Vanaduke
Vie, 04/26/2013 - 22:44
So I haven't played Spiral Knights in about 2-3 months. Not actively at least. I have a question now, why is Vanaduke listed as a fiend after the new UI change? When you fight Vanaduke he has a fiend icon next to his name. He use to have no family. Is this change their idea of giving us the tier 3 fiend boss we have been asking for?
He only has a slight weakness to pierce.
He has a slight resistance to elemental.
He is completely immune to shadow on phase 5.
What makes him a fiend?
Vie, 04/26/2013 - 23:32
#2
Well.. taking this from the wiki.
"Lord Vanaduke does not actually belong to any monster family, although his lore leads to the belief that he may be undead. He does not, however, share the same resistances or weaknesses as common undead, and even has more in common with that of a fiend in his body forms, as he is weak to piercing in these forms. In view of this and of his backstory (which never expressly says that he died), it is possible that Lord Vanaduke may be a Trojanesque fiend monster rather than a truly undead being."
and then after the new UI change they added this to the wiki.
"According to the new UI, Lord Vanaduke is considered a Fiend. This means that Vanaduke was never Undead to begin with. He still does not take extra damage from bonus damage vs. fiend abilities, so in actuality, he is still typeless. (Actually Lord Vanaduke does take extra damage from Undead UVs...however in his resistances he is VERY different from Undead) Lord Vanaduke is somewhat a cross between Fiends and Undead"
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 01:59
#3
Well seeing as he was warped by some otherworldly deity, you could say he's some sort of demi-demon, or possessed something or rather, which would fit the description of a Fiend.
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 05:04
#4
"He only has a slight weakness to pierce.
He has a slight resistance to elemental."
Facts-man to the rescue! The game doesn't actually have such a thing as "weakness", only different amounts of defence. It works no different than it does for knights.
Vanaduke has exactly 150 piercing defence and 200 normal/elemental defence. At depth 28, a regular fiend has about 81.5 piercing defence and 163 normal/elemental defence. (This is why poison is so effective against the big man, by the way.) So what does this mean? Well, let's look at the fan favourite Blitz Needle.
The raw damage for Blitz Needle at D28 is 354.
-On a fiend, it does 354 - 81.5 = 272 (it's rounded down)
-On an undead, it does 354 - 163 = 191.
-Difference in damage: 272 / 191 = 42%
-On Vanaduke, Blitz does 204.
-If Vanaduke was undead, Blitz would do 154.
-Difference in damage = 204 / 154 = 32%.
This is possibly a relic from the phase in the beta were enemies had differences in their defences and it wasn't the same for all enemies within a family.
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 05:42
#5
crap.
I want to be a zeddy's student.
anyway, vana. from the story is a fiend (normal man corrupted by evil, see silent legion). also, the attack patterns are very similar to a trojans.
but leading hordes of flaming undeads maybe makes him an undead. also, the UV thing.
so, yeah, I don't think he is in a specific family. I think that his ancient armor is really bad, and that is why he's weak to piercing.
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 10:20
#6
You know the easy way to figure out how much weakness Vanaduke has to pierce? Its exactly equal to a low dmg uv unless they have changed it recently which I am sure they haven't.
In short. Pierce weapon + low dmg UV is the damage he will take from it.
I am also very sure Vanaduke does not take damage increase from undead UVs like the wiki claims. Seeing as when I blitz him I use VH dmg and my Blitz has undead low on it. In short he ends up taking the exact same damage as his minions do who are neutral to pierce.
Or this is probably easier: http://www.twitch.tv/wodanclay/c/2211727
My blitz during this fight has Very High Damage increase and one of its UVs is low undead damage increase. Vanaduke will take the same damage as the slag at 1:22 takes.
There is no need to use huge charts when it can be summed up in 4 words.
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 10:23
#7
An opinion
I am also very sure Vanaduke does not take damage increase from undead UVs like the wiki claims. Seeing as when I blitz him I use VH dmg and my Blitz has undead low on it. In short he ends up taking the exact same damage as his minions do who are neutral to pierce.
I agree with this. As far as I can remember, he also doesn't take any more damage from Fiend UVs (coming from a player with a CiV Fiend: low and Divine Veil). The game's claim about Vana being a Fiend seems to be a bit misleading at best (but this post probably means naught. I'm assuming Vana's defenses are different to that of Slag Walkers and Trojans?).
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 11:19
#8
@Wodanct
That's a nice rule of thumb, but it's still wrong. Not all weapons gain exactly 13 damage from a low damage UV.
Sáb, 04/27/2013 - 17:10
#9
@_@
@Wodanct:
Dude that vid has nice overlapping music with the boss music. I MUST GET!
Dom, 04/28/2013 - 17:22
#10
Well, let us put it like this:
To know what a fiend is, we must find out what a fiend is. Let's take a look at the other families.
Beast Family: Animal Types
Slime Family: Slimes (duh)
Gremlin Family: Gremlins ('nother duh)
Undead Family: Undead dudes
Construct Family: ROBOTS! -TF2's Soldier
See, these are straightforward, and so is a fiend. Fiends are like demons (and stuff), but I would classify it as "corrupted and evil characters," and this fits it surprisingly well. I mean, Arkus is corrupted, bats and silkwings, are well, EVIL!!!! Devilites are devils. According to his backstory, Vanaduke is corrupted (and EVILLLLL!!!!!!!), so, yeah.
Dom, 04/28/2013 - 17:34
#11
A "bug":
They used a fiend as a base when making vanaduke, then modified his defenses.
He's no longer a true fiend but the flag that marks him as so is still there or something like that.
I think it was the time he was mutated and destroyed the 2 kingdoms like a million years ago before the Knights crashed. As seen here