Low-Radius Vaporizer Branching
sam, 08/11/2012 - 23:40
Concept:
A new branch for each Vaporizer that offers increased damage output, a larger blast radius, and stronger status afflictions at the cost of lower haze radius and haze duration. The bombs in these new branches will be known as Spritzer (subject to change).
Spritzers will all indicate only a slightly larger blast radius than their 2* (★★☆☆☆) components, and will produce a haze that covers that same radius. This radius is equivalent to 2 tiles.
Unlike existing Vaporizers, Spritzers will damage all enemies within that 2 tile radius upon detonation. The amount of damage dealt will be pure Elemental damage, and against neutral targets (Slimes and Fiends) will be roughly equivalent to the Blast Bomb of the same star rating. According to some of the data on the wiki (the data is inconsistent) this represents somewhere between 30% and 50% of additional damage for Spritzers when compared to existing Vaporizers.
The other difference between Spritzers and Vaporizers is that the haze produced by each Spritzer will only last 3 seconds, as opposed to 5. However, each haze comes with a Good chance of inflicting Moderate status (I believe that's a 3/3 according to Luguiru's notation, but whatever). In other words, the haze fades faster, but the status lasts longer.
Spritzers will retain the same charge time and fuse time as their Vaporizer counterparts.
Summary:
Advantages:
- Increased damage output (30-50% more than corresponding Vaporizers)
- Increased initial detonation radius (2 squares of immediate blast damage instead of 1)
- Stronger status affliction (4/3 instead of 4/2)
Drawbacks:
- Largely decreased mist radius upon upgrading (2 squares instead of 3 or 4)
- Shorter mist duration (3 seconds instead of 5)
Consistencies:
- No knockback
- Same charge/fuse time (I believe 3 and 2 seconds, respectively)
Alchemy Paths:
Note: Again, all new names are subject to change.
Fiery Vaporizer★★★☆☆ | Flame Spritzer★★★★☆ | Flame Spritzer Mk II★★★★★ | Incinerator
Freezing Vaporizer★★★☆☆ | Sleet Spritzer★★★★☆ | Sleet Spritzer Mk II★★★★★ | Glacial Grenade
Haze Bomb★★★☆☆ | Stun Spritzer★★★★☆ | Stun Spritzer Mk II★★★★★ | Cripple Capsule
Static Capacitor★★★☆☆ | Thunder Spritzer★★★★☆ | Thunder Spritzer Mk II★★★★★ | Surge Emitter
Toxic Vaporizer★★★☆☆ | Sickly Spritzer★★★★☆ | Sickly Spritzer Mk II★★★★★ | Epidemic
Vendors:
Recipes for Flame, Sleet, and Sickly Spritzers can be purchased from Remi (Hall of Heroes).
Recipes for Flame, Sleet, Sickly, and Thunder Spritzers can be purchased from Basil.
Recipes for Stun Spritzers can be purchased from Sullivan using Krogmo Coins.
Concept Art:
Pending. I may or may not cook something up in Spiral-Spy, depending on whether this gets positive feedback. If it's not worth my effort, there's no need for me to waste that effort.
What I had in mind was something similar to existing Vaporizers, but with little canisters of status-themed liquids instead of crystals or whatever's in Vaporizers.
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I'm open to all feedback, so let me hear what you think of these things.
dim, 08/12/2012 - 11:40
#2
Someone enjoys those 1* status bombs
When I saw this thread I thought it was going to have a higher status affliction rate with a smaller radius to make it like (the old) Big Angry but instead of more damage and knockback it has a stronger status. Statuses have two parts: rate to inflict and degree of affliction, both of which go from one to four:
- Rate/Chance to inflict
- Slight
- Fair
- Moderate
- Good
- Degree of affliction
- Weak
- Minor
- Moderate
- Strong
So if it has a good chance of strong that would be a 4/4 rate (not 4/4 as in four out of four, which would equate to a whole/100%). Vaporizers all have a good chance to inflict minor (4/2) of their status, which creates a cloud for three seconds which has the highest possible success rate to inflict its status while the cloud is up. When afflicted the status seems to last three seconds. Vaporizers allow the user to cover a large group of enemies to inflict a status, though it may not last particularly long, still covers the largest area of effect as a bomb. These things are big. However, the damage from the initial detonation is limited to a very short range (one space radius around the epicenter).
Before anything is set in stone I have one question: is this supposed to be the Big Angry of Vaporizers (smaller, but more bang for the buck) or just an element bomb with statuses slapped on?
A smaller damaging radius than Nitronome, which its damage is based on, means it can have a redeeming factor; in this case a significant rate for a status. Look back at the old Big Angry. It had more damage per blast but a lower blast radius, longer charge time, and still has a slow fuse rate. Everything but its raw damage was bad. With the update its radius was increased and stun was slapped on. What did this do? Apparently people wanted it because the name is "Big" and "Angry", not tiny little death ball. For those who actually used it, Big Angry was not meant for its area of effect; it was for more damage against less targets similar to how the old shard bombs were used for multi-impacts. If we compare Blast and Vaporizer lines, both have a significant area of effect with decent rates (damage/status). With the old Blast branch alternatives you would give up certain characteristics for others, such as the family bonus for Deconstructor line. Give up general damage, get a family bonus. Tradeoffs. With old Big Angry you got more damage per hit but lost out on other stats. Tradeoffs. If we had a Big Angry version for Vaporizers it would have to give up a few things to gain more damage and status rates. It wants more damage and status. Those are its offensive benefits. You want more damage and status rates. However, the first loss is a whole two spaces in radius. Alright. What about charge time? Same as its brother Vaporizers, about three seconds. Alright. What about fuse time? Considering the advantages on this thing, it would either be the same or slower. Alright. What about upgrade paths, starting at 3*? For Vaporizers the 2* has a cloud radius of 1.5, 3* has a cloud radius of two, 4* has a cloud radius of three, and 5* has a cloud radius of four. With the Spritzers by upgrading to 3* the radius would still be two, but it would not increase for 4*+. What about the status and damage rates? Seeing as Vaporizers already have a 4/2 rate, we can either give Spritzers 4/3 or 4/4 depending on the damage. We would need to know exact durations for all degrees to be sure, but it would definitely have to have at least the damage of Nitronome line and 4/3 or 4/4 status rate.
Indexed. Honk.
dim, 08/12/2012 - 15:47
#3
No moar knockback bombs!
No moar knockback bombs! Make sure to include that these will not cause the devil knockback!
dim, 08/12/2012 - 16:01
#4
Isnt the radius of the 2* vaporizers too small? Mainly for the mist part, even if it's a strong status.
dim, 08/12/2012 - 16:01
#5
Isnt the radius of the 2* vaporizers too small? Mainly for the mist part, even if it's a strong status.
lun, 08/13/2012 - 02:13
#6
Dem Responses
@Verodius
Yes, at the end of the Concept section it was written that these would have the same charge and fuse time as existing Vaporizers.
@The-Rawrcake
These were not intended to cause any knockback. I'll be sure to include that.
@Luguiru
These were meant to be an alternative form of Vaporizers, not Elemental bombs with statuses or extensions of those 1* bombs, so I guess they could be called the Big Angry of Vaporizers. What I originally had in mind was something that would involve a little more risk when using a Vaporizer-like bomb in return for an offensive boost.
Let's lay out the kinds of tradeoffs going on here.
Advantages:
- Increased damage output (30-50% more than corresponding Vaporizers)
- Increased initial detonation radius (2 squares of immediate blast damage instead of 1)
- Stronger status affliction (4/3 instead of 4/2)
Drawbacks:
- Largely decreased mist radius upon upgrading (2 squares instead of 3 or 4)
- Shorter mist duration (3 seconds instead of 5)
@Little-Juances
See above, I suppose. Whereas Vaporizers are generally intended for more supportive roles (crowd control and/or consistent damage from statuses), these bombs tend more to the offensive side of things.
jeu, 08/16/2012 - 01:19
#7
So at this point I assume that it would indeed not be worth the effort to whip up some concept art...
jeu, 08/16/2012 - 05:55
#8
Would suggest two things.
5* gets 3 squares, 4* gets 2.5 squares, this way bombers "feel"/"see" the difference. As has been the case with all bombs, radius/radii change(s) when the bomb is upgraded, if only minutely.
Apart from that, most the math and logistics appear right for such a weapon. And LD bombers would once again have a slight advantage in their making of no-man's-land... a bomb series that will not be denied it's ferocity by means of trinkets and UV's.
Warning, attempts at name-changing ahead:
Would also request "shower" be used for those bomb equivalants to "atomizer"(fire,freeze,toxic), "capacitor"(shock) equivalant to be renamed to "resonator", and "burst"(stun) equivalant renamed to "cloud".
So basically....
- Flame/Sleet/Sickly Shower
- Thunder Resonator
- Stun Cloud
Mk II can be used for them, and still does not detract much in sense of power for the 5*/Name level of bomb.
I feel the stun variant could use an attempt at renaming, capsule feels like a poor usage for something emitting what will essentially be a cloud.
Possibly Cripple Vector?
Also feel dropping the 2 word appeal of vapor lines could be a no-no, so in attempt to offer a 2 word name for toxic bomb, I've thought up the terms "Plague Vector", "Scourge Mist", "Plague Mist" and "Blight Shroud"
Just attempting to help it all along. Go ahead and come up with some concept art. I'd love seeing the new bomb(s).
jeu, 08/16/2012 - 08:32
#9
Do it
All you need are the base models for 3*+. The variations can be recolored to match the similar Vaporizer line. Be sure to identify which parts are different colors. Vaporizer lines all have three different colors (excluding little designs on parts of the model, such as the little button, which is actually matched to one of the colors).
jeu, 08/16/2012 - 08:37
#10
Processing Thoughts of You Always
Elemental damage bombs?
Decent strength status?
Do eet.
+ 1
jeu, 08/16/2012 - 08:37
#11
Processing Thoughts of You Always
Elemental damage bombs?
Decent strength status?
Do eet.
+ 1
ven, 08/17/2012 - 18:07
#12
Do you by chance have any pasta?
Hetalia says, "bump"
dim, 08/19/2012 - 02:54
#13
Wow nifty idea! I like it -
Wow nifty idea! I like it - vaporizers need some variants to them (cold snap is also a good one, too bad it's only 1*)
Some more Damage-focused Elemental bombs would be very welcome, since all Bombers have for Elemental damage right now is the Electron Vortex (PvP-only) the Shard Bombs (crap) and the Vaporizers (Poor charge-to-damage ratio.)
I take it these have the same charge time as regular Vaporizers?