The game is too easy now (Support this thread if you agree)
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 21:36
While there has already been a lot of talk about it, no one has actually made an actual topic on it, so I'll make it official and make one.
Wolvers and Zombies are a joke, watching an alpha wolver bite pass me with a simple side-step is just sad, I could walk through a crowd of zombies without worrying about getting hit, and most other enemies are attacks are so slow I could take a washroom break and comeback without worrying about dying, Honestly, the only enemy that may have needed a nerf is the Retrode's beam attack, and even that has been taken too far I think. If anything the game needed HARDER enemies, not easier ones.
I'm actually going to stop playing SK for now cause its just so BORING now, been good at it has gone from been like saying "I'm good at playing Chess" to "I'm good at Tic-Tac-Toe", I demand that OOO revert most of the enemy changes that they made to what they were before the latest patch and to do it FAST.
BRING BACK THE CHALLENGE AND INTENSITY THE GAME HAD
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 21:44
#2
[copypastan]
Just to quote what I said in another thread:
Well, there's no denying that this patch was cool in some ways, but I think the bulk of it could be summed up in the following phrase:
"we'll give you guys a sec to mow us down before we get to do anything, k?"
Zombies and Retrodes did have that annoying quality about their cat scratch attacks (i.e. their attack range was larger than was actually able to be perceived), and I guess that it did need a little nerfing, but freezing attack direction AND slowing down their attack speed all at once was overkill, I think, and it probably should have been one or the other, and I would have just stuck with freezing the attack direction, since that attack wasn't all that fast to begin with. Plus, it just looks ridiculous when slowed down like that.
Speaking of which, this was totally unnecessary for Wolvers (as if they couldn't be less of a threat than they once were), maybe except for the Alpha Wolvers, since their attacks had the nasty tendency to catch up with you no matter where you ran.
Now, I hadn't encountered any Gremlins since the patch, but increasing their dodge cooldown to four seconds also sounds like overkill.
Also, that whole thing where the enemies just stand there for five minutes when they spawn makes me feel a little insulted.
And why do the bullets from Gun Puppies spawn so far from their mouths? I should hope there's some kind of visual aid to accompany this change in spawn point on high-quality graffix, at the very least.
In short: Monsters are idiots now, and some other changes kinda ruined stuff.
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 21:48
#3
@Purty
I've been there twice
@Purty
I've been there twice before and if the zombies are anything like they are now in regular FSC I could probably walk right through SL FSC too, I'm a veteran player and know what I'm talking about, so have something better then a 5 word post before you post a retort next time.
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 21:50
#4
supported ^^
supported ^^
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 22:04
#5
The only things I was pleased
The only things I was pleased with that I felt needed to be fixed was the retrodes attacking before you even realized they spawned, and (I haven't actually checked this but the patch says it's fixed) alpha wolvers warping mid assault right in front of you. I've always kinda feared them, as they randomly decide when they will follow you throughout their assault, warping whenever they please whenever any of your teammates feel like pissing them off.
Everything else is kinda sad. The gremlin dodge thing laughable. After the first dodge, the gremlin healers just kinda stand there if they don't have a target to heal sometimes. I think at least they should be able to dodge all the time.
Overall, yea, this is ez-mode patch, and I am mostly displeased.
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 22:32
#6
Hi guiez my name is the
Hi guiez my name is the Spiral Hipster and I am unique. I will be using the MOST UNIQUE GEAR LIKE IRON SLUG AND WILD HUNTING BLADE AND PLEHING AROUND FSC.
IT WILL BE FUN.
+1 game is too ez.
(...
jeu, 01/05/2012 - 23:01
#7
Late
The game has been becoming easier patch after patch. Ian probably misses the days in which he had a say in difficulty.
And I swear Shadow Lairs used to be way harder and got hit by the nerfhammer.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 00:17
#8
I support this. Right before
I support this. Right before I stopped playing a few months back monsters were nerfed and now again? Its not going to make me stop playing or anything, but I think its a bit much. The only things I can kinda support with these two nerfs are quicksilvers (Because seriously on T3 they used to be ridiculous), and the retrode beam (Sometimes it would hit you from offscreen even before seeing the graphic).
Everything else is just going too far.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 00:44
#9
Lamprophony +1s this.
Lamprophony +1s this.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 01:26
#10
Next updates
Am I the only one who thinks these changes will lead to another boss stratum and some rare monster additions? They already added drones as a different element to the game. Rare monsters would be that extra level of difficulty.
I would like to see some potential status mini sections in tier 2 like Bone Briar Barrage in tier 3.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 01:56
#11
I'm actually going to stop
I'm actually going to stop playing SK for now cause its just so BORING now, been good at it has gone from been like saying "I'm good at playing Chess" to "I'm good at Tic-Tac-Toe", I demand that OOO revert most of the enemy changes that they made to what they were before the latest patch and to do it FAST.
Did you seriously compare being good at Spiral Knights to being good at chess? The game was already easy, whilst I wouldn't dispute that it needn't be made easier acting as if the most challenging game has suddenly lost it's fangs is crazy. A far better comparison is it's gone from being good at tic-tac-toe to being good at rock-paper-scissors.
Anyhow the patch really isn't that bad. They removed the legitimately cheap things that were nothing but the source of artificial difficulty like the 'autotarget' on zombies and retrodes and alphas teleporting mid-attack and unfortunately kept going and further nerfed things past what was required, such as making zombies and retrodes mini-lumbers and removing the alphas ability to track players when attacking. Even so it's not exactly something that cannot be fixed easily enough, make another update giving zombies and retrodes their speed back with increase damage, and give wolvers their tracking ability back.
Honestly this reminds me of people complaining about the obnoxious hitboxes in the older Monster Hunter games being fixed, which were almost entirely the source of the game's artifical "challenge" that so many adored it for. People complained non-stop about the games being easier, defending bad design choices and completely disregarding that despite the fake difficulty being removed the games were in many regards getting harder but other factors were preventing this from being apparent (monsters doing less damage, monster stamina, ect). Fast forward to Tri G on the 3DS; it has the tightest hitboxes in the series, and it's also arguably the hardest, and unlike its predecessors it's legitmiately challenging and consequently rewarding for it, not hard because Plesioth can hipcheck you from the other side of the map.
tl;dr moral of the story: Artificial difficulty =/= Legitimate challenge and removing the former makes room to actually build on the latter. That doesn't mean Three Rings will mind you, but one can hold out hope.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 03:20
#12
If your game is too easy,
If your game is too easy, you're playing it wrong. Go for speed / risk / fun, if you don't find anything else any more for now.
Artificial difficulty =/= Legitimate challenge and removing the former makes room to actually build on the latter.
That's what I'm hoping for, too :D
With this patch, many unfair / imbalanced situations were removed from the game... there's not many things left that can keep us from playing "kamikaze-style" smoothly with a good team now. Without such interruptions as... random sudden death of the full HP crowd-control guy due to alpha wolvers teleporting in mid attack or the unexpected appearance of 6 retrodes + 2 cowardly gremlin menders that hide between them and resurrect each others / dodge constantly in a beast arena. Only a few things to go (e.g. T3 rocked puppies are not all that suitable for places that clearly have been balanced towards normal/random puppies spawning there when you compare it to the difficulty of the rest of the lvl ;)), then they can hopefully open the core or something and raise difficulty there without it inheriting imbalanced situations from T3 that there might become a lot more unfair/frustrating or unsolvable :D
ven, 01/06/2012 - 04:26
#13
No need to worry
I am pretty sure the Game Masters will see all this comments and change everything that ppl didnt like. Also like somebody else says maybe they r introducing new monsters. I really dont understand the whole nerfed thing. Where did u guys get nerfed from. Second i wouldnt mind if they "nerfed" the bosses so i can solo and beat them mor often
ven, 01/06/2012 - 04:43
#14
Agreed.
The puppies bullets
Agreed.
The puppies bullets need to be reverted. Not only were they fine as they were, but the change makes no sense whatsoever; the bullets simply spawn out of nowhere, and it makes bombing them nigh impossible if there's a few nearby aiming at you, and puppy waves in arena are ridiculous now. There's ways to make puppies harder without defying logic; either leave them the way they were, or make an alternate change.
Retrodes could have done without tracking OR had their range shortened to visual distance, but having their attacks shortened, lose tracking, and delay between attacks, respawn waits all bunched together is a joke. When there's a problem, put on one fix, not every possible solution and overkill the monster. Retrodes went from #3 on my scary list to "a lanky scuttlebot". Their beam attacks NEED to have less of a cooldown between the laser and explosions, it's absolutely impossible to get hit by them now.
Zombies are boring. End.
Cooldown between spawn and attacks I don't like because I liked certain rooms having an "ambush" feel, but I understand that, for laggy players.
Gremlin dodge 1~4 seconds? It was absolutely fine the way it was; the whole idea was that gunners weren't meant to deal with them.
Wolvers are a joke. Wolverdaddies went from being scary shieldbreakers to "oops, sidestep, lol".
[b]TL;DR[/b]
Puppies: revert bullet spawnpoints
Retrodes: change range OR tracking, not everything.
Zombies: boring.
CD between spawn/attack bad, but understandable
Gremlines: don't need 4sec CD
Wolvers: need to be able to track again
ven, 01/06/2012 - 04:47
#15
+1. Seriously, does anyone
+1. Seriously, does anyone like playing FIFA on easy?
ven, 01/06/2012 - 05:11
#16
+1 Its boring now, why the
+1
Its boring now, why the hell we all have to suffer for some noobs/wussies who had problem with zombies?
Again players are punished becouse of other players stupiditiy.
Besides its natural that some ppl are better at playing and some of them it takes longer to get that skill. Its natural. And this whole "equal chances" policy or making things easier is just [horsefeathers].
Its natrual that in progress more and more players will reach final tier 3 and what? Instead of adding new content to dont keep those bored T3 in non-stop grind fest they do wat? Making grinding even more boring by nerfing zombies??
Or maybe its OOO play to force people to buy more CE for real $$$?? Firstly, they nerfed JK, allowing masses to get Antiguas and Sealed Swords easy, why? To cut out profits of T2 players who were good at JK grinding. This way they made them earn less (since JK token items are selling worse now since its easy) and in order to gain profit they have to play longer or buy CE for $$$.
And now? They just nerfed FSC, the playground of T3 players, source of Blackened Crest and FoVs, the big source of income for T3 players. Now when its easier to do FSC runs, more ppl will get it and profits will drop. Thank you OOO, another step to make now T3 players getting less profits and forcing them slowly to have buy CE for $$$ to earn anything?
This update insults me. Its like OOO things we are just bunch of idiots. Its pathetic.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 05:15
#17
+1
You know which era I liked the most? The one where the flame puppies and gremlins could shoot fire and it bounced off the walls indefinitely.. even in T1 and 2.
And then they nerfed ALL fire beams to a joke D;
Oh well.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 05:35
#18
+1
i agree that almost half enemie are easy to kill
ven, 01/06/2012 - 06:00
#19
-1
It just seems so easy now because we're all used to the monster's cheating. Seriously it was pretty cheap with their quick swipes, teleport in from nowhere instant attacks, and such.
It's not that I ever had a problem with the difficulty of FSC, I can solo it without any problems. But it was frustrating getting hit by cheap shots one too many times even though I know I'm going to win. I can't understand why you're all claiming you're bored now. Is it because you're right on the edge of winning/losing so it's exciting? If you know you're going to win all the time pre-patch, yet think it's boring now post-patch because it's too easy....why don't you use crappier gear?
But fear not, I have a theory why OOO made the monsters more fair. I kept thinking why would OOO make it easier? More players losing means more CE used + less crowns given out = more profit for OOO. But then it occurred to me, how would they make the monsters harder for T4? They're already practically cheating pre-patch. Yep, I think they'll probably make the T4 monsters how they were in the pre-patch.
Oh and if you're still bitter about the patch, I don't think they fixed the trojans yet. Their sword bash is super long past the animation and has a huge hit radius. I also think the Slag Guards still damage you when you're too close behind them when they charge.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 06:06
#20
There's a clear difference
There's a clear difference between cheap/cheating monsters, and difficult monsters. Retrodes could attack beyond their visible range = that's cheating.
They reduced the range to what's visible, so now they're fair.
Some people lag when monsters spawn, so ambushers will always get a hit on them, which is cheap/cheating damage. Remove that, the monsters are fair for lagging.
But to take away their tracking, reduce their range, increase CD between lasers and explosions, implement a CD between spawn and attacks and reduce CD between attacks all at once? Now they're too easy.
Wolvers could teleport mid-combo? Cheap. Remove that and they're fair.
But take away their tracking? Now you simply sidestep and they bite right past you. There's no ninja running or dodging anymore, you just...step past and you auto-win everytime. Wolverpacks are a joke.
Now they're too easy.
People are complaining about them being boring not because they changed the mobs, but becasue they changed SO MUCH at once, they totally overkilled the nerf. It's one thing to make them fairer, it's another to make it completely imba in our favour.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 07:14
#21
I like that they fixed the
I like that they fixed the cheap things.
However, I think a few things went to far. The time between spawn and attack is now TOO long. A wave ends in an arena and I can clear at least 1 enemy from the next before they start moving. Go to something between what it is now and before. Alpha Wolver tracking should come back, as it made them tough, but still easily manageable. Obviously they shouldn't be able to attack and burrow at the same time so that is good. Zombies and Retrodes should get their attack speed back, but otherwise are fine.
Gremlins should probably have their dodge time reduced to 2sec. So, higher than before, but not 4x.
I haven't seen the gun puppies yet (been seeing flame puppies) and if the bullets spawn outside of the mouth it doesn't make much sense.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 07:42
#22
+1
I'm guessing that someone from their new owners (SEGA) came to try the game out, OOO gave them all 5* gear and sent them out in T3. They failed miserably, raged about how the game was too hard, and OOO made this patch to appease their new owners.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:14
#23
+1
I liked the occasional risk of outright death and dismemberment from instant spawns, spinning zombies, etc. A good player could still outrun the swipes, or dodge them. Now, I recognize WHEN I MAKE A MISTAKE and don't get punished for it. That's not kosher in T3 - those hits should hurt because I deserve it. I mean, hell, what's the penalty for death in Spiral Knights? Some CE? Boo hoo. It's not like OOO comes into my kitchen and kicks my dog and takes my ballpoints.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:20
#24
I'd say a +0.5
Some of the mobs were broken and needed a quick fix, but it seems Three Rings did a little bit of overkill on this update.
My opinion is 50/50 here. Yeah they fixed the problems, but they overdid it a bit.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:32
#25
+1 to Echoez
This is what I'm talking, legitimate difficulty over artificial cheap shots. That said, I think messing with the speed and range of trodes and zombies was unnecessary, same with locking attack direction at the outset of the charge. Attack direction should lock once the attack starts- so for single-strike attacks like trodes and zombies, there should be no difference. But I do agree it was a little cheap for Alphas to track you mid combo.
On a side note, how does one become 'good' at rock-scissors-paper? Not sure your comparison works either. =P
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:32
#26
I agree but..
I agree that the game was become somewhat a little bit easy but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is a setup from something big - a major update? Content Update? Maybe?
I've been around the corner a couple of times and I think we should milk this for as long as we can, as hard as we can because the next update they might introduce a game changer like T4 monsters or mini bosses that will make us bleed red bars all over the clockworks.
Not to high-jack the thread but I keep seeing:
Gremlin Killakan -> homing missles, 4-point lazer gaze, unblockable melee attack (can't be solo'ed safely)
Devilite Balrog -> 360-degree fire pillar attack (think big-horned slime spike attack), leap attack, breath of fire, tub-load of hp and def
Bone Dragon -> can't be killed but randomly strafes graveyards with a hard-hitting breath attack
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:35
#27
-_-
More complaining? You guys are impossible to please.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 08:58
#28
I like to call FSC autistic
I like to call FSC autistic tortoise citadel now.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 09:03
#29
What's next?
Yes they were unfair/bugged before, but you'd expect some other buff to compensate. That's what they did wrong.
So everyone please don't complain about devilites now. I can't stop to think about a new patch that removes their ability to throw stuff for a melee slap.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 09:18
#30
This is one of the updates
This is one of the updates that should had been tested in the tests servers.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 09:22
#31
"- a major update? Content
"- a major update? Content Update? Maybe?" Buahahaha xD
ven, 01/06/2012 - 09:23
#32
word of wisdom
if it's not broken, don't fix it.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 10:09
#33
I like to call FSC autistic
I like to call FSC autistic tortoise citadel now.
This has to be one of the strangest things posted on the forum, which is really quite a phenomenal achievement.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 10:19
#34
I believe it fits rather well
I believe it fits rather well for how badly they nerfed zombies.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 10:24
#35
Well I've never seen an
Well I've never seen an autistic toroise, but I shall take your word for it.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 11:29
#36
The only thing I didn't like
The only thing I didn't like about zombies was a chance of them immobilizing you. I never found out if this was a bug or a feature (OMG KNIGHT SCARRED FREEZE IN FEAR). Otherwise no problem with them...
I'm also really sad that they nerfed the Retrodes. I LOVED running around them with my Alchemer, even if they made it hard with a T3 Mender in the middle of the pack.
Look, I've been playing SK for over a year and I SUCK. I finally achieved my Dauntless Delver achievement two weeks ago. Don't make it so easy to get that achievement now :( Don't make this game so ESSY!
Oh well, now if I want a challenge I have to buy a Shadow Key... sneaky OOO, sneaky! :(
ven, 01/06/2012 - 12:01
#37
+1
I don't like how locking attack target of wolvers has been removed. I've just soloed some T3 Beast Levels (including Wolver Den) and there's HUGE difference. I haven't been hit ONCE in whole Wolver Den, and that without much effort either.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 12:22
#38
I'd rather have cheap enemies
I'd rather have cheap enemies then easy enemies, victory feels hollow when you don't have to put any effort into it, if anything OOO is risking losing support from those players who have been around the longest and have got good at the game.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 12:46
#39
BAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
BAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
SOMEONE REMOVED THE IMAGINARY CHALLENGE
BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
And seriously, i hope you won't lose even a single pip in fights with those monsters as i'll laugh behind your back everytime you do. I'll roll on the floor laughing if you lose your life to one of them.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 13:02
#40
+1 and -1
More complaining? You guys are impossible to please.
Like in every new patch...
Anyway I'm neutral what considers this:
Pro
-I'm happy it's easier, so the chances to spend less me/ce are high
-Some flaws were fixed like the Zombie swipe attack or Wolvers don't teleport randomly
Contra:
-The game starts to get more boring with the time (because it's easier)
-Some stuff shouldn't need a fix like the time they need to move after spawning or the dodge of the gremlins (why 4sec !? 2 sec would be enough...)
Anyway, who knows, maybe to access Tier 4 you must past Tier 3
Because I don't believe they will add a 6* or 7* weapons/armours else here will be world war 3 in the forums that even SL becomes easier.
Anyway, I just enjoy to kill some Monsters and to collect stuff before Tier 4 etc will be introduced.
P.S.
But I believe the game became to us to easy because we're used to the flaws the opponents had, but they were also complains how unfair those flaws are...and now you complain about....*augh*...okay my head hurts now...I will do some Vana before he gets nerfed
ven, 01/06/2012 - 13:49
#41
Ok I haven't played at all
Ok I haven't played at all since the new patch, 1) because there is litterally NO new content and probably never will be until 2 more months. 2)Holiday sales are over, Already bought about 5k CE and have enough 5* already. 3)If I solo FSC within an hour when I log on today, and I only have to fight mandatory battles to open a gate, then I'm sorry OOO, but I'm going back to drawing and playing Skyrim. Your game has been made into something too easy.
However this is only going to be confirmed AFTER I go and Solo FSC right now. Heck I'll solo a Shadow lair. Why not?
ven, 01/06/2012 - 14:04
#42
As a 6 month player...
I agree with the head topic: it has become easier. Crafting a glacius 4 months ago before the buff, and now going into FSC with slower slags, it's all too convenient with its wide and long range (not to say I don't like it of course). But, I have faith in OOO that there will be new content, interesting buffs on items like the troikas, and [hopefully] the prices of these featured items decreasing in the future seeing this isn't the last of them.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:04
#43
Make the nerfs Tier specific & keep them out of T3
Yup I love the new Brandish charge, but give me something worth hitting it with...
OOO needs to go back and make those monster nerfs tier specific so that they do not effect T3.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:25
#44
+/- 1
i do agree that the monsters are to easy, and there isn't the extra *umph* that would make this game enjoyapable anymore. However i do find reasoning with the recent update's turning the monster's into mush, and making it easier for newer players to get past that initial hump of being to hard and newby that they decide to move on.
My personal suggestion is for OOO to have an expansion to cradle, and not have the knights be confined to Haven and the Arcade. Another possible idea is to expand the equipment * system to 10 or 20, this will give player's another goal to reach while also at the same time keeping player's from quitting.
I know from personal experience with MMORPG's, that the lack of map, equipment, boss, and story expansion's can evidently make the whole game wither away and die. So with that said, i can't go without stating that the core at D29 (Depth29) should be opened and the story line should keep going. And with that HARDER monster's and Boss's will come forth making this fun to play once again
-Senferno
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:30
#45
+1 for sure, if for nothing
+1 for sure, if for nothing else than the fact that monsters do nothing after spawning. Any sort of AoE attack (DA, Brandishes, any bomb, Polaris, ect) can clear monster spawns before they even move. The difficulty (or lack thereof) is plainly insulting.
Fixing hitboxes on previously unfair monsters? Absolutely, I support that.
Giving free hits on monsters before they do anything? Absolutely not. Why bother if they won't fight back?
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:42
#46
+1/2
I'll admit, some of the monsters are a bit simple. I think they overdid it with the Nerfing.
Aside from the fact the Zombie's laser actually fires AFTER the animation finishes, I find that they're WAY too slow.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate they're nerfed, I think they just took it a bit far.
I mean, they spawn, then just sit there. I have enough time to find a cozy position for maximum damage and release my charge attack before they even twitch.
After knocking one down, I actually did a little dance infront of its face as I charged my sword, and he STILL didn't move before I killed it.
The Gremlins also barely dodge anymore. They just run at your face and hope not to die.
And the gunpuppy thing still has me a bit confused. I find it hard dodging their bullets up close somehow.
I recommend nerfing the nerf by about 60%? That should get the problems the patch was probably intended to solve, but still keep the monster's difficulty fairly comfortable.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:47
#47
Just try to make the game
Just try to make the game harder I been doing that for ages now...no shield runs using 3* or 2* gear in tier 3....we got bored of Fsc ended up doing this:
ven, 01/06/2012 - 15:51
#48
.......
Lol.
ven, 01/06/2012 - 16:04
#49
The only things I thought
The only things I thought were good were the bug fixes. Like wolvers not pushing your around with their burrows. It's nice that zombies don't have that drive by slash anymore when they get pushed past you, but these slow and linear monsters make everything feel like the first tier.
Not sure if they fixed the zombie leap/hug bugs, or wolvers that that occassionally burrow while attacking, and instantly pop up and bite you in the back. Guess it's not even noticeable now, since everything else about them is non-threatening. ^_^
ven, 01/06/2012 - 16:08
#50
You can also do jelly king
You can also do jelly king runs in one star gear. Thirsty for content? try it. FSC looks like its the absolute end because we are getting cosmetics and monster nerf updates, dare there be a challenge in this game or something new (as I will gladly say 1,000 times and explain if someone disagrees, shadow lairs do not count).
Go solo the shadow FSC/Vana