*edit* After testing move speed it seems there is no increased speed when charging, even though it really looks like there is. They simply removed the move speed decrease on gun charges.

Also autoguns are pretty good in LD now. Not overly powerful but useable unlike before.

Catalyser guns still don't do explosion damage in Lockdown, but now they're even more useless because of the new changes.

Preliminary wall-charge testing: Antigua line

These guns work reliably:
Proto duelist
Chilling Duelist
Antigua
Silversix
Sentenza
Obsidian Carbine

These guns are very unreliable around walls:
Argent Peacemaker
Gilded Griffin
Raptor
Blackhawk

What makes them unreliable? The final strong shot of the charge attack only travels when fired close to right angles from the wall that you have your back up against. While it seems the projectile is indeed being spawned in front of the player now, the projectile is too big to tolerate any variance from 90 degrees. Notice that all the guns in the reliable list can have their charged shot travel along the length of the wall - presumably they must have a smaller projectile.

Recommended (quick) fix - make all Antigua guns share the smaller sized charge shot.

Preliminary wall-charge testing: Blaster, Pulsar

Because theres so many of them it would take time to verify everything but casual observations so far suggest the charge is fairly reliable up to about 20-30 degrees from the walls. As these 2 guns have a big fat charge shot not much can be done about that, but getting about 120-140 extra degrees (up from 0) is still quite an improvement.

4* and below blasters have new hit sounds?

I'm not sure how I feel yet about the increase in animation/combo times that you gave the guns. I'm feeling that it is a positive; the movement speed while firing buff makes the "sluggishness" that it feels with the animation completely acceptable, and you can mitigate the slow gun-lowering animation by shield canceling. This is very balanced in pvp - in the main server I can almost switch-shoot spam an alchemer and a blaster with asi med total without much concern for shielding. This is great, but perhaps unbalanced in the main lockdown game.

Damage nerf to pulsar was great.

Catalyzer Line: Just as I feared, they made this gun worthless. The basic shot deals literally 1 damage per hit, and the explosions do no damage. If you paid for an ASI Catalyzer, you basically screwed yourself over. The only practical use for this is tracking Recons, or having fun little ‘COLLECT BLUE SPHERES’ matches. This gun is easily countered by… Everything. This gun is most effective for… Well. Throwing the game.

Blaster Line: Incredibly effective, and the charge is much less punishing to use. The vanilla gun, now in a variety of flavors. The higher mobility makes for harder to hit gunners, and that spells disaster for bombers and swordsmen alike. This gun is mostly skill reliant. Countering and making effective use of this is different from player to player. Arguably benefits the most from Auto Target.

Antigua Line: The charge is still an incredibly situational troll-tool, but the mobility makes this gun much safer to use. Effective for poking bombers and interrupting strikers from afar, yet the damage is nothing to sneeze at. This gun is easily countered by getting in the user’s face and smacking them with heavy damage or crippling statuses. This gun is most effective at interrupting Striker boost and chunking down bombers attempting to charge a bomb.

Autogun Line: Surprisingly effective. To my experience, I found myself gripping on 1% health after eating a Grim Repeater charge to the face wearing a Shadow resistant set (with Shadow MAX uv’s) and two Tri-heart trinkets while playing Recon. If I was wearing no Trinkets and in Chaos, that would mean I would be dead. This gun is countered by moving in erratic and unpredictable patterns. Dodging a charge leaves its user defenseless for a second or two, so make the most of it. This gun is most effective at chunking down players who rely on charge attacks. The basic attack is also very good for poking your enemy from a very safe distance. Definitely worth it. If your opponent is a bomber, they are guaranteed to die to these suckers.

Pulsar Line:Nothing much has changed, but what did change is for the better. The Area of Effect explosion has been nerfed significantly, and the damage as well. Pulsars are now more useful for their (unreliant) knockback, and the occasional status proc. This makes Wildfire a reliable choice against Chaos clones as they slowly burn to a crisp. It’s incredibly spammable, but also easily countered by Antiguas and Blasters. This gun is most effective with ASI boosts and fired off as a kiting tool rather than a heavy DPS tool. Plan your shots accordingly to make the most of this. Otherwise, you can just get the rest of your guild to spam these with you to really turn some heads. But you wouldn’t do that, right? Spam isn’t healthy, so use it sparingly.

Magnus Line: What was once an incredibly niche and horribly underused gun is going to see much more play. Its hitbox is a tad wonky, but the range is respectable for the damage these suckers can dish out. The charge has tons of kill potential, especially the Winter Grave. It’s an AoE nuke that can either Freeze or Stun Multiple targets upon detonation. It lacks the piercing effect that it does for PvE, but it’s easily forgivable given how good this line has become. Proc a Freeze with Winter Grave, and your target is already dead. Better start rolling Freeze UV’s on your Snarby and Skolver, you’re going to need Moderate Freeze immunity to be spared the agony of being executed by the chilling bite of a Winter’s Grave. You can counter the Magnus line by being mobile, by outranging the player with other guns, and by learning to dodge out of the way of the charge. This gun is most effective when you have CTR and have the camera angle advantage, firing off to your foes from the South.

Alchemer Line: If you mess up your Alchemer switches, you will definitely feel the punishment even more. Otherwise, this line is virtually unchanged. Easily countered by more precise guns, like Blasters, and also countered by sets immune to Moderate status. Most effective when utilizing the advanced technique, switch-shooting. Especially effective when chaining together statuses with Hail and Storm Driver. Requires the user to learn how to lead shots, by judging their latency and the latency of other players.

"Good at aiming" isn't really something to be rewarded when the game has autoaim

And that's why gunners stop and go every second in lockdown. ^

Gotta get dat AT lock doe.

Yes I think bullet speed has made the spam problem worse. The damage nerf is largely irrelevant in LD because the main problems with it are too many bullets, knockback and good chance for getting shocked/frozen etc. The damage nerf merely hinders it's use in PvE if anything.

As for catalyzers, they are currently non-usable. The mechanics need overhauling. Look at the shock rifle in Unreal Tournament as an example of a similar weapon.

My thoughts on how the catalyzers should work:

1: normal attack is the same as it is currently in testing. sticky bombs. (they need their damage increasing by 100% though. Very weak currently)

2: The sticky bombs can only be triggered by the cata's Charge attack.

3: the cata charge attack is now a laser. Instant bullet speed and high range, not a slow orb that makes the payoff too hard to be worthwhile.

4: the charge attack does no damage, BUT, it does have 100% chance to shock for a split second. The shock does typical shock damage but only triggers once. This Shock triggers the catalysis of the sticky bombs (science! haha!) and the explosion.

This change would make catalyzers usable in LD (shock would temporarily disable Iframes) and would make triggering the explosions much quicker and more satisfying.

While the changes made to Catalyzer definitely make it better for PVE, it's just disgraceful to see how useless this gun is, and how the Gunner update is pushing it further to obscurity.

On the live server, before the gunner update, the behavior for Catalyzers basic shots are perfectly fine in regards to PVP. It's an effective kiting tool, deals respectable damage on hit. Basic attacks do not apply orbital stacks. The charge attack is bugged in that orbital stacks deal no damage regardless of whether invincibility frames are inactive or active.

For the gunner update, Catalyzer basic shots are disgustingly worthless. Given the majority of Striker players, who is going to make a loadout with a Catalyzer for the sole purpose of keeping track of Recons? On paper, it may seem to make sense to swap the live server Catalyzer's behavior. But in execution, this behavior swap is poor.

In order to make Catalyzers a viable choice for PVP play, revert the Gunner Update behavior, and find some way to fix the orbital explosions bug. Alienating your players for picking one weapon over another is just poor design. Yes, there are other imbalances in the arsenal, but since the focus of this testing phase is handguns for PVP, Catalyzer desperately needs to have its behavior changed back.

After reading through these comments, I'm going to make a suggestion to how the catalyzers should work:
Make the charges detonated upon any charge attack.

What I loved about the phase 1 catalyzer change was the fact that I could lay down charges and then shield bash a crowd, causing a massive explosion. Instead of being a universal support gun, it appears to have returned to its niche state, where players with swords will simply out-damage the catalyzer's target before they can detonate the charges.
I would like to see this gun reverted to its phase 1 change. Even if this shots cannot break blocks anymore, we can manage. Heck, if there could be a check that detected if the shot that hit the target dealt more than X damage point then let's have anything that deals more than 2 damage activate the charge orbital.

I personally view catalyzers being used as a sort of debuff to groups of enemies, be it lockdown or the clockworks. If they group together, then the explosion will be more dangerous.

Guns need to be mostly Minor status with few Moderate status exceptions, especially with their regular attacks. Increasing gun mobility/spammability only makes status more overpowered in PVP environment. It's quite expensive as it is to get Minor status immunity on armors, and nigh impossible to get a solid range of moderate status immunities.

Either nerf status strength/chances on guns across the board, or buff armors to have more natural status resistances.

I can hardly give any detailed feedback, as most of what I did was already done on the first testing round topic. Also I can very much agree with everyone's arguments in this topic.

I'll keep it at the guns which I feel need more tweaking.
Here we go!

Antigua
Works fine in PvP, if only gunners/bombers attend the match. The constant attack-cancel you can cause with it is great, however.

Catalyzer
It has a strong charge, but it's not enough. The whole idea of bullets being explode-able by the charge alone is very annoying, because it's slow. My idea is to make the charge become like a homing bullet, in the style of a tier 2 rocket puppy. The more bullets attached to the player/monster, the more the charge starts homing towards them.

Pulsar
Well, it is such a hard gun to give an opinion about. It's like they work different compared to PvE and PvP.
In PvE, this gun is good. In PvP it's too good. But I can't hate it. I am all with the idea from Shidara to decrease the clip-size to 2.

A possible solution to the Neutralizer problem would be a six-bullet clip with increased orb explosion damage.

Using it with many monsters onscreen is just too frustrating, specially with the need to reload every three shots. A six-shot gun makes it easier to strike lots of orbs in one monster (and not one or two orbs in lots of monsters).

Also, as Shidara said, Guilded Griffin is the Magnum Opus against bombers. May as well make a piercing defence bomber armor?

A lot of reasonable things have been said.
But not enough about knights animation when use charged attack with magnus. Current animation brings a lot of fun in gameplay. Magnus line will be sad without drop'on'buns feature.

ps. Ewbte uses Iron Slug since forever