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Normal Damage :l

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mer, 02/27/2013 - 12:20
Portrait de Tin-Foil-Hat
Tin-Foil-Hat

Any chance well see buffs to normal damage weapons to be competitive with other types ?

The reason why im asking is because i was just doing Legion of Almire and i specifically crafted a Cold Iron Vanquisher to deal with undead. This was my first time testing it, I was lucky and got a UV on it upon craft soo its damage vs undead is very high, i was expecting some decent damage on undead from this weapon. After trying it, it seemed like it wasnt doing much at all, about 170 or soo damage on swings vs undead, 300+ on charge. I was also carrying my Warhammer, it was doing far more damage with pure elemental, something like 200+ per normal swing and 500+ on charge attacks.

This made me realize, why do normal damage weapons even exist if theyre far less effective than pure or split damage ? Are there any plans on increasing these to be on par with others ?

Seems like im continually crafting the wrong items and its getting irritating because its clear that they seemingly arent even paying attention to the balance between the types of weapons/armors given :l

It really makes me feel like im wasting my materials and the past few days i feel like i continually regret crafting said items.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 12:26
#1
Portrait de Tabby-Catbat-Forum
Tabby-Catbat-Forum
No. Normal Sucks Normal is

No. Normal Sucks

Normal is supposed to be weaker than elemental against undead but more on par with elemental on devilites and slimes. the specailized damage is meant to be "super effective" while normal weapons are supposed to be regular effective. basically worse than having 3 specialized weapons..

mer, 02/27/2013 - 12:48
#2
Portrait de Raisinfist
Raisinfist
What Tabby said.

It's mediocre, but it's mediocre against everything. If there's ever a level with every single type of monster in equal proportions, then Normal will rule for people who do not have weapon slots - it's the poor man's weapon.
If you have weapon slots, then Normal damage is useless.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 13:02
#3
Portrait de Little-Juances
Little-Juances

If anything I'd let special damage be less effective against neutral enemies.
But no major buffs to normal weapon (some cases do need a few tweaks here and there)

mer, 02/27/2013 - 13:07
#4
Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy

It was your first time bringing the blade, so it's presumably level 1. The difference between a level 1 weapon and a level 10 one is quite a lot in terms of damage. I imagine the level 10 blade should be doing well over 200 per hit on undead. That's what the wiki tells me, at least, comparing to the areas where WRH would be doing 500 on the charge attack.

Let's pick out some damage numbers from WRH, actually. At the beginning of stratum 6, they look like so:
322 on effective, 241 on neutral, 49 on resistant.

Meanwhile, here's CIV:
213 on undeads, 177 on everything else.

Normal damage has little to do with it. CIV just has weaker hits than WRH because WRH is a heavy sword. Let's make-believe WRH to have identical neutral damage to CIV, using the same ratios:
236 on weak, 177 on neutral, 36 on resistant.

As you can see, our fake-WRH would be a bit stronger than actual-CIV on undead, but it would also be (and even currently is) a whole lot weaker against beasts and gremlins.

It's a choice. OOO wants you to spent thousands of CE on crafting weapons geared for each enemy type, but you could simply go for one set of normal damage weapons and never have to worry about it again. I certainly can't think of anything I wouldn't be able to do with Triglav / Pepperbox / Nitronome. It may kill things a teensy-tinesy amount slower than Divine / Alchemer / DCB // Faust / Umbra / DR // Flourish / Blitz / DBB, but I would only have spent 30% of the CE of that guy, so he deserves being 30% more effective than me at all times, I think.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 13:20
#5
Portrait de Tin-Foil-Hat
Tin-Foil-Hat
Most people have multiple

Most people have multiple weapon slots, which brings up the "This is Mandatory" problem. If you can carry multiple special weapons it makes having a normal weapon obsolete. If its obsolete why is it in the game, and why isnt it being rebalanced ? Problem is Cold Iron Vanquisher, which it is a Normal damage weapon, is also a special weapon due to its general UV made for the sole purpose of fighting undead monsters. It doesnt live up to split/pure vs undead which is a problem.

Its like the Cautery Sword and Nightblade, Cautery swords sole purpose is to kill slime based monsters, but its terrible in comparison to the Nightblade. While the Cautery Sword doesnt upgrade to a 5* weapon, its not as big of an issue, where the Cold Iron Vanquisher is an end game 5* weapon which doesnt live up to its purpose.

No levels as far as im aware have every single type of monster in it so technically speaking normal damage is useless even without 3-4 weapon slots. As far as i know, you only need 2 separate weapons to be successful in terms of overpowering levels, sometimes not even that.

Royal Jelly Palace can be done with a single shadow weapon, ive soloed it with my nightblade easily. Same goes for operation crimson hammer, as long as you have one shadow based weapon, there isnt a need for any others. Ive yet to get to Vana yet, when i tried it i was 3* and got destroyed, but from the pre-levels it was all undead and trojans for the most part which goes to prove that point again, levels only have a few specific monsters, never all kinds which is why Normal damage in my opinion isnt even mediocre. If anything id say that normal damage feels a bit outdated.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 13:25
#6
Portrait de Tin-Foil-Hat
Tin-Foil-Hat
@ Zeddy - Yes, it was my

@ Zeddy - Yes, it was my first time bringing it but ive been leveling it carrying it as a sidearm. Its level 8-9 if i remember right, not max but up there.

I know its kind of a poor comparison but it seems elemental blows it out of the water either way, looking at level 10 on the charts for Branish line weapons, they still blow it out of the water. Sorry for the comparison between a heavy weapon, thats my bad but i dont have a brandish line weapon yet.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 14:04
#7
Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy

There is the Arcade still, where one may encounter danger rooms. You never know what you face in those things until you get there. So while there is no level where every family is present (outside of The Gauntlet), areas where any family can be present is everywhere.

But I'll concur that you don't really want normal weapons if all you wanna do is farm predetermined missions.

Now, if we're talking about normal weapons in Lockdown, on the other hand...

mer, 02/27/2013 - 14:15
#8
Portrait de Tin-Foil-Hat
Tin-Foil-Hat
@ Zeddy i agree, and i was

@ Zeddy i agree, and i was just about to bring up the PvP aspect of it.

Read through it and its also about normal in general, Venomous points out what im also talking about, superority over lines and counterparts/alternatives. I mean just a general glance at the wiki charts for weapons and armors show a great deal of the imbalance. Hopefully OOO is going to do something about it, soon.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 15:23
#9
Portrait de Terra-Necro
Terra-Necro
Not really likely. Normal

Not really likely. Normal damage weapons were never meant to deal more damage on a monster than a weapon that is effective against said monster. I don't think OOO would chance it since there aren't too many complaints.

Elemental is an undead's weakness, so the difference in damage values should be very noticable, even with the uv on your CIV.

I don't believe all normal weapons are useless though. Valiance takes the cake as being one of the most useful guns. I actually use the gun coupled with my combustor in undead and devilite levels.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 16:01
#10
Portrait de Bopp
Bopp
if only

If only there were some kind of guide, with a detailed analysis of swords by damage type. Then people could choose the right swords of the right damage types, and avoid the weaker swords, which might possibly include all of the normal swords. Well, we can dream.

Normal weapons are for people who don't coordinate multiple damage types. For example, a knight plays with one sword and one gun, and wants the flexibility of using either one on any monster. Or maybe the knight owns only one sword and one gun, and doesn't plan to buy more, because all of his profits are being funneled to an alt. Or maybe the player is just ignorant. Or maybe he's focused on Vanaduke's mask.

For what it's worth, non-normal damage types have much larger resistance penalties than vulnerability bonuses. If there weren't this asymmetry, then normal weapons would be even less attractive. In other words, the asymmetry is a step toward making normal weapons competitive with non-normal ones.

In the end, Three Rings wants us to craft a lot of specialized equipment, because this drives CE sales and hence company revenue. I don't think you'll ever see truly strong normal weapons. That would make the game less financially viable, and less interesting.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 16:10
#11
Portrait de Tin-Foil-Hat
Tin-Foil-Hat
@ Terra-Necro Theres no

@ Terra-Necro

Theres no complaints probably because no ones using them because they know pure/split are superior :P Honestly i hardly ever seen anyone besides myself using normal damage weapons. Probably would be interesting to see a graph of equipped weapons.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 17:32
#12
Portrait de Batabii
Batabii
Yes! Batabii agrees with

Yes! Batabii agrees with Tabby.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 20:12
#13
Portrait de Kitty-Softpaws
Kitty-Softpaws
Volcanic Pepperbox with CTR

Volcanic Pepperbox with CTR Max. It's how you use the weaps, it's not just about sheer power.

mer, 02/27/2013 - 20:35
#14
Senorclean
@kitty completely true but

@kitty
completely true

but the 1 thing i hate is how really useless normal weps are because you have 2 wep slots by default, so i could have lets say, BTB for peeing dmg and glacius for elemental dmg, obviously my weps makes me get super effectives on beast, fiends, undead, and constructs. beast resist elemanetal, but my BTB is what backs up my glacius from being less efficient with beast. slimes resist piercing, but elemental is neutral to slimes, so i do neutral dmg to them, and normal weps are neutral all the way and monsters dont have defense (excluding weakness and thats technically not having defense at all) so its not like LD that every skolver resist piercing and normal, so i say they should really make normal weps do ALOT more dmg due to how useless they are in LD (pure normal and not split normal)

jeu, 02/28/2013 - 04:10
#15
Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy

@Senor

While I would like to ask about peeing damage, I'll merely point out that in your example you have no gun or bomb. There would be no way for you to deal with puppies over chasms, for example, and you're all-around less versatile.

jeu, 02/28/2013 - 04:37
#16
Hariender
lol

"While I would like to ask about peeing damage"

jeu, 02/28/2013 - 09:22
#17
Portrait de Batabii
Batabii
This thread is now about

This thread is now about peeing damage.

Also you should probably see a doctor about that...

jeu, 02/28/2013 - 09:24
#18
Portrait de Fleet-Miss-Gun
Fleet-Miss-Gun
Then we shall abadon the

Then we shall abadon the thread.

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