...and I don't know if this fits into the thread, but how would a pure sword user begin to be a help to a bomber? I've been in parties with bombers where I was the odd one out, and really felt like I wasn't contributing much other than the odd-DPS to a monster outside the blast radius. I couldn't use my DA because its huge knockback would push the monsters outside of the blast, and I didn't want to be a nuisance. So this brings me to my current predicament:
I've been toying with the idea of being a pure-support sword wielder for most runs. What I mean by this is that I would get a very powerful shield (perhaps along the lines of an Omega Shell) and both a Speed- and Knockback-sword (Dread Venom + Divine Avenger currently) in order to support bombers. I'd primarily shield-screen or use knockback/shield pushes to bash enemies into the blast radius. For the trickier ones to deal with (Gun Puppies for sure) I'd try to draw attention/lure into the radius/outright kill. What do any bombers think of this? Would it be useful, or just a hindrance?
I'm not a pure or elite bomber.
But Sketchy, I think you could still play however you want. At least with me, I use the Freezing Atomizer. I've seen people complain about people with swords breaking the freeze status but I disagree with that for three reasons:
a) The freeze bombs have a fair interval where enemies get refrozen anyway, so you can take a whack if you want and move away.
b) The atomizer has a fair size radius (nothing compared to the shivermist though), but with your sword the most you can do unless you are just TRYING to freeze break all enemies is maybe knock one or two of them out of the freezing circle permanently. The rest will be waiting right there for you to come back and finish them off, maybe even with a charge attack ^-^
c) When I freeze, it's usually for the minor damage and the holding potential, not because I care about the damage they take from naturally thawing out.
I just use that one type of bomb but it should still apply to anyone who uses any of the vaporizers at the very least. But this is a very different setup from someone who uses actual damaging bombs so I can't speak for them.
Oh and for me, you really wouldn't want to rely on my bomb killing gun puppies outright. They are weak to the damage it deals but that's not more than whatever sword you have could be doing to them. The best I can do is freeze them in a certain direction so you can strafe around them safely and charge kill them.
I'm fairly new to Spiral Knights (almost to tier 2) and I'm interested in getting into bombing. Tips? Recommendations? Help? (donations? :P)
my leviathan is great for knocking back enemies who get to close.
the shivermist bomb I use is great to freeze mobs in their place, while my party members slash away at them.
If I'm soloing tier 2, I usually walk behind the freezed opponents and slash away or my charged leviathan attack.
Seriously, Ice bombs are very un-appreciated. I have not seen another ice bomber besides myself.
the other bomb I use is the gravition bomb. Its great and all against slimes, but thats about it.
Unless your planning on juggling with it with another bomb, then sure its good. but I don't do it that way.
Planning on replacing it with my master blaster bomb or maybe make a crystal bomb.
However, this shouldn't change the fact on what bombs your going to use.
Everyone has a different playing style, this is mine.
wow forgot this....
@weaboo, basically gravidos is terrible, and i see a ton of bombers with freeze. lastly don't make shard bombs.... nothing except damage(if it hits) they're still fun to use, and nothings stopping you from trying them.
@iexeous tips=basically first post, and if your starting out, try a blast or vaporizer. and if you need a bomb ask riodaisho..... that is if the ones i gave hime are still in his arsenal.
@negima yeah i agree with you bout freezy atom - seriously people stop complaining, bombers help swordies, not hate. (you don't get any bonuses just cus your doing more damage to groups of mobs)
and really taking down gunpuppies is freezy only, or if (rarity) you have a shard bomb they can be pretty easy to take out.
@sketchytexas i don't get into to many bomb based runs (everyone on mah friends list are swordies) but i can see how you'd hardly get a hit on enemies. perhaps try to run ahead and take out obstacles/ do as much damage as possible to mobs and let the bombers take out stragglers. and if there all ele bombers just rush the hell out of mobs.
@toby nice progress: jealous of that nitro (was i correct saying it was master blast size radius?) and yeah what eek said, but ill correct him and say that i use my freezy just for damage against lumbers as it hits a lot higher in the initial blast than regular blast bombs, and i definately see benefits in having UVs on vaps.
@syor basically any bombs is good for soloing, and blast bombs by themselves will easily slide you through a dungeon. if you wanna go all combo-like, that is a decent set up, (awesome how you can deal with the shard bomb =D ) and if your doing it for JK solo.... have fun not beating him (bombers fail on vanny(possible: improbable) and JK dramatically(impossible)).
I feel like when I play in a group my main purpose is to support the people running swords and guns and not the other way around. I think the best thing you can do is understand the mechanics of bombs and play smart.
For example, the fire vaporizer line is meant to soften up enemies so you can kill them faster. If a bomber is laying down fire status you should be attacking enemies that have been on fire the longest so that the fire can continue to soften up recently inflicted enemies.
If the bomber is freezing people you should be using that status to flank around the enemy and safely attack them from behind. I see a lot of people assume the enemy can't attack at all and get themselves killed. With jellies, freeze makes it safer to move but you should still block or back away. For gun puppies you should be using the freeze to flank and kill the turret. Turrets are a nightmare for me since I basically have to play the bullet hell game to even get near them so I always rely on other people to take these out.
There are some other small things I do that wouldn't work without the cooperation of other people but I don't know if all bombers do it or not. For example when there are enemies in cages (i.e. scarlet fortress) or behind breakable blocks I will put a bomb down and then break the block with my sword before the bomb blows up. By doing this I can get my elemental dmg on fire bomb, inflict fire, and get a free shot on the enemy greatly softening them up for everyone else. Of course in most random parties I can't do this because people just run in and break stuff.
If a teammate is kiting an enemy I always kite with them to keep aggro in a small area and the group together. If you see a bomber kiting a group of enemies your best bet is to start kiting with them so they can deal their damage.
Other than that just do your thing. I don't think shield screening or anything like that is really necessary. Any competent bomber is well versed in being able to safely charge and drop their bombs without getting hit.
and really taking down gunpuppies is freezy only, or if (rarity) you have a shard bomb they can be pretty easy to take out.
Did you just throw a pun in there haha, nice
I havent really tried the full potential of shard bomb but I do find it a decent bomb when placing it in the middle of a crowd, and I was thinking that it might work with gravi, havent test it out yet though.
Hey fellow bombers!
I'm hoping for a bit more clarification and confirmation about UV affecting a bomb's radius.
Unfortunately the wiki makes no mention of it and I can't find any offical forum posts or examples of it happen.
So my questions are
Does having UV affect the bomb's radius?
Is it any UV or specific type of UV?
Does anyone have image posts of the radius difference between a UV-ed bomb and a non-UV-ed bomb?
I now use shiver mist buster -> leviathan -> venom veiler (med gremlin UV).
2. any UV obtainable on bombs
3. no, they are the same.
Shivermist Buster. Vanaduke. No-death.
I'm planning to make mad bomber helm ( only helm, i will use another armor ). With mad bomber helm, which one is better, nitronome or irontech destroyer?
0.o i'd try..... but seeing i can't dodge vanny's animations at all.... diamonds to anyone who can do it.
also weaboo, are you sure blast bomb UVs don't have any downd radius? as i know vaps radius aren't affected, i'm still unclear whether the shorter radius thing is the same as last preview.
I wonder about the radius thing but for a different...shivermist actual damage radius is VERY tiny compared to the ice. Sure that's what I use it for (the freeze) but I thought I'd get damage, I noticed that the Atomizer also didn't fully damage enemies in its circle but it mostly damaged enemies in its circle (maybe take off about a half character lenght on either side of the circlee). I have a UV low vs beast on it though, hope that's not why, otherwise I would've gotten rid of it, I kept it just because (its not even a useful UV really)
As mentioned, the damage radius of Vaporizers are not the same size as the total radius. It's just a little larger than the little 'breaking' in the center when it goes off.
You could say the blast is actually the size of a 1* bomb; the status is what encompasses the area.
Hi do any of you have a Low CTR Blast Bomb for sale? Im really interested in getting one :)
Nitronome forever, soloing to core with it is easy
:'( I do still feel it shrunk a bit but meh lol...can't do anything about it either way, gotta hug those skeles with the bombs then 8D
If the vaporizers did damage in a larger radius, I think they would be overpowered. They do a ton of elemental damage inside that small ring. The main purpose of the vaporizer is to inflict status. Fire ticks even with minor fire are very good and freeze can keep enemies perpetually for the most part.
The only one that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is the venom/toxic vaporizer. Minor poison doesn't decrease enemy atk or def much at all (I do like 220 dmg instead of 210 in tier 3) and enemies don't get hurt from being healed anymore (or at least it seems that way). On top of that, even hitting a lumber with the elemental dmg from a venom veiler everey time and a nitronome in between, I was unable to kill it while two gremlin were alive in 5 minutes. I'm assuming it doesn't even completely stop healing or that gremlin ground heal is bugged.
Could be bugged. I don't use the poison ones so I wouldn't know.
Yeah, it is possible. After I killed the healers I took down the lumber with 3 nitronomes. Anyway, I'm pretty dispointed with the venom veiler in general. I was hoping to supplement it into my solo toolkit to deal with evasive healers like gremlins so I could finish killing everything else then deal with healers last and for flame arena so I could kite (I was using ash of agni before but thought I'd get more of a punch with the veiler). The poison isn't effective enough and doesn't last long enough for use in solo which is sad. You pretty much have to spam it non stop to keep the status going. In a group setting it works OK since you can drop a veiler then an ash of agni then a veiler to get poison and fire going on everything but if you need to focus down mobs on your own it just isn't feasible. As for use in a flame arena, it is OK but again the minor poison isn't that great. I'm doing about the same damage on my high construct UV venom veiler (when poisoned) as I do with my vhigh construct UV ash of agni. At least the sound of poisoning the last wave in room 3 of the arena is hilarious I guess but I'm not sure this bomb will see much use unless it gets some kind of buff.
Shh Sick, that's my secret plan.
Enemies barely out of my venom veiler/shivermist buster do get the status.
like really barely. like almost touching the outside radius.
You comment in your first post that when it's maxed, its awesome. On t3 @ level 1, It's getting nearly the same numbers that a t4 master blast bomb but with slower charge time and the slow walky thing. Having it maxed it worth it ? I hope so.
When you get your irontech to level 10 let's go to D19 or D28 and test dmg against a nitronome. Hopefully I can find an angry bomb by then and we can finally have some numbers to reference for the blast bomb series.
that would be awesome. and it seems im getting the same damage with my maxed out master blast compared to my maxed out irontech.... im not optimistic. last time i must have got my irontech after i got my full mad bomber last preview..... may have confused my numbers >.<
it better be good cus i just got an irontech destroyer recipe to.
also i know Njthug has an angry....but i don't think its maxed or even past lvl 1 *cough*
it'd be nice to get some good numbers.
MFW in an arena with plenty of options for escape, a player yells at me after dying when he claims that the enemies I froze were somehow impeding his progress more than if I hadn't froze them.
I finally got an Irontech Destroyer today. Got it off someone who found it in a treasure box. Let me know what details you need. I'll take a screenshot of the explosion for the wiki (it's orange). The fuse timer is really long, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just different... have to adjust and use a slightly different playstyle.
Also, the knockback is huge... similar to my Levi's charge attack in distance.
Read this up, probably has enough info of the good and bad while using Freeze bomb
NO1r Hey it's Auorora! I had the privilege of being your party yesterday and you reignited my passion to get this demo suit finished and up and running! About halfway through your post I think I figured out you were Lusty, haha. I just have to say you were awesome and thanks for sharing your wealth of experience on the forum so it's accessible to all us new bombers!
Thanks mate, much appreciated :).
Ok, I'm new to bomber and really need some tips. I'm used to playing with sword and guns, but that seem kind of bored after a while, so I will like to try out something new instead.
I just make a haze bomb with UV CTR high. ( After like 30 - 40 try)... I'm lucky i guess?
I know that when bomb reach lvl 10, they will also have a CTR medium. So that mean a total of Ultra CTR. In this case do you think it will be worth while to make a demo suit/helm just for that low CTR, to max out CTR?
I mean will it really make a big difference??
But if i make the demo suit/helm to 5*, then i will have a medium CTR again, which will exceed the cap, so it's not really that useful...
Appreciate if any of the elite bomber here can offer some advice.
reeally, vaporizers arent something to spam, nor do they have the need to be spammed. so essentially if you have good UV charge times you could explore and find more defensive armour. really, the only time you will need to spam any bomb is in pvp, which isn't re-released yet =\ i have a ultra charge time reduct all up on my freezy atom, and rarely spam it unless theres a lichen or mobs i cant get rid of. if anything get a heavy demo set, and leave it for a while. if you feel that you begin to rely on your bomb, get 5 star ;)
really it all depends on weather your supporting a party(it don't matter, them swordies will get em), the bombs supporting yourself (max th CTR to the MAAX!) or you want spread the most amount of damage in a given time (also spam it). and seeing as its gonna be a fiery vap, youll be doing a ton of damage anyway. and max-ultra.... i don't know the difference as i have ultra on one bomb but no max as of yet.
have fun bombing ;) and feel free to send me a message.
Ok, i get the idea. So spamming isn't really for vaporizers.. didn't realize it until now.
I was thinking that if i'm going to spam then maxing it out will be good.
Guess i will only craft myself a demo suit when i'm free, since i suppose there really wasn't much use to max it out..
Thx for the advice
Erm, one more thing to ask: In your opinion which do you think is more useful?
Fiery Vaporizer or Freezing Vaporizer?
I know it depend on play style and map, but in general which is more useful in a party?
freezy usually is better these days when your in a party, but fiery is still great soloing. combining the two get some pretty ownage effects.
Let's put an end to this UV bomb radius myth.
Just want to clarify something:
Is there really a range reduction in bombs with damage UVs?
Any evidence please? Is sounds very abstract, and i heard from some that theres no difference in bomb range in UV damage bombs
The guy right above JUST posted screenshots proving that the bomb radius stays exactly the same with and without damaging UVs.
Sarcasm? No, no, wait... sarchasm.
finally. thanks eek! im so happy that they removed that since the preview. thanks for the effort.
and gigafreak... calm down. everyone has a right to ask.
yes dinosaur there is no radius reduction from UV, as there was in the preview.
Hi, I was wondering if there is any recommended shield to use with mad bomber to compensate its drawbacks? I currently have turtle shield.
well, when i had mad bomber last preview, i used a dread skelly shield which made life so much easier. im currently using a wyrvn shield, but really its Dependant on what mobs your fighting/are capable against.
Remember the stats on your shield have nothing to do with armour and helms, shields are on there own, and the stats are only active when your shield is up. and when im bombing, i hardly need a shield (hence why i probs wont up mine to 5star) unless its just to tap it once to get out of a situation.
1. Why do you like bombs?
2. Why do you like walking on the beach barefoot?
3. Do you dream of walking on the beach barefoot with your bombs?
4. Which is your favorite bomb and why?
5. If you had to pick one bomb to use for the rest of your life which one would it be?
6. Do you like the Nitro or the Ash (You cant say or....or both)?
1. cus they make me feel all sweeny todd.... i like feeling all sweeny todd =D
2. i like walking on the beach in barefoot as it feels funny?
4. Irontech Destroyer: sure the damage ain't great but you always feel empowered when the blast appears
5. ionised salt bomb....some day it will be balanced... some day...
6. Nitro.... ash is for tryhards who have to much CE [ i wish i had to much CE D= ]
Hey guys, I've recently made a switch to bomber and I'm loving it. I tried guns, got to 5* and changed to swords, got to 4*/5* and decided two things:
1. Guns- Running around kiting stuff is annoying and the damage is unsatisfying. It was nice tho being able to take out gunpuppies and such at range.
2. Swords- Mashing the attack button, constantly feeling panicked that I needed to do enough damage/move away quick enough/shield fast enough to get away from an enemies melee attack sucked... but the damage was nice. Grand Flourish VS Wolvars anyone?
So now I'm trying bomber, and I LOVE it. Mainly focusing on the haze series for it's utility and support capabilities. Right now I've got...
Mad Bomber Set (Hat and Suit)
Shivermist Buster with CTR VH
Ash of Agni with CTR VH
Big Angry Bomb (I Hate this bomb with a passion... such a waste of CE... SLOOOOOW charge time, SMALL radius and only 10-20 more damage than my Nitronome)
And I'm looking at getting a venom veiler cause I heard that 1 of two things happens with poison... Mobs get damaged when healing or they dont get healed at all. (I've heard both accounts..)
My question tho is why don't I ever see any venom veilers out there?
Oh also, graviton sucks.
Actually just saw someone auctioning a Venom Veiler in the Bazaar on the forums, check it out :)
Shivermist and Ash are definitely much more popular bombs than the Venom Veiler. Debuffing just isn't as awesome as burning or freezing everything. That said, I really like the Venom Veiler, it combines nicely with fire so I'll set everything on fire and have it poisoned too.
Poison will cause healing to do damage instead, but it must be very slight. I've seen a mender kill another monster by healing it just one time. I've heard you can push poisoned enemies over healing circles, which sounds like all sorts of fun, but I haven't tried it myself. Poison will also decrease the attack and defense of the mob slightly. In an arena setting poison makes a noticeable difference in how quickly and easily they are put down.
I noticed your Ash and Shivermist are both CTR VH? Is that like UV CTR VH? Or UV CTR Medium + Level 10 Medium? When you have a bomb at UV CTR VH, the level 10 Medium CTR will bring the total CTR up to Max without any special bombing suits. (Making UV CTR Very High popular with sword wielders.)
If you are wearing full mad bomber, you don't even need a UV CTR on a bomb since it'll reach Max naturally at Level 10. Volcanic Demo Set requires just UV CTR Low to reach Max. At some point it is probably more useful to have a UV Damage vs Monster Type instead of a UV CTR for straight bombers.
They both have UV CTR VH... I dont have any CTR UV on my Nitronome and don't plan on paying for UV on venom veiler either. I got the mad bomber to A) make up for that and B) because none of my gear is level 10 or close to it. It's all like, level 1 and 2.. i've been working the bazaar and stuff and hunting with my other sets (Swords and Gun) in the meantime. I've gone out with guildies and played around with the bombs and have done some research on how to actually play them (when to use certain bomb types where etc) but have really only focused on CTR gear. Havent even really looked at the other sets of 5* bomber gear.
Mind giving me a quick rundown on the pro's and cons of each of the 5* armor sets?
@Ark: You never see VV becaise it is a 5th slot bomb and we can only have 4 weapon slots lol. Unfortunately, minor poison status is not very good and it doesn't last long enough to be used solo. Ash of agni will continue burning for quite a while and shivermist will keep a lot of enemies frozen as long as you don't hit them but the poison on VV seems to run almost immediately after the ring disappears (needs to be tested I guess). I've found that because of this even when you're playing support in a party you have to keep spamming it to make any difference and the ~5% increased damage you're allowing the team to do doesn't offset the increased health of mobs due to you being there. Even in T2, fire ticks will do like 20-50 dmg which is way more than any increased dmg will do and while blocking heal is helpful in T3 it's not as good as you just sniping out the healer with your sword.
edit: The timing on poison from VV and fire from AoA might be similar or the same but the difference is that fire is doing passive damage while poison does nothing so the poison should be lasting way longer. To kill something using VV you'd have to poison then attack it and it doesn't last long enough to be helpful. I initially made it to aid in dealing with annoying menders in T3 while soloing but it doesn't give you enough time to do anything. You basically drop a VV, attack, and after you get 1-2 swings in the poison is over so you have to reapply poison but by the time you're done charging the mender gets in a +200hp heal. I found it was easier (and faster! derp) to just mindlessly spam AoA and wait for fire to eventually kill menders than to use any kind of strategy.
There are only three types of 5* bomber gear, only two of them are typically used. The Bombastic Demo pieces each give low bomb damage and offer no status resistance which makes them quite underwhelming compared to the other two sets. Fortunately, all of these demo sets have Normal/Elemental Defense so they are still all playable.
Each Mad Bomber piece has Medium Dmg and Medium CTR, wearing both gives you very high in both categories. This is perfect because with a level 10 bomb you'll automatically have CTR Maximum, every bomber's dream. Also, if you get a bomb UV Medium Damage vs Type, then that will shoot up to max too while the rest of your damage is at Very High. The downside to all of this is the negative status resistance, which isn't a problem if you can avoid getting hit. When it comes to fire or shock that can be very deadly. In some arenas you are just bound to get hit and thus bound to die. One can only carry three remedy pills at a time after all. Otherwise it is really fun :D I enjoy the extra challenge.
You can offset the negative status effect by using trinkets. One 5* trinket will negate the effect of one piece. So if wearing full Mad Bomber and heading into a freeze zone, pop in two 5* freeze trinkets and you'll do fine. Won't get any extra protection, but at least you are now neutral to freeze.
Volcanic Demo set is the bomber's endgame set for FSC, just like practically everyone else uses the Vog Cub Set for endgame. The helm has CTR Medium whereas the suit gets CTR Low. If you are mixing sets then you'll want to use the helm instead of the suit. For example, wearing a Volcanic Demo Helm + Vog Cub Coat, will net Bomb CTR Medium + Sword IAS Medium. Switching it around gets Bomb CTR Low + Sword IAS Medium.
With full Volcanic Demo you need just UV CTR Low in order to reach CTR Max. If doing just the helm, you'll need a UV CTR Medium bomb to reach max.
What to wear comes down to which UVs are on your bombs to take advantage of their full potential. Then also decide if the upcoming status effects are going to be problematic or not.