I suggest actually fighting against them after the update first. I for one have barely noticed a difference, and I've been doing arenas.

Yeah, this is a horrible change. I don't know why they had to remove the blind spot from Gunpuppies. It was the main tactics in fighting them. And made sense.

I've done two arenas today. And on the Gunpuppy wave, you just get slaughtered. It is impossible to dodge every shot that comes your way. The screen just gets completely covered in them. Which of course, doesn't help the game's lag issues.

Please change them back to the way they were. This is just a bad move.

Most of the time they are a threat. In many situations, you can't get up behind them.
But in some places you were able to use that strategy.

As it is now, arenas are ridiculous. The only way you're making it through without being hit is dumb luck.

I agree with Hoxa, I mean if your a gunner youll prob be fine(bombers possibly too) but swordsman its a killer. Gun puppies update im fine with but they should balance it, like slowign down their time of shooting or something. Gun puppies are probably one of the things that most users get killed by. There is no strategy now therefore gun puppies will probablly kick butt (that stragtegy has saved me a couple of times) for some people. I just hope they arent as hard as a tier 2 arena with all the robots and shock at the end, thats what is hard to me ATM.

It actually almost sounds like you didn't and just made a story up honestly. I don't even see how you could activate all or even most turrets, especially since that type of situation is not even what the update changed.

what happens if you shiver the turrets o:

Hova
@Volebamus
How could you activate all the turrets? Simple. Since the new update you can run around the entire room now and all the turrets will be woken up, so lets say you tried to dodge some already activated turrets and in doing activated another, soon enough all the Gun Puppies will be awake.

This just sounds like you've been doing it wrong, honestly. The strategy against turrets aren't to keep running around the room, you focus on turrets one by one. I don't even know why you would do what you're suggesting in the first place, as doing that strategy while kiting (which is the only reason that would even be attempted in the first place) ends up accidentally waking the Puppies anyway.

The only thing different is you don't get that extra half second that the turret needs to turn over, since it wakes up when you're in proximity rather than with the first strike you do against it. If you somehow wake multiple up in an arena that they all can gang up against you, you have to be doing something very wrong.

Gun puppies were changed? How were they changed? I fought a few after the update and they didn't seem to notice me any faster than before. I haven't done any arena since the update, though.

I just came out of the current Twins gate, with it's 2 arenas. To tell the truth, I didn't notice any major change. Gunpuppies still have blind spots, they just activate now if you're breathing down their neck. If you're far behind them or off to one side at a reasonable distance they don't wake up. One of my turret waves spawned when I was in a bad position, basically right next to one of them, and only the turret closest to me and the ones on the far side of the room facing me woke up. The one next to the one I was on top of didn't see me until I shot him. If you're actually right in the corner of the room, none of them wake up until you move, or you hit one. Also, I'd like to point out that gunpuppy bullets don't actually travel the full width of the arena anyhow, so the ones on the far side of the room are a non-issue.

My first arena tonight was the one on Depth 11, in the middle of the Fiend Strata. I was wearing a Seraphic Mail, Seraphic Helm, and carrying a Sinister Skelly Shield. Not a spec of Elemental defense on me. I think I lost 4 bars of health in the entire level, and that's in an arena full of Greavers and Devilites. To be honest, the new Gunpuppies barely even registered as a threat.

if you mess up and are in the middle of the Arena when they spawn, I'll miss you.

Newsflash: This is no different from their previous behavior. I've even had this happen to me recently, and while it's not a mistake I'll be making again any time soon, (learning experience +1) it still didn't kill me. I got hurt, I'll admit, but I'd rather face down the 8 turrets than deal with 8 Alpha Wolvers again like last week. Now THAT is an arena wave that needs some bloody adjustment. (Just kidding. It's 2 waves, which you don't have to get all at once if you know what you're doing. I messed up, and no, I won't be making that mistake again any time soon either.)

From the update announcement:

Monsters
* Gunpuppies will now target mechaknight bodyguards.
* Removed rear, near-range blind spot on Gunpuppies.
* Decreased the status power of tier 1 gun puppies and increased the status power of tier 3 gunpuppies.

There's some other stuff related to Blast Network, Gremlin Menders and Mecha Knights, but those are the relevant points.

Basically, the bit that everyone is whining about is that if you're standing behind a gunpuppy now, but you're close to it, it'll wake up, turn around, and shoot you.

"Oh and way to go not reading the topic Retequis. Most posters here actually mentioned little to no differences, it's the minority who are complaining."

Considering the fact I wasn't expecting to be taken seriously with that post at all seeing how I compared 8 gunpuppies firing to Touhou of all things, I'm pretty sure you just need to get a sense of humor.

Bn28
I mean if your a gunner youll prob be fine(bombers possibly too) but swordsman its a killer.

I just want to chime in about bombers. Bombers didn't have an answer to gun puppies before the patch and now they're even more boned. There is absolutely NO bomb that can deal with aggro of 3+ puppies. You seriously think you have it tough with your sword? Shield, avoid bullets and take your time hitting once, twice, three times.

To make if so you can understand, a nitronome hits as hard as a leviathan's single swing but you have to stay vulnerable to 1.2-1.4s just to deal that damage. You can't shield when you're not attacking and you basically have to dodge bullets from multiple puppies for 1.2-1.4s, if you get hit while dropping the bomb it becomes a dud. It's NOT like a sword charge where you'll still attack; you completely lose that bomb. Seriously, imagine doing 3 levi charge attacks to kill each puppy, that's more or less what bombers have to deal with.

If anything I think this screws over bombers more than any other class.

A frozen Gun Puppy cannot turn. Pure-bombers can use a Freezing Vaporizer to freeze them in place and then plant two Blast Bombs for damage before retreating to prepare the next freeze bomb.

The Nitronome's blast radius can easily outreach the Gun Puppies' new proximity sensor range anyway.

Can anyone confirm if the vana gate rocket gun puppy acts any differently post patch?

"You all should go play Touhou if this is perceived as difficult. Crybabies, all of you."

^---- This

As a Touhou veteran, I don't know what some of you people are crying about. The block button isn't just there for blocking attacks, it's for focused movement through curtain fire. Map block to a mouse button and make small movements. That your shield actually *blocks* a shot or two is just gravy and not something you'd have in Touhou.

Also, as others have said, the update didn't give them 360 vision. It just wakes them up if you're standing immediately behind them. It does force you to respect them a bit more in arena, and I don't see how it was strictly necessary, but if you're any good at the game it's not going to change things much. I already gave gun puppies I'm not ready for a wide berth.

@midnighttea

And yet, the funny thing is, this isn't Touhou, so please don't compare two entirely different games.

Yeah, I did the manic shooter thing, and frankly, I sucked at it. Gunpuppies are pretty cake though.

Incidentally, for those of you who have absolutely no frickin' clue what Retequis and midnighttea are talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nb5Ohbt1Sg

Yeah.

No.

I reiterate, Gunpuppies are cake.

@Aviraphaile

Again, this isn't Touhou so please don't go comparing to entirely different games.

ITT: People with no sense of humor.

Yeah, we know. However, cross-training works. It's a different game, but parts of the skill-set overlap. It's just a question of application.

Also, if you can't spell my name, just cut&paste it?

"Again, this isn't Touhou so please don't go comparing to entirely different games."

Your repeating yourself has an air of desperation to it. I don't think you like the idea that someone who's played a different, very difficult game could play your game better than you can. I can actually sympathize with your feelings, but it doesn't change how things are. If you clear a Touhou game on Hard or better, you're more than equipped to deal with gun puppies. Principles from Touhou such as focused movement, avoiding places where projectiles cross, positioning, (fairy) killing order etc. all apply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfy9Yh7keI

Gun puppies are only a serious threat, I find, in cramped spaces alongside other monsters. By themselves they're a nuisance at worst. Even if we're talking like four of them firing at once. (If you woke up all eight, you have no one to blame for your carelessness but yourself. And no, they don't have 360 vision now, they just notice now if you're violating their personal space. So stop doing that.)

@midnighttea

You totally know me, everything you said about me is absolutely true, not. So here's a thought: stop thinking you actually know what the person who you are replying to is thinking, and get some actual facts about them instead of being arrogant.

@actinium agreed. Not only are paths predetermined, your hitbox on almost ANY bullet hell game is pretty much right in the middle of your character. Gun puppies don't have that predetermined path, nor does your knights have a hitbox smaller than itself. There can be a comparison for the style of attack, but not for how easy it is to dodge. Also agreed at the fact that you have to be right behind them to wake them up. They can still be within a blades reach and still not wake up. Also, arena wise, for me there's usually at least one idiot standing right in the middle of the arena when the puppys spawn, so it's not like it makes a difference if you go in a party with one of those people anyway.

I've generally found that there is usually some kind of space to be found in intersecting turret fire. There are times where its in an inconvenient location (ie. miles away from the turret) and/or difficult to get to, but unlike a shooter you have the option of making a hole where there is none by using your shield. Yes, many shields won't hold up well under repeated assault, but it's a few hits you don't have to take before it becomes a real problem. The trick to prolonging the life of your shield is to make sure you're standing somewhere that there's only 1 bullet to block, if possible.

I'll freely admit that I have a massive advantage when dealing with puppies, as a gunner. Many gunners have complained bitterly in the past about being basically forced to carry a sword in our loadout because of the sheer number of enemies that auto-dodge gunfire. Personally I just skipped the complaining stage and just picked up a variety of sharp and shiny stuff anyhow. Perhaps you should think about packing a sidearm now? (Psst! I recommend a Pulsar.)

As for mobs from previous waves complicating things for you, well, maybe now you'll pay attention to what you kill in future? I've learned quite a bit about arenas since I started soloing them in the last week or so (personally, I was petrified of attempting something like that until recently, even before the gunpuppy change), and the way the waves are spawned is perhaps the most important thing. Once you learn how to manipulate that to your advantage, life gets much easier.

There's a number of topics that have turned up on the boards recently about dealing with the unique challenge that Arenas present, and perhaps you should spend some time perusing them before you complain about how they're "impossible" now.

please