Spiral Knights - I hate and despise the Compound level

I hate and despise the Compound level

26 replies [Last post]

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:06

Hatefuel

God, the little disgusting mobs are so annoying. The whole point of little, swam-type monsters is to make you feel powerful when you can crush them like ants, but when you get the undead ones (the [edited] Scarabs) which make you dodge them while they are in air. A [edited] bug makes you get out of his way when you should be able to destroy it instantly. Also, doing this level solo (especially if it's Freezing-themed) is just frustrating and not fun. You rush through 80% of the level, just to get the last room, in fact, all of this post is about the last room, I just made an account on the forums to complain about this awful, excruciating experience. I hate Scarabs, I hate Dust Rabbits or Dust Bunnies or whatever, they're annoying, far more annoying than the little jelly bloblets in the Jelly King's palace (at least they don't swarm you with crowd control).

TL;DR: Swarm mobs with crowd control are not fun and just a nuissance. Take these mobs, put them in a claustrophobic room, fun goes out on the window.

[Message from the Game Master: Per the Spiral Knights forum guidelines posted at the top of each forum section, If a swear word is filtered in-game in, do not use it on the forums.]

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:16

Skyguarder

Could you please watch your language? Especially the part about "Scarabs".

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:19

Demonicsothe

I guess...

Someone is fueled by hate.

tl;dr learning how to fight 2 hard

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 14:53

Sweet-Hope

1) get a bomb
2) gather the enemies
3) charge your bomb
4) place it some steps away from the enemies so the fuse would reach it end when the enemy enter in the bomb range
5) ????
6) Profit

Compounds are too easy, if you keep using the gear you use in FSC like all the farmers do. yes obviously you will die so easy there.
get a bomb and blast them away. you will see those levels a quick swift with a bomb in your inventory in those levels.

Get a dark briar barrage for dust bunnies, also works quite well with scarabs.
Get a nitronome for scarabs and slimes and all your troubles will end.

geez.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 16:12

Little-Juances

1. People say the game is too easy and they need a challange
2. People say they are bored of the same enemies and they want something new
3. OOO releases compounds
4. Kids cry and want to remove it

Sound about right.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 16:16

Shotjeer

You have like 1 hour left to edit your post. I suggest that you come back here and do it before you get banned.

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 18:18

Thimol

-----

4. Kids cry and want to remove it

not the same people as in #1

maybe for #2

Thu, 09/12/2013 - 18:24

Zeddy

Undead compounds: Electron Vortex or Voltaic Tempest or Ash of Agni or Nitronome
Slime compound: Electron Vortex Graviton Vortex or Voltaic Tempest or Ash of Agni or Nitronome
Beast compound: Graviton Vortex or Dark Briar Barrage or Splinter Bomb or Ash of Agni or Nitronome

You're welcome.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 08:42

Hexzyle

-1

People whined the same when Candlestick Keep was introduced. It's still here.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 08:58

Creeperlucario

I hate compounds as well

I really hate them because I don't have any suitable gear for those levels. I die more in compounds than curse firestorm citadel. I can complete curse firestorm citadel without losing my er ever and they are both on Elite difficulty. Also, Candlestick Keeps are fun especially went the black kat event is here!

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 12:08

#10

El-Odio

To sum the respones up:

If you want to play a compound without a bomb
you're gonna have a bad time

(Which I think is stupid fake difficulty, but the forums are a not the best place for this kind of rant.)

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 12:14

#11

Khamsin

Or just don't rely on your

Or just don't rely on your same ol' tactics that you use against zombies. I find compounds annoying, but that's more that you don't really get loot proportional to the challenge.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 12:41

#12

Little-Juances

It's justice. There are levels that become annoying as hell for (average) bombers. (Aurora isles/jigsaw valley full of turrets)

Pure gunners and swordsmen should suffer too.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 15:29

#13

Hearthstone

Um... guys, despite how obvious his "suggestion", he hadn't really posted one, and I'm just missing that logic in my head.

Fri, 09/13/2013 - 18:42

#14

Mickmane

Hah! Evidence!

First, I like compound, they're refreshingly different. I just try to evade them in tier 3 because I'm scared.

Now, I do bombs, mostly bombs, because I can't aim my way out of a wet paperbag. Compound kills me!
A lot of people here say bombs is the best way to do those levels, thus, my failure proves once and for all: I'm the worst player evah! Wheee.

Thank you. :)

(People tend not to believe me, just because I've got a pile of 5* stuff and some shiny outfits.)

Little-Juances, I don't get the bit about "There are levels that become annoying as hell for (average) bombers. (Aurora isles/jigsaw valley full of turrets)".
Those places are easy. Aurora is the perfect place for bombs. (Though for turrets, guns or Hammer is simply quicker.)

Oh, and: Scaraaaabs! Always want to take one of them home, they're so cute.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 02:05

#15

Batabii

The only problem I have with compounds right now is that THEYRE CLOGGING THE ARCADE.

I had to quit a run because there were literally THREE COMPOUNDS IN A ROW.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 11:07

#16

Alfiesr

@Little-Juances

@Little-Juances
That'd be fine if it were only punishing pure players. Pure bombers have a hard time in some levels, pure gunners have a hard time in some others, and pure swordsmen have a hard time in others. It worked fine like that, because no matter what combo of weapons you had, as long as you're not a purist, every level can be taken without an absurd, almost artificial difficulty that these levels impose. So why does this level have a problem? It doesn't punish you for being a pure gunner or a pure swordsman, it punishes you for not having a bomb. It punishes you for not having a particular type of weapon - and aside from Nitronome, it punishes you for not having multiple of that weapon type. No other level does that. Oh, I have a Voltech, and there's a shock level? I'll just use my sword. Or likewise with a voltedge and a non-shock gun. If you have a bomb that the enemies are resistant to, and you didn't bring a second bomb, you either can't bring it along (jacking up the difficulty once more), or you bring it, it's near useless, and the difficulty is higher than before. Unless you get the Nitronome line, you need 2 high level weapons just to deal with a single type of level. That's not fair, that's not balanced, that's not fun to anyone except a bomber who is naturally going to be prepared. Would you propose Vanaduke have a massive resistance to all non-bombs too? Same deal, really.

Mostly what this suggestion comes down to is the fact that the Compound enemies are poorly designed. They are fragile, and rightfully so, but not enough. Their attacks deal way too much damage considering their numbers and movement speed, and they're exactly the sort of enemies that should be one-hit by most weapons.

I'd have 2 suggestions to fix this without actually nerfing them:
1) Modify their AI so that they like to stick together. If you get stuck in a corner, it's now your own fault, not because half of them decided to go after another knight and then change their mind. You'll be targeting a single general area, but with more cumulative HP than most other enemies, where you'd be whittling away at their damage output as you whittle away at their general position. Gunners can keep a distance easier at the cost of very little damage to their mass, as more will spawn to replace those lost. Swordsman have the advantage of being able to temporarily knock most of them away at once with a single combo, until they start coming back, while bombers still maintain their advantage, having the easiest way to deal with them just as right now.
2) Spawn cap. If it doesn't exist, it should, and if it does it needs to be lowered. Right now I can endlessly run around the level and they just keep piling up to ridiculous numbers. I've never stuck around long enough to test this properly, but I don't need to to say there are already too many.

On a similar note, the spikes in some of the final rooms should be removed. If I want to run in a circle around the edge of the room, the game should let me. Forcing me to stop moving is not much different to the game randomly applying stun to the level, and it's especially annoying as a primary gunner because it means keeping my distance is no longer an option. I do have a sword secondary, but that doesn't mean it should do that.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 11:45

#17

Khamsin

There is only one type of swarmling per level. If you bring the wrong type of bomb, that's your own fault.

You don't NEED a bomb. I've gotten through compounds just fine without using a bomb. You should just give up the idea you have to kill every enemy... because you don't.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 12:03

#18

Alfiesr

You do more or less need a

You do more or less need a bomb. Try to sword them guarantees self damage and the possibility of being closed in on every side, and they block each other from being shield-bashed, and gunning doesn't kill them faster than they spawn. You don't need to kill all of them, no. Of course not, they respawn. But you do need to be able to limit their numbers or you're going to get overrun very quickly. The fact you can get through the level without a bomb doesn't mean it's not much easier with one, it doesn't mean you're not being punished, perhaps unintentionally, for using a bomb.

And yes, bringing the wrong type of bomb is stupid. I mentioned that.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 12:24

#19

Thunder-The-Bright

nah, you need explosions, not a bomb. brandish charge, pulsars, even troika line. just don't use the wrong attack type.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 13:34

#20

Zeddy

@Alfiesr

You mention Vanaduke, but Vanaduke punishes you for not having Blitz Needle. What if I only brought bombs and swords to Vanaduke? I'd have to deal with horribly broken fireballs or stick to an AoE weapon on a single target for a fight that'll last me at least ten minutes.

What if I only brought bombs and swords to that level in scarlet fortress with the kats attacking you across the chasm? Then I'd be stuck with firepots.

Every level in the game can be solved easily by just bringing guns, and compounds are the one exception to this.

Sat, 09/14/2013 - 23:32

#21

Hexzyle

@Zeddy

What if I only brought bombs and swords to that level in scarlet fortress with the kats attacking you across the chasm? Then I'd be stuck with firepots.

Um, due to the Kat's tendancy to cluster all together like idiots, Troika finishes that part faster than Pepperbox/FoV/DR finishes JK.

A better example is that horrid level where you have to carry the totems between the gun puppies. Good luck getting through that without a gun.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 05:48

#22

Zeddy

@Hexzyle

Actually, Troika makes fairly short work of that one too. Let's say you use any other sword except DA.

I think you might be able to reach both scenarios with Nitronome even? However, lower star bombers won't be so lucky.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 06:07

#23

Hexzyle

男女男男女男女

Troika makes fairly short work of that one too

I find using the Troika's charge against turrets leaves the user open for a lot of pain.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 06:38

#24

Doctorspacebar

It's a Concrete Jungle out there

Speaking of Troika, Heavy Swords used against the enemies in Compounds probably can make short work of the mobs, too.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 08:54

#25

Zeddy

I also like using hunting blade to cut my way through minis, and pretty much all of the sprites are great for the place.

Got a seraphinx? Angelic aura and cut through the mobs with your swords.

Got a drakon? Bait them into firestorm or flame barrier and cut through the mobs with your swords.

Got a maskeraith? Use basically any ability.

Sun, 09/15/2013 - 09:36

#26

Oskvion

Totally agree with you. The

Totally agree with you. The compounds are frustrating, but a few well placed bombs makes them a piece of cake.

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I hate and despise the Compound level