Magnus versus Autogun
Vie, 01/02/2015 - 19:48
Again, comparing the Magnus to another gun. Last time it was the Antigua, now the Autogun.
+1 for Magnus!
Vie, 01/02/2015 - 20:38
#2
the big question
For me, the big question is whether the weird new Magnus knockback is intentional or not. It seems like a crazy bug, but you can imagine a designer saying, "This charge is a little too powerful now. Hmm. What if we tweak the knockback like so? Then, if the user wants to do huge damage, he at least has to look the enemy in the eye first."
Vie, 01/02/2015 - 21:05
#3
Erm, wut?
@Bopp: The evidence leans heavily toward Magnus knockback being intentional. It wasn't there before, and now it is. The charge shot pushes enemies along its path. That has to be specifically coded. It's too well-designed to be a bug.
Magnus and Autogun really have very few overlapping roles. Magnus is primarily useful on slow crowds of moveable (i.e. not gun puppies or Vana) enemies. Autogun is primarily useful on either fast, dodgy enemies (wolves & fiends) or relatively non-moving ones like Vanaduke. I can hit devilites with a Blitz Needle, but not with a Callahan. I can murder whole crowds of lumbers and slimes with just a couple (literally 2 or 3) well-placed Iron Slug charges, but I dare a Grim Repeater wielder to do the same. A Grim Repeater or Volcanic Pepperbox would deal far more damage to gun puppies than an Iron Slug would. Callahans are terrible against Vanaduke.
Both will destroy gremlins pretty well. Both deal massive one-shot damage (though Magnuses deal less to those that can't move). Both are great fun to charge at crowds with.
Get both.
Vie, 01/02/2015 - 22:44
#4
hmm....
I value weapons heavily in party manner, magnus is just more difficult to execute when not all monsters wants to eye contact with you. The challenge about crowds of lumbers and slimes with autogun, I'll probably try to make them stack and target in between like this. Also, most autogun (except pepperbox) has no knockback that function perfectly as support damage without interrupting your party members attacking at the same monster.
Vie, 01/02/2015 - 23:30
#5
both are good
The Magnus charge can be used as a utility as well, capable of drawing enemies off of spikes when shot from behind, and dealing wonderfully defensive status.
Autoguns are mainly offensive with 3 having a bit of defense sprinkled in. Plague deals that debuffing poison and the Pepperbox and Chaingun deal a nice widespread knockback.
Sáb, 01/03/2015 - 07:13
#6
Thinslayer
Thinslayer, thanks for your comments. The most convincing evidence is that no knockback of this kind existed before the gunner update. Perhaps that's what you meant by "It wasn't there before, and now it is."?
On the other hand, it could still be an error. The calculation involves a few vectors, including knight facing direction K and monster facing direction M. Instead of knocking back along -K, maybe the code knocks back along -M. Such a typo would account for the entire behavior.
But such an error should be easy to catch. So I do tend to agree with you. On the other hand, the party joining bug should also be easy to catch...
Sáb, 01/03/2015 - 19:50
#7
@Bopp
Yep, that's pretty much what I meant.
But now that you mention it, I have noticed that its knockback direction seems a bit strange. I'd have to study it to properly see what you mean.
Dom, 01/04/2015 - 05:09
#8
It's quite simple: Magnus charges knock enemies backwards in relation wherever they're looking. If they're look straight at you, it'll be like normal, but if say, they're facing your teammate and is straight between you and said teammate, you're shooting the monster's back and it will go straight towards you, kinda like the old VPB.
Dom, 01/04/2015 - 07:56
#9
right
Agreed. And now I need to issue two corrections:
1. I meant to say K, not -K. Combuster-style knockback is in the knight's facing direction, not opposite it.
2. There is at least one more kind of knockback, for example on Nitronome and Polaris. The knockback direction is away from the blast.
Lun, 01/05/2015 - 03:26
#10
Right, strange but simple: the Magnus knocks monsters back- their back. I for one can imagine it being intentional, because it's such a silly pun on "knockback," but I can also imagine it being unintentional. The game is both whimsical and buggy.
I hope it was intentional, because it's delightfully zany. If it is a bug, though, we might have a long time enjoy it before it's fixed, as with Autogun knockback. Since shortly after Autoguns were "fixed," I've joked that it must have been a typo where the value for knockback was the additive inverse of whatever it was supposed to be set to.
Before the big update, the farther-reaching Needle Autoguns felt to me like they had the same projectile lifespan and produced a spread of same width as the shorter-ranged Autoguns. It suggests to me that the spread was created by giving projectiles a randomised cluster of velocity vectors perpendicular to direction of aim, the same for both guns, applied independently of the velocity vector in aim direction. If so, it strikes me as interesting because the developer can most easily adjust the spread in terms of width of the pattern independent of range at which that pattern is produced, rather than angular width.
Back on-topic, this is an interesting pair of weapons to compare because it's a question relevant to most gun-heavy players building their initial arsenals. Both are available in Normal, Pierce and Shadow, though Iron Slug doesn't fork from the Pierce path until the last upgrade. I'm using Mega Tundrus and Fiery Pepperbox together quite often just because I find it a charming pair, but I think for most people the Chaingun is the stronger Shadow option and the Iron Slug the stronger Normal option. > <
I think I kinda lean toward Autogun for gun specialists since it more strongly contrasts with other guns in capability, and Magnus for peops who expect to seldom equip two guns at once since in a lot of ways it's kinda in between Autos and Alchs- can't decide? Take the middle road.
Autogun, no contest. I'll consider again when magnus knockback follows the bullets path instead of monster's facing direction.