So we won't be able to make all 8 shards hit a single monster anymore?

1. The initial explosion will have knockback then? Enough to propel the enemy to exploding ring that the projectiles will make?

So would an accurate depiction of this be like this: A blast bomb that shoots out gremlin mines in 8 directions.

Disappointing. Point blank shard bombing was a high risk/reward technique that required intimate knowledge of enemy attack sequences to deal optimum damage. The new bomb sounds like it'll have a much lower skill ceiling, and less room for technical maneuvering. Shame, considering shard bombs are what rejuvinated my interest in the game - if it weren't for them, I'd probably have gotten bored six months ago.

5* Shard bombs? Want.

This change is... Interesting. I will likely get one now, cause the way it is described sounds cool. Though if we want an official response, we need Doctorspacebar.

The single target will be horribly reduced. Rss never had much aoe in a mob, unless they were seriously dangerously packed together. The proposed changes seem like it would increase aoe dps.

I'm kinda hoping it won't be the next Nitronome, as much as I'd LOVE a clusterbomb.

Well, I truly enjoyed the RSS... It is,or, was my favorite bomb in my arsenal, both in utility and in the fun department. Regardless of what this change brings, it's gonna be a sad day for bombers. When I asked for "moar bomz", I didn't mean replace my favorite one with some other mechanic LOL. I honestly can't see why the idea of shrapnel is so "off-flavor" for bombs, but it is what it is, I guess.

Since this seems to be a purely flavor-driven change, some flavor-related questions:

1. Was the intent to give the RSS a cluster bomb feel that fits the "random, zany antics" of a bomber, what with all the ensuing explosions and knockback? Also, with the current known complaints about Nitro (BSOD, etc) how will the new RSS mechanics match up? Can we expect more of the same or can we expect something else?

2. I am well aware of what RSS was capable of in the clockworks. So, The Big Lockdown Question - was RSS's effectiveness in LD a factor in the change? In other words, was it just too powerful?

3. Considering everything, is this change intended to bring the bomb more comfortably to "sidearm" status? Or can we bombers expect to hang onto some semblance our reliable, damage-dealing bomb?

From what I understand, the damage per shard is staying the same for the 4*. I doubt you'll have to worry about DPS on the 5*, then. Having a bomb reliably hit a single target 8 times with little skill is not AoE, it's an IED. Bombs are meant to be AoE, and the shards were never good AoE.

With practice, I think most people can land the bombs on turrets. That's assuming the range isn't random, which probably won't be. Although the damage will likely not be as much. We might not have 8 bombs, we might have 4, 6, or more bombs scattered in a circle around the blast zone. We just don't know.

With the bombs landing against walls/obstacles though, we could still land multiple hits in a small area. It's just going to be harder.

So we can have swords and Guns with AoE damage like bombs but we cant have a bomb with gun like abilities?

This could either be a blessing or a curse for bombers. On one hand, we won't be able to nail Trojans directly in the back anymore- DBB is now the weapon of choice for Arkus and company. Also, this obviously means the range is decreased- and that is bad. A Bomb that can hit targets far away is a must for those pure demo-men who don't want to be driven crazy by picking up pots or horribly mauled by Howlitzers. (RSS is currently the go-to Howlitzer-killing weapon for pure Bombers; Polyps and Gunpups can be killed with a DR, but the RSS is our only viable weapon against Howlitzers.) To kill a turret, we have to charge up a bomb, then approach the offending turret and drop it, usually after they've fired, and if they survive, we gotta do it over again. SHEESH. DR's heavy damage against stationary targets makes this a viable tactic (i mean, have you SEEN it on Polyps?!) but it does very little to Howlitzers. It's also an Expansion only weapon, which pees off some people and will continue to do so until you make the expansion gift-able.

As far as LD goes, RSS and ISB seem like they'll be turned from spammable deterrents into another way of making a base No-Man's-Land, this one involving damage instead of status. That's always nice, considering SOMEONE stuck us with invincibility frames that make DR next to useless. Whether the 5* RSS is used to any effect in LD, I can't say.

Those are my only objections. I have to say this will give RSS a use in Shielding enemies; the shards will hop over shields and blast them in the back. Very nice. Hopefully the RSS is still viable after this remix.

EDIT: Nick, while you're looking at this, a more pressing matter must be attended to. You messed up the Pepperbox. Please fix it. Also, Gingermace, thank you for calling me a professional.

EDIT2: Oh yeah, I forgot. THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE ISB GOOD FOR SLIMES! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

This update would be really good for PvE, giving bombers what I think is an even more solid damage bomb, especially for mobs. Of course, this may screw things over in LD, but I'm thinking while there is less random RSS sniping, it may be more effective than a nitronome as players may not expect the second explosion/ predict where it is, etc.

But as has been mentioned: Will there be more bombs to fill in the uses of the old RSS, such as turret sniping?

Bombs exploding into more bombs?
Sounds OP.

Well this is a bomb concept that I have always very much wanted due to jealously of Gremlin Demos and would love if it came out of the crystal series or replaced the currently useless ISB but it replacing it and the RSS is very saddening. The problem with this bomb is that it sounds like it's going to be more chaotic than a Nitronome and will quickly become a very hated weapon in parties due to the sporadic knockback that the 9 explosions will cause unless they don't do knockback which will just make this a different version of the DR although that's not too terrible.

I don't mean to go on a tangent but it just strikes me odd to target it for not being bomb-like as the Biohazard is very bomb-like despite being a gun and the Winmillion is intentionally gun-like despite being a sword along with other weapons that deviate from the supposed "norm" that the weapon types should follow.

Whatever you do with it, I hope you make sure to avoid making it a hated bomb that isn't the fun little thing that I love so much due to the risky nature it makes the player take getting so close to enemies without any capability of defense but the satisfying reward the well placed bomb can be while not visually disrupting players(Like the explosions or hazes of most bombs) or moving around the enemies(Like the blast bomb lines and all swords do) in order not to interrupt other players.

Sincerely, a player who loves the current RSS.

Speaking as someone who crafted an RSS just three hours before the announcement (!@#$%), I really appreciate that you're looking into ways to compensate people who paid for one mechanic and will now get something completely different. This will be a big shift on a popular bomb, and I for one really appreciate that you're including a respectful gesture to customers as part of the design change. I hope that whatever gesture is made, it's in keeping with the fact that people paid real money for an item, rather than an accessory. A memorial item (the "I used to have an RSS and now I have this t-shirt" crest) would be unappealing.

That said, by making the emphasis on the ring of secondary blasts, it occurs to me that the preferred bomb radius for the new RSS will be flipped inside out. Whereas most bombs get an expanded radius at 5* (which is better), here the optimal situation would be a bomb with a tight radius, so that enemies would be hit by as many of the secondary blasts as possible.

I'm gladdened to see that the rock salt bomb's bonus is also being revisited. At the moment, it's a pretty silly bomb. One other thing that you can do to instantly win the love of every bomber is to revisit the available armors, and create a bomber armor with shadow defense. That's been a frequent request of late, given that so much end game content emphasizes shadow-themed monsters.

"With guns that act like bombs (Pulsars, Catalyzers) and sword charges that act like guns (Brandish, Sealed Swords) it makes me wonder why a bomb acting like a gun is a bad thing."
I totally support your view at this matter.

Nick's idea seem like a bit hypocritical. "The current shard-style bombs are functionally, not very bomb-like. They are the standouts in the system we’ve tried to build whereby: guns fire bullets, bombs create areas of damage, and swords do a mix of the two."

The last gun patch was to make the Blaster line of guns' charge shot to have an explosion plus knockback.

Would you say a grenade is not a bomb because it shoots out shards as well?

To Nick: Why do you guys make more drastic changes to bombs more often than other weapons in the entire game?
-The Big Angry Bomb has been reduced to a smaller radius due to one of your patches, which made it less usable because of the walk speed and reduction in blast radius.
-Another drastic change was to the Dark Retribution Bomb, which decreased the damage and speed of the orbits.

I have a better suggestion, why don't we keep this line of bombs untouched, and just create a brand new one instead.

The whole idea of Radiant Sun Shard, which is shooting out shards has been turned to (according to your description) Chinese Firecracker Bomb, "will then stick into the ground and explode shortly thereafter causing a series a of explosions that form a kind of ‘ring’ around the initial placement point of the bomb."
http://www.china-family-adventure.com/image-files/chinese-new-year-firec...

Even though Nick is not going to reply to this comment, I would like other fellow active bombers to express their opinions as well.

My favorite part was when Nick called it the "Ionized ROCK Salt Bomb", combined with the part where only a few players commented with questions on the actual patches, as opposed to the real questions, which were asked later by many other players who will most likely not be heard. Its one thing to answer a few questions and call it quits, and another to read through and actually deal with the situation, which means that Nick will most likely not answer too many more questions if even return to this thread.

Why does OOO seem so insistent on messing with bombs that are already good but never seems interested in the bombs that are totally useless? Leave RSS alone and apply this change to the Irontech bomb.

I sort of have mixed feelings about this.

In PvP, I hate going against Radiant Sun Shards because I often get killed by a stray shard when I'm low on health, or I accidentally walk over the bomb and basically get killed in one shot.

However, in PvE, Radiant Sun Shards is tolerable because it doesn't have knockback. Knockback is one of the main reasons people hate having a Nitronome bomber in their party. If the knockback of the new RSS is significant, I can see people kicking bombers who use it in PvE.

It would be nice if they allowed players to test the new functionality before committing to these changes.

I have a RSS, It is rather fun to use on Zombies, Lumbers, and turrets. The current version of it is decent in PvE and very good in PvP if you know how to use it (like every weapon). The people that use it in PvP will be annoyed if the new version isn't as good but that will be the majority of the complaints on it I think.

5* versions of the shard bombs is fantastic! I personally am looking forward to seeing how they work. The possibility of new bombs also makes me very happy. New weapons are always welcome... although it would be nice if Bombers got some actual Shadow armor and a pure Elemental damage bomb (not mist or crowd control).

~Gwen

"I have a better suggestion, why don't we keep this line of bombs untouched, and just create a brand new one instead."
--Roarr

^My thoughts exactly.