Casual or Hardcore
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 14:16
What would you define this game as, in terms of Casual or Hardcore? A lot of people say casual, but I disagree.
My Definition of Whether it is Hardcore or Casual = Difficulty
In my opinion, after dying a multitude of times, watching everyone else die a multitude of times, and then watching videos of people dying (a multitude of times), I have gotten the impression that this game is pretty freaking hard. If you have lots and lots of energy, you can potentially revive as many times as you want but... if the game was easy and casual, then would you really be dying that much in the first place? Since I'm not the kind of person who has loads of energy, I've been in the position of getting owned so hard that I had to leave and restart the dungeon. Kind of like an old retro game, where if you die enough times (lose all of your lives) then you have to start the whole game over.
But I still hear from some people that the game is casual. Usually based off the game's cartoon-y style and how easy the game is, starting off (the entirety of Tier 1). I've also heard that it's casual just because of the fact that's it's an MMO game. Also, the time it takes for you to "beat" the game.
What do you think? Which one do you think it is, and please give details. Please state WHY you think the game is whatever. I am interested in your thoughts and input. ^_^
P.S. Please no discussion about how casual/hardcore distinctions never used to be made and that it's all stupid and ridiculous.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 14:40
#2
If you determine if a game is
If you determine if a game is casual or hardcore depending on how difficult it is, than you're not very good at determining what a game is when it comes to casula/hardcore. If you're dying constantly, well that doesn't necessarily make it a hard game either, it could mean you haven't quite learned the ropes yet and need to get better.
Spiral Knights is a game that can be casual or hardcore, depending on what the player wants. And even saying that in the long run it's still fairly casual, and probably always will be even once the amount of content has grown substantially.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 14:43
#3
It's casual. The difficulty
It's casual. The difficulty does not determine whether it's casual or hardcore, rather it's complexity does. Honestly, this game does not require much thinking other than push button and click. It's very simplistic but in a fun way. I don't have to worry about pressing all these random buttons at the right time and, if I wanted to, I could play this game with only one hand.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 14:46
#4
It's a casual game by design.
It's a casual game by design. The Energy system limits your dungeoneering time to ~= 1 hour / day. You can, of course, attempt to subvert this by wasting valuable CE; but that's ultimately futile, unless you're rich, or self-sustaining.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 14:48
#5
I'd say that the game is very
I'd say that the game is very casual friendly, as it lets you jump in and play whenever you feel like it. It doesn't make you
1) set aside a block of hours at a time to play,
2) spend hundreds of hours doing something completely stupid to grind levels,
3) spend half an hour trying to find a group before you can do anything, or
4) schedule your entire life around the game so that you can attend your guild's scheduled raids.
Furthermore, if you don't play very much, then you can play nearly for free, even without buying crystal energy with crowns, as you'll have plenty of mist energy, except for crafting three star and higher gear. The game's business model very much favors those who only play the game a little over those who play it really a lot.
As for difficulty, I don't see it. Yes, there is a heavy dependence on player skill. But that was also true of games like Super Mario World or Tetris. Were those hardcore games? How about FreeCell? That has a considerable dependence on player skill, but if that's not a casual game, then what is?
But come on. The game isn't that hard. Tier 1 is cake, except for the fight against Snarbolax if you don't know what to do. Tier 2 is also pretty easy, except perhaps for jelly palace, danger rooms, and the third arena of arena levels. Dying anywhere else takes a fair bit of doing.
Now, some people do die a lot, because they're suicidal. They don't get that they're supposed to block, dodge, and wait for an opening to attack, and not just charge in recklessly at everything they see. Or even if they do say that they understand that at a high level, they don't get what it means and so they don't actually attempt it. That being suicidal can kill you doesn't mean the game is hard. It just means that it's possible to fail.
Maybe I have the advantage of having grown up playing games like Crystalis or Zelda 3, so I'm used to the style of combat, or perhaps rather, was used to it 20 years ago. I just tried tier 3 for the first time yesterday (not counting a previous solo run to see what it was like), and made it about halfway through the sixth stratum before I died for the first time, on a mixture of three and four star gear.
The game isn't completely trivial to beat. Maybe people coming from games where all you have to do is level up enough and it makes everything trivial don't know how to cope with that. But come on. This isn't exactly Ninja Gaiden. For starters, the controls actually work pretty well, unlike Ninja Gaiden, where part of the difficulty was fighting with the controls to get them to do what you wanted.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 15:11
#6
Sage-like wisdom from
Sage-like wisdom from Quizzical right there.
With regards to difficulty/complexity - it's easy to learn, but difficult to master. It seems shallow, but there's a layer of complexity if you look beyond the surface. For example, there's the complex interaction between damage types, status effects, and monster families. And then there's the gate construction mechanics. And of course, there's the much-maligned economy.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 15:13
#7
False dichotomy, end thread.
False dichotomy, end thread.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 15:16
#8
While some parts of the game
While some parts of the game can be a bit challenging at times, and getting knocked out by a barrage of monsters is quite easy for some people, I think they game is pretty casual. All you're doing really is attacking and blocking. Like Fly18 said, it's not that much of a complex game. ^^;
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 17:01
#9
It depends entirely on how
It depends entirely on how you play it. Free players who do tier 1 runs will tell you it's casual, while those who have gone anywhere near FSC will probably say otherwise. As Onmyo sayd, it really is a false dichotomy
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 17:44
#10
Okay, so going down the list,
Okay, so going down the list, most of you think it's casual for multiple reasons. Others say it's about half-n'-half leaning casual.
One thing I'd like to say is that I'm not basing my conclusion on just me dying. I've yet to find a single party where everybody didn't die at least once going through, though it was worse before they fixed the filamethrowers and nerfed a lot of the monsters. Of course, you get those few people who never die and never get hit, but I feel pretty confident saying that the majority of people get destroyed pretty often. But, as I said in the first post, this mostly only applies PAST Tier 1.
I've been playing video games my whole life, so I've frequently been able to just start on Hard mode (if it has that kind of a setting) and beat the game fairly easily. I barely ever died in Ninja Gaiden and was able to just rush through most of the game (only ever had trouble on a couple bosses). Spiral Knights being the exception because past Tier 1, the game surprised me with the difficulty. Suddenly, if the monsters hit me I take around 3 bars of damage, and my shield is useless until I upgrade it to 3* (you only need 2* to access Tier 2). This may be, in part, to the fact that I mostly use a heavy sword (a Kamarin, to be exact) so it puts me in more danger.
I do have a problem with saying a game is more hardcore if it's "complex". Very few games are, and you can't say a game is hardcore just because it's needlessly complicated. If you just go by complexity, almost every turn-based RPG is hardcore. And they aren't. This would also apply to saying puzzle games are hardcore, and a lot of them (hello, casual market) are not.
I'm a free player, and am mostly able to sustain myself through dungeon runs and selling things on the AH. Doing this I'm well into Tier 2 and have already made a 4* helmet. Onmyooji probably has the right idea though. I may be presenting a False Dichotomy. Again though, I'm saying what I think the game mostly is (considering that Tier 1 is actually less than 1/3 of the clockworks).
On a side note, Quizz, yes. I would consider Super Mario World a hardcore game. I wouldn't consider Tetris hardcore just simply because it's mindless and easy. Freecell...well, I just seriously freaking suck at card games like these. My Mom makes them look so easy, though. :(
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 17:56
#11
I consider this game somewhat
I consider this game somewhat casual. Its quite easy to play and understand the mechanics. SK reminds me of the Monster Hunter series actually. Maybe thats why i enjoy it so much
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 18:07
#12
Uhmm...my definition of
Uhmm...my definition of causal or hardcore really depends on the player. A game like Warcraft can be casual or hardcore depending on whether you want to spend just a few minutes grinding on it or spending tons of hours grinding the hell out of your character.
A game like Spiral Knights can be casual depending on whether you just want to spend that one mist tank (that one tank that takes a day to refill and an hour to use up completely) making a dive or spend hundreds on CE so you can grind your character to every 5* equipment.
A guy raged when I only had a Shadowtech Alchemer when fighting the Jelly King, though truthfully that was my first time there. Some people will take the game far more seriously than others.
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 19:10
#13
Casual
Casual
Mi, 06/29/2011 - 19:17
#14
..games?
Casual/Hardcore players, not games lol. If you don't read the wiki and you don't participate in the forums, and you're just playing for fun, you're playing casually. If you're reading the wiki, plan your future armor sets, participate in forums, log your net earnings, buy energy for the sake of playing more and more and more, you're probably a hardcore player.
I can be your modern gamer, look at this game, and simply say, "oh, well, energy only lets you play for like 1 hour LOL, it's a casual game because it only lets you play for 1 hr". I can also look at the game, see the different buffer tricks you can do with heavy swords, learn the metagame of playing the energy game, find ways to maximize profit by grinding certain stages and see it in a totally different light.
As a game, this really offers stuff to both sides of this artificial coin.
w/e lol I'm leaving this discussion. It really is stupid and ridiculous, mostly because "casual"/"hardcore" are attitudes of players, and there're no SET distinctions that ultimately classify a game (as itself, separated from the players) as one or the other.
I mean, look at 2-player Tetris. Can you say it's casual, or hardcore? :P
Do, 06/30/2011 - 02:30
#15
Yeah yeah I got it. What I'm
Yeah yeah I got it. What I'm mostly hearing is either "Casual" or "you can't make that argument". So I'll just take the Casual answer. I still disagree, but if I wrote a paragraph on everything I disagree with I'd never eat.
I'll just take "it's casual" as the overall (100%, not including me) opinion on the game. Thanks for your input.
Do, 06/30/2011 - 07:25
#16
Based on my limited
Based on my limited experience, SK is primarily casual-friendly, with hardcore-friendly elements.
I think it's safe to call SK more of a casual game when comparing it to other MMOs, as there isn't nearly as much content as some, you can play at your own pace, and a (failed) attempt to limit playtime is made with CE..to name a few. However, it can be pretty difficult at times, there's a bit (a @#$(&ing ton) of grinding, many RPG elements, tons of items and gear to collect, guilds, blah blah, and as far as I know some people have spent ~$400 on it, soooo that would make it seem more like a..hardcore game. I consider it more of a hardcore game but then I'm reminded that I'm wearing a lizard and fighting jello :3