Spiral Knights - New Weapon Types?

New Weapon Types?

23 replies [Last post]

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 00:14

syzygy23

Legacy Username

Swords, bombs and pistols are all well and good, but what about more exotic weaponry?

Things like flails (morning stars, or things like that buzz-saw ball from kill bill Vol. 1)
Scythes (Not the most practical in a fight, but they certainly LOOK badass!)
Halberds/Polearms (Long reach, low hit area?)
Daggers/Knives (Faster attacks than swords, but always dual wield so you can't use shield?)
Launchers (You know those turrets that fire missles? SETTLE THE SCORE!)
Sprayers (Remember those turrets that shoot streams of fire? Now it`s your turn, only you can spray more than fire this time! Although... how does one spray shadow exactly?)
Power Gloves (For the discerning and brutal pugilist!)
Warhammers (I'm sure they could fit 40,000 of them in the game...)
Toolkits (Basically 'healing' weapons. Charge 'em up and keep your allies alive, or spawn small minions/construct turrets)

There's a lot of potential to expand playstyle options here. But what do the community/developers think?

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 01:34

Pawn

I like this

I agree more weapon types...
Scythes FTW :)

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 04:00

Ageatii

A new weapon type would have

A new weapon type would have to function fundamentally different from the current 3. I don't see that happening with most of these suggestions. Gloves seems the most promising if they involve throwing enemies different directions. :)

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 10:22

syzygy23

Legacy Username

Well, obviously they would

Well, obviously they would have different functions, it would be dull otherwise. Like launchers for instance. Pretty powerful ranged capabilities compared to a pistol, yes? Perhaps the Launcher would determine speed, distance traveled, and charge time, while whatever bomb was equipped in your other weapon slot would provide the damage and effects (Basically, in order to use a launcher, you would NEED a bomb equipped)

Sprayers would be crap for damage, but great for spreeading status effects en masse thanks to lingering trails of whatever it is you spray with them.

Flails could have slightly longer range than most sword, with emphasis on being very slow but packing a brute power combined with greater range. A sort of middleman between guns and melee weapons.

Scythes would be great for short range sweeping attacks, good if you're surrounded but hard to hit single targets or a specific target.

Toolkits speak for themselves.

Warhammers, the slowest and most powerful, yet has very few combo hits, and about as much range as a sword with even less ability to deal with multiple enemies.

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 10:51

Pawn

New weapon would have to

I don't think a new weapon type would necessarily have to function differently from original ones. Already they have hammers/wrenches that function like swords. Helmets and body armor function virtually the same. I think it would be fine if scythes or hammers played like swords already do. Of course i think it would be better if new weapon types were actually new weapon types, but i don't think they'd HAVE to function differently. It is more win if they do.

Oh yeah, and lances are awesome too :)

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 12:52

Eshajori

Legacy Username

Duel Weilding daggers

I could see these working pretty easily. They would either come as a set or there would be Main Hand and Offhand daggers. But they would offer a very small, shield-like defense as sort of a parry when you hit the shield button. It would be far less useful that an actual shield, but you'd attack faster than usual.

Or make a "parry" different from a shield - still the same button but instead of just holding it down it would be a timing thing. Just creates a small window of blocking every time you click it, just before the attack hits you. This could work with 2-handed weapons too, that did a lot of damage but were slow as molasses.

Or just have no shield and give a slight movement speed boost. It would be almost impossible end-game but it would be an interesting option.

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 14:53

syzygy23

Legacy Username

Yeah, or have the shield

Yeah, or have the shield constantly drain on dual daggers.

And what about unconventional weaponry? Whips, boomerangs, eye-lasers...

Yeah, I said eye-lasers, those robot mobs have them, why not us?

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 14:57

King-Tinkinzar

Construct Turrets FTW! aaah

Construct Turrets FTW! aaah Lego Universe Beta, goooooood times, good times...

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 20:03

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Woot! Flamethrowers, yes

Woot!
Flamethrowers, yes please!
Grenades. Like bombs, but you can throw em.
Anything ridable? Hoverboards, bikes, something? (I know it sounds out of place, but is there must be something like this...)
Lances, daggers, and boomerangs are also a must.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 00:42

syzygy23

Legacy Username

Vehicle sections would make

Vehicle sections would make for better set piece battles methinks. Maybe one floor of the clockworks could be all about 1 player riding some sort of bike while your partner rides sidecar with a mounted gun?

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 11:23

#10

Merethif

Back from Easter Holidays and ready to comment :-D

There were quite a few topics about new weapon types. My personal opinions below (some copy/paste from prevoius topics has been made):

1. Weapon category that is called "SWORDS" actually include all melee weapons that are used to whack, swing, hack or slash your enemies. So far we already have not only european medieval swords (Calibur), katanas (Fireburst Brandish) or sabers (Cutter) but also axes (Heavy Hatchet), hammer (Thwack Hammer), staff (Wrench Wand), pickaxes (Beast Basher) and even shovels (Slime Slasher). In my opinion any melee weapon that will be added (like frying pans, clubs, flails, scythes, baseball bats, spears, halberds and such) falls into "SWORDS" category - there's no need to create new category. Different swords could have different abilities and looks but they still fall into "SWORDS" category as long as they are hand held, melee weapons used for whacking, swinging, hacking or slashing.
I know that name "swords" is misleading especially in case of players who are used to D&D ripoff MMO where every melee weapon has its own category that's why I would be glad if name "sword" get changed into "melee" by OOO - the sooner the better. There's lot of confusion here at the moment because most players take "swords" for swords very literally.

2. Likewise weapon category that is called "HANDGUNS" include all projectile-firing weapons - be it pistol (Pummel Gun), machine gun (Needle Shot), revolver (Antigua) or even paintball gun (Alchemer). In my opinion any projectile-firing weapon that will be added (like shotgun, crossbow, eyes-lasers or flamethrower) falls into "HANDGUNS" category - there's no need to create new category.

3. I've been convinced that perhaps there is a place for new weapon categories like "polearms" (weapons that are thrusted rather then swung and deal mostly Piercing damage) or "thrownig weapons that fly back to owner" (like boomerang or yo-yo) BUT most weapons suggested here really falls into "sword" or "handgun" category, which is not something bad actually. Scythes, warhammers or eyes-lasers sound like fun, but I don't think new categories are neede for any of those.

4. Also I strongly believe that shields are inseparable part of combat system in Spiral Knights - that's why I don't think there's place for dual wielding weapons in this game. I'm not a developer though and I may be totally wrong on this issue.

5. I like vehicles idea. They won't be introduced any time soon I suppose but nevertheless idea seems nice at the first glance.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 12:42

#11

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

@merethif Yeah, I have to

@merethif

Yeah, I have to agree, "Swords" and "Handguns" do seem more like melee and ranged weapons, as opposed to specifically swords and guns. But there are still some changes I think should be made:
- Scythes, Spears, Polearms and the like ("staff" weapons) should all be added. Either give them their own category or change "Swords" to "Melee".
- Flamethrowers, shotguns, Vacuums and the like ("spray" weapons) should all be added. Again, give 'em their own category or change "Guns" to "Ranged".
- Knives should be a pert of swords or get their own category. Because they're just that cool. And yes, they should be dual wield. And give you more drops. (Can you say "Thief" class?)
- Bombs should have place-able and throw-able bombs, or have a button that makes you throw or place them.
- Weapons that heal should probably just be incorporated into the aforementioned categories.
- Weapons that can build things (a toolkit, a wrench, a multitool) should have their own category: they can build allies from your mats, heal machinery, and dismantle/convert mechas.
- Gloves (for punching/kicking) should have their own category. POW POW!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 17:21

#12

Merethif

Rideable weapons

A little bumb on this topic.
I'm still thinking about those "rideable weapons" that RamuneDrink suggested.
It could work like mounts in Golden Axe (one of top 5 games of my childhood). I can imagine gremlin biker that player have to knock down from vehicle in order to use it.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 17:57

#13

brian6330

Legacy Username

/signed I'd REALLY like this

I always look forward to more weapons! Would be nice to not see everybody in using the same weapons... It would also allow for more playstyles and add more variety to the game.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 21:16

#14

Exiax

Legacy Username

Aye!!!

So far we have...

- Swords,Heavy Swords and Rapiers (All of them are different from each other)
- Guns,Bombs (We need more!)

for one I like you're idea but I think it's way too focused on Melee weapons...as of now the admins/devs are working on a ranged partner for the rapiers so I suggest that you make a ranged partner for those melee weapons too o.o

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 21:25

#15

New-Dusk

Tower Sheilds!!!

A tower shield could take up one weapon slot, and replace the normal shield when active. They would have a much higher than normal shield health, and would have a medium damage two hit combo. The first hit would be a forward bash with the shield, and the second a downward smash attack. Having one out would slow you down, but massively up your defence, making it more of a support weapon/shield

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 23:32

#16

gamegeared

Legacy Username

A fantastic charge attack for

A fantastic charge attack for a warhammer type weapon would be a shockwave like trojan stops (with more spell effect to it) and/or those ground spikes the mega slimes use.

A throw bomb would be great to, give it no charge time for a simple (low damage) throw. And for its charge make it something like gremlins or those bomb robots have where you either have the gremlin through a slew of explosives (add a stun effect to it) or plop 4 bombs around you like the robot does.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 01:42

#17

terabomber

Legacy Username

Wet blanket

I'm going to rain on your parade and say these things:

Healing items are never happening, they want you to pay for revival.
The idea of throwing bombs has been rejected, that would make guns obsolete.

That aside, though, I like the idea of new weapon types... I agree with Merethif's view that shields are integral to spiral knights combat, but I couldn't help thinking that if Flamethrowers or other such heavy firearms (Minigun, anyone?) were to be implemented, they'd need some sort of debuff to keep it balanced, like disabling your shield (You can't fire the heavy gun without pushing the shield key first to 'set up' your weapon, and then you can't move) I doubt that'll happen though, that kind of artillery support playstyle is a completely different dynamic.

Same to dual wielding, I doubt that re-appropriating the shield controls is going to happen. The way I see it, you'd need to make a weapon item which is two blades, and that somehow changes your shield usage, or otherwise make a Shield-slot item which is actually a weapon, and that changes your original weapon usage.
A really ghetto way to work it would be to make a shield that just looks like a dagger and boosts your attack, while having crappy defensive stats.

About bombs... I'd enjoy it if a regular attack planted the mine (as the charge does now) and the charge attack tosses it a short distance... but bombs are already pretty cheap, that'd be broken as hell.

As always, new stuff has to be balanced so that we don't see everyone piling into "the best" weapon. (Although people will pile into new stuff anyway just because it's new.)

As for the gloves, perhaps a new category for 'hand-to-hand'? This would include claws, brass knuckles, shock gloves, I don't know. To qualify for a new category it needs to be significantly different from the 'Sword' mechanics. Regular attack for fast multi-hit combos, charge attack for tackle/throw?
Personally I don't see new categories likely to be developed at all... The closest I'd expect would be Sword-class claw weapons.

Sun, 05/15/2011 - 23:09

#18

Hopscotch

Legacy Username

( '.')b

Re: Defense
I, too, have to disagree with healing weapons.

The defense system in Spiral Knights does not revolve around shields. It also revolves around building your stats in armor and helm for damage types and status effects. More importantly, it also revolves around someone paying half their life to revive you, or someone paying CE to revive and save the party. Though shields are important, swapping them for an off-hand weapon won't break the game.

However. Repeatable player-initiated healing will break the game.

Surviving in SK isn't about beating a round of enemies, then sitting and healing in the newly emptied room. It's not about balancing agro so your healer can keep you alive in battle. It's about surviving whole floors, or several floors in a row, without a reliable method of recovering from damage. Your toolkits would destroy this balance.

.
Re: Category names
As it is (swords, guns, bombs) = clean and tidy recipe list and arsenal, very few bazaar shopkeepers (all with simple dialogues)
Every possible category and the kitchen sink = players feeling awesome about being masters of a niche category

I'm not against this. I would love to be the only tonfa-wielding member in the party. Weapon type variety will create variety in player styles, which is very good. But both options have their benefits.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:33

#19

Terravolt

Legacy Username

However...

Who's to say that the Toolkits couldn't exist? Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of player-healing would break Spiral Knights and make it far too easy. However, the idea of setting up turrets and / or traps seems like a promising weapon type.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 20:46

#20

culture

Legacy Username

Visors

We should get visors like the snipes. Then throw them, a la Oddjob.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 21:36

#21

grinningCat

Legacy Username

Dual typed weapons. Like a

Dual typed weapons. Like a sword that is also a gun. They'd take up two weapon spaces, but you use the scroll wheel or space bar to switch to the other mode.

Or a gun that can fire both bullets and bombs.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:16

#22

Bulby

(Ô.Ô)

Oooh. Like those gun blades from Final Fantasy right? The Valiance would be great for this!

And what about a double-ended sword like Darth Maul's lightsaber?

Now that would be fun to use. >:D

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 14:43

#23

Orangeo

Some of these weapon sets

Some of these weapon sets seem allot like weapons that already exist. Like launchers, why not just make a gun called launcher? It'll have launcher-like specs, but still be a handgun.
Also, You cant have any weapon that sacrifices your sheild. That makes one peice of equipment completely unnessecary, therefore you basicaly won't need to craft a sheild. You can't have anything that prevents something else from working.

What we need are Gernade launcher like handguns, that bounce off walls and such, and detonate on spikes or enemies, or just on their own after some time.

Or bombs that buff allies, like how an alpha wolver buffs little wolvers. Plus bombs that blow up once someone steps on them, or close enough, or over some time..

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