Lockdown boils down to who has the best gran faust
dim, 09/18/2011 - 02:46
Before I start, I'm sorry for only really complaining on the forums. I have a lot of great experiences on spiral knights, I just never really use the forums unless something bugs me ._.
Anyways,
so lockdown came out, and boy was I excited. It's pretty much TF2 but spiral knights. Anyways, so I start it up and I see a whole diversity of swords and it's really interesting to see the choices people make in their lines. Anywho, I play loads of rounds and grind 60 krogmo coins without even noticing as we stomp the team every time somehow.
Next day. Everyone has Gran Faust.
I know this won't be for everyone, and heck I know my complaint will be invalid because I like to use T3 stuff but the fact that everyone has gran faust in T3 and that there's no strategy either than the person who can hit somebody from a mile away even though they're not even remotely close wins. (it's a generally bugless experience either than that)
anyways, I should start playing T1 or T2 maybe. It's cheap, I guess.
Your thoughts?
dim, 09/18/2011 - 04:24
#2
As a Guardian I have had very
As a Guardian I have had very few issues taking out Gran Faust and Divine Avenger users. Exploiting their slowness and poor recovery time is easy. The problem is Recons. They are COMPLETELY invisible and can already be in the attacking animation before they are visible to you. Those are the only people using this line of weapon that bother me.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 04:35
#3
an idea
heres an idea its called get 1
not to sound mean or anything but if u have the following:
BTB
DA
GF
VT
and you play ither recon or striker your gunna own because its always an 1-2 hit kill your better off goin down to T2 or T1 cause in T3 your not gunna find any nice people that are willing to lay down their blades because it makes them op
dim, 09/18/2011 - 12:16
#4
I agree with IronBrofist
I agree with IronBrofist
i crafted new 3* gear and started running T2 and i like it alot more. it is alot more balanced. reguardless of weapon or armor, no one can 1-shot or
2-shot.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 13:54
#5
How can people have trouble
How can people have trouble fighting against gran faust? It's so slow that you can get a hit in between their 1st and second hit... guardians and strikers both should have a very easy time versus GF.
The worst weapon IMO, by far, is barbarous thorn blade. It kills in two hits just like the GF and it has almost no lag whatsoever on any of its 3 hit combo attacks. Get hit once, and hitstun ensures that you get hit again and you're dead. And auto lock on ensures that it's always pointing in your direction.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 13:57
#6
IDK
I find piercing sword lines to be every bit as imbalanced. Without fail they cause damage before they swing. It gets obnoxious to have some one rush in and smack you twice, you wonder what happened, and then they swing there sword twice after the fact. At which point they have dashed behind u, u die, and then they swing their sword again after the fact. ANd recon seems even more powerful with a sword that does damage before the atack, imo
dim, 09/18/2011 - 15:18
#7
DA isn't all that... divine...
I use a DA, and it's alright, but I wouldn't call it OR Gran Faust OP just yet. I've already reserved that term for any ice weapons (since there's no way to dispell freeze effects in LD, even with attacks from you or team-mate). I've actually noticed some pretty sweet performance outta the Brandish line too, since the projectile's easier to fire off.
I do have one main gripe though, besides the broken ice bombs: My attacks get canceled?
I've noticed that on quite a few occasions, my attacks when using DA get canceled quite often when I'm being attacked by other players, even when I attack first. Attack animation STARTS UP, and then my guy just puts his arm back and takes a hit. I get cut off mid-swing. Anybody else have this problem?
dim, 09/18/2011 - 15:42
#8
I don't even think the best
I don't even think the best weapon to use in Lockdown is a GF. I have a much rougher time with Twisted Snarbles and Flourish's because they move with more speed. GF or DA tends to be a very slow swing.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 16:45
#9
Mr_Giggles and IronBrofist
Mr_Giggles and IronBrofist are right
End of discussion .__.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 19:02
#10
Pierce swords are the most broken
The pierce lines are the most broken swords in t3 pvp right now. Their hit and damage occur prior to the actual swing. Anytime someone has a 5* pierce sword (at least when i've played) they always lead in damage. In fact, i'd say they are the only thing in PvP that are simply out and out broken.
PS Yes, ur teammates attacks should brake your freeze, it makes no sense that it doesn't. It has to be a bug.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 20:01
#11
I agree that people wielding
I agree that people wielding DA/GF are easy to kill. The people that are complaining about DA/GF are the same people that try to sit there and trade hits without moving.
The flourish/snarby line on the other hand is overpowered, especially with auto-target on. The fact that your attacks get interrupted means there's almost no chance to counter or move once their attack animation begins.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 20:08
#12
build or buy some T2
build or buy some T2 equipment. It's a lot more competitive. I have a T1 setup too, but not a lot of people do T1 games.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 20:10
#13
Do you know how easy it is to
Do you know how easy it is to kill DA/GF players? As strikers/recons their attack animation is so long it's easy enough for me to dodge it and attack back. If you're trying to tank their hits than by all means you deserve to die.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 20:46
#14
Eeyup T3 sucks, tier 2 is
Eeyup T3 sucks, tier 2 is alot more balanced and fun..
dim, 09/18/2011 - 21:08
#15
eh
they'll fix t3 i imagine. They can't look at the mssg boards and be happy with the state of it.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 21:59
#16
the reason why piercing
the reason why piercing swords are powerful imo cause
1. you probably dont have any resist against it
2.they deal damage before the animation
3.there fast
i think you should do tier2 pvp though, its alot more fun without any 1hit ko'ers or 2hitko'ers, and its actually really intense or competative
dim, 09/18/2011 - 23:30
#17
Playing Tier 2 is not a
Playing Tier 2 is not a solution to weapons being supposedly over powered in Tier 3.
That said, I have had little to no difficult taking a Snarble/Flourish user with my Leviathan. One just needs to lear how they function, and maybe bring pierce protection.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 23:47
#18
Lockdown boils down to who
Lockdown boils down to who has the best latency.
Fixed. Goddamn lag.
dim, 09/18/2011 - 23:59
#19
U should
YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE TO PLAY A GAME WITHOUT SWORDS ALLOWED!!!!!!!!
lun, 09/19/2011 - 00:20
#20
This is precisely why
This is precisely why beta-PvP was not released.
The conclusion I draw from PvP is that when we're in the clockworks, we're doing a heck of a lot more damage to the mobs than the mobs are doing to us.
i.e.
When you take a weapon that's designed to beat the snot out mobs with hundreds of hit points, and then use it against players with only a few hit points, you're going to get a lot of one or two hit kills (especially when a player has no resistance to that damage type). Nerfing the swords in lockdown but not in the clockworks may/may not be a problem -- I don't know, I'm not a programmer.
Grand fausts are/were the dominant sword of lockdown because a lot of people in Tier 3 are/were stuck in the mentality that the Vog Cub set was the premiere set. Vog has no resist to shadow (without a UV), so all the Vog users are/were getting trounced.
The best set for Tier 3 might be a couple of heart pendants and an armor set that gives you a little bit of resist to all the major damage types (normal/shadow/pierce/elemental, plus shock). I.e. get enough hit points and resist so they can't one-hit you with anything.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 05:42
#21
guardians ftw
i guess we can say that guardians are a huge preference on the field....
lun, 09/19/2011 - 08:42
#22
Personally I love seeing Vog
Personally I love seeing Vog cub users get slaughtered..so tired of seeing half the game population wearing the same thing. A sentenza makes very short work of them.
Anyways, a Twisted Barble will still take you down in three shots even if you have some pierce resist. I play with armor that gives me half-full resist on everything and I always go down against three swings from it.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 08:44
#23
Get some shadow defense...
Get some shadow defense...
lun, 09/19/2011 - 10:34
#24
Zingman , I doubt that's true
Zingman , I doubt that's true regarding HP discussion. The reason enemies have a hard time to kill us is because we have vitapods in addition to whatever we have while in clockworks. There are no vitapods in PVP, though it's rarely brought up in these discussions. I think it's a possible welcome addition.
And people have already said the big weakness of heavy swords: the big lag time after the swing. If dodged or shielded, it's a big opening.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 11:18
#25
I personnaly use the
I personnaly use the Barbarous Thorn blade with my Skolver set and I kill people between 3 and 4 hit. Depending if they have piercing resist or not. The only one getting 2 shot are those who don't wear any T5 armor set.
I also like the mentality of Grand Faust and Divine Avenger saying those sword are weak because they are slow and making you weak. Those swords are maybe slow but they Outdamage anything in a AoE and 1 swing is generaly requiered from the Faust because none has shadow resistance, I got a bit from Variances on my items but not enough apparently to resist 1 single hit.
Also Strikers can negate the weakness of the Faust and Avenger just by using the Rush after the first swing compensating that "Weakness" and the cooldown from the hits just with some additonal movement speed.
And about you people saying piercing weapons are cheated because they hit fast, and the animation hits you before the action actualy happens (wich I realy doupt , but i'll test it), but have you ever tried playing a Guardian? Those piercing weapons combos are not even capable of breaking a Guardians shields, not even the Barbarous Thorn Blade with a well placed charged attack can do this in a single combo while your little Avenger and Faust dude are killing the shield with a single strike. If you have problem with those using the Flourish series, just block the first combo and kill them with your single strike after their third attack animation, you will see how easy it is.
I don't care if Faust and Avenger deals tons of damage, sinds those are the 2 best sword (damage wise) in game, but getting OS because some dude decided to put maximum Dmg gear and use a Faust is completly stupid and the fact it can compensate its weakness with the Guardian Block or the Striker Rush makes the job even easier for them. So Dev FIX THIS!
lun, 09/19/2011 - 12:23
#26
I wear no shadow or piercing
I wear no shadow or piercing defense, and I have never been killed in one hit with any sword, even Gran Faust, and have never successfully killed anyone in less than three hits with Barbarous Thorn Blade (unless they were already damaged, of course). Now, don't get me wrong, I get killed by DA in two hits despite my elemental defense, but it's a fairly simple matter to dash away with the Striker boost while they're swinging, and then circle around behind them and cut them down. Also, Guardians are the ones I have the least trouble beating, even using Barbarous Thorn Blade. Swing, swing, dash, swing, swing, dash.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 12:29
#27
So, uh, why do people seem to
So, uh, why do people seem to THINK that any weapon with Curse or Shadow damage dominates everything in Lockdown?
lun, 09/19/2011 - 13:14
#28
Slow weapons in general,
Slow weapons in general, regardless of how powerful they are, can easily be countered by a careful approach. Don't get close until you know they're stuck in the recovery animation, or, better yet.. use guns and never get close period. Blast them to smithereens if they go attacking someone else. If they're strikers, then they can chase after you easily sure, but they also have less health to blast through if you can avoid their initial attack and counterattack them. Or, just use a really fast-attacking weapon. Fast weapons in Lockdown have the major disadvantage of hitting again while the victim still has the temporary damage immunity from the first hit you made, but they also have the advantage of being able to interrupt any and every attack the opponent throws. It doesn't matter how much damage he can do if you keep pressing the attack with a cutter and he can never once finish an attack animation.
With recons using heavy weapons, it's a double-edged sword. Sure, they're more easily able to get in that first attack, but that just means if you know there's a recon guy on the enemy team who's carrying a big weapon, go into panic mode as soon as you get that about-to-get-debuffed warning, and note both that Recon is the only class with an attack speed PENALTY on swords and that big heavy swords are really the only weapons in the game where an attack speed penalty is noticeable to begin with. Whenever a recon attacks with a heavy sword, he is going to be standing still and defenseless for a LONG TIME, so if he doesn't finish you off with that first attack, or have ample support from his teammates, then he is DEAD.
As for the Fausts and also Nightblades and other shadow weapons in general... pretty soon we're all going to have built up skelly suits just for PvPing with and that will negate all of the advantage they currently have. Then, everyone will start using some other type of damage, and we'll use different armor, and this sort of back-and-forth constant adaptation game will continue forever. It's part of the fun and strategy of Lockdown, I think. Of course, keep in mind that a Guardian's shield doesn't care what kind of damage you can do and a Recon's debuff doesn't care what kind of armor you have, so playing as or with the right classes effectively can negate any damage type bonuses anyone has.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 13:53
#29
Can't really play keep away
Can't really play keep away with guns with how striker works atm, kinda stupid. Swords would be probably be more balanced if the sprint wasn't so good
That said i'll keep using my GF and BTB until they fix it
lun, 09/19/2011 - 15:56
#30
One word - metagaming. Build
One word - metagaming. Build Shadow defense armor to counter the Shadow weapons. Then everyone will use Piercing or Elemental weapons, so everyone will switch armor again. It'll go in a circle like that, it's part of how competitive play works.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 15:59
#31
The thing i hate the most is
The thing i hate the most is how OOO know they dont have the resources to provide EU or other servers so we can play on an even keel...yet they add stuff like the striker class to lockdown which makes any existing lag even worse, having to pre-empt your opponent by god knows how long is to stand a chance is insane when everyone else can react purely to what they're seeing
That and how unbalanced the damage seems regardless of any resistance are the only problems i have with lockdown
lun, 09/19/2011 - 16:47
#32
Striker can't attack and dash
Striker can't attack and dash at the same time, though. So, if he's got a really BIG weapon and dashing towards you, then do the following:
If you're also a striker... dash around or away from him. If he started dashing before you did, then he's going to stop dashing before you do. He can't catch you unless you run straight into him. And if he stops to attack, just circle around and smack him before he recovers from the attack animation.
If you're a guardian, well... him getting close to you faster isn't going to make your shield any less effective.
If you're recon, then go invisible, move in a direction you think he won't expect, and watch him go running right past you. Then, get the drop on him as soon as he stops moving. You can stay invisible a lot longer than he can stay dashing around.
If your weapon is faster than his weapon... just attack him the moment he gets close enough to attack and don't let up until he starts running away.
lun, 09/19/2011 - 17:00
#33
That's just the thing though,
That's just the thing though, you can't reliably do stuff like "attack when hes close enough" with a bad connection to the server, cus when you think hes somewhere, hes actually somewhere else/already attacked - you have to guess and pre-empt movements, which is perfectly fine if they're not a striker but the boost just makes it 10x worse
lun, 09/19/2011 - 19:17
#34
Honestly, I don't think
Honestly, I don't think there's much you really CAN do in Lockdown if you have a bad connection :(
Well... maybe you could be a guardian, and focus mainly on supporting your teammates and dropping bombs? Area denial via bombs doesn't require you to keep up with exactly where the enemy is, just to plant bombs where you think they might eventually go or you just don't want them to even try to go, while you can use your shield to protect and (slowly) recover the health of your teammates?
On the other hand, it also seems to me like the people with really really bad connections are just as difficult to hit as it is for them to hit other people. I saw someone the other day who was lagging all over and complaining about not being able to hit people, but at the same time it wasn't registering it when I went up and tried to poke him in the face with my rigadoon. :P
lun, 09/19/2011 - 20:11
#35
It's really only the speed of
It's really only the speed of strikers that wreak havoc with poor connections, the faster something moves the more it exaggerates even the smallest amount of lag. Clockworks, and even fighting recons/guardians..mostly fine, certainly reasonable enough to be enjoyable, but strikers...sweet jesus.
Those people with REALLY bad connections who warp around though, that really is on their end and they can't fault the game in that case.
It's fine really, just frustrating. At this point it's pretty clear EU servers isn't something OOO will ever have the resources to do, i'd just hoped something like this wouldn't be in lockdown (it also bothers me cus it severely hampers the ability to use guns, that and their relatively poor damage, but thats just my personal preference i guess). I already play guardian mostly anyhow, also : )
mar, 09/20/2011 - 04:23
#36
lol
I celebrate when I see an enemy team covered in vogcub-wearing, GF-wielding strikers. It makes for an easy match, all you gotta do is introduce them to Mr. shivermist and you get littered with dead bodies around you :P
Also, tanking their hits as a guardian then striking back in their post-attack delay usually kills them :P
The only thing I don't like about PvP (besides the piercing sword bug) is the auto-aim. I'm not someone who blames it everytime they die but I believe PvP would become far more about skill and less about button mashing if it were removed....
mar, 09/20/2011 - 04:54
#37
lagg is greatBut mind you,
lagg is great
But mind you, the game is still relatively new.... soon people will discover the better pvp options, and how to counter attacks. e.g. as soon as people realise you can reach max ctr bombs on striker.... you have a whole new league of OP. Just enjoy it while you still can; use your GF's and your DA's to your hearts content. but I'm so running in the other direction once you whip out your flourish.
and yeah, for now t1/2 is where it's at for me.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 05:34
#38
Whats the point of this textbox up here?
newbs that keep running around in the locker room changing classes are VERY annoying.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 06:22
#39
@randomthing
I'm a Vog Cub
@randomthing
I'm a Vog Cub wearing, Gran Faust wielding Striker, and Shivermist has not been a problem for me to counter in Lockdown. It's rather hard to charge up anything when someone is shooting you with the gun they brought for exactly that situation. Also, I've been hit with Freeze before and still managed to kill three players while frozen, without getting killed myself. You really want to be mean, bring Stagger Storm or Voltaic Tempest. Shock and Stun stop me far more easily than Freeze.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 12:35
#40
@ Eldibs
You haven't bumped into a guardian named Lewiss yet then ;)
(that is my IGN btw, just incase you wondering) :P
mer, 09/21/2011 - 12:46
#41
@ Eldibs I use VT and SMB :D
@ Eldibs
I use VT and SMB :D I'm debating about stagger storm since I debate exactly how scary stun is... but no matter what guns of course > bombs. But so is intelligence, I've stood outside a base on a certain map trying to stop people from getting to their own point 1, and instead of going around and sneaking up on me for an easy kill since I'm so weak, they stood there. Some tried to shoot at me but they usually take a few minutes to kill me like that.
(not that I play perfectly either, I'm not insulting those people cuz I do stupid things too :3)
mer, 09/21/2011 - 14:11
#42
Stun scares me far more than
Stun scares me far more than Freeze. When I'm frozen, all I have to do is place my cursor at the approaching enemies, and start my Dread Venom Striker's combo the moment they start swinging. When they hit me, I become unfrozen, turn around, and start hitting them. You wouldn't believe how often that works. With Stun, all my swings are super slow and easy to interrupt, and I can't keep up with the enemy's movement. They can just dodge my slow first swing, kite around, and hit me in the side. And of course we all do horrible things from time to time. I once charged the same point three times, only to get immediately killed all three times by the same guy.
@randomthing
I should hope you can beat me now, since I just told you how. And if thats not enough, try the direction changing trick with the Gran Faust or Divine Avenger combo. That gets me far more often than I'd like. Of course, I don't carry just Gran Faust. You should also be prepared for Dread Venom Striker and Barbarous Thorn Blade, along with my aforementioned Argent Peacemaker (to stop you from charging your bomb). Just be warned that I will switch between the three swords frequently and often for no reason other than whim. I'll keep an eye out for you when I play. My IGN is the same as my forum name. Just remember my advice on beating me.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 15:05
#43
it's hard to organize this in
it's hard to organize this in a pubbie, but if you freeze two or more people and you don't kill them, you've effectively taken them out of the game.
too bad many people don't know this and rush into a group i've just frozen hoping for free killz.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 18:20
#44
See, now that's using your
See, now that's using your brain, john1111. One cookie for you.
mer, 09/21/2011 - 18:27
#45
How to counter them?get dark
How to counter them?get dark thorn blade or grand flourish or waterer.use recon.when u approach a faust user get the shield status effect on him.get behind him and spam him on the back.I don't have a dark thorn blade but I seen people use it on my team.guardian shield might work but recon best.
Oh while you going around him get invisible forgot to add that.all I can say to counter these overpowered weapons.
mar, 01/17/2012 - 23:50
#46
I think a way to stop the
I think a way to stop the huge amount of power that these swords have would be to have some games have colored wild monsters. this way there wouldn't be as much one on one, so taking advantage would be a lot harder. I guess if we had all the lockdowns like this it would be too close to clockworks, but iff we had just a couple it would work out fine
mar, 01/17/2012 - 23:57
#47
What...
What... Why... how...
the thread is dead. Let it die in peace...
As for the actual topic, I wear snarby armor so Gran Fausts just tickle slightly. Skolver Stabby Standard is what hurts me.
mer, 01/18/2012 - 03:13
#48
Oh doh, the pointlessness,
Oh doh, the pointlessness, why.
Necroposting...
I played a game once, 5v5.
I was the only one without a Gran Faust or Divine avenger.
In every game at least half of the people use that as their only weapon and two shot people, even if they're playing a class with a sword debuff and I have the right armor against it. This line needs some sort of pvp nerf.