Spiral Knights - Some tweaks that could be made to make SK better.

Some tweaks that could be made to make SK better.

24 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 13:15

Fight-Men

Hello everybody again :)

So, i talked to some my guildmates and friends about some adjustments to the game and most of them agree on this, so i guessed I should put it in there to be discussed by the comunity.

*First lets talk about Lockdown:
It has a lot of potential but needs some work in order to be fair, fun and at the same time challenging. I see a lot of players complaining about teams, wepons and the lockdown itself...
Some things that could be done to solve some wrath among the player:

- There should be weapons that were forbiden to use in Lockdown, such as Polaris and all the other weapons with OP spam.
- LD matchmaking should be rebalanced, as I sometimes see some teams that are 5 players with 5* gear, with trinkets and lots of UVs VS the opposing team that is 2 or 3 players 5* with some UVs and/or trinkets and the rest of the team is 4* players with no UVs/trinkets... Some might think that this doesn't make any diference, but it does a lot of diference...

*Now about the DMs:
Sure the DMs were made, as the name sugests, to be dificult, and OOO made a good job on giving us tough assignments. But some people complain a lot about them. Surely they complain because they aren't tough or they don't use the proper equipment and/or strategy, but other than that they could be tweaked too.

- Mostly in the Ghosts In The Machine mission, there's a huge amount of performance issues (lag, screen freezes and your knight being "teleported"). This mission could be better code-optimized.
- I also heard that in DMs the shield has some issues, like being activated and still players get hit by enemies that can pass through the shield without any trouble.

*About the game in general:
This is one of the most addicting games that I played. It has a great oportunity to be played by many more players, even Linux users (like me) can play this game! And I can see whether a game is good or not... And this game is good ^^

- I see that Mecha Knights now perform a 4 hit combo, so i ask: how is a shield going to whitstand that? My opinion is that, or the Mechas return to the "classic 3 hit combo" or at least nerf the damage they do.
- Hall Of Heroes should be removed from the game, as it completely ruined the recipe runs, we, players used to make... In my opinion those runs were an important thing of the game, as you played with new people. I think that was a great help to the in-game fellowship.
- Even with the minimum detail graphics, the game lags. I see that even on the lowest quality there is smoke, sparkles and effects like that... That could be removed, as it lowers the need for CPU and GPU rendering (it would help a lot of players who dont have that much processing power).
- Another thing is that many times you are playing the position of your Knight is not the same in the server. This can be know while you drop a bomb and it appears beside you, not under you. Any way this could be corrected?

Please do make more sugestions that you think that are good tweaks to the game!
And I would like to see the comunity discussing this.

Thank you one more time :)

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 13:31

Oatmonster

Lick

No banned weapons. That is a lazy solution that doesn't actually blance the weapons. It also screws over anyone who spent tons of CR rolling for UVs on those weapons.

I'm all for more balanced teams but that would take a crap load of coding and it isn't really a priority right now.

Danger missions aren't too difficult.

How would you better "code-optimize" a set of levels? Remove projectiles, shock, enemies? If you're getting terrible quality it's either because you live far away from their servers, you have a bad ISP/plan, or your computer sucks.

Get an elemental shield, and don't try to tank all their hits. Mecha Knights are fine.

Yes

In a way, that's like trying to play BF3 on a crap computer and asking dice to change the game so that you can.

Again, that's caused by living far away from the server, or having a generally bad internet connection.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 14:06

Luguiru

I probably stopped myself from posting it, but I remember starting a list of recipes to remove from Halls while keeping certain others. Basically, removing the majority of recipe lines and only offering up to one line for each branch (if an item has more than one option to upgrade, most of those stays in Halls; the rest are only available through Basil). Speaking of Basil, take him out of mission lobbies. Recipes which are not in the Halls to begin with (boss recipes, those 1* shenanigans) will stay that way.

Alchemy path recipes taken out of Halls:

- Chaos
- Deadshot
- Divine
- Mad Bomber
- Salamander
- Shadowsun
- Silvermail
- Vog Cub
- Volcanic Plate
- Heater
- Omega Shell
- Swiftstrike
- Volcanic Plate
- Cold Iron Vanquisher
- Fearless Rigadoon
- Furious Flamberge
- Glacius
- Wild Hunting
- Callahan
- Hail Driver
- Magma Driver
- Storm Driver
- Volcanic Pepperbox
- Big Angry
- Irontech
- Scintillating
- Shivermist
- Shocking Salt

Alchemy path recipes retained in Halls:

- Azure Guardian
- Drake/Dragon Scale
- Dread Skelly
- Fallen
- Grey Feather
- Ironmight Plate
- Justifier
- Nameless
- Royal Jelly
- Scale (1*)
- Skolver
- Valkyrie
- Vitasuits
- Virulisk
- Volcanic Demo
- Aegis
- Dragon Scale
- Dread Skelly
- Grey Owlite
- Ironmight
- Royal Jelly
- Acheron
- Combuster
- Dread Venom
- Final Flourish
- Leviathan
- Sudaruska
- Winmillion
- Blitz
- Iron Slug
- Nova Driver
- Umbra Driver
- Valiance
- Agni
- Deadly Crystal
- Deadly Dark Matter
- Deadly Shard
- Deadly Splinter
- Nitronome
- Venom

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 14:19

Fight-Men

Perhaps you are right being

Oatmonster :

Perhaps you are right being against banned weapons in LD. But
Lets talk about UVs. If a player has lots of UVs and want to play LD, the game should remove the UVs for LD matches (making the weapon to its default at heat 10). UVs are only for rich people in the game. Trinkets should be alowed, they are kinda cheap though.

And you are right on being for balancing teams in LD, as so do I.

I didnt said DMs were too dificult.

So tell me why do I lag while having a computer that can run BF3 maxed out? And why do I lag while we have 4 bars of connection strenght? And why do I lag while having 50 to 80 of ping in other online games?

No, i wouldn't remove that, because that's part of your enemies attack... But smoke? Do enemies attack with that? Haven't seen one doing that... Sparkles on the ground? Thats just to make the game look pretty, but it lowers performance a lot.

Actually I have a Grey Owlite Shield, and it can't stand 4 hits from a Mecha Knight...

The thing is that if the game wants more players to join in, it has to turn foward to the players needs; not the opposite... Or there's only one result = loss of players!

I only want this game to get better and better...

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Thank you Luguiru!

I read your list carefully and I completely agree with what you sugested! :)
That would "stimulate" the need to visit the clockworks, as it is a desert nowadays...

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 14:22

Luguiru

I would also make recipes purchasable through the Halls more expensive:

2*: 2kCr
3*: 6kCr
4*: 15kCr
5*: 35kCr

It would sink some crowns. Lower energy prices a little.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 15:11

Echo-Twothree

How are newbs supposed to get those crowns? It could take them months if they can't play all day. Not everyone is rich. But yes, ce prices DO need to be less expensive. At least it's not 9k anymore, though......

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 08:24

Fight-Men

Response Echo-Two and some other things I forgot to mention.

I know, and agree with that too...
Newbies are having a very hard time geting into the game! The game is harder and harder to them...
But what Luguiru suggested was that those recipes were more expensive through HoH (and by what he/she suggested only a few should be available there), and, in order to save money a Clockworks Expedition is going to be done. And by doing those expeditions (many times refered as recipe runs) you will get cheaper recipes and earn more crowns.

But yeah, CE prices need to go down! As the missions and expeditions pay worser and worser as time goes by... How are the newbies supposed to craft equipment with those prices?
Keeping this way, newbies will keep quiting the game and only the "die-hard" players will continue to play. A proof of this, is that Haven is increasingly filled with beggars.

Now about other things:
- I recently went for a Tier1 expedition to help a newbie friend, and for my surprise even in T1 the Mechas perform 4 hit combos! And then I thought: "How is this suposed to be playable for a newbie with no experience in the game?!" Now, tell me how are the Mechas fine for them? For T3 it's ok, because in there players should not be reckless... But in T1? Thats just ridiculous!
In T3 leave the Mechas like that, as Oatmonster said: "Don't tank them", and I agree, you need to have extra care when they are arround... But their attacks could be nerfed, as they do to much damage in my opinion.
- Another thing is that Knockbacks seem to be a little wrecked, no? I mean, with a sword on your 3rd hit of the combo (in case of the Bradishes and Caliburs, 2nd hit in the Avenger and similar line) you'll get a knockback on your enemies... I see that that some enemies ARE hit in the last attack of the combo (which deals the knockback) and they just ignore that knock and attack right after.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 08:38

Little-Juances

It's not a matter of hits, but strenght.

A lumber can take you on 1hit.
You can also let a monster do a 1 million-combo, but with 0.0000000000000000000000000001 damage per hit.

Mecha knights swing 4 times, but are those swings strong? Also, after being hit, knights blink and become immune for a second so, will all 4 hits connect anyways? Cant the enemy be bumped too?

If it's indeed too hard, there's still no need to reduce it to 3 hits, but to make each weaker. I like it as it is because it feels different than us.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:01

Fight-Men

^Little

Yeah, but of course a lumber can take your shield down in 1 hit, but after attacking you he as a big "cooldown" before attacking again... This doesn't happen to Mechas, not in T1 neither in T3. They just spam attacks, with or without charge.
Of course they can be bumped, but what can you bump if you don't have the shield up because you were defending yourself from the 4 hit combo from a Mecha and suddenly he spams another attack? And when there are two Mechas attacking you? If one enought already gives trouble, imagine it with its friends...
And yes, in the 4 hit combo the 4th attack will connect.
I don't complain about the 4 hit combo... I complain about the overpower in that! At least make and undepowering on the hits or remove 1 hit from the combo.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Other things that are not directly meant for Little:

Another thing I saw on this post it was about LD being balanced... And it was said that LD balancing was not a priority right now.
I ask just one thing about priority on the game: Whats the priority then? Working on costumes and accessories for players to buy while the rest needs much more work?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:53

Softhead

Before HoH, we used basil to get newbie recipies.

New newbs don't get it.

Basil. HoH changed that.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 15:16

#10

Fight-Men

Not just the newbies, ALL the recipes.

In the time of Basil, The Recipe Troller, recipe runs were made every day in SK to get the recipe's players needed.
Today its like: "Oh, I need a recipe and got no mist (sad face)" and a minute later: "Oh nevermind, I have HoH, I'll visit it! (happy face)"
And that, my fellow Knights, removed all the challenges in getting the recipes.

Even last week I made my GOS and it took me 5 minutes to look for the recipes and craft it! Otherwise, if HoH didn't exist I would had to spend hours or days looking for the recipes... HoH removed the need for the challenge, now making equipment its like fast food: quick, easy, unexpensive and not very healthy.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 15:23

#11

Softhead

Except boss recipies and a someothers.

HoH has all recipies.

And screwed over the recipie market.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:01

#12

Addisond

Basil needs to stay in mission lobbies if the HoH is to stay, it's the only way for people to get recipes to get them to the next HoH now that the recipe market is dried up.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:42

#13

Fight-Men

HoH needs to disappear

If HoH is to stay, Basil NEEDS to leave the Mission Lobbys. That is screwing the game!
Just think about it: if Basil stays in the mission lobys there's no need to make Clockworks expeditions, you got the recipes you need in the lobbys, It's like a smaller HoH!

Even the mission rewards are getting too generous. As the rewards in mission you receive Azure Armor and Helmets, Aegis, Leviathan Blade, Nitronome and Valiance... Going this way, we may expect, in the future new knights will receive the Aegis, Azure Set, Leviathan Blade and Valiance instead of the regular Proto Equipment.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:03

#14

Addisond

Directly looking for your own recipes is too long of a process to be viable, it was better when people bought the recipes that would sell and players bought the recipes they needed of the AH or a friend passing through basil. Yes, it is a smaller HoH. That is accessible to players before they get the equips needed to get to that HoH. What the basil lobbies do is allow players to get the recipes they need to progress without going into the clockworks - since the recipe market dried up, you probably won't find the recipe you need on the AH. So you have to find it yourself - which sucks to do.

As for that thing you said about the cobalt line, I am not following your logic at all.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:06

#15

Luguiru

"Directly looking for your own recipes is too long of a process"

Were you here before the mission update?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 06:02

#16

Fight-Men

Before mission update...

Before the mission update, what did we all do for the recipes? We delved into the clockworks in order to get to Basil. Now, we don't need to do that anymore.
That process was long, and tiring, but you were challenging yourself to get the recipe! We all did that, and back then recipe market in the AH was alive and kicking... Now it's in a vegetal state.

Sure, you have the HoH but all the recipes you buy there are bound to you. And the unbind is expensive (5* will cost 4000ce), so how is this going to help the recipe market? With recipe runs a recipe that costed 25kCR in Basil was sold by 30 or 40kCR in AH. If the recipes were bought form HoH and then unbinded to be sold in AH, a recipe that costed 25kCR is now going to be sold by an awesome price of: 265 000kCR!

My logic about the cobalt line is that the 5* version of that set is being given like candy; being given this way, in the future new Knights won't have the Proto equipment that we are used to see on newbies, they will have full 5* Cobalt line.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 10:53

#17

Fight-Men

Vanity!

Not to mention the awesome increase in the number of vanity items that this game has after every update.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 15:52

#18

Dreathuxy

@Fight-Men

5* recipes dont go for 250k, I bought a GRAN FAUST recipe for 30k.

GRAN FAUST

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 16:04

#19

Addisond

Lug, I was here before the mission update. I started playing in nov 2011, and I always got recipes weeks or months after starting looking. The only feasible way was to have friends look for me, or to buy of the AH.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 16:23

#20

Fight-Men

@Dreathuxy and Addisond

Of course you can but that recipe for 30K, because that was bought through Basil and has no unbinding costs!

But imagine that same was available on HoH and its now being sold in the AH: you will have the 25kCR of the recipe cost plus the unbiding taxes (4000CE). Now imagine that price go up and up... And tell me how you're going to buy a recipe that was bought in the HoH and unbound for 30kCR.

I was refering only to the recipes that are available on HoH, Gran Faust isn't!!

--------------

That way you didn't need to delve into the Clockworks, you got help getting the recipes. I have nothing against that!

What I'm against is the massive recipe availability in HoH, thanks to that Clockworks looks less populated than the Sahara Desert.
In my opinion, the only recipes that should be available there were the Cobalt Line armors and swords (except Cold Iron Vanquisher), Blast Bomb serie and Blaster series and some other FEW recipes (that was pretty much what Luguiru said above).

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 16:33

#21

Echo-Twothree

Wow. I just found a blackhawk

Wow. I just found a blackhawk AND sentenza recipe from Basil in the SAME terminal. Talk about luck.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:23

#22

Fight-Men

Blink time.

Now I realised that there's no blink time after being it or reviving a teammate... That means after reviving/being revived or getting hit, you will always be hit again! Funny thing is that this doesn't happen when you use CE or Mist energy to revive, this way you have more blink time protection.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 13:31

#23

The-River-Blues

Can we also add improved

Can we also add improved scaling compared to the team size (and equipment rating) for missions to that list? Some of us who solo feel like its literally impossible to beat some missions without a team and feel like we are just a cash sink to eat up a ton of CE just to continue on our own.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 16:49

#24

Fight-Men

Even with 2

Even with two skilled people some DMs are just pure dificulty! Specially "Ghosts In The Machine", all that lag and freezes... My god.

Another thing is the Knight positioning... My guildmates are always complaing about that. They stop in a place, and a second later puff: if there's lava arround they get right into it.

Why does it looks that after every update the game gets more laggy and freezy? Dont get that...

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Some tweaks that could be made to make SK better.