Spiral Knights - Several ideas about weapons.

Several ideas about weapons.

9 replies [Last post]

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 15:07

Guttler

Firstly, let me start off by saying that Spiral Knights needs a new type of accessory: Beards. Period. Now on to weapons.

Normal damage:

We all know that weapons that deal normal damage only are often rare to see in the deep depths of the clockworks. The problem comes from the fact that they are nearly always deal only 66% of the damage that a elemental, shadow, or piercing weapon would do against an appropriate target. OOO could make normal weapons better if they decided to pick one of these solutions:

1.) Make it so Normal weapons deal more then 100% damage when they are 5* items. If Normal weapons did 125% or 130% damage the gap between them and specialized damage types would be small enough that normal would still be worse, but not so bad so be worthless.

2.) Make new family of monsters that are weak or normal damage. Now every knight needs a good normal damage weapon to quickly dispatch of these new enemies.

Gun types:

Most of the guns in spiral knights are 'handgun' type weapons. The only major difference is the autogun line, which builds in machines guns. There needs to be some more types of guns in this game. Do a long range rifle with a 1 bullet clip. Make a short range shotgun. Do something that isn't just a handgun.

Bomb ideas:

I'd like to see two new bomb types:

1.) Grenade: You charge it just like a normal bomb, but instead of placing it t your feet, you lob it in the direction you are facing and then it's fuse starts.
2.) Remote Mines: When you attack you place one mine, with a limit to how many you can have down. You then have to do a charge up your attack and release it to detonate any laid mines.

New stats:

As much as I love ASI, CTR, and Damage boosts. OOO could add many many more stats into the game. I'll just list a few.

Gun ammo clip size
Bomb fuse time reduction
Gun rapid reload speed
Bomb blast radius increase
Sword range increase (size of hit box)
Sword double charge - Perform a second charge attack immediately after your first.

We could get a lot of cool armor with combination of these stats: Imagine a bomber set that lowered your fuse time, but lowered the blast radius to compensate or a gunner set that reduced your clip size, but boosted your reload speed.

That's what I have for now, but I'm always thinking and the gears keep turning.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 15:27

Severage

@OP:

"Gun ammo clip size
Bomb fuse time reduction
Gun rapid reload speed
Bomb blast radius increase
Sword range increase (size of hit box)
Sword double charge - Perform a second charge attack immediately after your first."

Magazine size, and Fuse time reduction are great ideas.

Gun reload speed is determined by ASI, the higher your ASI, the faster you reload, so in essence, this is already in the game.

Bomb blast Radius increase - This would be really harsh for Status-Bombs. Imagine playing Lockdown and someone had a Voltaic Tempest with MAX Radius increase....that'd be really annoying imo.

Sword Range Increase - This wouldn't make much sense at all unless the sword itself actually got larger, otherwise it'd be impossible to tell, and an "invisible sword" would hit things.

Sword Double Charge - This seems a bit overpowered..especially if swords are the only ones that get it. 5* Brandishes would be really powerful, not to mention Divine Avengers. At the same time though, it'd suck for weapons like Gran Faust, and essentially be a bad UV, because you'd pretty much guarantee a curse on yourself.

~Sev

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 15:33

Mk-Vl

For the beards

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 16:17

Diamondshreddie

wow !

most of these ideas i can see are pretty well thought out ! and i really like em,

especially the bomb suggestions and fuse time decrease/reload time decrease !

although range increases and clip sizes are better untouched XD
otherwise great stuff here! +1

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 16:41

Uuni

Clip size would offer pretty

Clip size would offer pretty ridiculous advantage to those who can buy a trillion UV resets to get extended clip max, especially in lockdown

Would be cooler if it were some sort of attachment like accessory that can be attached to guns and traded forth so everyone can access it
Maybe like range, mobility or clip size attachments to guns

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 16:52

Severage

@Uuni:

Yeah LD makes anyone think twice about adding in more UVs, it's P2W as it is.

And...Polaris with Clip size....*shudder*....

An attachment for Range (Scope), and clip size (Bigger magazine on it) makes sense, but how would you attach something to a gun to make you faster while shooting? O_o

~Sev

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 17:39

Baodur

@OP WHOAIT?!? (Whoa/wait/what?)

Hold on one second! Okay, I have CIV which is normal damage, and I use elemental for undead more often, however, for people with only 2 weapon slots open it is extremely convenient to not have to worry about being weak on something and not having anything to switch to. Although, the Arsenal Station made them practically obsolete. Leviathan Blade will never be equal to a brandish. CIV is still great for FSC because Vanaduke's mask is resistant against all types, except normal, which is normal on the mask anyway. CIV is also good at FSC because of course alot of undead, so you still do a minimum of 250 damage per hit.

Next in line:

Those UV-type additions sound like they could break the game, a Polaris with rapid reload speed high + Clip size increase Max! Would be unstoppable, or if they got max on both UVs. Anyway you look at that, a Polaris would be unstoppable with those things. Or what if we had a Clip size increase Max! UV on a Sentenza or Argent Peacemaker. What would it have a 12 shot magazine? These things would have to be VERY controlled, which means a High - Max UV would be the only good ones. Anything below that wouldn't work so great. Also how do you gauge Clip size? Low one extra bullet, Medium two extra bullets, high three extra bullets, very high four extra bullets (Waay to far already), Ultra five extra bullets, Maximum! 6 extra bullets. Polaris would have 8 shots, that makes this UV really over powered, this answers why they aren't already in the game, OOO doesn't want to break the UV balance to a point where if your gun has no UV you aren't 1/100 of someone with a maximum UV. Like Sev said though, ASI governs reload speed to an extent so that is already in the game. So when I say "A Polaris with rapid reload speed high + Clip size Max! would be unstoppable," I am really saying "A Polaris with ASI High + Clip size Max! would be unstoppable,".

Bomb blast radius increase... That is a definite game breaker, I mean a shiver mist with a Blast radius increase maximum? This would have to be a very small bonus so that max only increases it about the length of a knight's standing area. Otherwise it would be way over powered.

Sword double charge... How would you have this as a UV-type? it would have to be trinket only, also, can you imagine the power behind a Brandish Charge attack? And what if you were using an autogun? You would sit in place for way to long. This actually is the only one not to game-breaking because it cancels out the usefulness from it's own immobility.

Sword range increase.... ._. This one is pretty bad, can you imagine LD with a Gran Faust with Maximum! Sword range increase? With Gran Faust you can already hit something 200 feet away from you, this is the last thing we need.

Bomb fuse time reduction? this one isn't even valid as a suggestion... I mean, you have to have a huge amount of charge time reduction for this to be useful at all. If Shivermist does this it isn't a problem really, but for Nitronome or something of the sort it doesn't seem to be useful... Ice is the only thing you need to do fast, if you need to kill something fast then why are you using a bomb?

@Diamondshreddie "most of these ideas i can see are pretty well thought out ! and i really like em," Please tell me you are kidding.

Your bomb ideas I guess are alright, grenades sound great but more like a gun that shoots them. (Need a grenade launcher)

I like you beard suggestion, beards sound alright but may be hard to see on some helmets.

Making a new damage type that normal is good on is a bad idea, the WHOLE POINT in having a normal item is so that it is NORMAL on everything. Not weak, not strong.

A sniper rifle would be okay, most guns range are to short and make it hard to hit things far away. Polaris' range is to long for it though, every time I use it I get annoyed at the fact that it goes to far. Shotguns are already done by autoguns, Autoguns cover both machine gun and shot gun, they are short ranged, and shoot lots of bullets. The only difference in making a Shotgun from autoguns is that it would shoot once before needed to reload and wouldn't make you so immobile. I can understand wanting a simple shotgun.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 18:36

Nova-Royal

@Guttler

"1.) Make it so Normal weapons deal more then 100% damage when they are 5* items. If Normal weapons did 125% or 130% damage the gap between them and specialized damage types would be small enough that normal would still be worse, but not so bad so be worthless."

Maybe 60-70%

"2.) Make new family of monsters that are weak or normal damage. Now every knight needs a good normal damage weapon to quickly dispatch of these new enemies."

No, normal was made to be neutral to every family monsters. New family would be good with a new damage type.

"Most of the guns in spiral knights are 'handgun' type weapons. The only major difference is the autogun line, which builds in machines guns. There needs to be some more types of guns in this game. Do a long range rifle with a 1 bullet clip. Make a short range shotgun. Do something that isn't just a handgun."

Maybe a shotgun or a flamethrower

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 19:25

Tsubasa-No-Me

@Baodur

...Do you REALLY want me to rage about normal damage? I can literally go on for pages; I have collected that much info.

@OP...

To #1: Yes, If Suda for example, did the same DPS as a DA or GF on neutral, they would not be outclassed as bad, but would able to be useful. There are some other suggestions for it though...

To #2: Not really a good choice... But perhaps some monsters that resist everything but normal... like Vana's mask.

_______________

In general, they need to change "Swords" to Melee, "Guns" to Ranged, and "Bombs" to Explosives... I mean, a Warhammer is not a Sword....

_______________

If you really want me to,
Tsu

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 21:21

Guttler

Let me add some things.

It seems like the most common concerns by my fellow knights relate to bomb radius, gun magazine size, and the sword stats.

Firstly, looking at bomb radius. Having a large bomb radius would allow you to control a rather large zone, which could be very powerful in lockdown. However, having a larger explosion radius would also come with a longer fuse time because the fuse wouldn't naturally speed up. That'd be why it'd be a good idea to balance gear with particularly strong stats with negative stats. An example would be bomb radius increase: medium and fuse speed decreased: low (As in the fuse moves slower and takes even longer to detonate the giant bomb.)

Some good points are brought up about magazine size, since as a UV you'd potentially be getting six extra bullets. There are a couple of ways to make magazine size a viable stat, but restricting the abuse.

OOO could place it on a piece of gear like health, rather then making it a UV. Imagine if we had a gunslinger armor that gave health+n and then gun magazine+1 with the other stats following. It would limit the amount of extra shots you get to 2, probably 4 maximum if trinkets were added.

Another option would be to place a cap on how many shots a gun could fire, maybe divide it by type. Two shot guns like alchemers or calahann could get two extra shots. Three shot guns like polaris, only get one extra shot. The antigua line can't get more then six shots, because a revolver with more shots makes no sense. If they made a rifle with only a single bullet magazine, I could defiantly see this stat being needed.

I liked the idea suggested about possible weapon attachments, then you wouldn't have to worry about the stat as a UV or even putting it on armor. Rather, each weapon could have one or more (or zero) augment slots that could improve it in some way, even stacking with or replacing UVs.

On the sword stats, It's kind of hard to come up with a good idea for what sword could use in terms of stats, since they are just amazing currently and scale well with ASI, CTR, and Damage. I agree that range is a wonky stat on the sword and it would have to make the sword graphically larger. Let's scrap that suggestion.

I can see double charge being very strong particularly on weapons like voltedge or DA. I'll return to this in a minute.

What is swords got a new stat and it was combo length? Think of it like gun magazine size for sword. Two hit combo swords get a third hit, three hitters could add a fourth. It'd require new attack animations for all the swords to add an attack, which I'm sure OOO would not want to do. Let's take the reverse though, sword combo length decrease. You instead get less attacks in the combo and no new animations need to be made.

You could balance double charge attacks by reducing the amount of swipes a sword user gets outside of their charge attack, making it so that their optimal strategy becomes constantly using their charge attack with a normal swipe or two once in a while to finish off a weakened monster/opponent.

Imagine a piece of armor that gave double charge, but then reduced your sword combo down to only the first hit so that you didn't benefit from a three hit combo with knock-back on the third hit and instead you only had one swipe after blowing your charge.

Alternatively, it's a fun idea to work this design into a new item. Make it a very heavy and very large sword (like a trojans sword!) with a powerful charge attack, but on performing a normal attack the weight of the weapon imbeds the sword into the ground and your knight must take a moment to lift it back up into a usable position.

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Several ideas about weapons.