Spiral Knights - Quote from a person on steam.

Quote from a person on steam.

26 replies [Last post]

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 07:26

Megapon

"Three Rings should rename the game to "Spiral Knight". With all the nerfs, the individual-gain-oriented "fixes", and more nerfs, the game is not encouraging players to party up, but actually discouraging them. It's not about "knights" any more. Just one.
I gain the same loot whether in party or solo and that's why I should party up? Ridiculous. That's actually the opposite reason to get in a party with this brand new loot system. The only challenge remaining in this game is waiting for the others to catch up - if someone's willing enough to get in a party." -Anonymous

Any thoughts? Agree or Disagree?

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 07:35

Bopp

strongly disagree

Most knights I know need minerals more than anything else. Playing in a party can quadruple your mineral production (assuming that you trade food with other knights, to exploit all of your red, yellow, and purple minerals). Except for the loss of health reviving, this update has only increased our incentive to play in parties.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 07:40

Rezzler

As bopp said, playing in

As bopp said, playing in parties gives mor minerals. Aside from that, partying vs soloing is no difernt. So unless So unless ur some antisocial loner, parties r th wayv to go

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:04

Zeddy

Why would you ever solo this game? There are hundreds of much superiour single-player action games out there, free of lag issues.

I play Spiral Knights specifically for the co-op, and the new system doesn't get in the way of this.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:04

Uryell

Some members of my guild took a look at the mineral loot system, and they discovered that minerals were no longer "party bound". It seems one knight only gain the mineral he looted on his own. He deosn't benefit of the minerals the other players pick up.
For my part I didn't test it. But this is possible.
If you have time, please check it out.

Anyway, I totally agree with Megapon. If people are not playing with muble or Skype, you have absolutely no interaction with your teamates. You have to loot your own drops. You can't anynore drop your vials pills and caps, you can't even give vitapods to the one who needs more than you. You can't give a caps to the player who need one. You can't rev your friends....
Spiral Knights changed a lot. and a lot more than what i wanted.
It is a new entire game. The old spiral knight is dead, and i want to play to the old one. I don't care sharing my minerals with my teamates, I want to share my party !

Fire Crystal, orbs, energy, sprite ... I have no problems with such things. I find it quite good after a while. But i can't stand the loot and drop system. This new system is ridiculeous !!

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:09

Zeddy

@Uryell

No that's wrong. Everyone in the party get everyone's minerals. I have confirmed this several times.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:17

Uryell

Another situation which became worse with the new update :
When you are bad and you are playing with a very skilled player, he won't help you anymore because he can't. He can't rev you, he can't share his life, he can't give you pills .... You are alone with your bad skills ...
I often play with a very nice friend, who now wants to stop SK because he doesn't manage to stay alive. I want to help him, but I can't.
And this is SAD !

Some time ago, I thought Spiral Knight would improve the co-op game and create some new rooms with small enigmas which would only be solved with the help of the whole party. ( the enigma would fit to the numbers of players)
I thought they will do such things. But it is totally the opposite.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:10

Uryell

@Zeddy

Ok, thank you. I will tell my friends ^^

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:20

Theopholis

At first, I thought that this

At first, I thought that this update would result in a reduced co-op attitude. And to some extent it does.

But, the instanced loot seems to actually be helping. I find that less people are rushing through levels counting on others to pick things up, because they have to actually get the loot themselves. Also, in the Firestorm Citadel, the second depth is no longer a solo-fest. It's actually faster to work together than to have everyone running around at the end looking for loot.

More minerals is a huge bonus too, as my sprite quite underfed right now.

Revives should still be possible though, even if you're only able to revive someone by giving them your emergency revive.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 08:34

Paweu

Old system was too friendly

Old system was too friendly for leeches, new system fixes that really well, like people keep saying - there is little to no reason to not party. You aren't actually losing out on anything if you party and the "everyone has to pick up their own stuff" loot system is a good way to keep people together and not have someone run off into some far away part of map to just die so you have to run to them and waste half of your health to revive them. It was a terrible system.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 11:00

#10

Niichi

To be honest, before the update I would sometimes solo for the loot because sometimes I'm a greedy knight who wants everything to himself. So yes, with this change to the loot system I no longer have that reason and I haven't soloed by choice since. So what if I have to pick up my own stuff? That was a perk of the old system but it wasn't the reason I played in a party.

Playing in a party gives me firepower from allies, defensive actions, status layering, divide and conquer with mobs (one lures enemies, another kills healers, for example) and multiple sprite support. The social element is pretty cool too. The only thing I do miss are health revives. I've sometimes picked up friends off the floor using sparks of life because they're friends and I don't mind using a few of these items on them, but now I'm extremely unlikely to pick up random knights off the floor.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 11:37

#11

Oboron

Disagree

Playing the game on your own, first of all, gets boring over time. The only time when I actually enjoyed soloing was on April fools day.
Also, Zeddy is right, if I wanted to play a solo all the time, I definately wouldn't play this game.

Yeah there are some missions that I'd rather do alone because doing it alone makes it easier for me . For example RT. However doing it in a party just makes it more interesting. I'd rather play RT in a party which blocks most rockets instead of dodging them (Many may understand why this is annoying) than soloing.

Plus soloing (many) missions or arcade make them take longer to complete plus you don't get any support. Ever died when soloing? Well, maybe you wouldn't have died if you were in a party as someone could've killed the monster before it killed you.

Even that little 1-square push can be very helpful sometimes.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 12:09

#12

Kickthebucket

i team up only to do vanaduke

i team up only to do vanaduke (wich i haven't done since the update and i'm lvl'ing a few dark type weapons (wich the forge screws up every fricking time)

i don't like playing with strangers and out of the 100+ friends on steam nobody plays the game... my old team quit long ago and i've been playing solo ever since... why the hell should i care to get 4 times the minerals??? you can run as much as you want so FARM! (and still have enough to get my sprite to lvl 100)

also the time i did team up just to check the new loot system... the crown payout was so diffrent it was so obvious it sucks -_-
i don't like running around looking for my loot because some schmuck runs off into the horizon only to see him on a party button and the elevator! so no thank you... OOO didn't encourage me to team up... on the contrary i might continue doing vanaduke solo!

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 12:16

#13

Demonicsothe

Someone's antisocial...

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 12:55

#14

Gravelord-Caste

The Truths don't provide any Answers

I don't solo by choice, but it's not like the Arcade's all hustle and bustle.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 12:56

#15

Hexzyle

i don't like playing with strangers

Why play an MMO then?

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 14:23

#16

Klipik-Forum

I agree with the steam poster, the update did not encourage teamwork. It "fixed" the problem by making parties more like solo while watching other people play the same instance, instead of adding teamwork features. I like most of the rest of the update, but it still really irks me when a guildmate asks for help, and I can't really do anything but pay for them.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 14:46

#17

Heavencupcake

I don't like to play with

I don't like to play with strangers either. Almost every PUG made me quit party immediately - not because of lags, but mostly because of people who are ready to kill others with fork for stupid reasons. I do missions with my friends. We know each other good enough to know, like, who hoards which vials just to throw them at elevators.

New loot system has some pros and cons - nobody throws a temper tantrum over item/rare mat anymore. I've been kicking out of party several times, because party leader threw a hissy fit over a vitapod I picked up by accident - I want to drop it, I don't need it, I can handle it without additional pipes of health, but I couldn't do that after one of updates.

Another update, I can't get vitapod for the whole FSC run because for some reason they're as rare as DFS - meanwhile my partymate picks up +15 after when he was running around with +12. Of course +12 gets replaced and destroyed by +15 one.

That's one of cons. Want another? I want to drop a sleep vial I picked up by accident - it happens all the time for me, especially when I'm bombing with DR. I can't see a poop, not mentioning vials lying around. I can't drop them to make place for remedy/pills, I have to throw them and waste precious seconds (pulling it out+aiming+throwing it away whilst standing for a brief moment in one spot), making myself vulnerable. I'm still the only one person who can use them, why this???

Another thing, dropping pills - there's a player good enough to not use any remedy/pill whilst fighting a boss. And there's another one who ain't got enough luck, used everything (you've got no idea how easily some players waste remedies by accident). Better player wants to help - they cannot because game doesn't allow them to do so.

SK is slowly changing from co-op game to "this is mine only mine don't touch that thing it's mine i peed on it it's mine go aWEY" game. I understand you want to fight that alt-playing thing but now it's slowly getting a wee bit paranoid.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 14:52

#18

Wodanct

One of my friends did a FSC with me after the update. By time we reached Vanaduke I still had no vitapod. She wanted to give me hers and constantly saw vitapods the whole run but I saw 0. She hasn't logged back on since... and after a week I'm getting pretty bored of doing all the same things again just with a pet following me around.

On that note. I agree with the name Spiral "Knight". I can go join a party. Everything that drops is mine only. I can't share. I can't help others.. to a degree.
Sure I can use one of my 70+ sparks of life to revive someone else but why should I do that? I wouldn't. I'd gladly give them 50% of my hp but not my sparks. Person needs a pill so they won't die? Too bad.

You can play in a party. There is less teamwork involved now. The only teamwork is killing enemies. The loot, pills, vials, and pods, are all instanced and you can't share with other players to help them anymore. You can waste a spark to revive them when they die and don't have one of their own but you can't just straight up give them a pill to heal them or use a HP rev on them.

I won't waste my spark though. I'm greedy.

(This is why I either solo or only play with friends)

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 22:56

#19

Good-Spirit

If anything this update

If anything this update encourages partying hardcore.

Don't know what they were thinking.... Ah well,

It's one's right to complain about a free game i suppose.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 23:55

#20

Retequizzle

I'm perfectly fine with

I'm perfectly fine with partying up with people or going solo. This update has done nothing to influence my decision for that at all, since after you get the basic ideas for stuff you want, the only time loot matters is if it's specifically to get something without having to buy it off the AH. Anything after that is excess which you may or may not need later on.

The old co-op functionality served more as a competitive co-op mode of sorts, whereas this build facilitates a more purely cooperative experience for all players, and eliminates an underlying experience where you're essentially competing for the best stuff to complete the run with. The only things that are even remotely competitive, with that in mind, is the market for food ironically enough.

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 00:26

#21

Heavy-Dragon

I, for one, do not think

that the lack of not benefiting explicitly from partying in terms of mats or crowns should discourage you from partying.

YOU'RE GETTING A SOCIAL FACTOR, PEOPLE.

That is reward enough.

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 01:54

#22

Uryell

I am not looking for social

I am looking for team play. I want my teamates to be helpfull about team surviving. I want being able to share my life and vials in order to balance the life and role (give the freeze vials to the "freezer", give the remed to the user of faust).
This would be a real team play. I am no longer looking for a gameplay i ahve been experimenting for years, I want to share my pleasure and my fun with my friends.

Spiral Knight is not absolutely free, the players who paid for ce have the right to complain. And they must be listened by the devs

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 04:56

#23

Rscnyx

allies r good

Having allies multiplies the types of weapons you have at your disposal, which can help a lot. You may only have a Normal and Elemental weapon against Goblins and Beasts, struggling a bit, but then someone comes in with a Shadow and Piercing weapon. Having a premade group with a diverse weapon loadout can make going through things a lot easier.

And Spiral Knights is technically free to play, a lot more than many other games. You can earn Energy by trading it for Crowns, and use that Energy for whatever. To make Crowns, even at low levels, just sell materials on the Auction House. If you don't feel like, you know, actually playing the game, just pay some money for it, I guess.

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 10:26

#24

Shotjeer

Parties are still good

Only if you don't have that 4* nub ash tail in your FSC spamming the chat up with "OMFG REV MEH SO DAT I CAN DO STUVS IF YA DONT I WILL REPORT YOU AND YOU WILL BE BANNED DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME????>:("

EDIT: And "Spiral Knights" rolls off your tongue more easily than "Spiral Knights". That makes it feel incomplete.

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 10:38

#25

Retequizzle

@ Uryell

(give the freeze vials to the "freezer", give the remed to the user of faust).

Yeah let's go ahead and give the remedy to the idiot who decided using a Faust/Gran Faust charge was a good idea. I mean it only takes a solid ten seconds to charge, and has more of a chance of cursing yourself than anyone else.

Let's also listen to the guy who's trying to justify his opinion as essentially "more valid" and something that "must be listened by the devs" (your words, not mine) based solely off the fact that he threw his wallet at the computer screen a couple of times. Sounds like a solid way to get things really interesting.

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 05:34

#26

Uryell

@Retequizzle

Why not using a faust's charged attack. It can be a good strategy in some situation ... Anyway, that s not the matter. You just disagree with the examples i chose, but i dont care about my examples, I care about my idea.

I didn't say " I " must be listened by the devs, but the players who paid for ce must be listened by the devs. And, for my part, i didn't spend any $ in this game. So I am not even talking about me ^^

In fact you misunderstood my whole message ...

Anyway, i quite agree wih your previous comment. And i thin i can resume my opinion about the loot system : The old system was nice for the players who play with friends and can discuss on Skype/mumble or whatever about the organisation of the team. But the old system was quite bad for those who party with unknown players. As you said, this is a competitive system.
Then, about the new system, it fosters to party with unknown. And then anyone can complain about the behavior of one player.

For my partm i play with friends, that s why i prefer the last system ...

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