear for some energy, or like energy missions were u can earn like 200 -500 energy for doing stuff. Then each one can have different lvl like T1 energy missions hand out 200, T2 hand out 500, and T3 hand out 800. but thats just a idea. I like playing SK but i hate to stop playing for 1 1/2 days to get more energy.
"like maby selling your gear for some energy"
You can sell your gear for crowns, crowns get you energy.
What do you need to make gear? Energy and crowns. When you sell the gear, you get less crowns back, so you would also get energy back. That would not be a way to actually get energy, just to recover some stored in gear form.
Jaunces, sure, you don't need to pay, but someone does.