Spiral Knights - New Weapon types (Staff, Spear, rifle)

New Weapon types (Staff, Spear, rifle)

24 replies [Last post]

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 14:21

J_A_S

Legacy Username

Okay, look. I like the weapons and all.....but 3 types tends to be dull. So, i thought of 3 new weapon types and will be explaining them with as much detail that i crammed into my head throughout my adventures through the spiral.
First off you have a few questions to my weapon choices.....now i explain:
Q:Staff? why? were knights for gods sake.
A:well ya see, knights of the middle ages (yeah im being realistic, sue me) had no bombs or handguns(though if they did, it would have been much more awesome....and painful). So, why cant we have staves?
Q: whats wrong with the weapons now? you hate them or something?
A: no. I arm myself with a sword(for kickin butt) and handgun(for pesky switches[ya know we hate those]). Bombs are good for group control. These are just designed for players who wanna play differently.
Now, all these weapons are two-handed, meaning no shield (dont be saying WTF yet). X (which is used to defend with shields), instead activated some ability based on the weapon.
Okay....let begin

STAFF:
staves are based on magic and act like a weapon-item. They are the hardest to use (due to the very weird way of controlling them) and take time to master. They have 3 slots, each acting as an item(healing packs, restore packs[the blue thingies that remove status effects], status vials) and with 5 ranks (basic, advanced, elite, mega, ultimate), and two sizes (shot and aoe[bout 3-5 players long, which is them standing shoulder to shoulder]). here is a chart:
Healing status effect
Basic | half bar | 2 sec long
Advanced| 1 bar | 4 sec long
Elite | 1 and half bars | 6 sec long
Mega |2 bars | 8 sec long
Ultimate |2 and half bars | 10 sec long
The only item they dont copy would be the mecha kit. Why? cuz it my idea and i havent decided yet, thats why!
Now they have something. this "something" is called a COOLDOWN (magical word). Dont think its something like a 5 sec cooldown for an ultimate item (cuz thats crazy). The cooldowns are 30-180 seconds long (or half a minute-3 minutes long), and the healing ones tend to be around a minute or 2.
The X button is used to swap the "spells" that the spells have equipped. they cycle to the next one(1 goes to 2, 2 goes to 3, 3 goes to 1)in the order and it would probably be shown between the health canister and "equipped weapon" circles, right above the health bar(i think thats a pad pun cuz the health bar is made of bars...).
Q:why is it that ultimate for status effect is so long?
A: if its ultimate, then its cooldwon is about 2 and a half to 3 minutes long.
Q: 3 minutes max cooldown? isnt that a bit much?
A: not really. the staff acts as a permenant "item" that doesnt go away. it wouldnt be fair if it had 2 minute max cooldown. Just be happy it isnt 5 minutes cuz i thought that.
By the way, there is no charge, it just fires the shot(though if all 3 are on cooldwon, youll swing it, doing very crappy[dont know yet] dmg)

SPEAR:
Think of it as a sword with better damge. you're asking me, "cant spears have the ability to be able to be held in one hand?" well yeah, but these are special (dont ask me that either).
Now the X button fires the spear after a few seconds, dealing handgun damage from a handgun distance. HOWEVER, you have 20 spears per level, so dont think you can just throw lke a madman. If you run out of extra spears, you have to wait till the next level to get a replenish. The charge tends to be spin attacks(like calibur) but you dont move (better than calibur, as some people tend to post that the move thing screws the swing) and its two roundabouts. The combo is 5-7 (its made for damage) and they tend to have a good speed, making them great if you like to hurt up close.
Q: If i dont use all my extra spears, do i get to add those to my total on the next floor?
A: no. thats just...why ask that? I even said you have 20 a level. no freebies
Q:Do you lose a spear if you use them to hit switches? If no, how do you lose them?
A:um...yeah. Spears a spear. Sorry

RIFLE:
When "whoever-made-us" (I aint saying god cuz i dont wanna be a piece of crap.) made man, he never though they would make this game.....or the rifle. Rifles have the following changes then guns:
PROS:
-longer range
-higher damage
-charge acts different (see below)
-cooler military-ish look(though some people wouldnt care)
CONS:
-less combo (tends to be 1-2 then 2-3[or whatever the max was])
-"stand-still" reload and firing(this is always......and it sucks)
(before i go on, i should say this is different cuz i was to lazy to change the other two to this kinda format. least im honest)
The X acts a "scope" making the shot deal more damage, but you have to do something called "aim" (suspenseful music [i did this cuz aiming in this game tends to be bad with the moving targets and whatnot]). is it worth it.....yes.
Charging acts after the combo (and you still holding the button). They are: "rapid shot"(which fires a bonus shot), "explosive shot" (what do you thnk?), "Spread shot" (fires 3-4 shots in an arc), or "piercing shot" (fires a shot that goes through foes....and blocks). you can change the shot (huh?) by tapping the X button (not holding) and each one has 2 types of special shot.
Q:Do rifles truly have a cooler military-ish look?
A:well, they should. Thats my opinion.
Q:If we equip a rifle, do handguns become obsolete?
A:No. Handguns will still become a choice since they use speed instead of strength. Its the players choice for what to pick. Also, no defending with a rifle.

Okay...i believe thats it (thank god too. this was way to long). Tell me your honest opinions and say what you wish.

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 14:34

Metaknight

uhhh i dont mean to pee pee

uhhh i dont mean to pee pee on your parade but there is no way they would do this. the weapon system is pretty darn straightforward and they would not benefit from adding THREE new convoluted weapon types to the game. keep it simple.

im not saying one (maybe two, but thats pushing it) new weapon class would be a bad idea, i just think yours are too complicated.

I think of your classes, a spear or lance class would work best. something with a stabbing thrust instead of a swords swipe. it could be fairly fast, long range, but a narrower width range (since its not a slash). however the charge attacks, status effects, etcs would likely be not much different from the existing classes. it would suck at handling mobs though. :(

maybe if you could simplify your concepts it might be something more realistic to add to the game. but you have to consider how much work it would be to add these new types of mechanisms, how it would impact players using the original weapon types, and ultimately what value it brings to the game for the developers investment.

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 14:52

Jalok

I would like them to add a

I would like them to add a disk as a weapon. I know this game is related to the Zelda series. You know how Zelda has a boomerang? Well instead of the spiral knights having boomerangs, it would make a lot sense to have a disk. Since the theme (i think) is more of a bionic steam-punk fantasy type of game. (The spirals remind me of Matoran from Bionicle or something =D )

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 14:59

Tumble

Legacy Username

Great idea with the disk

Great idea with the disk Matoro, that's totally something I would use.

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 15:05

Metaknight

how would that work

how would that work exactly?

maybe something like a mace would work well, something that you swing around you in a full circle. it would be fairly slow (makes you spin around completely every time) and maybe slightly weaker than other weapons. charge attacks could be more of a throw to hit a single enemy/small group rather than the siwng (just to make it different from the weapons whose charge attack is circular -- which might just be the calibur series lol)

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 17:09

Jalok

How the disks would work...

Well, the disk is a range weapon. But it could be a medium-long ranged weapon. You know how the guns are long range? Well the disks could be medium-long range, but has the damage between a gun and a sword. There could be some disks that could do certain effects to enemies, like make the enemies head grow large till it explodes, or have them get sucked in a vortex, or simply having a chain reaction against other enemies surrounding your target.

Since it is a disk of course, you don't have the ability to rapidly throw disks (Like u could with a gun). You have to wait till the disk comes back to you, or until you press the attack button again, so the disk can come back to you that way if you don't want the disk to hit multiple foes.

And maybe to add to that, you could replace your shield with a disk (So you could have 3 weapon slots! WOOT!). The only disadvantage to that is the defense so bad, that it will only take 1 or 2 hits till your shield barrier breaks. That means you have to be a pro player and know when to run out of the way! =D

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 17:41

IronianPage

Legacy Username

I'm diggin' the spear idea,

I'm diggin' the spear idea, personally. I see it as a long reaching weapon with damage between gun and sword. It would take a bit of a tactic shift since it would mostly attack with stabbing. Maybe they could have some sort of slight knockback effect behind them? I'm not sure about that, but it'd add a neat mechanic. As for charge attacks.. well, spears are stabby weapons, so I can see a move vaguely like Divine Avenger's with only one point and less OP. Also, going a bit more martial art-ish, I see a twirly sort of move that goes forward in a straight line a step or two, followed by a big lunge that moves the character and the in-range enemies a large distance forward. In other words, I imagine the spear as a frontal assault sort of weapon that's all about linear distance. Frankly, its playing style seems a whole lot different from the current three-- different enough that I actually believe it could be a fourth type.

Tue, 04/12/2011 - 18:44

Metaknight

i forgot to mention in my

i forgot to mention in my tweak that it wouldnt be a throwing spear. the idea of limited ammo on any equipped weapon sucks (sorry dude). save that for consumables like potions. if you want to add new classes of consumables, thats a different story. but on a weapon that takes up a valued weapon slot? no way jose.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 08:51

Merethif

No new categories are needed imo

I strongly believe that shields are key and inseparable part of combat system in Spiral Knights. I don't see place for "two-handed weapons" in this game.

Weapon category that is called "SWORDS" actually include all melee weapons that are used to whack, stab, hack or slash your enemies. So far we already have not only european medieval swords (Calibur), katanas (Fireburst Brandish) or sabers (Cutter) but also axes (Heavy Hatchet), hammer (Thwack Hammer), staff (Wrench Wand), pickaxes (Beast Basher) and even shovels (Slime Slasher). In my opinion any melee weapon that will be added (like clubs, baseball bats, spears, halberds and such) falls into "SWORDS" category - there's no need to create new category. Different swords could have different abilities like 360 degree attacks and such but they still fall into "SWORDS" category as long as they are hand held, melee weapons.
I know that name "swords" is misleading especially in case of players who are used to D&D ripoff MMO where every melee weapon has its own category.

Likewise weapon category that is called "HANDGUNS" include all projectile-firing weapons - be it pistol (Pummel Gun), machine gun (Needle Shot), missile launcher (Callahan), revolver (Antigua) or even paintball marker (Alchemer ;-D). In my opinion any projectile-firing weapon that will be added (like shotgun, crossbow or flamethrower) falls into "HANDGUNS" category - there's no need to create new category.

Sidenotes:
1. Characters are knights but knights are not exclusive for medieval theme. Jedi Knights are knights but they're not medieval.
2. Cooler look? Guns in Spiral Knights have super cool look so far and I really don't get your point here.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 09:04

Metaknight

even though spear looking

even though spear looking weapons could fall under the broader SWORDS category, the spears/lances i suggested i would see as having a different attack style (thrust in a single direction) vs what the current SWORDS category is (they all slash in an arc, do they not? charged attacks aside..).

so to me they wouldnt quite fall under the same category. considering that the strategy for use would be different, i would think it would belong in its own category. lances, spears, not sure whatother weapons would fit the profile but you get the idea. same thing for the disks/boomerang idea.

so, yes, all SWORDS are not necessarily swords in this game, but they all have the same general attack behavior. thats the difference here with the new weapon ideas. they do not, so they are a class of their own. i'm not asking for a spear that you swipe with, or that shoots a projectile, or whatever else is clearly just a reskinning of the same sword/gun behavior.

im not saying they actually NEED new weapon categories either. im taking an initially (no offense) bad idea and trying to make it better / more realistic for the developers to consider.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:10

#10

J_A_S

Legacy Username

yeah um.....

I finally get why the weapons are so confusing (thank you merethif). anyway, Disk type weapons would be good idea, but not separatre category. svre my idea...focus onto other stuff

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 16:00

#11

IronianPage

Legacy Username

Yeah, I can still see

Yeah, I can still see two-handed weapons. You say taking the shield out is taking an integral part of defense? Taking non-charged attacks out is taking an integral part of offense, and it still works in bombs. No-one ever said that you need to use certain weapon types... I've used a bomb once in my entire time with this game, and I'm not too interested in using it again. The point is that weapons which take certain things away can compensate with their unique features. The bombs are again the example: they leave you vulnerable because you can't attack normally, but they have a large area of effect, which allows you to cause more pain to the enemies. With the spears and such-- I'll just call 'em polearms-- you lose defense instead. The answer might be that you cause more knockback with each hit. I stated that I see polearms as being a weapon all about a strong offense that's all about linear distance. That applies to this too: it could cause knockback to compensate for the lack of shield, its charge attacks could do a lot of forward lunging, and so on. What I want to see is a weapon that is specialized in the fact that it provides a big frontal offense, while leaving you fairly open on either side. It'd be amazingly good at, say, one of the many block-blockades in the clockworks. It's perfect for hallways, and is horrible if you're surrounded, and that's a mechanic I'd gladly use. It's not like you can't switch to another weapon at any time, after all.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 17:20

#12

Metaknight

personally, i dont see the

personally, i dont see the need for the spear/lance idea to be two-handed, i didnt even catch that in the original post. lunge with the spear in the right hand, hold shield in left, or vice versa, whatever handed our characters are.

however i dont have a problem with the concept of sacrificing your shield for brutal, large weapons (of any weapon class). unless there is some part of the game you cant pass without shields, it shouldnt be an issue. its the players choice to deal with the cons of that equipment.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 17:22

#13

J_A_S

Legacy Username

Please stop

Dont write in this anymore....i say screw this topic.....from here on out....its about something else

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 17:26

#14

Metaknight

sorry dude your thread has

sorry dude your thread has been hijacked ;)

you can move on but you dont have to make us!

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 17:38

#15

J_A_S

Legacy Username

Works for me

Still gonna be posting in this to see whats goin on....do what you wish

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 06:32

#16

IronianPage

Legacy Username

*cannot stop vouching for

*cannot stop vouching for this*

I have been entertaining the possibility that this polearm thing gets implemented, so I've been contemplating some of the mechanics. Building upon what I've defined so far until someone makes something further refined. So consider that it's gonna be two-handed, give a fair amount of knockback and some large-ish lunging in the later portion of the combo. What exactly should the combo and damage be? I'm considering a few renditions: the first could be another two-hitter with yet heavier damage than the typical sword, but distributed into both normal and piercing. I have the vague suspicion that this could be OP in the hands of a skilled Magn-- err, player, but if it was distributed as both normal and piercing damage, they would be far less likely to hold a permanent spot as "teh best weponz" thanks to Jellies and such. The second configuration could be midway between a heavy and medium sword while keeping three hits. In this case, I'd hazard a guess that since you wouldn't be able to block with it out the extra damage could be justified... well, hopefully. I'm no dev, and this stuff's what they're paid for, so I'm content with just laying a framework that realistically isn't THAT likely to get added, but could be with fair ease. And now some people looking here might be wondering where the fast version is! The simple fact from my standpoint is that spears don't get a fast/weak version, nor do they particularly need them. If they were implemented with all the crazy lunging I'm talking about, it'd be more a speedhack than anything for traversing those long paths a bit faster :P

At any rate, sorry if I'm blocking out the latest n' greatest thread, but please note the initial statement of this post. I just cannot allow this to drift without a justified reason to let it go! And none of that "we don't NEED a weapon type! D:" karp!

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 06:46

#17

Metaknight

you know what else might be

you know what else might be interesting? if the spear/lance/polearm was double sided, with a short blade/whatever on the back end, and that when you attack there is a slight recoiling of the weapon behind you. this way you could strike enemies in front at a medium distance, and an enemy behind you at a short distance. the charge attacks could be the only ones that actually lunge your character, or say, the 2nd attack of a combo. but your first, uncharged attacked could have potential to strike in front and behind you.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 07:49

#18

WordPlay

Legacy Username

Keep the old and add a new one.

Keep the old weapons and just give us a staff thats only good for healing/mending. Make it like the gun except with a cast time.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:23

#19

IronianPage

Legacy Username

I had much the same idea,

I had much the same idea, djbiznatch. I can see a straight-off blade version, and since we got tech, a motorized sort of thing that makes a small knockback instead. Come to think of it, I can imagine a charge with a "motorized polearm" being like turning the motor to 11 and getting blasted forward a ways, dragged behind it. That'd be hilarious and awesome XD

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:14

#20

Crazywave

how about some medieval weapons like....

how about some medieval weapons like.... crossbow, bows, mace, Axes, Javelins, hammers yea that will be cool but above all more types of swords

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 21:16

#21

IronianPage

Legacy Username

Agreed, we need more than a

Agreed, we need more than a ranged blade, a heavy hitter, a regular Legend of Zelda emulator, and a fly-away-and-get-riddled-with-holes-fast spammer. They're all pretty novel ideas, and there's plenty of renditions, but I still want more awesome in my armory.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 04:15

#22

MillParkTree

Legacy Username

3 things

We need 3 things

1. Lance
-Longer reach than swords but only able to stab forward at one mob (bad for crowd control, good for bosses)
-The charge attack should have you lunge forward knocking back enemies in a large path
2. Proximity mines
-Same as bomb but only detonate when an enemy walks into their blast radius
-Smaller blast radius for these
3. Shotguns
-Short range gun with massive spread and knock back.
-SLOW

These really all fit into the existing Sword, Handguns, Bombs categories, but add new combat mechanics.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 06:02

#23

IronianPage

Legacy Username

Proximity mines seem like

Proximity mines seem like they'd be a tad OP if used well... I dunno, maybe that's just me, but y'know, I think if it's gonna be implemented there would need to be more drawbacks to prevent it being an upgrade more than an alternate. I think if it's got a smaller radius, and only detonates at an enemy in the radius, then it should cause some light damage to you as well. Either that or make a more constricting limit on how many mines can be set. of course there'd be a limit, but it would be pretty tight if there was no other negative aside from a smaller blast.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 08:45

#24

MillParkTree

Legacy Username

Lasers

Hmmm you're right. People could just cover an area with mines before boss battles that way.

Maybe limit it to a maximum of two bombs out at the same time per player.

Also to add to the list of suggested weapons

4. LASORZ!!!!
-Long range sustained beam of energy
-Fires for a long duration before having to reload
-Can't move while reloading

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New Weapon types (Staff, Spear, rifle)