Because it punishes me for being skillfull with it. 2/3s of the time it does literally nothing when I hit devilites with charge shots, and it makes me stand still when I have to fire said charge shots.
OOO hates me, and it feels GOOD.
Neutralizer is my new favorite weapon
Mon, 02/03/2014 - 14:09
Mon, 02/03/2014 - 19:56
#2
I love my Bio for the same reason.
Mon, 02/03/2014 - 22:13
#3
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
If someone hates you, it means they're paying attention
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 00:02
#4
Devilites/Wolvers/Gremlins
Devilites/Wolvers/Gremlins dodge bullets and gunfire because it seems threatening, and they can see it coming miles away. Super fast bullets hit them (ideally) before they can dodge, but will still make them dodge if it doesn't hit.
Super slow bullets should register as "non-threatening" and not cause the above families to dodge/teleport.
It would be fun if catalyzer bullets/charges bounced off walls and enemies like alchemers. In fact it would be even more fun if those bullets had alchemer bullet speed.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 05:30
#5
@op
This weapon punishes you for beeing *not* skillful. This is my reason why I love my Biohazard.
Also it grants much fun if you play in a whole catalyzer party - you should try it ;)
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 05:39
#6
I have no mouth and I need to scream
Blazz recommends two valiance shots and one sprinkle of callahan when cooking devilites.
Blazz also suggest cyro/storm driver shots. But not too much otherwise it will ruin the dish completely.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 09:24
#7
I've had Biohazard and
I've had Biohazard and Neutralizer almost as soon as they came out and have still not come across a 4-man 5* catalyzer party. =_=
The slow bullets forcing enemies to dodge has actually made soloing things (...for example, two of my no-spark Grinchlin Assault solos were done with Biohazard as my main gun) a lot safer for me, as long as I avoid standing still to release charge.
@Fehzor
What you're describing sounds like latency issues - bullets disappearing but doing no damage on a moving enemy --> client lying to you and telling you the bullet hit when it actually missed on the server. You usually have to 'miss' ahead of them (leadshoot) to make your attacks really hit. Most people don't experience this because either their attacks are quick (swords with instant sweeping hitboxes or every gun except pulsar/catalyzer) or their enemies are slow, but you'll definitely see them on things that move quickly like Strikers (LD), Gremlin/Devilite dashes, Howlitzer heads, rockets, and those annoying jumpy fiend things that show up in compounds.
Vortex solves the issue though :3
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 09:34
#8
oh i know
Neutralizer is my only ranged bomb besides Supernova. Gotta love how devilite dodge negates them like knight dash negates turret projectiles :D
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 09:42
#9
@Tenkii
I still want to try a Neutralizer FSC run with you sometime.
I love me some pewpewpews.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 12:17
#10
@Blazz
But that would kill them without having to get around invincibility frames, and just doesn't give me that masochistic thrill.
@Tenkii
I don't have latency issues beyond the norm, and I am aiming ahead of them and during their mid dodge. I know that it hits because the bullets disappear and trigger the "I've hit something" sequence of showing me that they've hit something and don't tag things behind the devilite. Further, I'm talking about both the normal devilites and the pit bosses/yessmen. Yes, the pit bosses sometimes magically absorb bullets.
The issue is that devilites have a large number of invincibility frames when they're dodging about, and even if I hit them at exactly the right time, there is a decent chance that I will be off a millisecond and the charge won't connect properly.
@Jenovas
Indeed. It punishes you for being not skillful, but it also punishes you for landing shots correctly.
Therefor, it is a well designed weapon.
@Panda
See, the problem with Neutralizer/Biohazard in groups of other Neutralizers/Biohazards is that for it to be an improvement over everyone just using their neut/biohazard seperately, it requires an extremely high amount of cooperation, practice and understanding of the weapon's mechanics.
If I deal 240 damage to slimes on the charge and 100 damage to slimes on the normal shots, and slimes have ~400 health, then optimally I will use one charge and 2 normal shots, as I'll deal 240 + 100 on the charge and then I'll need only the damage from one shot left.
If my team mate then charge shots the enemy that I'm about to finish off, the extra damage will be wasted.
To truly min-max it correctly, we'd have to all target seperate entities and then make up for our failures on the fly. But people don't understand that, they think that we should do all kinds of things to min max it because it seems more logical to tag the enemies twice or three times and then push them into a group, which requires time. Time = DPS, which means that such a strategy won't get us very far because there is a high chance that we'll mess it up with our derpy slow shots.
So no, I don't think that the whole 4 people use biohazard = greatest thing actually works well in practice.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 12:28
#11
Let's clean up some confusion.
Pit bosses (like battlepods) absorb the charge shot, causing no damage or orb.
Devilites/Yesmen do not "invincitink" the damage.
Devilites might have a tiny chance to "dodge" the explosion. [Refer to below for how it is plausible]
Yesmen do NOT ignore/dodge/whatever this damage.
The only way for a devilite to dodge the damage requires a bit of knowledge of how the catalyzer line works:
Charge shots create a rotating orb around the monster when hit.
Rotating orbs explode when the monster is hit.
*The orb damage is delt centered at the current position of the orb, NOT the monster.*
*The orb explosion range is approximately 2 squares.*
*The orb rotates approximately 1 square away from the center of the monster.*
I have not been able to reproduce the following scenario but there may be a chance in which the devilite is hit and ends up 2 squares away from where orb currently was. I would be very interested in seeing a video of anyone reproducing this phenomena (devilite with charge orb getting hit and having the resulting explosion miss). I somewhat doubt it is possible, but depends on if the devilite can move more than 1 square in the time a hit registers and the explosion occurs.
What the OP most likely is experiencing is latency problems. Due to the high travel speed of a devilite during its "dash", latency is a BIG issue with having client graphics disagree with the server. The same thing goes for the hammer dash and kat movement. Server is all that really matters with "hit" or "miss".
It would be most helpful to resolve the issues you are having if you were to post a video, OP.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:51
#12
Devilites absorb bullets when they do their leap/strafing maneuvers, even when the bullets hit them at the end, because it takes a couple of milliseconds for the strafing invincibility to wear off.
It is impossible (at least I've never seen it) for a devilite to dodge an explosion.. unless the explosion is in a wall.
Oh.. and by devilites I mean overtimers. The normal devilites glitch too, but far less often.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:53
#13
And that's what you get for being different, missy.
Tue, 02/04/2014 - 18:25
#14
Devilites absorb bullets when they do their leap/strafing maneuvers, even when the bullets hit them at the end, because it takes a couple of milliseconds for the strafing invincibility to wear off.
In the many times I've bombed them, I have never had any become invincible while strafing.
Have I seen some "dash" through bullets I've fired making it look like I've hit them? Plenty of times. Have I had alchemer shots animate to both go through the devilite and rebound off? Yep.
It is easiest to disprove your comment with a blitz needle. In fact, here is a video of the blitz hitting a devilite mid-dash [approximately time=7m27s]. There is no invincibility. It does visually look like in the double dash through the blitz charge, more than just 1 bullet hits, BUT there is no invincitink. My conclusion is that they move fast - fast enough to make it look like the client has difficulty to keep up with the server, but there is no invincibility during strafing.
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 12:54
#15
I don't care if its latency. I hit them. The bullet connects. I see the bullet connect. Nothing happens. Therefore, the devilites have an invincibility period. All I have to do to win this argument is spell your name wrong. Maybe it is caused by latency, but I have a decent connection so that means that at least many people will have this thing happening, therefore devilites getting invincibility is a feature.
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:56
#16
derp
I thought I had posted this in response before, but:
Here's a 1v1 match I had in Lockdown. You can see my client lying to me telling me that my bullets hit (the 'hit' graphic shows, and the bullet stops flying) when he's just cloaked, but it doesn't ever actually count until the damage actually is dealt. I recognized this meant that my shots probably barely missed behind him according to the server, so in response, I'd adjust my shots to be a little further ahead and then they would register and deal damage.
I could say I see the bullet connect. Nothing happens. Therefore Recon is invincible when it's cloaked but there's evidence of the contrary, disproving that claim. Similarly, Skepticraven's last link shows bullets in front of a devilite mid-dodge (equivalent of a leadshot, with 2 bar latency on top of that) and the devilite dies mid-dodge. He's also used a non-projectile example of bombs that just cover the area.
It really sounds like common latency issues when dealing with non-slow targets.
If you'd like to provide proof or a repeatable test that can put our claims (latency issue, you're not leadshooting enough) to question, then go for it - I'd be more than glad to be factually proven wrong and correct my own ideas. If you're just going to discard it just to disagree, then there's no point trying to talk over this and you can continue on with your own complaints and enjoy the attention.
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:50
#17
@Fehzor
By that logic, you just proved that devilites can injure themselves without being cursed.
I stepped into this thread because I didn't want misinformation spreading around (and an actual interest to see if anyone had proof of devilites being invincible). I can't fix the logic of people that believe faulty logic*. My work here is done. /wave
*Clarification : No intention of insults. We simply don't see eye-to-eye that it is the server that matters and not what the client shows happened.
Good to know that you like being hated on?