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'Cull Transients' Advanced Video Option Feedback

29 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:21
Nick's picture
Nick
Developer

The 'Cull Transients' advanced video option is now available in the advanced options menu. This is an experimental option that could further boost performance in complex levels, such as the Ironclaw Munitions Factory. However, it may cause unwanted side effects such as particle effects not loading or sound not playing.

We are interested in your feedback should you experiment with this option. Please describe any bugs you experience when using this option. The more descriptive the better! By properly identifying what becomes bugged when using this option, we can work toward fixing it and making it a stable feature.

*Please note, selecting this option is not required to experience the automatic performance boost that all players will receive as described in the patch notes:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/50966
This option is simply an additional boost that we are working on and seeking feedback.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:47
#1
Heron's picture
Heron
I hope that will fix some of

I hope that will fix some of those snow maps in LD.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:56
#2
Ghret's picture
Ghret
What is it exactly?

Maybe if you told us what is was we could help out more. And maybe know whether it doing something it is not supposed to do.
Just a suggestion. Albeit a really useful one.
I know many times when I decided not to report something because I thought it was a "feature" of the software. And the one time I did report something I thought was out of the ordinary, it turned out it was supposed to do that!
So, long story short, what does the Cull Transients do?

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:58
#3
Dukeplatypus's picture
Dukeplatypus
It culls the transients, I

It culls the transients, I suppose. Sounds pretty simple.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:16
#4
Narfle's picture
Narfle
hmm

A quick googling returns results related to measuring heat, nuclear energy, and controlling animal populations. Based on the name, however, I'm assuming that it shoos away some of the hobos that can nest in your video settings.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:23
#5
Trying's picture
Trying

I guess we can all just think of it as the opposite of render effects.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:57
#6
Nick's picture
Nick
Developer
It's a very technical

It's a very technical feature, but it could be broadly summarized as it preventing certain effects from firing off screen. Thus, you will not notice it working as you cannot see what it is doing.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 12:15
#7
Paweu's picture
Paweu
Wow, this is amazing. You

Wow, this is amazing. You really fixed IMF - i'm getting 35-40 fps when I used to get 15-20 (my system is a single core [AMD LE-1600] and i've got 2GB of DDR2 RAM and RADEON HD4650 low profile as my GPU). Really, I'm amazed. Congratulations on this really well done performance upgrade!
Holy crap, FSC runs sweet too. (40 FPS on high)

Really thanks Nick!

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 12:23
#8
Sypsy's picture
Sypsy
Hmmm

@ Nick

So would it be optimal to have this on normally or by default?

@ Pawea

Is this with the cull transients on, or just the normal "blast powder" optimization?

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 12:29
#9
Nick's picture
Nick
Developer
Try running the game now

Try running the game now without Cull Transients selected first. You'll see an improvement. Cull Transients is for those that want to further tinker.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 15:09
#10
Heron's picture
Heron
Great patch, I'm getting more

Great patch, I'm getting more frames now in FSC.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 15:24
#11
Brokwine's picture
Brokwine
Works great with me, the game

Works great with me, the game looks more fluid now :)

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 16:49
#12
Xylka-Mkii's picture
Xylka-Mkii
120 FPS in UFSC

120 FPS in UFSC GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

er.... yeah sorry bout that ^, got a tad bored on my end after a long time at piano lessons :3

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 19:21
#13
Greenlightning's picture
Greenlightning
Erm

I used to have an almost perfect connection but after this update I can't even get to haven before everything freezes...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 01:23
#14
Toastnaut's picture
Toastnaut
So far...

I've been playing a fair bit today, with the new setting enabled.

Hopefully these are helpful, here is a list of things I've noticed that I can't say as I've seen happen before, that I suspect have to do with it:

Occasionally loot from enemies that have died offscreen (killed by teammates or from ongoing damage) doesn't show up until well after the place where they've died has been on screen for a bit. This has caused loot to randomly appear a few times with no obvious source, rather than being on the ground as the spot it is located in comes into view.
Most obviously this seems to happen when dealing with Lumbers or Retrodes, it is basically acting like the game is invisibly going through the death animation after their death location has come into view since I didn't see them die before the loot shows up, even though they died a short while before. In some cases, it has played the death sound effect for them, so I've known what dropped the loot and gone to collect it only to see none there, then it pops into place when I'm quite close.

Had a lumber die without animating at all earlier. I've never seen a lumber simply vanish, and it hit me AFTER it was dead.
One moment I was fighting it up close, the next instant during my attack it was gone with a little poof of smoke, and a bunch of heat and crowns appeared and zipped over to me, then right as I got the last of the loot, I took a bunch of damage and was stunned, but not knocked back. It wasn't a lag spike so far as I can tell; it all happened without any real delay and everything was working and moving fine otherwise, I also got normal damage numbers until the instant it vanished and none once it was gone, unlike a lag spike where things normally just stop responding until it resolves itself. If it matters, it didn't die from a status effect and wasn't stunned (though the way I was instantly hit without it animating an attack was similar to the common stun bug.)
If I was to guess, I assume I killed it precisely AS it was starting its attack animation, so it died and attacked both with no animation, so I got hit after it wasn't there.

In a danger room, but so far nowhere else, every time I hit gun puppes with glacius charge bursts I was getting no damage numbers. No matter what the camera angle was from their location, there were no numbers, so it didn't seem to be the common issue where numbers appear to be very high above enemies from certain camera angles, or that they were out of view.
Everything else was working fine, so far as I could tell, but only that attack on gun puppies was failing to show damage values when they were hit.

Hopefully some of this makes sense in reference to the new changes and can help somehow. :-S
Otherwise, the game runs SIGNIFICANTLY smoother and faster. I generally found it pretty good before aside from the odd pause when things spawned in (which is gone) or framerate drop in freeze levels in particular (which also seems to be much better.)

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 09:35
#15
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
To give a little more

To give a little more information than what Nick provided...

To cull is to remove things based on a specific criteria. In this case, it'll be field of view, or what you can see on the screen, and maybe some other criteria that OOO sets. For example, if you draw a 3D cube, normally you would tell DirectX/OpenGL they need to render 6 surfaces, on the screen you'll only ever see 3 of those surfaces at a time. You could cull away those extra surfaces based on the criteria that they are obscured from view behind other surfaces. To the end user the output looks the same, but takes less time to render since we are only rendering 1/2 of the cube surfaces. Spending less time on rendering a single scene would increase frames per second.

As nick said, this applies to special affects off screen, so I take it they are using transients to mean special affects as in moving particles like sparks or smoke from monster deaths. Since Toastnut mentioned the drops they possibly cut the drops animation when offscreen hence why they don't pop up until the game thinks they are on screen. Stuff like that.

It is possible that OOO is culling even further to include objects hidden behind other objects on the screen. But since that is more difficult to manage and nick hasn't mentioned the backsides of monsters, they probably aren't.

I haven't tried the setting yet, but I probably will on my laptop which has a hard time in FSC and IMF.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 10:01
#16
Katmint's picture
Katmint
‫‬‭‮‫‬‭‮

I've noticed an issue with this feature in Lockdown.

Sometimes when you're running around with Striker dash you'll get hit by invisible expanded Polaris bullets, which is quite annoying. I'm guessing the speed of the Striker dash doesn't give enough time for the previously off-screen Polaris bullets to be rendered.

Aside from that issue I've been loving this new option, I still got a noticeable performance boost without it but with it turned on my FPS has reached levels that were pre-patch only obtainable in the guild hall. <3

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:35
#17
Kitty-Softpaws's picture
Kitty-Softpaws
This is my feedback for the

This is my feedback for the 'Cull Transients' Advanced Video Option patch. I'm just... Like..

You know I've been waiting for this patch since June for FSC on labtop users.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 01:40
#18
Toastnaut's picture
Toastnaut
Same as Katmint

I've been noticing that expanded pulsar shots that drift on screen from any side (especially from the bottom, because of the shorter FOV, though) don't appear even after they've exploded sometimes.

More than once I've had enemies erratically knocked about with no visual, or audio cues as to why - only to realize later that a teammate was firing his pulsar over my shoulder. Rarely, the explosion shows up after they reach maximum distance or impact something, but the shots are invisible until they explode.

So far, this is the only oddity that's really been inconvenient of everything I've noticed from the new option.

After playing for a bit with the option turned off, having it on makes a very significant difference in performance for me, so even with a few odd things going on, I think it's still worth it for me, and I'll keep it on for now.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 07:41
#19
Cheesekiller's picture
Cheesekiller
first off I just want to say

first off I just want to say that Ubuntu 11.10 is my OS so maybe that's why I haven't seen the wierd results like everyone else. I play on 3 different computers. on my desktop I haven't noticed any change probably because that computer has a nvidia gt430 so its overspeced anyway. on my touch screen dell it used to lagg a bit (it has some Ati mobile card) but after the update and with cull transients on it runs as smoothly as my main desktop (I don't know if it hold true for windows users but sk is totally playable on a touch screen infact all the buttons are just big enough). I also play on an Acer netbook. naturally it has Intel crapboard video but since the update its playability went from "I can buy stuff in haven" to "I can actually kill a lumber". which is good for that old netbook I feel.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 22:21
#20
Acck's picture
Acck
Vapor bombs

While using the Cull, the vapor circle for shivermist, venom, ash, and voltaic disappears when you move to where it is off screen and then return to that area.
They still have the desired effect on monsters, but the visual does not return.

All in all, quite an improvement in performance.

*Edit: This happens when dropping a bomb and moving to where the bomb is off the screen before it explodes. Still makes the noise and affects monsters, but no vapor circle.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:51
#21
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
@Xylka hehe, you could have

@Xylka

hehe, you could have copied some of the exclamation points then hit the paste button a ton of times to save you more time which can be spent on the piano :3

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:10
#22
Flists's picture
Flists
When you move quickly toward

When you move quickly toward traps, sometimes they won't do the flashy thing that warns you the trap is about to activate.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 02:00
#23
Loziento's picture
Loziento
It works great! I now can run

It works great! I now can run D25 of FSC very smoothly.
And I also noticed the problem Flists said. When in FSC in spike areas, I see some of the spikes flash when they about to go up and some don't. Don't know if it's just my graphical settings or what.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 04:11
#24
Ghret's picture
Ghret
If I am correct

Then the Cull Transients option basically means that every effect that occurs off-screen (for the player) is disregarded/ignored a.k.a. not rendered. It's still there, the game just doesn't make it appear on-screen. Of course therein the problem lays. If the aforementioned effect is brought back into the screen then the game must attempt to either a) work to bring it back, or b) just forget about the effect until later.

I believe that this description is the best way to think of the option, yes?

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 05:39
#25
Bopp's picture
Bopp
no difference

I have a decent computer, but I typically play SK with low graphics quality and no antialiasing, just to ensure that I maintain as high a framerate as possible. I have not noticed any performance difference with the Cull Transients option activated, in FSC, IMF, or anywhere else. Maybe I need to adopt more stressful graphics options, for it to matter.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 06:12
#26
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality
3

The "Cull Transients" feature was a phenomenal idea, and I commend OOO for making this optimization feature available. I run the game on a laptop with an integrated Intel video chip, making SK hardly able to run. I've always had <15fps at best, and I've always had the graphics on "Low" and "Compatibility Mode", which hardly helped at all. After the performance boost update, I hardly noticed any difference. With this feature, however, I notice my framerate go up significantly. Of course, due to the nature of my video card, I still get a few hiccups here and there, but it overall feels smoother. To even further praise this, the Lockdown map "Frostbite" is finally playable without an un-Godly amount of lag or frame drops. I have yet to dive into Ironclaw Munitions Factory, but I wouldn't expect it to play worse than before. Additionally, I feel that losing the ability to see off-screen effects (Haze Bombs, Pulsar shots, etc.) for a much smoother framerate is a fair trade off, especially on a cruddy computer like my own.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 06:31
#27
Theozai's picture
Theozai
it's been a while since I

it's been a while since I last logged on. when I did the other day and installed this new patch, the game, for whatever reason, runs choppier and has more lag then I have ever experienced in SK. not really sure how that is, or why, I even tried checking my computer performance and all my other games run just fine. even portal 2 runs smooth in comparison to this game now. anyway, not sure if the game is lagging because of populated servers or what, but certain levels and stages have become super hazardous because of this. FYI, I'm on an Acer Laptop, so I know I might be running smoother on a desktop computer, but Spiral Knights always ran super smooth on my lappy in the past, so I don't know what to make of this.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 09:06
#28
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath
In LD...

The only problem I have had with it is that I've had a few enemy Voltaic Tempests suddenly turn invisible.

Other than that, I went down to UFSC and DID NOT LAG HORRIBLY INTO A PIT FIRE!!!!!!

Yayz :3

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 09:35
#29
Noomad's picture
Noomad
cull transients is a no-go for me

Too many things disappear for me with it on. I usually bomb in Lockdown, and it can be difficult to see exactly where the range of my last bomb was when I walk off screen. That and spike traps sometimes not showing that spikes are coming in soon makes me too nervous to play with it on.

Perhaps some tweaking would help.

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