Spiral Knights - Sandrakers Paradox: A tale of Misrepresented Gear Stats

Sandrakers Paradox: A tale of Misrepresented Gear Stats

26 respuestas [Último envío]

Dom, 08/18/2013 - 23:00

Sandraker

Maybe you guys can help me out here, why would my fire resist be any lower than my poison resist.

http://i.imgur.com/as1oJ8B.png

That image is two armor pieces. You may already know what they are. But here is the jist of my quandary.

Dragon scale mail has poison max and fire max by default.
Black kat cowl has minus fire medium and minus poison medium by default.

Before any UVs were added to these armors, they displayed fire med and poison med in my gear statistics pane. They were equal.
Now I have a poison max UV on one, and fire max UV on the other. They should still be equal.

Why are they not equal.
Pls. This seems like a bug.

*Edited for clarity
*I filed a bug report
*I hope you aren't affected by this, I can only imagine how many people are unknowingly getting duped by this bug.

Dom, 08/18/2013 - 23:07

Paweu

Why do you even ask about the

Why do you even ask about the bars? Go in the clockworks and test the resistances itself, bar display was always known to be imprecise.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 00:09

Clwnbaby

Um its pretty obvious

First off... your explanation is confusing and doesn't describe whats going on.... SO i decided to look at the image and yeah the levels look to be exactly where they should be. I dont see what the problem is or what you're griping about. They should not be equal. U have a lot more poison resist.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 00:34

Father-Frost

1st world SK problems

Give me a reason why it matters or a reason why you have so many UV's quite frankly I care not about your optical glitch.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 00:58

Dust-Dragon

o_o

EDIT: Actually, seems like UV Max! is not equal to the maximum resistance per piece.

At least, as far as bar-measurement goes.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 01:49

Sandraker

max-med+max = max-med+max

@Clwnbaby

I want to help you understand this. This is important.

Here are the stats of the non UVd armors:

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Dragon_Scale_Mail
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Black_Kat_Cowl

Just focus on poison and fire stats.
Both FIRE and POISON resist are the same on both pieces. The total you would end up with, wearing both pieces, is FIRE med and POISON med.
Now, add a FIRE MAX UV and a POISON MAX UV.

THEY SHOULD STILL BE EQUAL.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:01

No-Thanks

sandrakers? tribes?

ur poison res is at 8(4 from gear, 4 from max uv)
ur fire res is at 8 minus negative from cowl(4 from gear, 4 from max fire)

idk how big the negative values are, but im guessing its either 2 or 4 or inbetween or somthing..

o wait cowl has negative poison too

o_o idk

ok i got a guess, maybe the kat cowl has -4 fire -2 poison and the bars r wrong similarly to gran faust speed

just a guess tho

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:20

Sandraker

@Dust-Dragon Here is an image

@Dust-Dragon

Here is an image of a stun max UV on a dragon scale helm.
The default armor resistance is exactly equal to a MAX UV.

http://i.imgur.com/WPxHzSP.png

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:25

Sandraker

@No-Thanks The black kat cowl

@No-Thanks

The black kat cowl has -med fire and -med poison. They are they same, a medium is a medium, regardless of the status type.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:46

Hexzyle

*vague

There have always been visual bugs with absolute zero boost passovers when it comes to multiple pieces of equipment, some more obvious than others.
When in doubt, always follow the individual pieces. The summary is easily bugged.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:47

#10

Bzzts

The probem you might be

The probem you might be facing here is that the max UV only goes to a certain point after the bar which is already arty max, basically giving you reduced effect. This would be unfair to be true however so let's hope the bars are just lying.

Edit :love auto correct >.>

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 02:55

#11

Hexzyle

@Bzzts

False. The visual bars of status resists do not reflect the status's true nature of effectiveness fall-off, and always display the full total of all contributing factors. Additionally, there is no cap for status resistance, theoretically, at least.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 03:02

#12

Bzzts

That's why I said might, to

That's why I said might, to cover any shortcomings of my explanation. . .

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 04:12

#13

Thunder-The-Bright

if I recollect correctly, a +2 affects less than a -2. that means, -2+2=/=0. it's something less. it's true for damage resistances at least.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 04:24

#14

Tantrum-Twix

facepalm -_-

uhmmm., i can't see any problems here., the gear stats, are from both helmet and armor ...

theres nothing wrong in the picture., LOL

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 04:58

#15

Sandraker

A GM would do the following

A GM would do the following to replicate this issue:

1. Equip a black kat cowl and a dragon scale mail
2. Look at their current gear stats, and notice fire and poison are EVEN
3. Apply a poison MAX UV to the black kat cowl, and a fire MAX UV to the dragon scale mail
4 Look at their current gear stats again, and notice the two are now UNEVEN

It's that simple.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 06:16

#16

Hexzyle

@Thunder-The-Bright

if I recollect correctly, a +2 affects less than a -2. that means, -2+2=/=0. it's something less. it's true for damage resistances at least.

No, a +2 and a -2 create 0. However, as I said beforehand, there are visual issues with the summary showing instances where a stat has crossed over the absolute zero boost mark. This affects both status resistances and character abilities: a positive and negative ability equipped at the same time will cause discrepancies in the summary, the most obvious ones occurring with MSI, universal ASI, and Fiend bonuses, from the Mercurial, Plate, and Angelic lines respectively.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 07:05

#17

Exerpa

If I mix: Fire high Seerus +

If I mix: Fire high Seerus + Shock high sprite perk = both bars are equal
Shock high Seerus + Fire high perk = again, equal

Fire high Seerus + Shock high Justifier jacket = Shock bar is longer.

I'm pretty sure its just a buggy display, but in the case of the OP's picture where it should have 6 units of fire and poison try combining it with your sprite perks, assuming you have them yet. See what happens when you walk through oil fires in C42 or walk into fire wisps.

Edit: If I mix Fire high Seerus + Poison Max Armor of the Fallen + Poison high sprite perk = Fire and Poison immunity in C42, aka +11 Fire, +9 Poison.
Without the sprite perk, the poison bar is only slightly longer than the shock bar, exactly like the fire+freeze bars in OP's picture.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 09:58

#18

Vesperaldus

Without testing anything...

Without testing anything... maybe the Fire is desplayed correctly and the Poison is displayed too high?

Also, for those of you who think its displayed properly, pretend both UVs in question were on the Black Kat Cowl. The Status resist would be equal on the helm. Both Statuses have the same amont of resist and negatve resist. Before AND after the UVs are added. The fact that the UVs are on seperate pieces of gear should be negligable.

EDIT: Addendum - I swear, most of you forum goers lack the intelligence to grasp anything that isn't "simple." Go do some logic puzzles or something like Sodoku.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 10:12

#19

Zeddy

I've had similar bugs to this, and it doesn't just affect status sumaries. Try wearing a piece of Fallen and something that gives low/medium bonus damage. You'll end up a red bar saying you've got low versus fiends or something.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 10:15

#20

Theirillusion

I'm not gonna read all answers...

Status unique variants on gear that already has that status is not as effective.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 10:44

#21

Sandraker

For a subject as simple as

For a subject as simple as the understanding of this:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Unique_variant
There sure are a lot of varied responses in this thread as to the interpretation of how it works. I'm not saying you are all wrong, I'm sure one of you is right, but without some sort of official clarification how am I supposed to know if the gear stat pane is right, and a MAX UV is essentially cut down to a medium, Or that the UV still counts during play and it is just a graphical glitch.

If it were the former, my argument would then be, why apply UVS at all, if they do not add their full effect to your knight.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 11:29

#22

Juances

Graphs have a limit, they have to fit in the screen. If all positive values are calculated firs and then the negative substract from that total without considering the overflown bars....

I'm trying too hard.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 13:24

#23

Klipik-Forum

Bars cause too many problems.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 17:39

#24

Sandraker

@juances Even if the UI cant

@juances

Even if the UI cant handle overflow, how would I know im even getting the full resistance? I can only base what I know from the bars, and they are telling me I'm not getting it.

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 19:05

#25

Noogard

FIIIIIIAAAHHH

Then go light yourself on fire and test for yourself like countless others have done? Maybe some of the UVs are broken. I know enough damn trinkets are broken. As of my testing some time ago, I found the fire trinket is yet again broken as I believe it was working before but luckily the sprite perk works so I was able to avoid fire at C42...

Lun, 08/19/2013 - 20:47

#26

Jaroche

Yes I have seen this bug with

Yes I have seen this bug with Fire resistance UV. A Max Fire Vog Cub didn't show like a double max fire in the player stats, it showed like max + med/high, but it worked fine.

Buscar

Sandrakers Paradox: A tale of Misrepresented Gear Stats