Spiral Knights - Definite "Player-Facing Changes"

Definite "Player-Facing Changes" - Stealth Patch of 2/13/2012

44 replies [Last post]

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:15

Chris

As many of you may already know, there was a stealth patch a few days that stated "Today's patch contains a few behind the scenes items and has no player-facing changes."

However, there are many changes to very player-facing things.

The CONFIRMED changes so far.

- Flourish and Barb thorn lines have had their range decreased. (most notably on the second and third swings as well as the first swing whilst moving) Standing still first swings seem to be less of a problem, I suspect a client-server communication issue.
- Auto-Target has had it's effectiveness and range reduced.
- Gran Faust/ Divine Avenger second swing range reduced, first swing reduced whilst moving also most likely due to a client-server communication issue.

Please post any other changes you have noticed.
We are currently investigating a few others that have not been CONFIRMED yet

- Polaris max range bullet AoE size (we think it has been increased slightly, this has not been confirmed and could also be the same issue as the flourish client-server communication issue.)

I don't dislike these changes, I just don't want to be lied to.
We want a list of all changes this patch

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:18

Neodasus

I can confirm the range of

I can confirm the range of flourish has been nerfed, it isn't placebo.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:41

Bopp

confirmed where?

Please tell me where these changes are "confirmed", and how. I don't just take you at your word, sorry. Convince me.

Edit: Also, your title says "GMs", implying multiple GMs. Have multiple ones lied to you? Substantiate this claim, please.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:30

Warlordx

This sounds like excellent

This sounds like excellent news

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:37

Fehzor

It sure would be nice if they

It sure would be nice if they just told us stuff like this...

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:49

Chris

@ Bopp I have hundreds of

@ Bopp
I have hundreds of hours of video recordings of pre-change flourish and auto target max range

Nick said there are no player facing changes, another GM stated this on the forums as well to a player, I'm not digging for the thread.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:52

Xairathan

Confirmed

Did a test run in FSC with my BTB. There's this one corner I use for trojan-killing in the last room of D27. The usual method requires me to step a little closer to the Trojan. Might just be me, but it seems there's been a one or two-square nerf. Just speculation ofc.

EDIT: in the middle of my 2nd Vana run, DA charge attack seems to function normally. Gran Faust charge attack unchecked.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:57

Chris

I noticed the flourish

I noticed the flourish changes right away, not the auto target though, that took a few games of LD to notice.

The Gran Faust seems normal though.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:07

Kennergy

Something is definitively

Something is definitively fishy with the ranges. Seems that my Final Flourish swings don't hit people when they are right in front of me. People will probably say that it is an internet connection issue but I have not had that problem until now.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:08

Chris

That's exactly what it feels

That's exactly what it feels like to somebody with MANY MANY hours in lockdown (toothpick fest). I first did extensive testing and changing of internet connections to make sure this was not the case.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:09

#10

Fluffyfoxxie

I approve of these changes so

I approve of these changes so far :)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:21

#11

Bopp

PvE. as well as PvP?

Okay, so the people claiming changes seem to be pretty confident in their assertions that the range has changed. Next question: Is this only for PvP? Or is it true in PvE also?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:29

#12

Sypsy

Confirmed that the 2nd swing has been nerfed on distance.

I went to training hall and tried it out.
The range on the FF first swing is the same as DA/GF/Triglave, both from the sides and from the front. at least as far as hitting the switch was. This does not appear to be different from pre-patch. This could explain why some, like myself, didn't notice a difference since we predominately use the first swing in LD.

How about vs prepatch:
I was NOT able to reproduce the results from a prior test done by Glowing-Ember & Volebamus here. I could NOT get the 2nd swing to hit while starting on the 3rd block away from the switch. I had to move a bit closer. If my first swing couldn't hit the switch, neither could my second swing. So for me, I know that the 2nd swing has been nerfed at some point since this video. The third swing probably was nerfed too. But no one should be using the 3rd swing anyway.

I guess that's why I was able to dodge seemingly more in LD. Along w/ that autotarget change which helped me dodge more.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:35

#13

Chris

I have no problem with the

I have no problem with the changes, I just don't want to be lied to and I want to know what the changes are.

@ spyspy if the DA/GF/trig are the same as the FF they also got nerfed (unless this is only a lockdown toothpick nerf)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:33

#14

Fluffyfoxxie

@ Chris Valid point, I agree.

@ Chris

Valid point, I agree. It would be nice to have a little more transparency on stuff like this.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:52

#15

Diamondshreddie

YES!!!

THANK YOU!!! LOCKDOWN IS NOW PLAYABLE!! <3 kisses Nick*

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:02

#16

Snorunt

This could be my paranoia speaking... but...

I did notice earlier today that hits that looked like they should have connected did not.
And I mean in PvE. Mainly with explosive blocks, which are pretty predictable for maximum hit range.
I had put it up to lag and/or my bad estimation at distance at the time, but seeing this might explain a bit.

Edit: Forgot to mention this was with Barb.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:41

#17

Jaroche

Nope, none of the "confirmed"

Nope, none of the "confirmed" changes are noticeable enough (pvp or pve).... or maybe just for (unskilled) pierce spammers.

@Sypsy i tried to do that just now with final flourish (5*) and flamberge (3*), from the 3 block i was able to hit the switch most the time with the 2nd swing. I suppose latency was the cause when didn't.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:32

#18

Paweu

Mass hallucination has

Mass hallucination has happened yet again! Miracles befall Spiral Knights forums! Only in today's The Sun!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:49

#19

Asukalan

Its not about if you approve

Its not about if you approve or disapprove changes, posts like Diamondshreddies or Fluffyfoxxies are so pointless, out of topic and are presenting those users being so narrowminded.

Its about OOO doing stealth patches over and over again. And well, stealth patches happen, ok, but this time they said that with recent update that it "has no player-facing changes" yet something changed!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:40

#20

Guyinshinyarmour

Do you think it could have to do with OOO tightening issues with lag, which results in ranges seeming to get nerfed when in fact it's just not compensating as much any more? Or maybe the engine is tweaked and the effects are felt in other areas OOO didn't anticipate?

Basically, could it be possible that any player facing changes are an indirect result? How is OOO supposed to tell us about something happening if it's unintended? >_>

Oh, wait, they're obviously evil, that's why. It's all intended just to screw us over, amirite?

*Sigh*

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:45

#21

Skold-The-Drac

Since the patch my RJP runs fall flat

I've done the same boss series 6 times... I still get the same results, the changes are as follows.

My two-swing swords can no longer stun-lock puppies, I interrupt their firing and then they charge and fire within approximately one second (would've been nice to get a warning there)
Jelly King has since had multiple points where lag SPIKES for me... this hasn't happened until the patch
I have died 2 more times than what I normally do, I'm assuming damage has been changed a little. (OR it could be attributed to pill drops sinking to the darkside of the moon for me, may just be bad luck)

I'll put it quite simply... instead of making anything off RJP runs, I either fall flat on my face in the middle of Battle Royale, or barely manage to make 200 cr due to how many times I have to ce rez. These are the changes I'm gonna just confirm here and now, since I've spoken with all of my friends and they can agree to these.

RJP now contains points in which lag will spike moreso than it already has.
Both SS and Grintovec (both of mine are fully heated) will not stun-lock with the two-strike system. (again... warn me next time you do this)
Battle Royale itself has serious lagspikes at random intervals. (I've been told they seem to be more prominent during his twist around the castle phase.)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:52

#22

Exerpa

As for was not player-facing

As for was not player-facing but now is, the love aura is not as tall or as dense as seen through spiralspy pre-patch. I like this aura, had it not been revised just before launch it could have been far more obnoxious than a haven full of twitchy, noisy dragon wings :)
Good jobs guys, it's like you read my mind!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:01

#23

No-Thanks

Zelda

"Mass hallucination has happened yet again! Miracles befall Spiral Knights forums! Only in today's The Sun!" maybe its the valentines chocolate..or maybe its chris o.o

/prayforjimdaletobuttin

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:07

#24

Gwenyvier

I noticed on a couple

I noticed on a couple different monsters in arenas yesterday that my Final Flourish didn't hit on the 3rd strike when I know for a fact it should have connected. 3rd strike gives a nice bit of forward movement, so if you miss you end up beside your intended target. I stopped dead in front of them but no damage or any indication the 3rd hit connected.

I assume it is a bug.

~Gwen

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:37

#25

Kupoo

@Gwen

I've actually had that happen to me (and my BTB) distressingly often even before the recent patch came out. It seemed to be particularly common when trying to impale Spookats, and I'm pretty sure that on occasion, even the second strike would whiff in the same manner.

Then again, third hits have always been weird to me; I've missed Jelly Cubes with an auto-aimed third swing of my Combuster quite a few times.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:26

#26

Xairathan

@Polaris Changes

I got my gunner-friend who uses a Polaris to go test this out for me and they claim no changes. That, and it seems to be as effective as ever in PvP >.>;

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:37

#27

Eltia

We need more patch transparency

It is also discovered that they did some optimization in SK's engine. (Monsters are now prefetched into memory before they spawn to smoothen out performance on low end machines.)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:43

#28

Nordlead

I haven't seen any change

I haven't seen any change with the BTB myself. I used it multiple times in T3 to trigger exploding blocks and had no problem with that or with wolvers. Haven't noticed any changes with auto-aim either, but then again I only want it to kick in when I'm close to monsters using my fast swords.

@Skold-The-Drac - 1 of your complaints is directly tied to skill, don't blame it on a patch if you die. Also, start running in parties so you don't have to CE rev if you are concerned about profit. Another of your complaints is due to either an old computer, or a bad connection. The final battle has always been laggy on my laptop or HTPC especially when the JK spins. As for the 2-swing swords, did you change any other equipment? I've had no problem stun-locking gun puppies with my 3-swing swords in T3.

@topic of dev's lying. You don't know this. All you know is that you have perceived changes that may have been unintended side affects.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:14

#29

Heimdallr

---

I haven't noticed any changes to BTB either, as far as PvE goes. I'm still able to smack bomb blocks from a good distance. I'm unsure about the auto-target bit, though.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:46

#30

Neodasus

Flourish seems to have gotten

Flourish seems to have gotten it the most, you can tell by the number of posts claiming the flourish has "phantom-range"

The devs actually pay attention, it's just strange that they didn't explain what they did. Probably because of snipestorms like this.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:41

#31

Chris

@ JarocheThe only people who

@ Jaroche
The only people who would notice this immediately are the most skilled and experienced lockdown flourish users.
One of the reasons me neodasus and kennys-knight noticed them right away.

I have 100% confirmed that the second and third swings of the flourish line have a SIGNIFICANTLY reduced range.
It seems the first swing is having client-server communication problems whilst moving, as it seems to have no problems when standing still.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:46

#32

Demonicsothe

You can swing while moving? I

You can swing while moving? I thought swords had to stop moving to attack.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:48

#33

Chris

When you are moving and then

When you are moving and then swing in order to stop your movement it seems to be causing problems for the first swing.

What I think is happening, the server is not registering the Knights full movement before the swing due to the recent weapon changes which is making the server think you are slightly farther away from where you actually are, giving you a negative ghost range.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:30

#34

Rangerwillx

I played some T2 LD yesterday, and something was clearly wrong with my swift flourish. I now know.
OOO, please tell us what you do instead of making us figure it all out.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:50

#35

Knight-Solaire

Praise the sun!

It's a conspiracy, I knew it!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:59

#36

Eurydice

Community Manager

Chris, the GMs aren't

Chris, the GMs aren't "knowingly withholding" anything; if a change slipped into a build, they wouldn't know about that, as GMs don't touch the code. The devs are checking into whether any changes did slip into the latest build.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:02

#37

Neodasus

It's possible, as what we

It's possible, as what we described to you are not considered player-facing changes. I appreciate that you at least let us know that they're checking into it. Thank you.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:17

#38

Thimol

-----

this is no longer a tinfoil hat party

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:06

#39

No-Thanks

Zelda

/yes #37

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:09

#40

Eurydice

Community Manager

> It's possible, as what we

> It's possible, as what we described to you are not considered player-facing changes.

Changes to weapons are definitely player-facing! Hence the checking. :)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:23

#41

Chris

Thank you for posting here

Thank you for posting here Eurydice.

It's completely possible all of these changes are unintentional and 100% connection based, meaning a change in the server to client communication completely messed up all of our weapons, some more noticeably than others.

I really do appreciate you checking on this for us, and if the devs report no changes to what I have posted, an investigation into the connection problems should be done as SOMETHING is causing some weapons to act in incorrect ways a majority of the time

Changed the first post as we got GM attention!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:27

#42

Eurydice

Community Manager

Two different devs have now

Two different devs have now checked the commits and found that no changes to weapons were introduced.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:33

#43

Chris

Then, the changes to the

Then, the changes to the servers and or server-client interaction, is causing VERY negative results, which should be investigated.

I had a feeling this was the case, because of the things with polaris.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:40

#44

Eurydice

Community Manager

In the future, it'd be

In the future, it'd be appreciated if you'd simply ask "What's happening with [X], because I'm seeing this behavior?" rather than unfairly maligning innocent parties and presenting incorrect theories as "confirmed" fact. And if you think something's buggy, hit F2. The bug reports do get read.

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Definite "Player-Facing Changes" - Stealth Patch of 2/13/2012