Spiral Knights - May be late but... To all CE ragers: the market price of CE is stable at 8000cr per 100CE

May be late but... To all CE ragers: the market price of CE is stable at 8000cr per 100CE

51 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:27

Xylka-Mkii

I'm thinking of making a video of this aswell to explain it, but until then here's everything.
Oh and you can begin flaming me now.

The CE market. Stable?

A lot of people in game have been constantly fighting over this controversial issue in the game. Many people make what we call "CE Rage threads" whenever the CE to CR exchange rate rises "too high" (usually by 1000cr or something) But is it really impossible for said players to advance in the game with the current prices? Or is the CE market actually at a stable price?

First off let's explain how it works simply, so that no one is getting confused here.
CE is bought by P2P players, and Sold on the market for a price set by those sellers. The current rate it is at is around:

8000crowns per 100CE
Before we get into if it is stable, or at a reasonable price for all players, we have to announce some other parts of the game and clear up those factors on the market first

Crowns: (CR) Infinitely generated every time someone goes into a clockworks run (or mission run) and are used as one of the currencies in the game.
Crystal energy: (CE) is generated ONLY by P2P players buying it with real money from OOO, the developers of the game. CE can be stored in large amounts, sold by exchanging for CR, and is essential for players to get past Tier 2 (to upgrade to 3* items, and especially past 3* to Tier 3)

But there's one other factor on this whole "CE is too expensive" thing. Something that I think a lot of players either take for granted, or don't think of as being a factor on their daily profit as much as they should.
Mist Energy: (ME or Mist) Mist is the same as CE, except it cannot be sold, and can only be stored up to 100units. However, it regenerates at a pace of 1 unit per 13.5 minutes, meaning 100ME is generated after 22 hours, or about one full day.
Something to note of Mist energy is that it IS technically infinite, as it regenerates everyday. this is commonly seen as a limit of how much the F2P player can p[lay each day (extended by buying CE) but it also should be thought of as free CE.

What I mean is that since Mist will regenerate anyway, anything gained as profit from a run (CR, Mats, etc) is ALL profit. I'll show you what I mean in a moment.

So back to the main issue: CE being too expensive.
Many of those complaining are for the most part Tier 2 players, along with the occasional Tier 3'er
They say Tier 2 is not profitable at the current state, including the Boss levels such as RJP and IMF.
When I heard (and saw firsthand) that the mission RJP was paying out at only ~2700cr each run, I wondered if this was true or not, so I did the math.

100Mist = 3 full RJP runs
3 full runs = 8100cr + 9 tokens
1 token = ~270cr
Mist used = 30 per run + 10 for possible revives = 100mist
Profit = 100CE + a small bit left over

So yes. Doing 3 runs of RJP that take no more than ~15-20 minutes total gets you enough to break even, and even profit a small bit. Wait, you want MORE profit? ok

Well let's leave you the boss fight. that saves 10Energy there, making each run shorter, and allowing for 20Energy per run.
so now:
100 Mist = 5 RJP runs (w/o boss)
5 full runs = 13,500cr
Mist used = 20 per run no revs = 100mist NOTE: If a revive is used, theres a chance the
mist used will have been regained for the last run
Profit = 13,500cr
Converted to CE, thats 100CE + 5400cr leftover. And ALL of this is profit, since only mist was used.

That sounds profitable to me. Ok ok, you may say that it requires knowing a strategy that maybe not every player knows. But let me ask you this: Is it a strategy to ONLY run FSC and RJP because they are most profitable? Is it common knowledge by now to most players at that level of experience?
Well it should be! If you know of players who dont know this and these strategies to profit the most, then tell them. Spread the word.

Now on to FSC, or Firestorm Citadel. This is the most profitable area in the game by far. The problem is that it is only accessible to Tier 3 players, and it can be jumped to from the mission selctions.
This is where it may seem unfair to T2'ers.
FSC requires a minimum of 40energy to do the 4 floors (no including the boss)
In those 4 floors, the player gains about 8000cr.

So what's the problem? Well think about it:

100Mist = 2 runs (not including the boss)
Each run = 8000CE but only costs 50energy (assume you need to revive oneach of the runs once)
Now look at that. You are able to buy 100 CE, after only using 50CE!
And that's not even including using the boss tokens at the token exchange. Each one of those are worth 1000cr each, and you get 3 per run if you do the boss!

Now that may make it sound that CE would have to be at 16000cr per 100CE to keep those players from over profiting, but really think about it this way:

If the average T2er can make a total of 100CE + 5400cr each day, then they are still profiting, and going at a pretty good pace to upgrade.

For example. If say theres a 3* player wanting to upgrade to 4*, it would only take about 3 days to upgrade one piece. this means you could finish crafting a full set of armor to 4* within a week!

Then, since you will eventually have clearance to Teir 3 with 4* armor and weapons, you can join some of your friends in FSC runs.

And guess what, if you follow that logic, then you can craft a piece of 5* armor in 3 days as well. in fact if you have the attention span and accessibility to run FSC nonstop for a day, you can run off CE worry free (assuming you dont die left and right) since you will always earn back what you spent.

Now the 5* players who have done everything; well I can't say for certain what they can do with their CE, but there are reasons. Buying a Shadow Lair key, Keeping Weapon slots and Trinkets open for Lockdown, crafting more weapons to 5*, having a reserve for new content. Idk, its up to that player, but in the end, its going to be spent at some point unless they quit the game.

Now let's see what we've got so far.
Tier 1 players dont worry, since they can get to Tier 2 without needing CE at all.
Tier 2 players should worry, and be cautious with their Spending, but if done right, they can potentially profit a decent amount perday.
Tier 3 players should be profiting no matter what by running FSC.

So there's no reason to say that its too expensive to profit at all. For that to happen, CE would have to go beyond 14000cr for Tier 2 to be not profitable, and beyond 17000 before FSC becomes worthless as well.

I dont thank that will happen. At leastnot for a LONG time.

Now let's go to those wanting CE to be 6000cr per 100 as a standard. I say that it should only be taken to that if CE actually does start reaching as high as 10000.

Now that's all I can really say on the matter. However I should list some useful things to know when working witht he CE market.

#1: If you want CE to be LESS expensive, then don't buy any with CR.
This cannot be stressed as much now. Everyone raging about it says to do this, and tries to rally up others in petitions and such, which inevitabley fail since anyone not in the population is STILL buying CE anyway, since they want it right then, and right now.
To everyone wanting it to lower, SAVE your Crowns for later! If this DOES happen, CE will most likely drop lower, and you'll technically make more profit by keeping your crowns. Now dont worry. If you feel like you need CE still, just remember this:
Crowns are just CE that hasn't been converted yet. Keep it like that until you NEED it at that very moment. Trust me you can save up quite a bit if you dont convert it right away.

And Yes, buying CE with real money and selling it is the only way to ensure this will work. Its simple. The Supply (CE) is increased to fit the Demand (Players buying it) which means the value of CE goes down, as more of it is abundant.

#2: If you want CE to be MORE expensive, then buy as much as you can.
...not much to say here. If you want the price to go up, spam the buy button then. It will simply buy out the lowest priced amount, and cause the higher amounts to be the "next lowest amount"
Pretty simple really. Taking out more of the Supply as the Demand increases, causes the value to go up.

#3 Keep calm, and carry on.
I know it sounds like one of those corny phrases you hear at school, but just look at it. The more you rage, the LESS gets done, and CE just keeps rising. You're only clutting the Forums, so please stop. If anything, go revive some older threads on the topic, and save everyone else the time to explain ALL OF THIS to you personally when its already available in over 9000 other threads.

And #4 Its a cycle.
Look back to September 2011. SK was just released on Steam, and CE was at 3000cr per 100CE. As people began profitting like crazy at RJP and such, the market began running out of CE very fast, and such the price began to rise. It went up to about 5000 i think, the stableized at 4000, and we all got used to it. Then later, it took another leap up to 7000 and stableized at 6000, people were shocked at this, since it never happened before, and many were wondering why. What I think happened is that all the Steam "newbs" were getting close to Tier 3 now, and beginning to Farm FSC, causing profits to skyrocket, and in turn deplete the CE supply, increasing its value.
This happened again now, as CE jumped to 7000 again, and stayed there. And because no one is realizing what is happening, its going to continue to rise until it hits the point were the Tier 2ers cannot profit at all, in which case it will stableize again.

So with all this is mind, is the CE market Stable? Well That's up for you to decide for yourself.
Is the CE <-> Cr exchange ratio at a stable point now at 8000cr? I think so. Everyone in any tier can profit, and its only because of Mission jumps to the boss levels and a lack of amazing new content/promos arising that theres just not enough CE to meet the demand as easily as before, but right now I think it should stay around 8000 for a while.

I can't say whether the price will rise or not with the new content coming, as it pertains mainly to guildhall upgrades and a new weapon playstyle, which means its pretty vauge as to whether it will be another CE sink, or CR sink.

Once details come out, it should be pretty obvious, but as for now, I'll let the market play itself out.

Final thoughts: Well I personally am still gonna keep buying CE, since I'm 5* and can afford to run FSC willy-nilly and waste money on revives (since I'm partially P2P).

I pay when I really need it, and 3000 of that goes right into Trinket and Weapon slots . Don't judge me >:c

That's all I can say on this. The market is defintiely stableized for the most part, but it will always favor the more higher tier players. Even so, it is still relatively easy for a Tier 2'er to upgrade to 4* should you follow the plan of only running the levels of RJP, and only on mist.

Discuss.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:43

Aumir

So, do you mean that people can't put walls higher anymore? Maybe the price will finally lower then. Stable, yeah right.

Before missions people were able to go to FSC/RJP by invites to Basil : ) So mission mode isn't a excuse.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:55

The-Worst-Knight

RJP gives 2300cr, not 2700.

RJP gives 2300cr, not 2700. Also mats are cheap.
Ce is over, its fact i just saw offers 9000, 9500, 10000cr
p2p dont want to make offers, cause its faster to get crowns through "trade" instead "market"

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 07:52

Xylka-Mkii

"So, do you mean that people

"So, do you mean that people can't put walls higher anymore? "

No, they still can, but I'm guessing that it wont rise beyond a certain point. It is player run, so its going to be unpredictable, but that doesn't mean we can just throw it at 30k per 100CE, because it would require it to be not profitable to every F2P player, and those selling the CE wouldn't get any money, so it would have to go down for the market to even function.

"Before missions people were able to go to FSC/RJP by invites to Basil : ) So mission mode isn't a excuse."

And that's why it rose even more recently, because people dont need to have SOMEONE go to basil, or waste energy trying to.
Now practically anyone has instant reach to the boss stratums, without any obstacles other than their own gear and ability to complete the other missions.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:03

Aumir

Hm, still I think it won't though xP

Believe me, they can, they will. Until now it hasn't stopped. Next excuse: Danger missions.

And people could before also invite people below tiers to FSC, grind crowns and get "insta"(almost) Tier 3 access. Things haven't changed as much as people would like you to believe, just the greed increased, they saw they could do so, and they did. Current prices have just slowed down the speed which those people can attain 4* gear by exploiting this, nothing else.

A "virtual economy" is far simpler than it looks like. Maybe EVE online is the exception.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:50

Jelzkrim

8500 crowns per 100 ce

and it keeps rising fast. I don't care that much, FSC gives just enough to turn 100 ce in 200 ce, but that's... the problem, it needs to be a lot lower. Like 5000 crowns plus tokens for the five floors, and it would be on par with other levels.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:55

Yozoraboshi

Clockworkian Greed

The market price on the buyers side was about 8200 just yesterday. The price is now approaching 8500. A jump in almost 300 cr in ONE day tells me that prices are far from stable and the market manipulators are far from satisifed. If you can tell me a way to circumvent the CE price manipulators, then I can believe that prices will stabilize. Everything you said before made sense, but that was without taking the CE cartel into account. Now that they see that there methods are so effective there is currently nothing that players can do to combat the price walls that are being set up without paying for it with cash. Boycotts from the buyers means they just wont get any energy and a massive price reduction from the sellers means that they just give the manipulators cheap CE, thus bankrolling their wall scheme. Only OOO can stabilize prices by creating an order cap, but the chances of that happening and the likely effectiveness are both low.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:58

Demonicsothe

So is this a conspiracy

So is this a conspiracy theory of buyers buying their own ce to raise prices? I hardly think there is enough people that rich who would do this at an attempt to bump prices up, and keep them up. After all, people buy ce at prices they are willing to buy at.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:11

Yozoraboshi

You wouldn't know unless you've seen it.

They likely arent buying any CE. Suppose CE sellers are asking x+100 for their CE. Let's say you want to buy CE and you see LITERALLY 3000 stagnant offers to buy at price x, unless you are a very patient person, you will likely offer at price x+1 and so will many others. With enough people buying at x+1, the manipulators cancel their offers at price x to price x+99 or what ever the highest offer below the sellers asking price is. This forces everyone else to raise their asking price with little risk of the manipulators actually buying it. Even if they bought, it they could sell it off easily.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:24

Wolfheart

Market Data

This is probably a shameless self-promotion but you can find some (not that old) historical prices here:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/46879

From the looks of it, the market has been on a steady raise for a while and may not stop here. But hey, supply and demand. I think we may have been the mistake of thinking it was supposed to stay at a certain price as that isn't how a market really works.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:32

#10

Noomad

Just a few things I wanna

Just a few things I wanna throw in here...

Most of the people here in 2*-3* gear probably came after missions were implemented, where it's harder to make friends in higher places. The only people running the lower missions, aside from RJP, are low star people, leaving the only option of making new friends either RJP itself or asking around in haven. I'd like to believe most people don't friend noobs in haven, they like to see their skills firsthand before friending someone who isn't good and will probably just beg for ce.

I sincerely doubt a player, who hasn't gotten up to T3 and the likes, can run RJP 3 times in 15-20 minutes.

In order to get access to the KOA mission yourself, you have to get past the 5* HOH. What's the point of putting the most profitable mission by far beyond such a requirement? You're practically at the end game when you reach full 5*. A 4* player can get to the clockworks FSC levels, but so few people run the clockworks version now. Plus there's the 40 mist to pay for the s5 levels, so you'd be getting 10k cr for 90 mist, which, while still definitely profitable, is far less so than the mission.

I still feel like KOA should get nerfed to 5k-6k cr per run. It is too profitable, and you have to be full 5* to have personal access to it. I also hope they can somehow make the clockworks more appealing, so people can run them and PUG more and be like how it used to be... but ah well.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:46

#11

Flex-Md

um...

You forgot something... people want to play game, not grind trough 2 levels over and over. Try to make a run through arcade and see how much(not much) it'll give you with your daily 100 mist...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:14

#12

Yvanblo

Nope

Hogwash.

Everyone talks about Balance in this game. Why not balance the economy? Half the patches have been about balance; Lockdown, crown output, weapon damage, enemy strength, enemy difficulty, etc. Never CE economy balance.

1. First 2 of RJP only pays ~2300 crowns on average. 5 runs, which takes more than 2.5 hours (estimate 30 minutes with only 2 weapon slots), pays ~11,500. That will buy you 100CE, with a couple thousand left over. If you play EVERY day for ~2 hours, only grinding RJP, it will take you 8 days to upgrade one 4 star item to a 5 star item. That is a daunting task when you want more than one 5 star item, I know I do... I have yet to buy or craft a 5 star item. 40 days of grinding 2 hours a day on the same level is going to get very boring, very quickly. Let's face it, who really plays everyday for 2 hours?

2. If you don't have access to RJP, you're screwed. I played a clockworks level the other day and made a whopping 178 crowns for my 10 mist (a full run from the arcade to the core will pay you ~12,000 crowns, and if you play using CE you will be losing money. The only real way to do it is with an elevator pass... p2p). That's a grand total of ~2000 crowns per 100 mist if I'm running low level clockworks (which you would be doing if you didn't have clearance for RJP). Snarbolax pays ok, I think about 1800 crowns or something. So Snarbolax will give you ~9000 crowns per 100 mist if only playing the first 2 levels. Hard to save money that way, and rather boring.

3. ~8000 cr/ 100 ce is too high for everyone other than P2P (a high cr/ce ratio is great for them, and they should be compensated for buying ce)

4. If OOO wants the clockworks to viable again, it will have to pay a little more.

5. Perhaps if the crown output went up with the CE it would help... but only if the market could be fixed to where key players were unable to raise the price of CE on purpose.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:52

#13

Fehzor

Wrong!

Given that the players cooperate the their full potential, they *could make around 2-2.5K per level in T2.

This can be achieved by splitting a party prior to an arena to generate extra spots. Lets say we have 20 knights colluding, and we have one S4 arena. The S4 arena will give the high payout of around 2.5-3K.

If knight one solos the entire way, he breaks even due to materials. Once he reaches a certain depth, around 2 levels before the boss, he invites 3 people, who also solo a level. Next level, All 4 invite again. This will eventually create a large network of single-players each with a party. Once the parties reach the arena, you'll have generated 3K on one level for 3 knights, and a varying amount for the 4th. If they are wise, and take turns. Deduct a bit for having made nil on 2-3 levels before hand, and you've got the fact that T2 knights can in fact make more than FSC players through cooperation.

This means that is is reasonable to get around 24K per 100 mist in Tier 2.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:08

#14

Aumir

Final solution

I keep making this suggestion (in fact I made it in the Spanish forum) and to me the only way to "balance" this would be to just strip the elevator & crafting energy costs and make CE a way to get "fast made equipment" and "customization purposes". The game is being killed due to the increased grinding time & limited playtime, which makes this game sort of a "fake subscription" game. If this game went true F2P playwise, it would win a lot of customers and everyone would be happy (people could still as said market with accesories, weapon skins, etc with CE) not to mention OOO could put crown costs for crafting weapons that even if a grind, it would be justified due to not having playing time limitations.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:10

#15

Demonicsothe

Ok so everyone plays the

Ok so everyone plays the game, equips 5* gear, gets stomped to pieces in T2, and quits because the game is too hard.

Or they don't get stomped, played T3, and get spanked.

Or they don't get spanked, play T3, and get bored because there is nothing else to do.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:15

#16

Glacies

There is a problem with

There is a problem with turning it into complete "Free to Play" and that would be without people such as myself paying for the game: There wouldn't be any servers really. Another thing is that OOO would actually have absolutely no reason to continue working on this game. OOO is after the money. This game makes the money. Without those who pay for CE among other things, there wouldn't be any reason to really continue working on it.

A true way to completely get CE prices back down would be to completely remove Boss missions all-together from the Mission interface while also lowering crown and heat payout slightly more (around 5.3k) in FSC in arcade. The problem isn't that people aren't willing to spend their money. It's that people are now just running FSC and there isn't enough CE to go around. Even if a lot of players worked at getting it down to 6k/100CE it would instantly go back up due to the fact that people are just getting crowns like crazy without using much mist.

But, eh.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:23

#17

Aumir

Well

You make it sound like weapons would stay as "cheap" or they would require the materials they as they do now with my suggestion. Also this game is mostly a cakewalk with al the monster nerfs.

Also, again, customization would still be CE related, so that market would get quite interesting. Increase Lockboxes droprate, etc, and you have a neat and fluid market. Make more weapon skins and make them obtainable with CE only, etc. It would get long to write all my suggestion again here, but I think you can understand what I propose. And of course, personal colors would become purchasable with CE instead of crowns.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:28

#18

Glacies

As someone who has paid for

As someone who has paid for CE. I would never buy weapon skins or any form of customization EVER. Accessories to help sell CE is one thing but that's an extremely terrible idea. and I'm pretty sure most P2P Players would agree with me.

EDIT: As said in my suggested topic of removing I.Frames in Arcade. Modifiers that boost various things is also a terrible idea.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:28

#19

Aumir

Oh, but:

You buy silver keys, you buy customization.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:38

#20

Glacies

There's a slight difference

There's a slight difference to that though. Silver Keys although bought with CE and a mix of Mist, they're accessible to both F2P and P2P. Lockboxes are there to taunt the player into spending money and sometimes though very rare get something good such as a Wolver Tail.

By what you're saying, it'd be just "OH, HEY, I WANT A WOLVER TAIL" "[Buys]"

OOO would ultimately lose even more money that way than with the standard Silver Keys.

Also, I should note that this isn't an Sim. It's an Action-Adventure Online Game. OOO should actually focus on giving us new content instead of what they've been usually doing, giving us TAILS and WINGS.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:44

#21

Aumir

o_O

I said it would be CE based, that market of customization would be CE based. ^^u Nothing with real money. And that is why the CE market would prospere, if people want those tails, they would go to get CE, either by the market or paying. Prices of course in the market with crowns would be high due to the inflation, so you would get a lot of value for your CE.

And you expect people to continue in this game with "behind pay walls" content then, you mean?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:42

#22

Thich

I'd prefer more crown sinks

I'd prefer more crown sinks than nerfing FSC. Harder missions should have more payout. The game simply needs more attractive ways to spend crowns.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 17:05

#23

Kamen-Rider-Faiz

as i said on another post like this.

i'm waiting on the moment it hits over 9k. if you can not figure out the rest of this then watch more anime.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 17:21

#24

Aumir

@Kamen-Rider-Faiz

Everyone who is from outside USA has already done that. :3

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 20:02

#25

Sweet-Hope

the problem with the "CE for

the problem with the "CE for just accesories and customization" is that people just would stop buying ONCE they got everything. without Ce for Crafting would make everyone get everything quitting so quickly from to the game or just get bored (like i do right now because i have everything i want and i dont have something to do with my CE and crowns).

removing the cost of elevator only will make players Get more crowns making people dont pay anymore for CE even if the Prices of the accesories with crowns would be high wouldnt be a problem just a few hours grinding without elevator cost limitation would make anyone just grind for whatever they want because since there isnt cost of Crafting or Elevator.

Also: this not going to solve the price because what if a F2P want an accesory but can be only bought with Ce? they will look for the Trade and buy CE for high prices and then would make another rage in the forum because they need to buy energy for more high prices (since as you suggest aumir no elevator cost) for accesories and customization since its only with Ce and them would claim isnt fair because only "p2p" can paid such thing and if they want it they would grind More hours just to buy one thing.

also (sorry for being negative) the elevator cost i see it more like a measure to keep servers less crowded so less people less laggy.

TL;DR: OOO need to add more content, or more crown sinks. removing CE from crafting and elevator would make more crowns enter in the market. leaving CE for accesories and customization would make everyone get whatever accesories they want and dont spend for CE anymore with real Money, making the business of OOO going down. more people will reach endgame and get bored of the game.

i see bad the mission thing. arcade it just a ghost town and even to reach tier 2 and tier 3 you need to do rank mission which i see bad. they indeed should remove bosses from missions and add other kind of subbosses for them or at least take in depth the gremlin role in Mission levels, so Arcade would be bring alive again with those arcade exclusive bosses. and just let missions being done like 2 or 3 per day.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 19:39

#26

Xylka-Mkii

Came back and you guys are

Came back and you guys are more right than me.

I realized I should have checked the market while writing this and done some more research on this first, didn't think it would jump 300cr in a day.

Anyway, I do think they need to nerf KoA's payout. I looked back and found out that I was wrong about most of what I said in the OP, especially the market stablizing. What I meant was that it was trying to reach an equilibrium where it would stay at.

My main point of this was to show that the CE ragers shouldn't be whining since they can still profit, and that its not as bad as it could be.

I still want CE to go up, and I'll be happy if it hits 9k as I've said before. Either way it doesn't affect me as much since I'm practically done playing until something new comes out.

You want me to take out the OP, graveyard this, or what? I'm NOT going thru and editing that wall of text though. (i am lazy)

EDIT: oh and one last thing i want to pick out:

"I'd prefer more crown sinks than nerfing FSC. Harder missions should have more payout."

I would like both if possible. More crown sinks are always good, and nerfing FSC's payout would reflect its difficulty, considering I went with one friend to vana in Full Skolver and using a 3* defender shield and died only once AFTER Vana did. Its pretty sad how easy its gotten.

And we had no shiver. Only 2 Blitz Needles.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 23:30

#27

Noomad

I only want to see KOA

I only want to see KOA nerfed. clockworks FSC is fine as it is.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 00:49

#28

Naru-Narusegawa

Well, Honestly the only real way to really do anything at all, is to get rid of that fancy interface altogether.
Sure Kozma would be demoted, but now the arcade would have some use once again, and players would actually have to adventure to the final boss,rather than to have direct access to everything.

My other concern is this, if you look at the interface,as you progress to higher,and yet higher levels, you'll notice that some items can be bought straight away with CE, Hence, since that is the market value of that item, Should it not reflect the same, or equivalent value in the auction house?, seems to me that's another part of the culprit. Instead you see some items that are set at ridiculous prices.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 01:07

#29

Radarblue

Bombs should cost 12000cr?

Even Ricasso sells them at a cheaper price (although 7500cr for a 2* weapon is still quite steep)

Personally I cap buyout prices at 1500cr, and that's because I can make it more accessible to lower tier players. More often than not, not many people are willing to buy any non-boss 2* weapon for 2000cr.

Also: quick guide: 2* star recipes cost 1000cr. 4* recipes cost 10,000cr.
2* weapon for 4* recipe price = wtf

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 03:54

#30

Il-Ladro

Opinion

I can see your line of reasoning but I must add that, this way, clockworks would not exist anymore in the game.
What game is if, in order to advance, you have to repeat the same boss level (no matter which) again and again and again?
What reason would someone have to do clockworks, now that the game is a race to profit? The only thing to do are bosses run this way!

--(Oh, for a second let's not talk about real money, since I used Mobile method a few times but noticed how it at the same price gives less ce. Since right now I'm evaluating, for scholastic reasons, if making myself a credit card or not, I'm in a sort of temporary limbo, since it would be stupid by my side to spend the same money for less when I could just wait a bit more.)

Since I do not have only profit in sight, I do clockworks anyway, but I advance really slowly, mostly because it's uber-hard to find someone in tier3 that actually does them (Since they're in King of Ashes somehow..), and with my 4 stars equip it's kinda hard after the terminal to go on alone.

Then if I would like to have something 5 stars, as Im a tier3 newbie, the only way to progress is JellyJellyJellyJellyJellyJellyJelly and Jelly again? Or joining stronger players to King of Ashes (and repeat)?

I refuse such a distorted machine! Why then not erasing completely pack brutality, concrete jungle, everybody's fired and so on if they're useless? Let's leave only bosses missions! Why don't eliminate even Haven? We can start already in the boss mission to save some time!

To me... they should block bosses' missions replyability and/or make clockworks (and thus clockwork bosses too) slightly more profitable than missions, to me this isn't the same game I started anymore... not that changes are to be avoided but this changes are... dystopical!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 05:12

#31

Tersakaff

LOLNOPE 8500 (it was 9000 when I logged off)

And I agree with this: "To me... they should block bosses' missions replyability and/or make clockworks (and thus clockwork bosses too) slightly more profitable than missions, to me this isn't the same game I started anymore... not that changes are to be avoided but this changes are... dystopical!" But only if the CW will give enough to sustain ourselves. :3

Personally, I've crafted everything I could want, and now I'm only spending money on.. err.. well I always find something. So CE price is irrelevant and a higher price might even benefit me.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 09:42

#32

Snowdusk

In my opinion, the CE price

In my opinion, the CE price can be said as stable, but currently, it's tipped on a balance (is that how they say it?). Following the new contents, it will either fall (in great relief), or rise like never before and reach the highest record ever (*drastic organ tune*). I really don't wanna be the witness of watching the CE price booming to 10k cr; that's simply hysterical even if you try to mention it to new players...

EDIT: After reading Il-Ladro's comment, I agree most of what he says. The gates are almost of no use if we were to talk about profit. Their meaning is fading, it's no longer like the gates we know before. But, I never said that missions are bad entirely. If the players habitually go to the missions, then let it be. Let them be bored out themselves. Only machines and robots can spend their whole life repeating the same mission levels over and over again. This leads me to a reminder: lay down your burden, forget about getting the better gear. Go to the clockwork gates, and just have fun. Experience Spiral Knights like what you had did before. Don't succumb to greediness. If CR or CE is all you want, you're missing out what's out there in store for you. Eventually, you'll feel that Haven no longer carries the same excitement you have: when you were stepping into that busy town from the very beginning as a new player...

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 10:42

#33

Softhead

To be honest,

I will GREEDILY play the ARCADE version of RJP over TWO days!!!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 11:41

#34

Bekjan

I don't think the prices rise

I don't think the prices rise only because some players do FSC or RJP.
In my opinion CE market is heavily influenced by the rich players who craft tons of stuff. Some people can craft up to 100k CE. Just check out AH buy out prices( most 2* items are worth 1k crowns ). So blame rich players who hunt UVs. Another reason is that there are not enough P2P players.
Please craft using mist only, don't use CE to craft.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 13:29

#35

Il-Ladro

Or maybe...

Maybe they should make the boss missions different, just a request for the module.
Not necessary just possessing the module, the mission could be just a request to go in the clockworks and defeating said boss, this should avoid the super-recycling, I guess...

After all, you could have had already the module even before making the mission, so plot-wise it was kinda weird. This would be less weird, also less abusable.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 14:20

#36

Eltia

Food for thoughts

You do not need to waste your CR in CE market. You can waste them in UV lotting and sell the good UV's on AH for an incredible amount of CR or through personal trading for CE. The quickest way to make a lot of CR in this game is through trading CE for it. Result: as long as there is a good incentive to waste a lot of CR within a very short period of time, CE needs to be traded at lower value to increase liquidity.

Result: guess what, CE prices drop. The problem is that people are wasting CR into CE market, instead of producing something of value that the CE sellers would trade for.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 19:14

#37

Pdtopgun

Just start spreading the word

Just start spreading the word around Haven: don't trade for CE right now. Hold onto your crowns, use them for UVs or recipes or whatever...just don't buy CE with them. These prices won't sustain themselves if no one's willing to get screwed over by them. Heck, we could probably get a decent-sized protest going.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 20:37

#38

Thich

That will never happen, Pdtopgun. There isn't enough organization, discipline, or desire.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:48

#39

Pdtopgun

I think the discipline is

I think the discipline is becoming less of a problem every day...as people start getting completely squeezed out of the market, they won't even be trying to buy anymore. Hell, I have a ton of stuff I'd love to craft, but I've bought all of 100 CE in the past month; if I can do it so can anyone. As for organization or desire, that's where getting the message out comes into play. Seriously, just go into Haven and put a few lines in zone chat.

I mean, I know it's a pipe dream beyond pipe dreams, but it's at least worth a shot. It's a hell of a lot better than sitting on our hands and waiting for OOO to fix this horribly-broken mess.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:55

#40

Demonicsothe

People are getting squeezed

People are getting squeezed out of the market? Which is why ce manipulators are actually losing money by buying their own ce. And when they stop raising it themselves, they'll have done nothing but lose money to the fees. I call bs.

Just because you can doesn't mean everyone else can. Just because you are doesn't mean everyone else is.

i still don't get why people think this is "broken".

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:59

#41

Pdtopgun

Um...because it's pretty much

Um...because it's pretty much impossible to advance as a lower-tier player at this rate without months' worth of grinding? Because the price of CE has skyrocketed over the course of just a month or two? Because the game has an infinitely-looped crown source that pays out far too much, with no corresponding crown sink to offset it? Seems pretty darn broken to me.

And yes, there are obviously some people still trading for CE, even though I would label said people extremely foolish. But I figure there have to be people other than me out there who have said "screw it" and have just flat-out stopped.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:01

#42

Demonicsothe

Able to profit on RJP?

Able to profit on RJP? Check

Able to grind and achieve whatever you want? Check

Still don't see how it's broken.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:43

#43

Pdtopgun

If grinding the same two boss

If grinding the same two boss run missions ad nauseam is the only practical way to advance through the game, then Spiral Knights truly is dead.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:52

#44

Metagenic

Amen.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 01:05

#45

Gameface

Nothing to see here

This is going to sound somewhat pedantic, but there's a minor typo in one of your paragraphs that makes a rather notable difference.

Quoted from your opening post, from your figures on FSC:
100Mist = 2 runs (not including the boss)
Each run = 8000CE but only costs 50energy (assume you need to revive oneach of the runs once)
Now look at that. You are able to buy 100 CE, after only using 50CE!
And that's not even including using the boss tokens at the token exchange. Each one of those are worth 1000cr each, and you get 3 per run if you do the boss!

I believe that should say 8000 CR. 8000 CE at your hypothetical figure of 8000 CR per 100 would be 6,400,000 CR. That would be quite a large sum for any area.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 03:37

#46

Vluxor

=.=

You guys need to grind more!!! while i play the actual game and complain about not getting new content for the game.

anyways here is some information:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am_iqCBXErtCdDRYZEFUYXpLQ2w...
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Talk:Energy
http://setdekov.xtreemhost.com/2011/09/04/5/

the ce market has always been going up, down and peaking at various points. this is a pretty accurate chart created by other people from august 2011 to now.

if you look at the history, it always peak up to 7.5k to 8k. when it does three rings releases a promotion or something and it goes back down. three rings messed up on a promotion this time and that's why the ce market is going above 8k. never mind the people putting a wall on the market, being greedt and etc... if you guys really want you can go back and look at the patches/announcements and match the trend up until you are satisfied.

the market isn't too bad, just play the actual game and stop worrying about money. don't complain other people being greedy when you are also greedy.
if it was really that bad three rings will take further measures or find a way to fix it.

right now the market is only 500cr-1k cr off from it's peak. it is not too bad. if it strayed off by 2k cr, then the market is truly screwed up because it is not following it's natural course.

i didn't correct my grammar and i don't care

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 07:46

#47

Aumir

I will "grind the game" when the game doesn't limit you for playtime. Buying CE to keep on playing just makes matters worse.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:38

#48

Incineron

.......ITS OMG 8.7K all The

.......ITS OMG

8.7K all The F2Ps are doomed.

I estimate 9K in 2-5 days.

F2ps are doomed. Sure you can do King of ashes, but 3* and less players cant get to 4* for a long time now.

Like, im 4*, but i cant get any partys for FSC, and I haven't got access to The KoA mission.

When i do get a party, its more 4* people, thankfully i have skill, or we would die from fire with no one reviving

Actually, i prefer to do the RT levels now. They give about the same amount as JK. but when CE does reach 9K, the amount of CR from them is measly. theres about 1000 cr profit, but theres the occasional death decreasing your profit. Ridiculous.

A year later: I remember when CE was 9K..

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:45

#49

Vluxor

@aumir

@aumir
if the game didnt limit your play time, YOU WOULD BECOME A ROBOT! DUN DUN DUN

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 01:05

#50

Asukalan

Please, tell me how the CE is

Please, tell me how the CE is stable at 8k while its now almost 9k?

CE will never be stable. CE will always go up, some times slower or some time stable.

Search

May be late but... To all CE ragers: the market price of CE is stable at 8000cr per 100CE