Changes to Certain Charge Attacks
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 16:15
So, as most of you fellow Knights out there know, some charge attacks are just so horrible that there's no reason to ever use them, ever. Or they're just not worth their charge time. You know what lines I'm talking about- Antigua, Troika, Pulsar, Rocket Hammer, Gran Faust (not faust!), and Cutter.
So what's the issues with them right now?
Antigua- Shoots six bullets in a row at the same location. Holding still like this for such a small amount of time is counterproductive for a gunner... and especially for how little damage it does.
Troika- An overhead smash that stuns/freezes the enemy. Deals the rough equivalent of two normal hits. For how hard it is to land, and how slow it is, it deals very little damage: you'd deal more just regularly attacking.
Rocket Hammer- The charge attack is like two Troika overheads, with large AoE on the 5* version, dashing you forward 2 squares per overhead. This suffers from the same issue as a Troika, and can be even more situational because of how far it boosts you forward. Enemies that are knocked back are, presumably, meant to be caught in the second swing as well, but sometimes they go too far to the side unless you aim just right. For some reason the second hit deals damage slightly earlier than the animation. You deal the same amount of damage in a regular Hammer combo (with the dash included), so why bother?
Gran Faust- An otherwise fine charge with few major flaws, it shoots a giant sword projectile that can curse you and enemies, dealing a good amount of damage. It catches on walls like an Avenger. The problem is that it has a HUGE charge time compared to the Faust, and as far as I can observe, the only thing different between the two is the size of the bullet and the damage. Unless you have a high amount of CTR, the charge isn't good for anything but causing Curse from a distance without using a vial...
Cutter- A multi-hit, stationary, no-mid-attack-aim charge that doesn't stagger the enemies it hits, can be outdone in damage by regular combos, and leaves you extremely vulnerable. Why anyone would use this besides on Vanaduke's stunned mask I don't know.
So, how can these charges be made better? Here's my ideas. I'll add in other people's ideas and give them credit as posts come in (if posts come in!).
Antigua- Be able to aim mid-charge, deal slightly higher damage on all shots.
(Fluffyfoxxie) Alternatively, remove the five prior shots and only shoot the final bullet, the eagle/owl/piercing round.
Troika- Much higher damage, but no change to the range of attack or speed. Perhaps the ice line can get a hitbox for the ice, and the regular have stones drop down from above/rocks burst from the ground?
Rocket Hammer- Be able to aim the second hit as well, and fix the timing of the damage. Slightly higher damage, but not so much that it surpasses a Troika. The theme of the hammer is mobility, isn't it...?
Gran Faust- Charge time on-par with Faust, maybe even faster (or have it deal more damage) because IT'S A 5* AND THE FAUST IS IT'S PREDECESSOR. Hurrrrrr.
Cutter- Aim the attacks mid-charge, stop it at any time by shielding, stagger enemies easily, higher damage or charge time.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:24
#2
I'd like it if they changed
I'd like it if they changed the Antigua lines to remove the initial 5 shots and just have it shoot the piercing round/eagle.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:29
#3
Reply to Rawrcake
Antigua:
It might have potential for huge damage, but only in certain situations. Only the last shot pierces, and it only really shines against enemies that can't get out of the way or hit you while you're attacking, or in narrow areas. It's too situational.
Pulsar:
Who says it's a swordsman with a sidearm? It could be a Gunner with a backup sword. The charge isn't too applicable without anticipation or extremely high CTR, which a bomber probably wouldn't have because all the bonuses are going to be in their bombs. Against some enemies, it isn't smart to use the charge even with super-high CTR, like enemies that could easily dodge it or if the enemy would be knocked into a teammate; sometimes it's better just to shieldbump instead.
@Fluffyfoxxie That'd actually work pretty well, really, it seems easier to do than making every shot one you could aim...
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:39
#4
:o
+1 to Fluffyfoxxie's idea, it's the only reason I'd ever use AP's charge attack.
Pulsar's charge attack is not useful at all, nobody uses it even before party buttons.
At the same time though, Pulsar (And by general extension, Polaris) doesn't need a buff; it's too powerful as it is.
~Sev
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:41
#5
I have a kamarin, and im just
I have a kamarin, and im just happy with its charge. I find it very useful especially when im soloing and theres a huge mob of monsters bunched together coming at me. I move slower while charging, but i can move just fast enough to run a circle around them without getting hit, and if i wait for the right moment, BAM!, i drive them all the other side of room, damaging them all decently.
But i guess i wouldn't mind a buff on it, it would just make my sword better.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:42
#6
I guess you're right, Polaris
I guess you're right, Polaris is a little broken as far as guns go... I'll eliminate it from the list. I haven't used my Polaris for months, I forgot how ridiculous it is.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:48
#7
@Serell:
Sorry to break this to you, but...most people would say to stay away from the poor Troikas. They're as slow as you can get and can't justify it with their damage. =[
When you compare it to other weapons later on, you'll probably realize how useful a buff to the Troika-lines would be.
@Draycos:
I just hated to see all my guns get outclassed by this universally superior weapon...much less to see it get a buff. xD
~Sev
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 17:56
#8
@Severage :
Slow swords are
@Severage :
Slow swords are useful. Requires a different play style, a play style i exceed in. Yes, it doesn't do that much more damage than other swords, but it keeps the enemies far away from me. But you have to be real careful, can't just go swinging it. With low attack speed, you don't want to miss. If you miss, your not going to have enough time to bring your shield up to block the enemies attack. I guess it may need a buff, but i can't tell because i am really good with my kamarin, i do much better with it than other swords.
Slow-hitting weapons that deal lots of knockback and stun are my kind of weapons.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 18:08
#9
I don't know why the cutter
I don't know why the cutter charge needs to be changed, if you have the right gear for it it can out-damage alot of other swords. When i use it i get as much asi and damage increase i can have on it, then i charge against slow enimies, like trees and the new deployment enimies. If you have the right set up it can do alot of damage and be fast enough that you are safe from counter-attacks. I personaly don't see anything wrong with the cutter charge attack.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 18:41
#10
@Tuhui, Sev
The only situations a Cutter charge can be pulled off without taking severe damage is with Vanaduke's mask, a Battlepod, Seerus when he's stunned, a Mender with its shield up, and a Lumber when it's after someone else. It's useless to use in any other case that I can think of. If anything you should at least be able to aim it, stagger with it, and cancel it early, so it's a viable tactic against Lichens, some Gremlins, Skellies, and Trojans. It might even be usable in groups of enemies...
@Sev: Exactly, and giving people a reason to use its charge attack would be a step forward. In another thread I'd say it needs a buff, but this is about charge attacks...
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 18:48
#11
The charge does massive
The charge does massive amounts of damage and what can easily counter the charge can be managed by just normal attacks, I don't think the charge needs to be changed, that is my opinion.
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 19:04
#12
The things it does massive
The few things it does massive damage to are things that are generally harmless or has some other weapon that's even better in the situation.
Even with max ASI and a Dread Venom Striker, you can't stagger a T2 jelly cube. You just can't. A freaking jelly cube. Even with normal attacks. It needs a general buff, but this is concerning charge attacks...
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 19:17
#13
"normal weapons syndrome"
Normal weps in general need a bit of a buff all around. I've been told they've almost dropped off the face of the planet (save Nitronome for obvious reasons) because they're too weak when you can choose whatever weapon you like on every level.
Cutter line especially needs a boost on it's stagger ability. However, this has been suggested..... 5 times since I've joined... and I've only been around for I think 46 days. (I kid you not... my first post ever was in QOD's in treasure vault... that was on my first day of playing SK, I'll post a link if you don't believe me.)
Sa, 03/03/2012 - 19:57
#14
@Serell:
The problem with Troika-lines is that they are outclassed by Sealed Sword-lines; which work similarly in being large weapons, but the Sealed-Sword lines just do better damages/status effects honestly.
@Tuhui: Have you ever...ever used the Cutter Charge on a non-shivered enemy, and not gotten hit? I mean really, it's almost EXACTLY THE SAME as using a full combo without stopping or being able to shield. It's only if you are attacking a Shivered enemy or are desperately trying to poison the Jelly King.
~Sev
Di, 03/06/2012 - 20:16
#15
cutter charge attack
Hi all. I had an idea for the cutter's charge attack that I posted here, but I'll post it here too. from my other post:
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I've been using the cutter line of swords a lot recently. I find that they are actually pretty good swords if they are used properly. But, their charge attack is terrible because it leaves you wide open to attacks. In fact, the cutter's charge attack is its basic 5-hit combo, but without any movement. I think it could use a better charge attack.
So, I suggest changing the cutter line's charge attack to a rush-in type attack. When you unleash your attack you will dash to your mouse cursor. Any enemies that are close to the target location will get knocked down but will take no damage. Using the charge attack will count as a normal swing of your sword. This means that after you use the attack you can hit the enemy up to 4 more times. It will take a short time for your character to recover after the attack. This means that you can't immediately shield after using the attack, so you have to use the attack with care. (Yeah, I got the idea after playing League of Legends for a while.)
Of course, you should not be able to use the attack to dash over walls, through gates, or across chasms. Also, there should be a max range on the dash, so you can't dash across the screen with a 2* cutter. (You might be able to with a 5* dread venom striker though.) Further, some large enemies (like trojans, lumbers, and bosses) will be immune to the knockdown and interrupt affects of the attack.
This charge attack will also go well with the lore of the weapon. It's supposed to be an assassin's blade after all. (:
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Di, 03/06/2012 - 20:30
#16
Antigua Charge Attack
While I was thinking about it, I thought up of a possible solution for the antigua's charge attack.
I suggest changing the antigua's charge attack so that all bullets move though their targets. This means that each bullet can hit several enemies if the enemies are grouped together or lined up in a row. I would extend the range of each bullet slightly, but not by much. I would reduce the damage to normal damage for each bullet except the last one. The gunner should be able to move at half speed while unloading the barrage, but they should not be able to adjust their aim during this time.
Di, 03/06/2012 - 22:45
#17
I support this, the cutter
I support this, the cutter line needs a useful charge attack. As well as those other weapons.
For the antigua / pulsar observation
Antigua:
It can deal way over 3000 damage in one charge, the falcon is ridiculous AoE damage to packs of things and can occasionally clip a zombie 4 times.
It might leave you vulnerable, you just have to use it correctly.
Pulsar:
Not everyone that wields a pulsar is a swordsman using a sidearm, in fact bombers might have a Polaris sidearm without a sword. Its charge attack is fine, useful for knocking multiple things a good distance away from being able to shield bump them while not letting your shield possibly take damage. It's made for pure gunners. Not every part of every gun should be based on swordsman.
It really shines with Ultra - Max CTR to bring a monster that is a distance from you but still too close to that distance where normal shots can expand. Its a bullet fanning corrector, basically.
-1 to the gun changes.