The Cradle is more of a game lobby than a world
mer, 10/27/2010 - 16:34
So, feel free to slow me down if I'm getting way ahead of where the game should be at this point, but there's something missing, and it's a really big something.
Let me explain. Right now, it seems the only real objective in the game is to go into the clockworks and fight in the dungeons. That's fun but if that's the whole game it's going to have no lasting appeal. When I'm not in a dungeon the only thing there is to do is chat. I'm not living in this world, I'm passing though it on my way to playing in the dungeons.
Let's compare to 2 other games - Puzzle Pirates and Bang Howdy. Exploring the Clockworks is comparable to pillaging in Puzzle Pirates and playing any of the games in Bang Howdy.
In Puzzle Pirates there is an engrossing, complex world that's built around pillaging, including many variations on it (Blockades, Sea Monster Hunts, etc.), carousing to do when not on a ship, and a player driven economy. In Bang! Howdy when you are done playing the gold rush, you log off. There literally is no world. You don't live there. It is pretty much entirely a game lobby.
Puzzle Pirates has been a great success. Bang Howdy, not so much. I believe that a big big reason for that is because there is no world to live in. It's just a game lobby for games that are fun to play once in a while.
Right now Spiral Knights is much much closer to Bang Howdy than Puzzle Pirates. Sure there are a few scenes that your avatar can hang out in when you're not in the Clockworks, but it's not engrossing. When I don't feel like playing in the Clockworks any more I log off. I have no sense of living in the world.
Even if the Clockworks are twice what they are now by launch, if they are 60 levels deep, what happens once I'm able to beat it? There is 0 high-end content, which isn't a big deal, the game isn't even launched, but if there are no plans for higher end content, if the expectation is that I'll keep pumping in money to keep going to the core over and over again, then that's going to lead to disappointment when it comes to OOO's coffers.
I hope I don't sound overly critical, or like I have higher expectations of what this game can be than it's intended to, but I'm trying to give as much useful feedback as possible from myself and gamers like me.
So what can be done to make the world something I live in, rather than pass through? I'm not sure, it depends on the direction the game takes. PvP definitely, and a reason to PvP. That should lead to politics of some sort.
More player influence on the world. Right now the only effect players have on the world are making the arcade gates, but that's a really really good start. It would be interesting if the concept was expanded so that players could keep pushing outward laterally from Haven, instead of just deeper. We have a whole planet, we shouldn't be limited to just one surface town.
Letting players blaze new permanent or semi-permanent paths to other areas of the world would be great. One thing that Puzzle Pirates has always been missing is the freedom to explore, to expand the map, to discover new areas. That would be a great mechanic in Spiral Knights, and a great goal for a guild, to explore and push out and eventually discover... something! I don't know what, either a new surface town, or some other completely new mechanic, other than dungeon crawling.
I feel like the game has a lot of room for growth into a much more complex and engrossing experience, into a world I want to live in. I don't know if that is in the plans though, but I hope so.
mer, 10/27/2010 - 17:30
#2
This is why we need quests,
This is why we need quests, and special events to keep us active. AND ACHIEVEMENTS!!!!
mer, 10/27/2010 - 17:35
#3
A Explorable World
While I don't think that Spiral Knights needs quite the type of world that Puzzle Pirates has, I do agree that it needs something if it's going to have lasting appeal.
Bang Howdy was a very fun game, but unfortunately that wasn't enough to keep it alive. Spiral Knights already has it off better than Bang Howdy in that you can at least see other players when in a town, but unlike Puzzle Pirates, once in the town, the only thing you can do is chat or play another round.
Exploring outward could be a lot of fun. Maybe the rewards on the surface aren't so great, but since you don't need to use any lifts, you don't need to use any energy either. Perhaps these sort of explorable areas could use some kind of semi-persistent world. It is still instantiated as normal, but players always enter the areas from the start (or end if they're coming from that direction), and enemies spawn in a different way to give players entering the area something to kill. Maybe the group size could even be increased just for these areas. You wouldn't exactly be playing on a team like usual, but you'd still be encountering and playing alongside other players.
Maybe along the way, lifts could be found (these would require energy as usual) that have simple dungeons with one or two floors. Maybe these could be similar to the Firefly Gate, but more difficult, depending on their distance from Haven.
Perhaps guild halls could be integrated with this. Out in the world, there are locations that can be captured, but must be maintained, for what would probably be a crown and energy cost. Once captured, they could function as subtowns, but certain aspects are controlled by the guild. Maybe each of these could have an arcade-style gate, customizable with minerals. Maybe only the guild can deposit minerals into it, or maybe anyone can. Maybe the guild can decide who can deposit minerals. Whatever the case, anyone would be allowed to play.
There are a lot of ways to keep players in the game, and I think having some kind of explorable world is a great way to do this. The most important thing, I think, is making sure players can encounter each other without making any special arrangements, in one way or another.
mer, 10/27/2010 - 17:46
#4
I agree that more outward
I agree that more outward expansion needs to be done over inward. But there are still sections of the town that are in development, so there's already a little work going towards that.
I just hope more lore-producing NPCs appear, and perhaps exploration of the surface of Cradle. Plus some quests could open up new pre-made dungeon opportunies - for example, locating the crashed Skylark to find that it's been infested (I can imagine a lot of trojans appearing inside its hull), as well as opening up ways to learn about the origin of the Spiral Knights themselves.
Then again I suppose that's a bit too traditional MMO fare for what has been going on so far, but it never hurts to mention something in case a spark of inspiration is struck somewhere.
mer, 10/27/2010 - 17:50
#5
Re: This is why we need quests,
>This is why we need quests, and special events to keep us active. AND ACHIEVEMENTS!!!!
I don't think quests are a good idea unless they're more like quick, short-term objectives for showing new players what they can do like in Puzzle Pirates. I've previously put a lot of thought into the quest systems in MMORPG's and the effects they have on players, and I've concluded that quests (WoW-style) actually hurt the community and separate players. This would have a very negative impact on the game, not a positive one. People tend to focus only on their current quest. If quests are easy to solo, players won't bother grouping. If they require a group, they will only be frustrating when groups aren't available.
mer, 10/27/2010 - 17:56
#6
Oh, and to expand a bit
Oh, and to expand a bit on my previous idea of finding mini-dungeons in an explorable world, these could be like the Firefly Gate and contain bits of lore like you can see in the Jelly Farm stages. There don't have to be full-on missions to keep the story interesting, but little things like that would be fun.
I like that the world is so mysterious. Finding clues and piecing them together through exploration is much more fun than simply being told what's happening in some kind of storyline.
jeu, 10/28/2010 - 17:59
#7
Hmm ...
What if "player
Hmm ...
What if "player towns", or settlements, can be built -- at a huge cost in game coin, with a large ongoing coin expense -- with, in return, the ability to set up player-run shops, and/or control who else sets up shops? And control the taxation locally?
Let me fill in the gaps before you complain. Yes, a large coin sink -- just like blockades -- so you have a demand for coin to drive the exchange.
And yes, players are in charge of the economy. Yes, at first glance, you have to "toady up" to the governor to run a shop.
But there's no limit to the number of towns -- anyone else can run a town. Maybe towns closer to the spawning areas cost more to maintain and build -- areas that are too expensive will have to shut down. Maybe there's a way to travel to outlier towns.
With the towns competing for players, there's other options. Maybe the better places (cheaper? More established people?) spawn more.
But yes, there needs to be chat everywhere (B!H failed on that). There needs to be socializing everywhere (from the original Bartlett, you want socializers and explorers to drive the rest of the game world types).
So, exploring the surface? Finding other dungeons? Finding GOOD dungeons? Setting up towns at the good ones? Letting people know so you get some revenue, and people spawn there? Maybe a giant, titan-ic creature attacks on the surface and your towns don't last, and you know it from day one?
jeu, 10/28/2010 - 18:06
#8
There's a thing called Guild Hall
@BehindCurtai
A guild cost 500ec and 3k crown, it comes with a guild hall area and a merchant that sells trinkets.
Also that setting up a town thing isn't too practical in the long runs, maybe a type of temp outpost but towns are just too much.
I love the world of Spiral Knights, it is so original and rich in potential and I would also like to see that potential realised.
One of my favourite parts of this preview is the way tutorials are done; you crash land on the planet and have to travel to the camp. You talk to NPCs and start to learn about this strange world, and your place in it. You hear of the almost legendary figures called Spiral Knights whom you will soon be joining on their quest to discover the world's secrets. And then you embark for Haven, upon a well-used but still wild and perhaps dangerous path.
It has a real feeling of embarking on an adventure that unfortunately hasn't carried over to the rest of the game yet; I too would like to see more exploration, more adventuring, more lore. But there's enough here for me to feel confident that all this potential won't be squandered. There's clearly some very talented people working on this thing!
Perhaps taking our first look at the real Core will answer all our questions :)