Current thoughts of the preview event?
Di, 11/16/2010 - 19:41
Especially asking those who played in previous preview events, but all can contribute.
What do you guys think of SK so far?
My thoughts:
First thing, its such a huge change from the epic fun game it use to be. It's been going SO BAD that some members of SGA (Spiral Gods Alliance), the most famous guild in SK made up of the BIGGEST fans of the game, are complaining and leaving. When the players who've been loyal since the first preview til now leave, it should be clear that the game took a complete wrong turn somewhere along the lines, heading for failure.
Second thing, the fact that the game basically converted to PaytoPlay (YES, it is pay to play. you won't be able to get anywhere without CE, or a generous helping hand from others who has CE). (1)Nowadays, everything needs energy, and more than Mist will provide. You'll never be able to go from Haven to Core from one full tank, seeing as 100 energy's enough only to get from Haven>Moorcroft. Next day would get you to Emberlight if you don't energy revive much. The next day MIGHT get you to the core, if you don't spend any energy on revives/extra gates. (2)Revives goes from 10 energy and can double to a crazy number, trinket slots are 150 energy, extra weapon slots are 250 energy (both only lasts 30 days), and crafting goes from 50-200 energy. Obviously i know that the company's trying to make profit from this project, but really? no better ideas? What're crowns again?
Third thing, the lack of something to do in Haven and moorcroft led to the separation between the experienced players and the new ones, and everyone in between. Experienced players wants to spend the least energy for the best, meaning Lvl 3 gates in Emberlight. Newer players CANT get to Emberlight for lots of reasons, thus new players would come in, see an almost empty Haven and thought the game must suck, that's why it's empty. then they'll probably try the dragonfly gate, spending energy, leading to their finding out the way to get energy is to buy, thus found out why the game's empty in the first place, and quit. WITHOUT ever finding out the players in Moorcroft, Emberlight, and inbetween, and without knowing other ways to get energy. Last preview everything's in one map, which negatively led to lag in the city, but positively enabling the players to communicate, trade, and helping the new players effectively. Not saying we should only have 1 city, but something that can only be found in haven to keep old and new players together.
whoa, that's kinda long.. i'll stop there, i guess. Important points stated, anything else to add from others?
Di, 11/16/2010 - 20:12
#2
They're leaving because they're 12 and don't have a credit card
There are a lot of things wrong with the game right now.
But it's a Preview because they are testing things out before they open the game to the public.
If we help them find things and fix them instead of bitching and whining about it (or maybe because we do), eventually the game will be at a state that we all consider fun and enjoyable for everyone.
That being said, I haven't played the game in nearly two weeks and nothing has really changed.
It's not really disappointing to me, I'm glad it hasn't changed because it means I'm not missing anything cool and exciting.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 20:34
#3
YPP
players from YPP, as i'm one, can play the game all day+night long if they want, and only gaining more in dubs and poe. in SK, you'll be losing huge amount of Crystals, and gain much crowns if you're in Ember, though not much if you'll be using the crowns to buy more energy.
And i don't mean to be "bitching and whining" obviously, i'm just pointing out the aspects of the game that fails
Di, 11/16/2010 - 20:40
#4
"SGA (Spiral Gods Alliance),
"SGA (Spiral Gods Alliance), the most famous guild in SK made up of the BIGGEST fans of the game, are complaining and leaving"
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second here, I thought SGA was crumbling because of lack of leadership. SGA needs a real leader, someone who will be there. Someone you can count on. What I mean is... Kymroi for president.
Anyway.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and I don't mean to discredit your thread at all, but a lot of what you've mentioned has already been heavily discussed on the forums. Especially in the last couple days.
Here's a quote from one of the devs, Cory, on energy:
"This is a dangerous topic for developers to tread upon, but I do want to let you guys know: This is the first phase of the Preview Event. Right now, we're mostly just trying to get players into the game, see some early behavior patterns, and most importantly, make sure things on the technical side aren't horribly broken. In subsequent phases, we're going to be focusing much more closely on the energy system, payment models, and getting all of that stuff where it ought to be. So! Do know that we're listening to your ideas and concerns. If you don't see movement right now on things, it's not because we're not interested; we're just not to that phase yet."
And I do think it's a shame that there's essentially no reason to go to Haven or Moorcroft once you've reached Emberlight. But again, as Cory said in a thread earlier today or yesterday, is that the game should be getting harder soon so the levels below Emberlight won't be nearly as easy to solo. I'm not sure how that will end up working out, we shall see. In any case, we definitely need a reason to go back to Haven and Moorcroft. There has to be something there for us to need to use (Haven Auction House, please!), so once our travel passes expire we don't hang out in Emberlight all the time and have pigtail parties.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 20:51
#5
Sorry for the newbie question, but...
Sorry for the newbie question, but... Haven isn't the only town? o_O I've heard of these Emberlight places and stuff but there's nothing on the Wiki or anywhere on other "towns" so I just figured they were just higher-leveled gates in the Arcade... hah. How exactly would I get to these places and be able to see more than two players on my screen at once?
On topic: I've not played SK an awful lot so far (started not even a week ago), but so far I think it's fun and non-worrisome. Although I can see why past players might be upset over the whole Energy thing, and cannot blame them, neither can I blame the SK creators who need to make money somehow. Plus, as Shoebox said, it is just in the Preview stages - in otherwords: there's a lot of work to be done. Honestly, $10.00 for 3,500 EC seems like a decent deal to me, plus the 25% bonus during the official release. I'm thinking that these rates will stay the same, but, if anything, the cost for gates and such would change.
Playing a game in a preview/beta means testing what the authors have to offer so far and making your own contributions. It doesn't mean just stating and complaining about the bad things about the game, it means trying to suggest solutions for them. Otherwise, you're just bogging down the rest of the community that is trying to do their generous part. If it were to be played seriously and with full expectations then it wouldn't be a beta.
Aside from that, I know it's lacking a lot (mostly the player base and integration), but that's because it is a beta, and I am willing to help in whatever ways I can to make it better. I think it's fun, unique, and I especially like the fact that I'm not seeing laughably exaggerated cleavage/muscles (and all that other stuff they throw in there to call in the cattle) with every second NPC I talk to or player avatar I come across. But that's just me; and I like SK for these things. I hope SK grows, and I believe it will, and as it does so I hope it retains these values.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 20:50
#6
...
... that's another player who just happened to have the same name.
ANYWAYS!
yes, i know the energy problems has been discussed, but i'm just saying that SK is still getting new players, most of which doesn't go into the forums unless they took big interest. keep in mind most of the recent updates are bug fixes, which we definitely need, but not as heavy as the energy problem being solved.
Action house be put only in Haven, that's a really great idea :D
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:10
#7
Black, don't be ashamed.
Black, don't be ashamed. Embrace the inner pigtails you're wearing underneath your costume slot.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:14
#8
Dubplooms, dubplooms errywhere.
You saw what I did.
I SEE WHAT YOU SEE AND I SAW YOU SEE WHAT I DID.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:15
#9
All hail to the glory of the
All hail to the glory of the TWIN SPIRAL TAILS
I want a triple tail now.....
Seem's like moorcroft is rather deserted last time I went, wonder what happened....
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:26
#10
By the way, If you asked me
By the way, If you asked me one particular reason why the current energy system will fail, it is this: If you buy energy, and then use it to do a level and then DIE inside, it feels like you just lost real money. No one likes that feeling. No one will want to pay for that feeling in the long run.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:29
#11
@Chronus, there are two other
@Chronus, there are two other towns other than Haven at the moment. They are on the wiki, though a lot of the wiki pages aren't inter-connected very well.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Moorcroft_Manor
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Emberlight
Di, 11/16/2010 - 21:46
#12
@Rose: Okay thanks, that's a
@Rose: Okay thanks, that's a tad of motivation. :D No wonder I couldn't find them on the Wiki; maybe next time I'll try literally typing the topic of interest into the address bar, hah.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 22:22
#13
> Sorry for the newbie
> Sorry for the newbie question, but... Haven isn't the only town? o_O I've heard of these Emberlight places and stuff but there's nothing on the Wiki or anywhere on other "towns" so I just figured they were just higher-leveled gates in the Arcade... hah. How exactly would I get to these places and be able to see more than two players on my screen at once?
Sorry. Fixed the redirect for "Town" to "Towns". So now you'll see a stub about the three towns instead.
Roughly speaking, Moorcroft Manner is around floor 7, and Emberlight is around floor 16. You have to be able to go that far down to reach them.
Easy enough to do with someone else.
Di, 11/16/2010 - 22:34
#14
hmm
yes, i agree with chronus that it's still in beta phase and still needs work, thus i'm pointing out the things need to be fixed, and also hoping the community could contribute ideas and we could discuss them here, such as auctionhouse located in Haven to keep the more experienced players coming back. I'll also hope that SK will grow to be one of the top games for their originality and fun idea, combined with the awesome community and cool dev's and GM's :) 3.5k crystal for $10 bucks IS a decent deal. I haven't seen any1, myself included, complain about it. it's just that the people who DO buy crystals with real money are mostly hardcore players, and the rate at which they spend the crystals is too.. hardcore.
@Inschato but keep in mind that most of the experienced players rarely dies. I myself honestly dies less when i'm soloing a gate than when i'm with a party, but that's because i know that if i die in a party they'll revive me, so i can go a little reckless ;) and if i solo the only way i can revive is spending crystals, so i am fully on guard at all times.. rarely die, really.
@Rose ugh, haven't seen Mesona in a long while.. usually she worked out the wiki.. but i'll see what i can do when i have time, though most of the time i'm working on the equipments side.. and no, u don't have any proof i wore pigtails under my costume :P
Di, 11/16/2010 - 22:49
#15
locked..
@Rose On second thought, the exploration page is locked, so i can't do anything about connecting the towns into it..
what i CAN do tho is link the 3 towns' pages, but i'll do that Wednesday morning..
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 01:20
#16
back on topic
instead of complaining about new people quitting, why don't we help the newbies?
i'm constantly going back to haven just because i get bored of sitting in emberlight not moving because i want to go for a core run. i always round up new players if i find them and i will play with them. yes i know their incredibly greedy to begin with ( i don't care its mostly because they havnt realised that most of the time the settings are round robin) but if they are successful in making it to another town, ill reward them with one of my many prissy alchemers (yes, i have taken up creating new ones constantly everytime i leave the house as i generally have the materials and crowns, i also realised alching will generate you mist faster if thats all you do). it's fun, i enjoy it.
and more on the energy topic, i seem to get along fine with my 100 a day mist (more a day if i alch), and i find it amusing that i almost get to the core and realise i have no energy left. sure in the beginning i agreed with everyone else, but after i wasted 7500 energy in the space of a month, i learned conserving energy was actually pretty easy. one thing i do agree with atm is the amount of energy newbies need, with the constant dying, experimenting with recipes and 'need' for stuff like heavy and drake. so itd be nice to see newbies start of with like 500 CE.... but then again this would just be abused by people making accounts and resetting them for more energy..... or you could make it untradeable or soming.
just my views, contradict me/ tell me of/ eat me (o_0) if you please.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 10:31
#17
making alchs increase mist
making alchs increase mist regen rate? O.O can you get any1 to confirm this?
7500 energy i would deplete in about a week if i play as long as i want..
and again, we can't be going to Haven all the time simply for the purpose of helping out newbies. It would be ok if the Ember teleport are unlimited as long as we've reached there at least once, but since this is not the case, it can get expensive crowns and energy considered.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 12:57
#18
Once you feel comfortable in
Once you feel comfortable in Emberlight, there is ZERO reason to leave Emberlight. It is simply a waste of energy. The crown payout is MUCH larger in emberlight. They need to either do something like make a cumulative bonus for playing from Haven to Emberlight, or level out the crown rewards or something (or both). In a Moorcraft Manor run I seem to net about 2-3k crowns. In an Emberlight run I net about 10-11k crowns. One thing I find annoying about some games is that when you're higher "level" or whatever system the game uses you tend to get better rewards. And equipment prices are balanced with that in mind, making it so that it's almost impossible to save up for those cool items in the lower zones. I think the crown payouts should be relatively even and just use only prices to make better gear harder to get.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 13:08
#19
I find that equipment prices
I find that equipment prices issue a personally well known annoyance issue aswell. You progress deeper in the game, make more money faster, but then still bump on equipment that gets expensive much quicker than you can pay for. Personally I've skipped most of the 1250 crowns gear just because I progressed beyond that level as soon as I was able to afford those items. Right now I'm kind of stuck at earning money for more expensive gear that's just right for my level now, but again when I get the money I'll have gone up to needing better equipment again I bet :p
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 13:38
#20
ideas for Haven?
Yes, we all agreed that there's complete zero attraction for player who're comfortable in Ember to come up to Haven. If anybody have suggestions for the future of haven, something in haven that would make experienced players come back up, then say so.
keep in mind that the best equipments cannot be bought, but rather crafted. it requires a Lv 5 of previous lower star equipment + materials needed, some of which are rare and need lots of crowns to buy. Also needed is the 200 energy requirement, which nowadays are very expensive. it causes people to be broke all the time, and unable to get energy because they're broke.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 13:50
#21
edited
"In an Emberlight run I net about 10-11k crowns."
I think this has been brought up before, but one thing that has bothered me is that everyone wants to solo because people can get so much more heat/crowns/etc. I feel like the amount of crowns/heat/items should scale according to how many people are in the party. If you're doing an Emberlight run all by yourself, I feel like you should only get a 2.5k crowns instead of 10k.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 13:52
#22
If there's ZERO reason to
If there's ZERO reason to leave emberlight, hoe come most of the time i see people essentially wasting energy when they have a full bar of mist because they cant make it to the core? I don't see how going back to haven is wasteful at all, esspecially when there are better shops in haven. I also find it more relaxing than standing in the arcade all day. Anyway I'm sure there'll be stuff to do in haven and moorcroft pretty soon. Like in haven theres still the east side in construction, in moor, there seems to be endless paths going nowhere..... seems suspicious for new content areas.
and back to Black's very first comment. Here are some quotes from the SGA forum, about the greats who are basically leaving due to this energy stuff on the topic of "I'm out".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zaf: "yea i'm out too.. this forum is set as one of my daily sites and if for what ever reason Delux desides to take it down i'll probs start jumping on the old forum again..
the whole SK energy thing made it really had for us to play together as much as we used to.. and now we're all at the point were we just can't be stuffed.. gimme a buzz on facebook though if you see me"
Mav: "Well, Idk what to say to this one. Personally, I've been thinking along those lines, but I never got myself past the idea of at least dropping down to regular member. Honestly, I stopped seeing myself as a head of this guild back when the second preview closed. You guys make of it what you want; I'm not pulling the reins on this one; I've spent too much time trying to rally people together"
Delux: "What happened to this guild? Nobody wants to play this new ****. Our guild leader isnt on. Nobody I want to play sk with is on. Sk is ****? That too.
I hate to be the worst, but I think we've outgrown our places here. We've been cooped up to much with nothing to do.
I'm leaving the site up for anybody to do whatever they like with it, but I'm not interested in SK any more, and thus I'll be the selfish hypocrite and bail."
Astralknight: "I hate seeing people go T-T it really isn't the same without everyone being so active. Idk what happened with SK. Too many things changed that limited the game time we had together... and school is obviously part of something in everyone's lives, and which has always been a problem for me. SK is what brought us all together, and because of our close ties to the game, it's what will bring us down. The "let's unify as a guild once more" thing probably won't work this time. I'm not sure where this guild will end up, but I don't want us to separated there's gotta be something we can all agree on and that we can all commit to with our daily lives not interfering with it... So Jesus, please don't go just yet"
Raii: "Argh I might have to agree, I cant even remeber the last time I came here becuase I wanted to, not as a chore to keep up with everyone who has grown far apart. But I guess I could keep coming at least once a week?"
Me (fallout): "gah, yeh im feeling pretty much the same, although i cant stop but wonder whatll happen next.... will we reappear final launch? or is that it?"
QuickChat convo (bottom --> up):
Fallout: im talking bout sk, but i also mean in game with other guild.
November 14, 2010, 03:40:04 PM
Riodaisho: I'm talking about SK or are there threads I can't see?
November 14, 2010, 10:08:26 AM
Delux: hahaha
November 14, 2010, 10:00:12 AM
Riodaisho: Well, nobody really seems to care anymore for SK, leaders are always away or absent in SK
November 14, 2010, 08:33:17 AM
Fallout: seriously what happened to this guild?
November 14, 2010, 05:50:02 AM
Riodaisho: me too
November 14, 2010, 04:56:12 AM
Fallout: i feel so alone these days
November 14, 2010, 12:54:05 AM
Fallout: where is everyone
November 14, 2010, 12:53:54 AM
and yet no reply from ty....
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 13:55
#23
hmm..
lol Rose..
@Fall yeah, hopefully east Haven will be the actionhouse or market. i didn't hear anything about Moor though, so idk what'll become of the dead-end paths.
And the only reason older players come back to haven or moor is 1-to get required equips which they need to upgrade into something better or 2- to get passes to moor and/or ember.
and yes, i've read the threads.. that's why it's sad :'(
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 14:52
#24
Its not entirely the
Its not entirely the energy.
Im Jesus, or Delux now because my name was censored. I've been keeping up with SK since November of last year if I recall correctly. Which I know isnt a long time compared to some of you guys that have been here since the first release. Whatever.
SGA isnt falling apart from lack of leadership. Its falling apart from lack of interest. I'm intrigued by Shoebox, who said "eventually the game will be at a state that we all consider fun and enjoyable for everyone." Not the kind of logic I remember from the Shoebox vs. Mav saga. No game is ever at a state thats fun and enjoyable for everyone, and as much as you may want to believe it, beta's aren't far off from the final.
I don't enjoy this game for several reasons. Namely because it has lost its pickup-and-play value. Whereas in previous releases we were able to explore and master levels with friends comfortably, we're now faced with overpowered enemies and nerfed weapons. Reasons for this? The more you spend to revive, the higher the demand for currency becomes ingame. The betas I knew weren't based off greedy systems designed to watch you fail, such as the one in place now.
There was a wiki, and I'm not sure if anyone remembers it. However the SGA put one in place, keeping it professional and easy to use. I was planning on moving it to an ad-free website, and hosting it free of charge. Nick and some of the other admins knew of this wiki, yet they decided to release one without the courtesy of letting us know in advance that ours would be outmatched, making all the content and work put into it null.
If any of the admins are reading this I'd like to remind you that we met last November. We were a small group, Tyran, Raii, Astral, Mav, Zafirbel, and me. You guys have no idea how much we adored your game. Your game was so good that it kept all of us together for a year, waiting for the next release, just so we could play more SK.
At the least though, I do want to thank you for the memories you guys helped make with the second preview. But right now its just a dissapointment on all sides.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 17:16
#25
the other towns don't seem to add much value
I'd say get rid of Emberlight and Moorcroft. Equip the gate lobby with multiple elevators (a la terminal). The regular elevator goes to floor 1. Another elevator could go to floor 8 and yet another to 16 or somesuch. Require an elevator pass for the latter two. This way Haven can be the starting point for both new and experienced players, without trying to "lure" experienced players to a town where they don't really want to go (it does cost 1000 crowns whisking between towns, not everyone nets 10k on a single run, certainly not me). Luring people back to Haven sounds to me like we're trying to fix the wrong problem.
I don't see what Emberlight is adding anyway, besides a deeper entry point into certain gates.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 17:34
#26
Christ on a cracker, it's Christ on a cracker!
No game is ever at a state thats fun and enjoyable for everyone.
I'm not going to defend my statement.
But I wouldn't be here after a year if I didn't think it could get close.
It's nowhere near it right now, but there's practically nothing in the game.
There's at least three times as much stuff in there now as there was before.
But it's still barely a shell of a game.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 20:48
#27
"free to play"
I do not agree
"free to play"
I do not agree with this at all
in my opinion, free to play means if everyone played for free, the game would still work
This game requires people to buy crystal energy, and use it, or sell to other players
Crystal energy is needed for pretty much everything at the moment
I liked the old gate system in the previews more than this one
Set gates, with levels that had at least 3 different versions
You could go in with friends, anytime you wanted, and each gate was different
Now, its clockwork tunnel after clockwork tunnel, which sucks
If possible I would like to see a mix of the two systems, kinda
I dont think gates should cycle out
Gates should stay
Say you give us two gates to start with
This can be like, A jelly fields gate, and a like a wolvers gate, idk
We play through these gates, and at the end is the old victory map, with that vendor who sold decent equips
But theres a new option now, after each run, you can choose which mineral type you would want to deposit
These minerals are just blank minerals you pick up during your course, but they have no color until you hand them over
Players can create dusk drops in town from other materials and bring them to put in too
When the devs feel we have put in enough minerals, new gates pop up
These gate systems would be unique to each town
When enough gates are open in a town, the last gate's vendor in the victory gardens will offer you a town pass
But, you need tickets, these tickets would be given each time you complete the gate, and bind to you too
This way players would have to play through and not just skip through to other towns
The next town would have the same system, but completely different gates
This would ensure players would work together to advance in the game
And players can't advance to the very last part of the clockworks, and do infinite core runs
There could be one core gate in the middle of haven, but to get in
You need tickets from every single gate
and if you fail, you need to get em again, this would create a sense of danger, you fail, you can't go back for a while
And gates wouldn't require energy per level, they would require energy per gate
If you have to logout, or the game shuts down, power outage or something, the game would save the level your on, and you would have to redo it
This is just my idea, I think it could work, but it'd require some work to perfect, I would like this more than the current one
But, its just an idea, doesn't mean its gonna be put in
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 21:10
#28
I agree...
I honestly agree completely with Deluxnate... enough said.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 21:45
#29
@Fallout: Can you please edit
@Fallout: Can you please edit your post to remove that very long horizontal line of dashes? It does make it hard to read the page by forcing a very wide width.
@Kymroi: (and people said my posts were hard to read):
> Now, its clockwork tunnel after clockwork tunnel, which sucks
Yes, how the levels are created has a problem. Players need more guidance and information. When special levels are made, I think it would be better if they dig down instead of across (so, for example, you could go on as many as 4 floors of slumber castle if you wanted to)
One thing I think would help is if CT's had something special that other levels did not have, and at the same time, other levels had something that CT didn't. If CT is supposed to be the infrastructure, maybe it can have maintenance robots and gremlins on all floors. Maybe they regard the jellies and other things as intrusive as you (so if you don't get them fast enough, the maintenance bots will clean things up, and take your crowns/heat.) Maybe those anti-intruder guard dogs (aka gun puppies) don't fire at the gremlins; maybe the heart puppies do fire at gremlins.
(So why do CT's have spiked floors?)
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:00
#30
no..... deal with it
no..... deal with it
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:09
#31
@behindcurtai
Your posts
@behindcurtai
Your posts aren't hard to read
They're just way too long
and you post a new topic every other hour
This is just a preview
We don't need the devs to worry about every single little tiny thing thats an inconvenience to you
And I agree with jesus(deluxnate)
The devs should really rethink some parts of the game
I miss a lot of the old times I had with the SGA
Like getting on vent and playing with a party of SGA members, looking for rares
Now instead of rares, it a bunch of materials that are more than rare, they just seem to be myths
You can't play as much as you want to, this preview which is "free", is literally
An excuse to make some money in my opinion
I mean you guys do need to fix bugs and everything
But the drastic changes from free as can be, to NO, give us money first did catch me by surprise
Barely anyone plays now, Im solo-ing everything now that I realize it
Ignore my last comment about gates completely
Now that I think about it, We need the old system back for testing now
It let people play, and experience how the game felt
It summed up the game in a couple days, equipment, maps, community
Now, its been taken, and stretched beyond its limit
Please, just please, possibly bring back the old gate system
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:20
#32
Hey guys.
I think all of us on the team agree that the game still isn't what we hope it one day will be. We all have very grand visions, and we're doing our best to make Spiral Knights live up to our own high standards, as well as those of our players.
In order for Spiral Knights to live and to get that opportunity to meet its potential, we do need to make sure the business side of things is working. After all, Spiral Knights is not a guaranteed success yet. I totally understand those that feel the energy system is currently too punitive, but part of the Preview Event is finding out both what works and what doesn't work. That means it'll be a bit of a bumpy ride, and you guys will have plenty of "what were they thinking?" moments, but in the end, it's all in service of making Spiral Knights what it should be.
If, ultimately, bearing with us through the bumpy parts of the ride is something you're not interested in, that's perfectly fine. We're all extremely thankful for spending your time with us in the Preview Event and sharing your feedback; I hope you'll keep checking in with Spiral Knights, and play again once we launch. We'll hopefully have found a better balance by then, and trust me: the best is yet to come!
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:36
#33
Astral, Jesus
heyyy, haven't seen you guys anywhere.. :(
and my point is, people are LEAVING. there's not much we can do in a day, and if i hadn't met Tyr after i ran out of mist i would've probably stopped for lack of things to do. All SGA members have waited for a long time for the new preview event to come, but the new changes that comes with it crushed the expectation of fun that we thought we'll have similar to the last preview.
also, i agree that in this preview people solo the gates all the time. last preview it's very rare to solo, because everyone wants to play together and there's a community available for party. nowadays, lack of people available and a purpose to hunt for items/materials kept the players running gates solo.
And i agree with Kym. old gate's better, even though the new gates are great, i admit, but simply the way the gates work doesn't make alot of people happy.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:41
#34
> In order for Spiral Knights
> In order for Spiral Knights to live and to get that opportunity to meet its potential, we do need to make sure the business side of things is working.
I fully understand that.
I fully understand the model of "Give people a chance to pay even in development; the more people are willing to pay, the better business the game will be when released"
I not only understand it, I support it.
If I could change one thing about the current payment system, (and I've already mentioned this), then whenever someone buys 100 units of energy, have the game supply 300 units into the system. If N is the current best sell price, then put 100 units at N-(?), 100 units at N-2(?), and sell 100 directly to the best buy price. (How big of a discount? From 18,000 crowns per 100 energy, 100 crowns might be the right step.)
Is that too much energy to put into the system? Maybe. It's basically adding 100 energy every time someone buys 100 energy, and acting as a crown sink for people who have way too much crowns and want some more energy. If that is too much, tune it down. If beta testers really are limited by energy costs, and you want that to change, then change it.
> you post a new topic every other hour
This is just a preview
We don't need the devs to worry about every single little tiny thing that's an inconvenience to you
So ... I'm very interested in the game, I'm very enthusiastic about it, I like it, and see great potential in it, I want to see it become a really good game, with a lot of people playing, and you think I'm being too interested, and too eager to try to improve it?
I see a big gap between where it is now, and where it can be; so do the devs from what they've said here. Will the end design look anything at all like I think a game should look? I don't know. I do know that if I don't say anything, my ideas won't even be considered; by giving my ideas out, they can be considered, and the final game will look more like what I want it to look like.
Still think I should stop posting ideas, issues, and concerns?
If anything, I'm really amazed that this game runs so much better than Bang! Howdy did, and a three-D world with creatures moving is more intensive than what was basically a 2D map with cardboard counters running around. B!H had graphics for the sake of graphics, and they took away from the game, and the playability on then-recent hardware. SK is actually running better on the same hardware that B!H did not.
So that's already kudos.
The only thing I'd like to see from the devs that we haven't seen so far is: What do you see as the "end product" for SK? The AARRR paper was stressing "pivot early, pivot quickly" -- the same view as "fail faster". The fastest way to find out that an idea is bad is to present it before spending the time/money to implement it.
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 22:58
#35
@BC
The main drawback of the current game is the energy system. obviously it needs changes/improvements, but we haven't seen any new ideas to be "presented" concerning that topic.. ever.
and for ur energy idea, what's this "system" you speak of? "Whenever someone buys 100 units of energy, have the game supply 300 units into the system." buys energy from..? cash or exchange? and where will the 300 energy come from? where is it going to go? gotta be explicit dude
Mi, 11/17/2010 - 23:48
#36
No new ideas? Seriously? I've
No new ideas? Seriously? I've given TWO.
To repeat this idea, with the SAME DETAILS repeated:
If someone buys 100 units of energy with cash, then 100 units are sold by the game to the highest bidder (which directly doubles the supply of energy to the beta testers), and supply another 100 on the market at 100 crowns less than the current best sell, and another 100 on the market at 100 crowns below that. Those two might never fill -- other players might decide to sell for less. But it will act to lower the price of the exchange.
The result of this? More energy will be sold to beta testers as energy is purchased. More energy in the hands of testers means more testing and playing being done. At the same time, this will act as a minor crown sink.
Now, the disadvantage: As this will flood the market with energy, at least initially, we'll see the price of energy drop; this in turn will reduce the amount of energy purchased for resell. It is entirely possible that the total amount of energy available for players to spend (mist, purchased energy, and game selling to buyers) will not change; if that happens, then the income stream to Three Rings will go down. Now, that's not in and of itself a problem -- if the point of the income from energy selling during beta is simply to serve as an indicator of player interest, then this is just scaling that by a constant factor. It still provides the indicator of player interest, and has not lost any value.
If the goal is to actually bring in some early funding (not that much of an oddball idea, actually; history is full of early business startups that provided cheap initial pricing to early adopters), then this idea will hurt. However, somewhere there is a price point (or in this case, a supplemental energy selling rate) that will improve player experience and not hurt the income stream. I just don't know what it is.
Do, 11/18/2010 - 00:44
#37
seriously curtai sure you may
seriously curtai sure you may be incredibly enthusiastic about the game, you don't actually own it. you can put your opinion in, but don't act as if you own sk. i for one am basically skipping every comment you make these days so if you actually reply...... you'll get the message "no....deal with it".
please actually consider playing the game a bit more than living on the threads.
Do, 11/18/2010 - 01:11
#38
Cory, it's cool that you guys
Cory, it's cool that you guys are able to say that your own expectations aren't being met. I've seen a few different games become irrelevant because the devs never took the time to figure out what works and what doesn't. I personally find the game a real refresher from the "blockbuster AAA" titles flying around these days (there's a real hard-on for marines and zombies these days). It's been a while since the last update now so I suspect there's something cooking, like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Do, 11/18/2010 - 05:48
#39
What Sucks About Energy..
Hi there, My name is Zafirbel.. I've been a member of the SGA since we first formed.. and recently I've dropped my game play down to half an hour to an hour a week (i like to check to see if there are any noticeable updates)
I honestly can't stand this game at the moment and what little faith i have left is slowly dwindling away..
i don't think i have ever played another "F2P" game that punishes it's players for not paying..
Quite simply the problem with your energy system is that it LIMITS GAMEPLAY! Gamers have a general idea of how long they want to play in a game. I know when i plan to play a game on a day off i intend to play at least 3-5 hours before i take a break.. and that may well be the only 3-5 hours i have free in the day to play. There is no way i want that time i've set aside to be cut off or spent waiting to get a little extra energy.. and then to find out that after spending hours collecting materials and recipes i can't even craft anything without forking over some cash.. Do you see where i am coming from?
Why would it be so terrible to lower the cost of elevators and crafting? what am i missing here? If somebody has spent days worth of game play on a game and they enjoy it then what's $10-20 in a month going to matter?
After just 2 weeks of playing Regnum Online i went ahead and bought a mount and after a month on Conquer Online i forked over some cash to buy dragonballs.. I didn't need a mount in Regnum Online to play for hours on end.. it just made things faster.. i didn't need to buy dragonballs in Conquer Online.. i could have collected them over the period of a couple of months.. What i'm saying is in those kinds of games i paid to save time in game so i could do more.. in SK though you pay just to keep playing.. paying doesn't save you time.. actually the general opinion seems to be that it "costs" you rather then "saves" you anything.. why would anyone want to play that?
So somebody.. convince me.. why should i bother playing SK?
Do, 11/18/2010 - 16:53
#40
@Zafirbel
Hey Zafirbel
They only reason I see to keep playing, is to talk
This game has become a chat room to me basically
I also see now
The only thing keeping people playing is recipes
Looking for materials to create it, not finding it for a long time, and when you do you don't have the energy to craft it
This process takes days, then add one to the end for the time waiting to actually craft, then you find out, theres something better
I don't like this at all
Crafting is cool, but it shouldn't cost energy
And equipment slots/trinkets are going over the edge for energy uses
This also limits gameplay, and makes another excuse to make money
I know its a preview, but GAWD, It just makes you guys look greedy
Make Crafting require no energy, that would make me happy
Then I could actually craft something, and be able to use my energy for fun stuff, like playing, even though its too expensive for the elevator anyways
Do, 11/18/2010 - 21:47
#41
Hey Zaf!
Haven't seen u since that one time :(
neways, top of the list to do the the devs i guess is figuring out how the players can play all they long if they want, and not limit what we can do. most other games have figured out their own ways of making money off of games, such as selling the players items that can only be bought from a "cash shop" (2x equip chance, maybe?).
point is, make the game playable, not limiting how long we want to play (by playing, including running gates) and of course how we want to play it. Energy should be used as a second currency, not a limiting factor as it is now.
Totem Trouble is Unintuitive. Stopped me from getting to Emberlight two days in a row. I really dislike the segregation of players that you touched on. I've only been playing for a handful of days by the way (Y!PP player for over 5 years.. :p)