Mobile.
mer, 09/18/2013 - 20:26
So I found this thread laying around in my google drive and decided to finish it. Yays.
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IMPORTANT: Please actually read the entire thread through before commenting. Also don't comment "Apps will never work because herpderp java". We don't know that. This suggestion should only be considered if it is possible for anything SK-related to work on a mobile, android/iOS based device. Which would require Developer confirmation. This is not a java war thread.
I am also very aware that various threads have been made about this topic before. I have read most of them and determined that my ideas are sufficiently different and detailed to warrant their own thread, rather than necro a different thread and try to steer it my direction.
Thank you in advance for not insensitively and unconditionally flaming the Firestorm out of this thread.
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Spiral Knights is a game with many currencies, items, trades, and other systems not involving actual core gameplay (moving your character around and smashing things). Many of these systems are attractive to bored vanguards, and people spend lots of time sitting in haven and browsing the AH, talking to their guild, browsing trade chat, rolling UVs, ragecrafting, etc. None of these things require gameplay mechanics, to the best of my knowledge. These are all things that could be done without opening the game, and it wouldn't have a major effect on your experience. Plus it would be less server stress :)
What I'm suggesting is an app that would do all the aforementioned things, plus some others. It would be a convenient way to manage things like auctions and CE trades without opening up SK, or even on the go.
App features:
-Send and receive mail.
-Browse the Auction house, put items up for auction, and place bids.
-Use the energy depot.
-Use the supply depot.
-Browse vendor shops including: all strangers in the Bazaar, Brinks, Sullivan, and HoH vendors. Possibly also event vendors. (yes this includes Punch and Bechamel.)
-Use Punch and Vise's services.
-Talk in Zone, Trade, and Guild chat.
-View online friends and guildmates.
-Send/receive tells.
-Use the standard alchemy machine.
-Manage loadouts.
-If possible: complete "give the spiral order your stuff" prestige missions (Monstrous Research, Arms Appropriation, Supply Delivery, and Geological Survey)
-if possible: trade with other knights (not sure if this would work, since currently you have to be with the other knight to trade)
Suggested by Usevnsevnsixfivfor:
-Inventory/character management - this means equipping your character/sprite, activating slots, amplifiers, lockboxes, and whatever else.
-Crafting Sprite food.
development:
Presumably OOO would outsource this app, as they don't really have manpower to spare this kind of thing. Regardless it doesn't seem like it would be overly hard to me, just a matter of getting the info off of the servers and transferring it in a visual form for the app. But what do I know about programming? (Hint: virtually nothing)
So um... yeah. Discuss?
mer, 09/18/2013 - 22:59
#2
+1
Yes please.
mer, 09/18/2013 - 23:26
#3
I, too, like this idea.
It'd be like managing bits and pieces from a remote ready room.
jeu, 09/19/2013 - 03:38
#4
"Gizmoooo!"
I certainly wouldn't mind this, especially because of the AH feature :p It's a bit annoying to have to choose between doing something IRL or delaying it to make sure we win an auction. And sometimes IRL stuff can't be delayed :I
About the trade feature: maybe come up with something similar to Steam's trading system? If both knights are online, the one using the app would have a button to trade which upon pressing would ask for the other knight's name or allow us to choose someone from our friend/guild list.
jeu, 09/19/2013 - 13:14
#5
This COULD work. All the app needs is internet connection.
jeu, 09/19/2013 - 20:08
#6
@Aril
The thing about that is, that would make trading in the app easier than in-game, unless they added that system to the main game as well... which would be nice :)
jeu, 09/19/2013 - 20:17
#7
I would also like to feed sprites using this app.
ven, 09/20/2013 - 12:43
#8
my 2 cents
As much as I like the idea, I don't think OOO effort should be toward an app...
Plus what you ask is to be logged in, if you wanna chat in trade then you must be in Haven, what you ask is to play the game on phone...
Anything can be made in Java (*looks at Minecraft*) but you need the manpower and ressource to do so. If SK was the size of Minecraft in term of popularity and revenue, I would say: "BRING ME SK POCKET NUUAAHWW!!!"
But that is not the case and OOO has been working on stuff that people asked for years... We finally get a T3 boss!
yayzie ^ ^
-1, no need for this apps, player base wise and ressource wise
ven, 09/20/2013 - 15:21
#9
@Sham
"if you wanna chat in trade then you must be in Haven"
That goes for half the other things I listed too, but that's only for currently. I'm not sure if things like the trade chat and vendor shops should be accessible from this thing, but either way you aren't seeing the point. Chatting, AH, feeding pets(I'll put that in the OP too, gimme a sec), etc are things that you can do while logged in, but they don't require use of the core game. They could theoretically be accessed outside of the game client, and wouldn't create as much useless server load (people standing around in Haven and Ready Room doing nothing but checking AH, feeding, inventory management, etc). Plus, it's convenient.
P.S: Minecraft Pocket and Minecraft 360 both don't use java.
ven, 09/20/2013 - 15:57
#10
AH is like global across all havens. Trade channel is specific for each language. You don't see french trades if you're in Haven 1, nor german trades on Haven 75. You also want a zone chat without actually being there...
Then we'll need some tabs and filters and options....
I'm only worried that the app will be better than the game itself :v
We need to improve the chat.
ven, 09/20/2013 - 18:18
#11
That goes without saying :P
ven, 09/20/2013 - 19:42
#12
I think
Everything is well here. I mean this might take time but it will get OOO more money too.
ven, 09/20/2013 - 20:32
#13
Plus what you ask is to be logged in, if you wanna chat in trade then you must be in Haven, what you ask is to play the game on phone...
You don't need to be in Haven to access the Haven trade channel or zone channel. All you need to do is have your client (whatever device that client may be on) connected to the host, and put the client's address (in most cases this is the IP address) into a list of "connected users". This is likely what's already done serverside, whenever a message is sent to the server (as in, whenever someone says something in zone or trade) the server checks down the list of who else is on the list in "Haven X", then sends to everyone on that list the message that was sent.
This seems to be done for all messages in zone and trade, regardless of whether you are actually "in" that channel or not. The registry configuration reveals that being "in" a channel is stored on the client, so therefore that means that the server sends you all trade and zone chat, and your client simply hides channels from you that you aren't "in".
Anything can be made in Java (*looks at Minecraft*) but you need the manpower and ressource to do so. If SK was the size of Minecraft in term of popularity and revenue, I would say: "BRING ME SK POCKET NUUAAHWW!!!"
As I mentioned before, the application does not need to be made in java, in fact, it is possibly easier to make it with another language such as HTML. Just open up the page, log in, and then the page sends you all data that would normally be sent to your client. By retrieving server data in this manner, things like mail, auction house, and even trading or ingame chat could possibly be performed using the site. The code for this I speculate would barely be even 100 kilobytes, and although it would require some thorough testing to ensure that there are no security holes, writing the page itself would not be very difficult.
dim, 09/22/2013 - 08:05
#14
@Hex: Is there any chance that there's stuff on the list that's actually integrated into the game engine and the client that probably wouldn't be possible to get? Like maybe trading?
dim, 09/22/2013 - 09:51
#15
@Klipik-Forum
As very little is done on the client computer (with the exception of the Ignore list, keyboard configuration, joined channels and the options menu settings) everything is possible in a new application/program/client.
Example: If I were to intercept and unencrypt the messages that go from client to server, I could create a gamemaker game that logs into the server and functions exactly the same as the java client except I make it so that it's a top-down 2d game where all knights are represented by blue circles and all enemies are represented by red squares, and I could play the game like that. It certainly would be much nicer on the processor than java is, although it'd look pretty lame, visually.
Of course that'd take quite a bit of mucking around to reprogram a lot of the game in gamemaker, not to mention figure out what all the messages mean, if I were to ignore the fact that intercepting the client-server messages is against the ToS.
Anyway, to answer your question directly and simply, trading is possible: On steam you can trade items directly out of your inventory to another person without even logging into the game's client; this is done because steam connects to the Spiral Knight's player database and retrieves the information it needs.
dim, 11/10/2013 - 17:21
#16
Spectate LD and BN? Also let us open Iron Lockboxes/other boxes and let us change sprite perks and add skill points and buy from the depot and enable trinket and weapon and kromgo and heat slots/amps and let us craft pet food and view gate maps for the arcade and forge items and make guild trophies and trade with Brinks and Kromgo and other vendors and let us vendor our stuff to Basil and buy/sell energy (packs) and change equipment and ignore players and file complaints and bind armors/costumes and take screenies and deposit stuff in guild treasuries and storages and add accessories and rename guild doors and enable/disable full inspect and-
The list goes on. Way too many suggestion threads will appear later on. And too much work for OOO to do when the servers can hardly run themselves and load like Sonic 06.
dim, 11/10/2013 - 17:43
#17
@U7654
"-Use the energy depot.
-Use the supply depot.
-Browse vendor shops including: all strangers in the Bazaar, Brinks, Sullivan, and HoH vendors. Possibly also event vendors.
-Manage loadouts."
That covers some of the stuff you mentioned. As for the other stuff, spectating is a no-go because you have to have the actual game engine running to do that. Probably couldn't do Guild Doors either since you have to physically walk around the GH to rename them in the normal game. I did forget to add general inventory/character management - which would cover stuff like sprite perks, slots, etc. This thread was also originally written before the BS release so stuff like sprite food crafting also isn't in there. Well, wasn't - it is now :)
This wasn't meant as a comprehensive list, and I've probably still left some stuff out. I just meant, very very broadly and basically, essentially any window you can open = something you can do in the app. Except of course thing you have to be in specific places (other than haven) to do, like Basil shops or Apocrea crafting.
And, as a mentioned before, theoretically this would reduce server stress since more people would be using this app instead of loading up the actual game - which is less work on the servers, right? No entities to load.
dim, 11/10/2013 - 20:02
#18
When you're this swag this world just bows at your knees
@U7654
and ignore players
Unfortunately, if you ignored a player, it would not be carried across to the client on your computer. That stuff is stored locally.
@Klipik
As for the other stuff, spectating is a no-go because you have to have the actual game engine running to do that
Read my post 15.
Probably couldn't do Guild Doors either since you have to physically walk around the GH to rename them in the normal game
sendMessage(RENAME_GUILD_DOOR,Left_Wing_1,"Party Room")
Done. How do you think stuff works when you do it on the client? Ever tried to inspect someone just as they change instances? You get a "There is no player named [playername]". That's because you're pretty much doing sendMessage(INSPECT_PLAYER,"Njthug") and then the server sends you the player's info if the two instances match.
which is less work on the servers, right? No entities to load.
Pretty much. No need to constantly transmit information between players about their location, equipment, name and chat? No effort whatsoever on the server's part.
mar, 08/19/2014 - 08:47
#19
Bump.
I think that if the player logs in to the app with their account/knight, they should receive a free plain metal helm and armor that looks like a reskin of the cobalt series, but glossy. Also, the plain metal helm and armor are costumes, so they do absolutely nothing.
mar, 08/19/2014 - 11:03
#20
(~O ,O)~ #Sonosuks
I think you mean recolor, not reskin, if it's the same as the Cobalt set. Also, I'm not sure if it's entirely plausible to make a plain metal recolor of something that's the color of borderline steel. So maybe just a shiny Cobalt costume set.
mar, 08/19/2014 - 21:58
#21
Cell-phone-on-belt accessory?
mer, 08/20/2014 - 01:25
#22
The papaya has an idea
@Kilpik-Forum
Or maybe a phone helmet? :O We have digital eyes after all...
mer, 08/20/2014 - 21:30
#23
+1
I think many players will prefer such app for sure. Devs have reason to make this, they just need some time.
mer, 08/20/2014 - 22:09
#24
Meh somewhere in between
I would like to use it to manage auctions when I'm not around which would nice but one problem is that because others will have it they might manage their auctions to since now that if they had to go somewhere they can keep bidding on something I want. Just a lot more bidding wars will occur with this app
Apps will never work because herpderp java
Just going to state that you don't even need to mention this: although the client works using java, network messages are constructed of bytes and aren't biased towards where they're going or what programming language they were made with. A server database is just a assortment of memory. Any programming language that can read memory (which goes without saying, is all of them) can operate off of this.
Anyone who says otherwise needs to lrn2network ;) Packets, buffers, sockets, clients, hosts, strings, bytes, longs, and all that.