15% New Gear Items is Still Too Low - Uninstall This Game
mer, 08/19/2015 - 14:53
When you walk into a casino, you know what to expect. Bright lights, happy pictures, all the advertisement to lighten to the mood.
And just like a casino, Spiral Knight manages to play all the same cards: every two weeks it's "THE NEXT NEW THING". That's the name of the game, and for the past 4 promos it should be clear now. Recolors is all they have to do to sell the game now. All that money you spend goes into devs slaving in silence to make new content that gets put into 15% prize box walls that only favor the lucky, and not the many. "But Paintool it supports the game Dev's gotta make money somehow!" If that's what you think, then you cast moral reason aside for business and the only new updates to the wind.
Need I remind this same incidence occurred just only a year ago with the promo that introduced the Mixmaster. A totally new weapon no one had seen or tested before. If you were lucky enough to buy boxes and unbox one, you had unlasting fame and fortune. However there was never enough to go around, and over time you could buy and sell them for around 20KE. That's a profit that sneaks into OOO's pockets easy peasy. IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO THEM TO MAKE NEW GEAR ARTIFICIALLY RARE AT YOUR EXPENSE. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. P2W players could relish in this farce digital content thinking they were better than everyone else because OOO made it artificially rare. This could have been new content that drew players back. It could have been new content like when Apocrea was new. It could come and go like any other event. But they choose not to, because what you want isn't profitable.
And it's been 1 year since, and mixmaster has not returned period. How long do us unfortunate but equally respectful pay to players have to wait to get content we were unlucky enough to miss? How long do we have to wait for the content that's being sold right now to afford an equal chance to play with?
I opened 14 boxes at 50 dollars, and got nothing I wanted; I was a fool to think I'd be lucky. Do they expect me to buy more boxes or energy to get what I want? Don't bet on being lucky. Every dollar wasted in the legal wording "no redeemable cash value - items cannot be replaced - OOO is not responsible" allows them to continue to abuse you.
Show them the power of your money and don't let them waste your time. I spent 8 months resisting buying promos, and I'm further convinced to quit on them until 4500 hours of play time and 584$ means something to somebody. Resist the business advertising and quit the daily grind.
Quit Spiral Knights.
Uninstall the game.
Write a story. Program a new game. Make new art. Exercise. Meet some local friends.
If it's user generated content with an active player base you want with a cute puzzle like element, I leave recommending to you: http://www.transformice.com/index.php
Apparently they have a more active user base than Spiral Knights even, according to Steam.
Feel free to argue with me, and tell me OOO is doing the right thing for the future of this game. Tell me with a straight face you would defend new content as 15% prize box items.
mer, 08/19/2015 - 23:28
#2
this why i love your posts
I opened 14 boxes at 50 dollars, and got nothing I wanted; I was a fool to think I'd be lucky. Do they expect me to buy more boxes or energy to get what I want? Don't bet on being lucky. Every dollar wasted in the legal wording "no redeemable cash value - items cannot be replaced - OOO is not responsible" allows them to continue to abuse you.
Funny thing you mention this, because i tried to buy the item from them (just trying to see if i were lucky), and then i got this answer from many they sent to me:
"I'm sorry for the delay in response. While I understand what you're saying
and your disappointment, but unfortunately this is how the boxes are set up.
What you're buying is not the item, but the chance to acquire it inside a box.
If this isn't how you want to buy something, it may be better for you to just
purchase energy and then buy the items from the auction house. That way you
have full control over what items you buy and don't buy and don't have to
worry about luck."
i remember they told me with this "Prize box method" was fair for everyone (How is fair that someone who spent 200 BUCKS dont get the <1% item but the guy who spent 5 bucks get not even one, if not TWO <1% items so.. how its fair that?). i remember also i told them a fair method would be like you said, put them in Supply depot for energy purchase but they "still believe" the prize box method its fair, that gambling its fair.
After that way of think i decided to stop even buying energy to buy the items, because with that im supporting the gambling aspect of the game. sadly... also buying the item from someone its expensive as **** because if the guy feel like selling the item would ask you around 100-200k E for such item... so i pass to spent even that amount of money.
its sad to see OOO never adopted a system like TF2. i mean how hard could be like: oh hey we launch this promo... you can buy the regular and not tradable versions of this item from Supply depot for certain amount of energy Or you could buy these prize box with a fair chance to net you a rare version of the items from these promos! (for example the promo give us a new weapon like the mixmaster and you can buy it from the supply depot for certain amount of energy OR you can try your luck on the prize box of this promo and get the rare version of such weapon but that shoot prismatic bullets!) in that way if im looking for particular item i just can buy it from supply depot and if people want to look so damn fancy with the rare items frm promos they can try their luck on promo boxes and get that "Inusual" item from the promo. But no...
Sadly as you said paintool there just better things than trying help to save this game...
mer, 08/19/2015 - 16:50
#3
how to lead a calmer, happier life
I basically ignore all promos. In a typical week, if you were to run into me in Haven and ask me what I thought of the promo, I would have no idea which promo was going on.
In its financial effect, this is the same as boycotting promos, which is what you proposed. It's basically boycotting without all of the anger and sadness.
There's no reason to get enraged about what's going on. If you want to spend your money on something, then do. If you don't, then don't.
mer, 08/19/2015 - 18:42
#4
Sheesh
If you like a certain item from a promo, buy that certain item from another player. If you like the items in a promo, buy the boxes and try your luck.
Being salty that chance didn't land in your favor doesn't change the set-in-stone cosmetic gamble we have in game. Mixmaster, yes, that was a bit much. The teddy bear buckler? It's not any better than a dread skelly shield or a gorgomega. The pillow sword? It's to the cold iron carver what the celestial sabre is to the leviathan blade. They're unique yes, but not all that much more "usable", per say.
Bottom line, if you like a promo or the game, support it with your money. If you don't like the way a game is heading or the way a promotion is handled, don't buy into the promo. Three Rings is a business, and for the most part, you will vote with your wallet. If your wallet says one thing and your complaints say another, then the business side of Three Rings will listen to your wallet.
This seems to be a common occurrence with your forum posts. Try to avoid buying into promos if you want a rare or specific item and you'll save yourself a lot of heartache.
mer, 08/19/2015 - 19:08
#5
You seem to think that it's
You seem to think that it's excusable as a business practice then? This isn't a singular problem. This is a recurring issue since OOO thought it was a good idea to introduce new items via time limited chance items. The last time I was told "don't buy into the promo, just buy energy instead" it comes down to the problem being excluded from new content and being subject to merchants who think being fair is reason enough for extortion.
>>If you like a certain item from a promo, buy that certain item from another player. If you like the items in a promo, buy the boxes and try your luck.
Buying from other players means they had to have opened boxes to acquire it, subject to the same chances I tried to get said chance item myself. Because it's so rare, they can charge whatever they feel like: supply and demand. Because I don't want to support and incentivize this type of market, I tried my chances and failed.
>>Being salty that chance didn't land in your favor doesn't change the set-in-stone cosmetic gamble we have in game. Mixmaster, yes, that was a bit much. The teddy bear buckler? It's not any better than a dread skelly shield or a gorgomega. The pillow sword? It's to the cold iron carver what the celestial sabre is to the leviathan blade. They're unique yes, but not all that much more "usable", per say.
This isn't being salty as much as criticizing a flawed system. You're argument to say it's just cosmetic minor differences just doesn't hold. We aren't even told they are reskins; nobody knows or cares, we're curious, we want to be the first to buy something totally new. Do you think we like being the same all the time? What if we want to dress differently? This is the only new content anyone is getting in this game, and this is how we are being fed it. You don't need to have shiny legendary pokemon or unusual weapons in TF2, but it sure is nice we have the option and choice to acquire it ourselves, and not being limited to gambling or paying for overpriced scalping merchants.
>>Bottom line, if you like a promo or the game, support it with your money. If you don't like the way a game is heading or the way a promotion is handled, don't buy into the promo. Three Rings is a business, and for the most part, you will vote with your wallet. If your wallet says one thing and your complaints say another, then the business side of Three Rings will listen to your wallet.
This seems to be a common occurrence with your forum posts. Try to avoid buying into promos if you want a rare or specific item and you'll save yourself a lot of heartache.
I'm not the only one who feels this way or the first person to suggest that promos need to be change. You're not the first person to say "don't like it, don't buy it". Only one person can do so much; the business will only change when the numbers change, and that means putting money where our mouth is. You don't want want new content in prize boxes? We need more people to speak out their distaste.
Nobody from management speaks to us because they can't take complaints. But they certainly do listen to money, and they'll keep it that way.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 00:44
#6
We need more people to speak out their distaste.
The thing is, not everyone has distaste towards these promos. Why do you think they keep selling? There are people out there who don't mind dropping a couple hundred bucks on these promos and there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 06:50
#7
People don't mind dropping a
People don't mind dropping a couple hundred bucks on this game because it's the only way to get anything around here. If I could convince those target players that they would be wiser to not support this cycle, we'd have a different game by now. Why can't they see they're supporting bad customer service?
Like Sweet-Hope said, TF2 has a system that supports continual customers. If you want something, eventually it goes on sale in their shop/supply depot. If you want it, that's money in the pocket straight up front. Their justification to keep things the way they are now is to hook people in. "OH IT WILL COME AROUND EVENTUALLY... MAYBE... IN A YEAR".
Is that how you want to play this game now? That's definitely not how this game started, but that what it's turning into because players can't speak for themselves, and even if they did OOO won't listen to any of us.
And on top of that, radiants are still scarce enough, so even if you did get these new 5* items, you can count on playing the next few hours of your life away too. I'm nearly certain that's been this way to keep end-game vangaurds on the hamster wheel for the past 2 years to keep their Steam population up, or else we'd have deserted the game by now.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 09:20
#8
SK has become too attached to
SK has become too attached to our lives - it's too hard to toss 4 years of work into the trash bin. For the most part, I agree. This game feels like another SOE/Daybreak or Trion Worlds P2W game. The key word here is "feels", so understand I didn't say "is".
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 11:30
#9
It's not my business
How Three Rings wants to support their game is their decision. When the game's core mechanics are not subject to change, and when paid weapons or items are not inherently better than others, it's fine. Cosmetic or very slight changes aren't that big of a deal, and won't unsettle the game. New mechanics or largescale changes (i.e., mixmaster) are a bad decision on a gameplay level, not a business one.
As long as the gameplay itself is not thrown on its back because of promotions, I don't mind. When a promo comes out that I don't have any interest in, I don't buy into it. I vote with my wallet. For example, I simply wasn't interested in the OPERATION: GELID promo, so I didn't buy into it, even if right now I have an arctic crown sitting in my arsenal. I really disliked how Three Rings handled the mixmaster in its promo, so I didn't buy into it, despite having chances right up front to get an amazing item.
The louder and angrier you are won't get the game changed in the way you want. Yelling "no more promos!" leads to the game not having funding, which leads to it getting shut down, which leads to all the time and money and friends you made during your time in game being taken from you. (Friends only if you haven't made contact out of game) Viewing each promo with new eyes and asking yourself if you support it will be more helpful, and get your point across better. Support the promos that you like if you think the developers deserve your money, don't do it because you feel obligated to or because "it's too expensive to buy them off other players". It's day 1 of a promo, if things aren't expensive they're underpriced. Wait a few days before buying into one unless it's a promo you want to support with real money.
What do you not like about this promo? You didn't get the 15% item that you wanted in 14 boxes. That's what it boils down to. There's nothing unfair about this promo that hasn't been brought up several times before, and those several times before can be summed up as "i don't like chance".
Now, radiant fire crystals are much easier to acquire now-a-days than any time post-radiant drought. Heck, Apocrea is one of if not the best way to get radiant fire crystals, and that's happening right now. If you can't be bothered to play apocrea for radiants, or run through dreams and nightmares to get radiants, or run through the arcade to find radiants, or do shadow lairs to find radiants, or play through the King of Ashes mission to find radiants... Then the problem isn't with the game but with your willpower to play through it.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 12:21
#10
I see the crux of your
I see the crux of your argument revolves around 2 weapons. All the other P2W weapons are as good or less good than ones you can get for free. Everything else is pretty colors and accessories.
You wanted it. That's why you spent the money. All I see is a selfish desire to hurt this game because you didn't get what you wanted.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 12:41
#11
.....
I don't mind cosmetic items, reskins, new costumes, stuff of that sort. Paintool made a good example with TF2; you don't have to pay to get all the weapon variants, all you have to do is play, craft, and get lucky drops. Eventually you'll have the ability to play any style you want. Not so with SK anymore, you want the new gear? You gotta gamble some cash or take a big hit to your CE/CR wallet.
The Recon ranger shields, Cleavers, Furious Fork, Spiral Soaker, Node wall/crushers, Deadly Charcoaler, and Sprite Reskins all sold well. I even worked up enough CR to buy a few, why? Because I was going to eventually craft one later, why not get a Reskin?
As cool as this game is I hate to see it going down this path. Trust me, I've been a player that has limited time only items that affect gameplay in a game that was more P2W that this. Bottom line is that I left because the game just wasn't fun anymore. (especially when I beat everyone in PVP and I'm not even fully leveled)
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 12:47
#12
My reserve money for a good promo has been waiting for a year.
- @Fangel: There's nothing unfair about this promo that hasn't been brought up several times before, and those several times before can be summed up as "i don't like chance".
The reason for that is extremely simple. They are fundamentally unfair. Nothing about random grants is ever fair. The promotions are not meant to be fair, they were never meant to. Neither to their audience, nor the content already present in the game.
Fairness does not mean equality. Fairness is what you have to even the situation for everyone so that they all stand with the chances for the same results. Equality means that everyone has the same odds and the same effort requesites floor for the proposed results, but because there isn't always a constant on the results everyone will get based on what they do (due to the outcome being decided beyond their own ction) there are different people who will require more means and effort than others depending on how badly the extent of the variable margin affects them.
One is a constant for what you can and will get. The other is a constant for what you have at your disposal in the aim to do so. To keep a balance between the two is crucial for a proper exchange service, something the promotions within the past two years regularly fail to do on behalf of the limited options they provide for offering the advertised goods in question.
I am willing to wager that people don't like those chances because they don't want what they pay for be reliant on the luck of a draw. And I don't think they should be blamed for thinking that at all, though I would blame some of them for just keeping on doing the same rolls if they simply continue to expect the same outcome they're going for on something that essentially works against them.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 13:14
#13
._ . paint not this again....
=_= adding a poem wont change the fact that the only thing i read is a complain for what you want ,all promo items are easy to get even the 1% without buying boxes or opening any of the boxes, so far I and many others players easily got their promo items from ah or other buyers with not much of an issue maybe at times you end up looking for a long time but in the end you will still find it...
If you think you can get promo items for the price which you think is 'good or cheap' then you wasted at least 20-30 good chances...(not saying you do but i see lots of players having that mentality and they end up not finding what they want...)
'And it's been 1 year since, and mixmaster has not returned period. How long do us unfortunate but equally respectful pay to players have to wait to get content we were unlucky enough to miss? How long do we have to wait for the content that's being sold right now to afford an equal chance to play with?'
._ . there have been quite a few bunch of mixers going around the market...a noticeable one was the one in ah flash sales... and at least 5+ additional ones some with asi very high ecc...I even sold one of my mixers last month before quitting the game ....
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 13:22
#14
Exactly
Prize boxes are fair in that they give the same chances to everyone who opens a box. No one person is favored more than another, and no amount of money will ensure you a certain item. The only factor of how many boxes you'll open depends on how many boxes are bought that promo, either by yourself or another person who sells it to you
You are paying $5 to spin the prize wheel, not to win the prize wheel's grand prize... Yet all I hear about when it comes to boxes are complaints that they didn't win the grand prize.
What Three Rings could do would be to create crafting lines for these items inside of boxes, and give all boxes a 100% chance to contain the new unique materials needed to craft the item. This would mean the more boxes opened, the more unique items inside. This also means that as you open boxes you're working towards your goal of an item, or you get a shortcut to the item (which you can sell if you prefer crafting).
You wouldn't get all materials you need from one box, but you can buy materials off other people who opened boxes and maybe got the item.
Would this cure complaints? Not at all. Would this make complaints shift direction? Definitely.
For the moment however, the whole "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" thing is very applicable. If the prize boxes turned you off before because of their contents then that's a bad move on Three Rings' part. If you keep buying into them... Well, that's no longer Three Rings' issue.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 13:32
#15
@ Fangel
I would prefer that these prize box items be sidegrades to many of the current lines. Going along with your suggestion put the recipes in the box along with a couple of Orbs of alchemy. At the same time add the new recipe to Basil's Clockworks shop at a low rate of appearance. This way people can have the new Items earlier with a chance at UVs from crafting, the rest of use will have to go find the recipe ourselves or buy a crafted one from the purchaser. This way everyone in the game can get one of these items because it is no longer pay to get. It becomes pay to get it sooner than everyone else.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 14:31
#16
Err somewhat
I was thinking recipes could be bought on the auction house or perhaps be added to the "mysterious alchemy machine". Promos would give unique materials dropped in the boxes, or potentially from the prize wheel for the duration of the promo.
If we're going to have a full weapon line, then go ahead. If we have reskins or slight reskins, have them branch off at 5* from whatever is closest (teddy bear from sinister skelly shield, pillow from iron carver, or whatever it's called, power mitt from wise owlite shield, mixmaster from... Er, volt driver?).
The box will not have orbs of alchemy or recipes inside them, they will simply grant the item. You have to actively get those. You're still getting your cosmetic costume or accessory, but also the ingredients to make an item, which are not bound to you so you can sell them on the AH or directly to others.
jeu, 08/20/2015 - 17:16
#17
@Fangel
Good try with the
@Fangel
Good try with the "fool me once" spiel, but OOO never fooled anybody. It is a simple statistic, they didn't "getcha" with anything. It never is OOO's issue, you know what you are getting into from the first box you open.
dim, 08/23/2015 - 09:41
#18
dim, 08/23/2015 - 10:26
#19
Do you think you discovered something? That's fate of B2P and half-B2P MMOs. They either get sold good or bad, change into F2P, try make money on such system and if it won't genetare enough profit to cover running prices, they make themself P2W and close servers when its not profitable anymore. Sprial Knights is no other, it won't escape fate. Only question of closed MMOs is that if devs were able to make enough profit for next game or bankrupt.
lun, 08/24/2015 - 10:44
#20
That's why I never buy
That's why I never buy crates, you will almost always been disappointed.
mar, 08/25/2015 - 14:14
#21
Wasn't literal. I was making an allusion.
Good try with the "fool me once" spiel
Well that's sort of the thing. Prize box contents are plain and stated up front. Wasn't necessarily meaning they "fooled" you to buy into box promos, rather your disappointment is only rooted to yourself, not Three Rings.
The only fool in this scenario is the player who buys into a promo expecting rare items. You do not deserve rare items simply for spending more money on the promo (granted your statistical chance is higher), and if you rely more on your own 1% chances than your ability to make crowns in-game to buy said item, then you are grossly overestimating your chances.
mar, 08/25/2015 - 23:42
#22
BLARGH
Bopp literally took the words from my mouth. If it isn't worth your cash, don't buy it. I will never "quit" spiral knights. I am basically inactive now, aside from logging on to help friends, but I suppose it is my nostalgia for this game (first online game) that keeps me playing. Its because of the many, many great and amazing memories I have of the first few years of SK that give me hope that the devs are still working hard to give us new stuff. Without Nick, i think the team is slowed considerably due to a) lack of experienced programmers, and b) the lack of the spirit that made SK so great. Thats not to say the devs don't have spirit, but I am simply saying - from what very limited viewpoint I hold - that Nick WAS the spirit of the team.~Z
I won't argue with you, you make valid points. I personally have a gripe with punch since getting poison low 3x in a row is pretty BS. (Actually, rolling 4.5mil crowns and getting garbage is pretty bs too).
To be fair, when you deal with chances you know what you are getting into. If the chance to get some item is 10%, and you try it 9 times, the 10th time will still be 10%, it will not have climbed to 100%. But you are smart, you know this already. Thank you for the post by the way, I ALMOST bought boxes to try to get that new weapon, but I realized $20 dollars for 5 boxes is pure silliness, and I could get 2 Chipotle burritos instead.
Sorry to hear your frustration man, but hopefully you, like me, learned that spending money on chances is a terrible idea :/