Spiral Knights - Charge spamming dual Fausts - let's all get better at this

Charge spamming dual Fausts - let's all get better at this

20 replies [Last post]

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:28

Krakob

I got my hands on a pair of CTR Med Fausts only the other day. My intentions were naturally to charge spam them. Here's what I've learned so far, with only one RJP run as experience:
Gear choice:

Having two Fausts is a requirement as using only one will hurt if it's marked by curse.
Three Fausts could be used to avoid curse but it's easier to do it with resistance.
+5 resistance is required to only have one weapon cursed. For reference, a piece of Divine equipment gives +4 resistance. Chaos gives -2. BKC gives -4. Actually, now that I think of it, I haven't actually verified if you need 5 but 5 is enough nonetheless. 5 resistance is what's needed vs curse Zombies to keep only one slot marked so it's probable that it's the same for Fausts.
Personally, I use a Divine Mantle with a Curse High UV (4+3=7) combined with a Chaos Cowl (-2) to achieve exactly 5 (7-2) units of Curse resistance. Note that one could simply replace the Curse UV with a 5* Purity Sprite perk.
Having one piece of Heavenly Iron is arguably optimal as it gives 4 curse resistance like Divine while also providing a neat little Low Damage Bonus for swords.
Using Chaos makes it harder to achieve desired resistance but the CTR is very desirable and the DI is rather useful as well.
If a Divine item is in question, choosing between Mantle and Veil doesn't make a big difference as Fiends shouldn't be fought with Shadow damage and they're often paired with Undead, which are immune to Curse altogether.
Getting CTR UVs on the Fausts is definitely helpful.
Since it's a matter of using two Fausts, it's desirable although not required to be able to switch swing them.
To allow switch swinging, they may not share the same UVs. Both having no UVs is a no go, too.

Execution:

Upon releasing a charge, always shield cancel to avoid hitting with a cursed weapon.
If cursed, switch weapons to check which one is cursed in the weapon wheel.
While cursed, either keep your eyes on the status timer or check the weapon wheel every time after releasing a charge to avoid damaging yourself.
Don't copy that floppy
Using a Faust charge spam setup doesn't mean the charge is your only available method of attacking. Don't be afraid to use regular Faust attacks when you see fit.

Questions:

Is it possible to be immune to Faust curse entirely? If so, how much resistance is required?

Feel free to share experiences and advice here.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:05

Bamzalot

Interesting idea.

I'll have to try getting two more Fausts if I want to try this out. Then of course I will need to get some CTR on them. The only use I've ever really found for Sealed Swords is charge attacking so I will give this a shot once I get a chance.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:27

Tiasthyr

Whoa.

Does that mean that when you are already cursed, you can't be cursed again? Genius.

Heavenly Iron Armor is probably your best bet in terms of curse-resistant gear. (Which all has Shadow defense and bonuses to Fiends and Undead, blah.)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:52

Dibsville

"Does that mean that when you are already cursed, you can't be cursed again? Genius."

You can be re-cursed, but with the Curse resistance Krakob suggests only 1 weapon would be cursed, so you could simply swap to the other Faust every time the one you're using is cursed.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:48

Krakob

@Tiasthyr

Actually, you shouldn't use a Faust charge setup vs Undead. Undead are immune to curse and both families are resistant to Shadow damage. Still, that's a really good idea because it completely beats Divine by providing the same amount of curse resistance in addition to the damage bonus. The shock weakness could be a problem but that's only situationally. While my setup will be more effective with Divine, that's not necessarily the case for others so I'll add a note about Heavenly Iron in the OP.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:31

Parasthesia

AFAIK you can't be immune to

AFAIK you can't be immune to Faust Curse, since it is Strong. Same reasoning from all we know about Fang of Vog and self-fire.

Curse might work differently, so feel free to test but theoretically you can't be immune to it.

Come to think of it, is the Faust-curse from the swings moderate curse? Or strong? I know what the tooltip says, but look at Fang of Vog. Moderate fire on swings, Strong Fire on charge.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:56

Krakob

wow

I've just done some tests. My maximum possible curse resistance is 18 and as it looks now, I can inflict self curse with Gran Faust but not with Faust. I'll report back once/if I find the exact number required for this immunity.

Edit: the required resistance for achieving 4* Faust self curse immunity appears to be 10. Now wat do with double CTR med Fausts. Let me hear some gear suggestions to get 10 curse resistance. Personally, I'd go with my Divine Mantle (Curse High) and a Sprite Perk, leaving my helmet slot and trinkets open to other things. Without UVs, it's kind of hard to get there without using two trinkets and a sprite perk though, unless you're using two curse resistant items which should give 8 resistance. At that point, all you need is a trinket, perk, or medium UV to get to 10.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 16:02

Fehzor

So what happens when a third of the enemies magically don't take damage from curse?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 08:08

Krakob

I am unaware, please do explain. I thought only Undead and some special mobs were curse immune.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 09:04

Gravelord-Caste

/reply Krakob

As a Faust Wielder, I found this thread to be quite helpful. I've also copied this from the Wiki:

The following monsters are immune to curse:
Lord Vanaduke
Darkfire Vanaduke
Ice Queen
All Battlepods
All Undead excluding Howlitzers
All Fiends excluding Greavers and Silkwings
Devilites and Lumbers may receive Curse, but they will not take any damage from it.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 10:19

#10

Krakob

Ah, so that is the case. Using Faust vs Undead/Fiend enemies, charge spam or no charge spam is pretty silly no matter if they receive curse or not.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 11:36

#11

Momofuku

This is an interesting

This is an interesting thread.

Are you sure +9 is not enough for immunity?

Your native Curse resistant options are Divine, Deadshot, Almirian, Heavenly Iron, and Valkyrie. If you only had access to Low/Med Curse UVs, Heavenly Iron is probably the way to go for the sword damage bonus.

A good option that comes to mind with your Divine Mantle + Curse High is Skolver. I recommend Skolver over Snarbolax because the Pierce defense will come in handy against Jellies / RJP, but it is up to you to decide whether you think the extra poison resistance is worth it (or if you simply have better UVs on one over the other). It is encouraged that your other armor have Normal defense, since many monsters in PVE deal partial normal damage (about 1/3-1/4 of an attack will have a normal component, which Divine set is missing)

- Divine Mantle (Curse High) +7 Curse
- Skolver Cap (optional Curse Med/High, depending if +9 or +10 needed)
- Barbarous Thorn Shield

- Penta Heart Trinket
- Sword CTR Med Trinket
- Curse High Perk (+3 Curse)

- Faust CTR Med
- Barbarous Thorn Blade / Final Flourish
- Argent Peacemaker / Polaris
- (others to consider: Vortex, Shivermist, to contain enemies while you prep Faust charges)

This would give you a meaty +4 sword damage, +6 CTR for you Fausts, the option of BTB charges at +4 CTR, and a fast gun for finishing off weakened foes without needing to expend a full charge against them. The fast gun/swords are there to complement the slow Faust attacks, especially when lacking Swiftstrike Buckler.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:04

#12

Krakob

Yup. I checked it again to be sure and it most certainly is +10.

Your gear suggestion is good although I'd personally rather use Swiftstrike Buckler due to Faust's extremely low attack speed. To a dedicated swordsman, that's like using say, Big Angry Bomb without Charge Time Reduction.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:59

#13

Momofuku

That's fair (since you really

That's fair (since you really can't go wrong with either shield in PVE) but the reasons I leaned towards BTS:

You would be primarily using Faust for charge attacks over Faust swings; the ASI benefit is "wasted" the less regular swings you do, and you start to drift towards just regular attacks being preferable to charge spamming
%-wise damage addition to a strong charge attack leads to larger nominal damage; roughly 40-60 damage difference in the charge attack, ~20 on projectile per hit
Using Sealed Sword line charge attacks generally leads to being vulnerable to hits after releasing the charge, generally using the Shield defense more, which having a 5* shield HP may prove beneficial over a 3* one
It also has a better Shield Bump, which is nice if you need the time to charge Faust, which still takes a while even with CTR Max (Jellies and Gremlin are among the faster monsters you face, with their dashes and bump attacks)

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:09

#14

Fehzor

You sure that devilites aren't hurt by curse?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:05

#15

Krakob

Using Sealed Sword line charge attacks generally leads to being vulnerable to hits after releasing the charge, generally using the Shield defense more, which having a 5* shield HP may prove beneficial over a 3* one
Bingo! With extra ASI, you'll finish the animation faster. I guess it's a matter of preference in the end.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 04:55

#16

Gravelord-Caste

/reply Fehzor

That's what the Wiki said. As I recall, Devilites can't be hurt by it, but then again, I haven't been able to hit them with a curse Vial recently.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 12:41

#17

Dibsville

"You sure that devilites aren't hurt by curse?"

Devilites can be Cursed.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:02

#18

Gravelord-Caste

/reply Dibsville

For the sake of clarification, they can receive it, but they don't take any damage whatsoever from dodging or attacking (apparently). Same with Lumbers (that I do remember).

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:07

#19

Skepticraven

Just tested

Devilites CAN get hurt by curse.

Tested D24, The Gauntlet with Gran Faust.
Confirmed for Pit Bosses (during the "yell at yesman/devilite action").
Confirmed for Overtimer (did not during "throw" but did during "melee" attack)

It seems to deal the damage much less frequently, but still does damage.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:56

#20

Brother-Zeke

Interesting

That Heavenly Iron Armor I crafted ~2 weeks ago might come in handy if I actually decide to do this (already had helm). I mean, I do craft random stuff nowadays so I might just do this if I am not lazy enough to actually get the two Sealed Swords...
Also curse UV's have found a new niche.

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Charge spamming dual Fausts - let's all get better at this