More Useful Energy Gates
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 16:27
I have played for quite a while now, and I've only ever seen a handful of energy gates opened (aside from danger rooms). I understand they're probably only intended for players who have trouble using up all of their mist for the day, but if the overwhelming majority of players can routinely forget that they even exist, I think there's some potential going to waste here.
I propose the following:
#1 - Treasure gates should be instanced per player (and balanced appropriately)
Right now, one person pays, but the whole group gets the treasure, so you've got the tragedy of the commons working against you, plus you're charging small groups the same amount for less treasure. Instead, each player should be able to choose for themselves whether the treasure behind the gate is worth the energy to them--no freeloaders or complex intra-party negotiations. As a result, the treasure behind an energy gate can be balanced to be worth about 3 energy without needing to worry that players are really going to collect 4x for the same price.
#2 - Choose a random theme for the treasure set, and make it apparent before the gate is opened
Treasure boxes can dispense a lot of different things, and you don't know what they contain until your break them. It would be silly if opening a treasure gate was so profitable that you always do it, but if you put different rewards behind different gates, then you can balance things so that most players will open some gates, but not others, depending on what they want. For example, on different runs, the same gate might contain:
- ~120 crowns
- A bunch of heat
- A crafting material (or several common ones)
- 1 "spark" token
- Several heart boxes
- A random selection of quickbar items
- A recipe vendor (with a small, randomized inventory)
- Pre-processed minerals, which are added to your inventory immediately without being carried on your back
Players should be able to see which of these is inside the gate before opening it (e.g. maybe not exactly which crafting material, but the fact that it is a crafting material and not a pile of heat).
The crowns are only going to be taken by people with spare mist (unless CE prices drop substantially), but you might plausibly pay 3 CE for a shot at a recipe you're looking for, for a token that can't normally be bought or traded, or to heal up so that you won't have to revive later--under the right conditions. This will make the energy gates relevant to a much wider selection of players, ultimately getting players to pay more attention and spend more energy.
You could also have treasure boxes occasionally, in which case the player is basically gambling for a shot at a rare drop. Maybe even a new color of treasure box with a small chance to drop unique costumes or something.
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 17:53
#2
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I'd pay a whole ten energy to open a gate in a deconstruction zone with some friendly Gremlins inside.
The machines just don't do it for me; too messy.
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 17:43
#3
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Severage writes: "I wouldn't mind this, but it's really whoever has the Elevator Pass opens the gates now. The only other thing they use them for is to revive."
In the present economy, if you can't convert 100 mist into at least 30-50 CE, you aren't trying. If you're playing solo, I'm pretty sure most energy gates are currently a bad deal even if you have an Elevator Pass.
"On the other hand, I don't like the idea of accessories dropping a lot. Maybe costumes that bound on pickup, but any accessories or costumes that you can sell would throw the market off balance imo."
Costumes and accessories are luxury goods. I don't think it's even possible for them to throw the economy of "real" items off-balance.
But I wasn't suggesting dropping a LOT of costumes, I was suggesting a SMALL CHANCE of dropping a costume. The cost to get in is only 3 energy, the average prize should be commensurate with that small cost.
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 17:52
#4
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Would this have the possibility of making (theoretically) better gates more expensive than others?
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 18:09
#5
@ Vivix-Core
hahaha, like imprisoned Gremlin gladiators? xD
That idea is actually pretty awesome, although I'd never pay 10 energy.
Mi, 01/18/2012 - 18:18
#6
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While we're on the subject of stylizing energy gates (or using some other indicator to tell what's behind them) - what about an energy gate that presents you with a gamble? Pay gate, chance of receiving your energy back along with whatever else is behind said gate. Maybe limit them to treasure vaults or something.
Do, 01/19/2012 - 08:28
#7
What Dark Ritual?
"Costumes and accessories are luxury goods. I don't think it's even possible for them to throw the economy of "real" items off-balance." -Antistone
Um...have you seen the costumes and accessories market? They're worth more crowns than anything in the game...except maybe CE. While it may not directly effect "real" items, it could potentially (depending on the kinds of costumes/accessories) be quite a massive crown redistribution. And, what is someone going to do when they just made a load of crowns from an accessory drop? Let's see, oh yes, buy CE. Suddenly, 5 people get an accessory drop every day on average, and CE prices go up. Just saying...there's plenty of CE price rises every day without events like this.
"But I wasn't suggesting dropping a LOT of costumes, I was suggesting a SMALL CHANCE of dropping a costume. The cost to get in is only 3 energy, the average prize should be commensurate with that small cost." -Antistone
Point taken.
~Sev
Do, 01/19/2012 - 18:07
#8
Econ 101
Let's say you find a cool costume. You put it up on the auction house, sell it for a million crowns, and use the proceeds to buy crystal energy. Do you think the price of CE just went up? More likely it just went DOWN.
You're only looking at one side of the equation. That million crowns didn't come out of nowhere; someone had to give it to you. If they had a million crowns, they would have spent it on something; why should we assume that the economy is worse off with you spending it than with him spending it?
Or, more likely, they didn't have that kind of cash just sitting around, so they sold a bunch of CE to get it--either CE they were hoarding, or CE they just bought with real money because they want the costume. Either way, they just put a million crowns' worth of CE into circulation. So if you take that million crowns and buy CE, the price doesn't go up--you just bought up the excess that the other guy just dropped on the market.
Except that the energy exchange takes 2% from each sale, and the auction house takes 10%. So if he sold a million crowns worth of CE, you only bought back around 865k crowns worth of energy--the rest of it is still floating around on the market, reducing the price for everyone.
Dropping costumes doesn't add wealth to the game, it just redistributes it--it even removes some of it, through the fees on the auction house or other transactional costs.
And yes, there's a lot of wealth being redistributed. But that's good. The buyer values the costume more than what he paid for it, or he wouldn't have bought it. The seller values the money more, or he wouldn't have sold it. That means they're both happier than they would've been before the redistribution--the new distribution is more efficient; there's more happiness between the two of you, even though there's less money between the two of you. And the fact that there's less money between the two of you makes the rest of the world happier, too, because they have less competition. Everyone wins. Really.
In fact, OOO is already dropping an average of several costumes a day into the game through their featured auction system. When that patch came out, the CE price plummeted, because it got a bunch of players to sell CE so they could buy the costumes for crowns. (In that case, they're destroying ALL of the crowns, rather than 10%, because OOO is the seller--but the principle is the same.)
Do, 01/19/2012 - 19:31
#9
Haha...
You're completely right lol, that was a critical error on my part. I assumed the crowns to buy it came out of nowhere. Thanks for pointing that out.
This is totally the only reason I use these forums. To argue points until I get blown out of the water...lol. I agree the Featured Auctions are a great Crown sink too. As useless as they are personally to someone as poor as me, they're better for everyone in the long run.
~Sev
Fr, 01/20/2012 - 10:57
#10
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@Vivix-Core: "Would this have the possibility of making (theoretically) better gates more expensive than others?"
It's certainly possible to have some energy gates with a higher entry fee, whether my ideas from this thread are implemented or not.
But you'd have to do it in such a way that players don't get confused about the costs of gates, and end up accidentally spending 10 energy when they thought they were spending 3. And unless they come up with some cool rewards for 10-gates that cannot be scaled down to be worth 3 instead of 10, it's hard to see how that would be better than just offering multiple gates next to each other.
Fr, 01/20/2012 - 13:23
#11
If you are so concerned about
If you are so concerned about the tragedy of the commons, then the arena's need to be reworked too. Honestly, I'd rather not see that since I'll pay a free ride for others on occasion. Especially for my brother, or friends.
Either way, plenty of players think it is worth their time to open a gate. If you don't feel it is worth it, then why should OOO change it so you can invest in gates rather than whatever it is you invest in now? I don't see why OOO should change the game so you can make a bigger profit in a different area of the game. I mean, those gates provide a quick and easy way to convert energy into hearts, crowns, or heat with no effort involved. Peddling wares takes time and risk but provides larger rewards. Choose whatever mechanism you want to make money, rather than insisting that OOO needs to provide a risk free way of making tons of loot.
Fr, 01/20/2012 - 15:56
#12
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@Nordlead: "Either way, plenty of players think it is worth their time to open a gate."
Not that I can find. I've played hundreds of hours, and I can probably count on my hands the number of times I've seen anyone open an energy gate (again, aside from danger rooms).
Regardless, it's really not worth arguing about how much they're used. OOO knows, or can easily find out. Let's just say that my suggestion is predicated on the assumption that only a tiny minority of energy gates currently get opened, and we can all agree that it's probably not worth the trouble to implement if reliable data disproves that assumption, okay?
#1: I wouldn't mind this, but it's really whoever has the Elevator Pass opens the gates now. The only other thing they use them for is to revive.
#2: This would be nice for those of us who don't have Elevator Passes, as of now they are usually only crowns and heat. Since heat cannot be measured, it's difficult to tell whether what you get is worth the 3 CE or not. Usually it's Mist, and so I open it without second thoughts, since normally I do RCR (For crowns) once a day, leaving plenty of mist for opening gates and whatnot. But to have more specific boxes besides Red, Green and Heart would be nice.
On the other hand, I don't like the idea of accessories dropping a lot. Maybe costumes that bound on pickup, but any accessories or costumes that you can sell would throw the market off balance imo.
~Sev