Spiral Knights - Yet another Winmillion Extension thread

Yet another Winmillion Extension thread

6 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:54

Spookington

** 02/2013 : Whoa. Totally forgot this still existed. It's about time I got rid of it. Don't think anyone wants to discuss it anyways. **

I apologize if this subject is discussed too much.

Reason:

I think the Winmillion line deserves an extension because it serves the unique niche of being a sword that can fire projectiles. This differentiates it from the other fast-attack swords like the Cutter series and the Flourish series. I believe this on its own is enough to warrant an extension.

Execution:

I personally would like to see it branch into a three-pronged tree after Winmillion. Naturally, a normal-damage 5-star variant would be a solid extension, and it would function like an upgraded Winmillion. Perhaps the projectiles could fly slightly farther, or the attack speed increased, or the attack power slightly increased (I feel like too much of an increase would over-power the weapon), or perhaps more and smaller projectiles per swing that only travel a shorter distance.

Here are my ideas for two other variants at the 5-star level. I'm listing them separate from the aforementioned NRM-damage weapon because I feel their inclusion would be far more disagreeable, and I am far more open to discussing their specifics (though I am up for discussing anything Winmillion-related; it's why I wanted to start a thread on the subject). The nicknames in parentheses are just my personal ideas on what they should be called. I really don't care what they're named, TBH.

*Elemental-Damage Winmillion: (Nickname: "Unstable Wind")

Similar to the Brandish line of weapons, this variant could deal elemental damage. However, like the respective lines this would deal much lower damage per swing at the benefit of being much faster. One of the main complaints I have with the vanilla Winmillion is it's rather weak, useless, and otherwise ineffectual charge attack. Like the Brandishes, I would personally like to see the giant projectile get a high chance to inflict some kind of strong elemental effect like shock, fire, freeze, etc.

To be more specific about the charge attack, I think it would be neat to see it travel some distance (Like it's predecessor) but then explode at the end, like a brandish, and deal a random status effect. I feel like a random status effect (similar to the Sealed Sword) would make it less predictable and detract from the charge attack being abused. It would still travel as fast as the current charge-disk, meaning it would still slower than the series explosions of the Brandishes.

*Shadow-damage Winmillion: (Nickname: "A Black Wind" - "A black wind blows through you, reducing all of your equipment and armor to level 1!") **I have no desire to see a weapon or armor nullifying weapon, I just wanted to make a Cave Story reference!**

A basic shadow-damage variant. Would work a lot like the Nightblade/Acheron branch of the Brandish line, but with less damage/fires projectiles/faster attack speed/etc. Just like my elemental-dmg idea, it would basically just be a Winmillion that deals shadow damage. Unlike the elemental-damage idea, I think the charge attack projectile should not explode. While I really like the Cave Story reference and the fact that this would add to the still relatively small list of shadow damage weapons (small at least IMO) I can't really think of much else to add - perhaps some suggestions for my suggestion?

**If you notice, I did not add a piercing-damage weapon. This is simply because I don't know how it could be added visually while not ripping off the Barbarous Thorn Blade. I definitely think it could be done, I just don't think it's necessary. I'd just give the concept of a fast-attacking piercing sword to the Cutter line. But then again, that's all IMO.

**I could not care for what these weapons look like aesthetically. For all I care they could just be pallet-swaps of the current Winmillion. Just want to see the tree completed with some variety and choice.

Discussion:

As said, I would like to hear criticism of my ideas and how they could be improved. These are rough concepts and thus do not have any specific damage/attack speed tables. It's more or less the concept of a NRM, SHAD, & ELMT - damage trident that I think would be an interesting way to complete the alchemy tree. While it would make sense to have it branch off before Winmillion (like say at Spur or Arc Razor), due to the high number of players who probably already have Winmillion I feel it would be a severe inconvenience to have to create and heat a new line of the tree after carrying around an existing Winmillion for so long. This would also allow players who would become interested in wielding this line to kind of practice and get a hang of the weapon in it's previous forms. Once again, that is all IMO.

My intention is to extend Winmillion without over-powering it. Improving it, but not de-clawing it for Tier 3. Some balance suggestions would be appreciated.

I enjoy this game and whether or not this, or anything similar to this, is ever implemented would not detract from my already-high opinion. Good job, OOO. I just personally think it is a shame that such a fine weapon like Winmillion has such a limited Alchemy tree with no 5-star upgrade.

Now I should stop talking, as I am eager to hear your own suggestions and opinions.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:24

Portaller

I like your idea,

I like your idea, Spookington.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 09:05

Metoxys

The Winmillion really needs

The Winmillion really needs some love... and a 5* version, no matter if elemental or not (I'd prefer Normal tbh)

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:12

Elegies

I'd Agree!

The Winmillion has always been one of my favorite weapons. I'd love to see some 5* development.

I'd add the following to OP:

1) The charge attack needs serious love, as OP mentioned. It's useless.

2) The range of the air-swirls after should get longer with each * added.

3) I'd make an argument for making it so wolvers, fiends/etc stop dodging the air-blasts. Very annoying and greatly reduces the strength of the weapon.

I feel like the weapon struggles because it doesn't have a clear role--it's a sword that includes ranged damage, but the ranged portion is relatively weak. It's fast like a cutter. It lacks status/elemental/shadow. I'm not really sure when it would be worth it to use a 5* winmillion over an alternative.

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 02:41

Skold-The-Drac

5*'ing Winmillion

Let me start by adding a hefty +1 ton brick on this.

Now, I'd like to add some of my own things...

As OP mentioned. Current charge to winmillion SUCKS! It needs 1 of 3 changes.

Change 1: Make it act as a vortex.

I personally believe actually making the swirl PULL enemies together could easily open-up the winmillion for a crowd-control sword slot. You suck up the enemy (i'd suggest a maximum of 3* vortex level pull at 5* at 1/2 rad of vortex.) into a neat ball and then go in swinging. This could potentially require a slightly faster bullet as well... but I think making a vortex effect would seriously add to the cool factor. (My personal wish)

Change 2: Non-bullet reaction

Instead of the enemy dodging the charge... make it pass through the enemy and have them not recognize it as a bullet. From what I can tell the Avenger bullets have the same characteristics... so...

Change 3: Multi-projectile (aka the common chargespam method)

Make the sword spout out multitiple projectiles of doom. Tenhuo ftw (sure that it's spelled wrong but meh.)

Status + Spur

I believe one of two ways can be gone about this...

Simply make a 5* that randomizes status (popularity would be immense for this sword for those who loved SS line) as OP mentions.

Or, make it where there's either a small chance to strong or med chance for med/weak for all swings/charge on spur-line. Why? Cause the simple charge = status crud of the brandish is annoying enough... we do not need another brandish wannabee (unless you somehow merge this with the aforementioned vortex idea)

I think that's all the more I think I'd want to discuss atm. I really don't wanna see another brandish... i think borrowing the brandish explosion could just take away from the spur overall. I do feel a light vortex mechanic on the charge would make it feel like a better weapon.... but that's just me.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 04:56

Kellnox

Slight change.

The OP's ideas are good, the Elemental sword is nice, but we already have so many. FoV, DA, Brandishes, Hammer... We only have two shadow ones, and four piercing (except honestly, BTB and FF are the same, aside from the looks and charge, and the Flamberge and Rigadoon are near useless compared to them...), so maybe we COULD have a piercing Spur? The blade could be serrated, like a more extreme version of the Winmillion's blade. With this, we'd have:

4 Elemental: Brandishes, DA, FoV, Hammer
3 Shadow: Acheron, GF, Nightwind (Good name? :D)
4 Piercing: BTB (FF is almost the same), Flamberge, Rigadoon, Piercing Spur

Nicely balanced, maybe we could get a Shadow-damage Almirian Spear or something to make it perfect. :D

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:53

Spookington

At last, I have returned!

@Skold: I like your vortex idea, or at least the notion of an alchemy path that changes the niche of the spur line to that of crowd-control. Interesting. For the sake of balance, instead of having enemies not recognize the projectiles as bullets, perhaps we could make it so that the projectiles had a high chance of stunning enemies - thus making it easier to single-enemy-nuke slow enemies like lumbars and allow multiple follow-up hits on smaller, faster and dodge-happy enemies like Gremlins and Devilites. If we incorporate the vortex idea with the stun projectiles, we would have weapon that could potentially allow users to slow enemies down, charge up, and hit them with a vortex they will be less likely to dodge due to the previous stuns.

My take on it:

* "Vacuum Capacitor" (Lame name, I know; still trying to make the whole "windmill"-"wind"-"air" connection. A vacuum being the absence of air, since this sword doesn't seem to move enemies away, but to suck them in)

Could do roughly the same damage as the current windmillion, but have a lower charge time, and projectiles would have a good to high chance of causing a strong stun effect. The vortex would work like the Gravitron-line of bombs. The stuns, in conjunction with the fast charge time could lead to an interesting combo. Perhaps this could do Shadow Damage to make it even more effective at hunting gremlins, and to function a little more like the Gravitron vortex. To keep it from rendering the Gravitron Useless though, maybe the area of effect radius could be smaller, or do less damage, or maybe be high-damage, but last for an even shorter amount of time than what the bomb offers. Wonder how well this thing could do for kiting enemies... Hmmm...

Only issue would be the potential for abuse of this thing in non-clockworks game-modes, ESPECIALLY with auto-aim.

@Kellnox: Now that you mention it, I agree: due to the already tremendous size of the elemental sword category perhaps an elemental version shouldn't be included, although I still like the idea of a random status-inflicting projectile.

Putting more thought into the 'piercing spur line' idea, I came up with the one below:

* "Steel Breeze" (Pink Floyd reference, ha!):

A dark-iron recolor of winmillion that shoots 3 - 4 spines (Like BTB's charge projectiles) per swing. The projectiles would be VERY short range, but like the BTB, they would serve to work create a shotgun effect when fighting closely-packed soft-bodied enemies like a pack of wolvers, and to make it harder to side-dodge by enemies such as Devilites. Both the sword and the projectiles do piercing damage. The charge attack could either launch a volley of spikes in a complete circle around the knight (like a spikey ranged version of the Leviathan Blade's charge attack - or for a better example, a 360 degree version of what BTB does when charged) or fire a large circular saw at enemies.

Entertaining the saw blade idea: The saw blade would be slow moving like the current charge, but do continuous damage to enemies caught in it's path, blow through multiple enemies, and have long range (Anywhere from the length of a line of Brandish explosions to that of a gun). Perhaps to balance it could move slightly slower at the advantage of hitting harder?

* "Unstable Anomaly" (Once again, place-holder name):

Functions like Winmillion in regards to firing a single projectile per swing and dealing normal damage, with the exception of perhaps being faster and dealing more damage per hit and projectiles (sort of like what you would expect of a pretty vanilla upgrade to do. However, this time the charge and the regular projectiles themselves have a chance of a random status effect! Normal-swing projectiles could do normal damage, but have a slight chance (similar to the chances of being poisoned by the Dread Venom Striker) of afflicting enemies with a random status. The charge attack disc could travel fast and would have a higher or very high chance of doing this too, with the addition of also slightly tracking enemies and exploding on contact.

I use the term "slightly" because I do not want this to turn out like a seeker-missile like weapon similar to what the rocket puppies have. By "track enemies" I mean that if something like a Gremlin or Devilite dodges it by a few degrees to the side while still being in it's path, it could slightly arc it's path and hit them in that stalling-moment they always seem to have in between jumps; nothing of the sort of having it loop back and hit something from behind. That would be OP as all Hell.

I'm curious how a weapon like this could be balanced, though - less attack damage? No tracking on the charge? A possible mechanism that could negatively affect the player (similar to how Faust line swords have a chance of cursing the user?)? Perhaps a very slow charge time like the heavy sword lines?. Not sure how it would work in game, but I like the idea of random status weapons.

Not sure if this makes it an incredibly shameless self-bump, but I'm interested to hear more ideas. I apologize if it seems like I'm dominating the concept ideas here.

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Yet another Winmillion Extension thread