POLL: Should the Hall of Heroes sell recipes?
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 16:36
I've seen plenty of complaining on this topic and found myself that Basil is reduced to a mere purveyor of boss recipes every once in a while.
So:
A. No, the HoH demeans the game
B. Yes, Basil is worthless anyway
C. Just the Cobalt ones
D. I don't care, I just use the AH
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 16:48
#2
E
E: Yes, at inflated prices much like the weapon/armor vendors in Haven.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 16:49
#3
Yes, and no
I like having only certain recipes available at the HoH. The basic recipes that can take you through the game. However, I like the incentive to go on Basil Runs for a huge profit. Seerusly, it's like 14k for a 4k Twisted Targe recipe.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 18:26
#4
How about
a "Yes" because its effective and "Yes" because basil is fun and "Yes" because AH is fun
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 19:17
#5
Yes, it should. Having the
Yes, it should. Having the vast majority of recipes in the game be trapped behind a pure-luck barrier was extremely silly in the first place. Like, is there any other crafting-centric game on the market that operates that way? TF2 certainly doesn't.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 20:33
#6
@Pdtopgun
You just hate
@Pdtopgun
You just hate challenges, and you are comparing SK to TF2.
This game has been dumbed down because there is no longer a constant market of recipes. There are less player interactions. We are just interacting with NPCs. And no, there is no luck barrier if you are willing to buy them in the past from players that were actually finding the ones you want.
People like you complain and get this game more dumbed down dangit. Guess what? You killed the Arcade. Thanks. This game has been DUUUUUMBED DOWWWWWN. Anti-social people, I swear.
By the way, I cast my vote as "A" because I am not fat and lazy and anti-social.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 20:46
#7
SPOILER ALERT: THERE"S CONFETTI
Yes; I <3 the confetti on the very last HoH
And having all the recipes there makes life sooo much easier (and makes getting "rare" recipes from Basil more fun)
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 20:55
#8
yes and no
I believe Hall of hereos is very good, but it is the main reason the arcade has died so Im split.
I guess B if I have to choose.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 21:53
#9
Nice trololo there, Rawcake.
Nice trololo there, Rawcake. No, having to rely on third-person sellers to get anything but the most basic gear set is a fundamentally broken system from a game-design standpoint. OOO obviously wants people to use the various weapon types they've put into the game, but having those only be available via Basil or from a 10k-marked-up auction is directly counter-productive to that. The boss item recipes are more than enough...the rest should be available wherever and whenever. Again, have you heard of any crafting-based game that hides away recipes in this manner?
And the only reason the Arcade is "dying" is because way too many lemmings are obsessed with farming the hell out of FSC, instead of just enjoying the game. Though if you want to assign actual blame, it would probably be directed at OOO for allowing rank missions to be infinitely replayable with the same payout, or maybe even for having boss missions be replayable in the first place. A few simple tweaks would get people in the Arcade without breaking a sweat.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 21:58
#10
"10k-marked-up auction"
Only
"10k-marked-up auction"
Only things marked up that high were shiver line and other popular equips. Only reason recipes now are marked up 10k is because not many people run clockworks, and thus not many people encounter Basil to buy the boss recipes. Actually, vog and skolver weren't marked up that high unless the market didn't have any at the time and people really really wanted to buy that one last recipe for overpriced.
Besides, before missions and HoH, you had to go through basil most of the time, thus finding the recipes anyways at lowest price. Or resold recipes until you had enough to buy the one you wanted from ah.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 22:02
#11
...which, again, is a silly
...which, again, is a silly mechanic for content that's the fundamental basis for the game's existence.
Mo, 06/18/2012 - 22:32
#12
Well...
Personally I like the convenience of the HoH but I think having it sell every recipe but the boos recipe is a little overkill and it stops people from running the clockwork which is where half of the game design and level happens. I'm more fore taking out everything but the basic recipes and having them back into basil again. Sure price would be higher but it would also be lower for other recipe likes the boss recipes since there will be more people running the clockwork then the missions.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 05:35
#13
Your answer options don't have mine.
HoH is the best thing I've seen added to the game yet. Recipes aren't there to make players rich, they're there to upgrade stuff. That market gone is no loss at all. Yay OOO!
They even did a poll asking what keeps people from upgrading most (with recipes and ce being options, among others).
I remember needing a dusker coat recipe and AH only had one for 150% the price. No thanks.
Now it's just special items.
Btw, Arcade isn't empty for HoH, HoH could be just another place to go to like Guild Hall. If it's empty it's because of missions.
I like arcade now and then, but not with all shock or freeze stratum. And more often lately, I prefer something shorter. I really liked the cake mission. (For being one level, not for being such a small place. 1 level that's longer - without all that empty space to run through like in most places - would be great. Or 2 levels.)
A 'save spot' option, even if only for terminal, would be great, too.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 06:02
#14
Moo~~
No.
Personally, I love going to Basil and trying my luck with him. Having HoH just makes the game easier.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 06:28
#15
Random chance bad. More recipes= lower odds.
I played before the introduction of HoH or the auction house, and in several cases I waited literally weeks to upgrade items because I couldn't find one stupid recipe. And meanwhile, my gameplay was distorted and forced into less desirable early tiers for Basil runs. For WEEKS. That was a truly miserable experience.
About the only positive aspect was the thriving recipe resale market. By charging a 10% markup during the beta and paying for terminal invites, I earned enough in a few weeks to fund a significant portion of the wiki documentation effort. Sometimes I resold a dozen recipes in just an hour. The HoH definitely improves the player experience, while preserving the rarity of certain (boss) items. It's a good balance.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 07:53
#16
Quite Honestly
Quite Honestly that's exactly what ruined the CE market in the first place.
What is used to be was were we did daily expeditions to basil in T3, we had numerous parties set up and all parties would get a bunch of recipes.
Then we made a hefty profit , Hence those recipes were in demand.
Currently with the new interface , I would think that instead of making those recipes readily available, why not use some certain amount of prestige that you have allocated from grinding certain levels? Problem is, it makes too much sense to do it that way, but it would collectively lower the price of CE altogether, maybe not to what I remember which was roughly just under 4K per 100 but, but at least something more reasonable like 6K perhaps?
Although this is not by no means a quick fix, but given some time, the demand for rare recipes would raise again, and expeditions to basil t3 would flourish, Making the value of crowns more reasonable, then at least you can make at least 300-400 CE, which would be decent.
"Don’t worry about the future; or worry, but know that worrying is as
effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing
bubblegum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that
never crossed your worried mind; the kind that blindside you at 4pm
on some idle Tuesday. "
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:14
#17
I think both sides have considerable merit.
The game is simplified by having recipes readily available. More convenient, but less interesting; less stressful, but also less interactive.
To me, the REAL problem is that people don't have enough incentive to do Clockworks runs in general. That will only change when Clockworks runs are made to be similarly or more profitable than missions of the same tier.
That ALSO means making the Firestorm Citadel worth just as much as everything else!! Seriously, it's a fun challenge your first time around, but it's hardly that difficult anymore with proper preparation (which is all too common these days). It is NOT worthy of the extra crowns you can get there. Name me five people who can solo FSC without dying, then name me five people who can do the same with the Gauntlet...
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:19
#18
Crafting machine should be
Crafting machine should be situated in HoH and it should be possible to buy only one recipe, and only once.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:37
#19
~
"to buy only one recipe, and only once."
Rich people can afford that, at least up to 3* without too much trouble. Might take a couple of days for 4* and I admit defeat for 5* (but I'm not rich :p)
You're only punishing weak ones.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:36
#20
--
You see....
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:48
#21
Juances, i mean that it
Juances, i mean that it shouldn't be possible to buy few the same recipes or learned recipes.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 10:56
#22
"No, having to rely on
"No, having to rely on third-person sellers to get anything but the most basic gear set is a fundamentally broken system from a game-design standpoint. OOO obviously wants people to use the various weapon types they've put into the game, but having those only be available via Basil or from a 10k-marked-up auction is directly counter-productive to that. The boss item recipes are more than enough...the rest should be available wherever and whenever."
Sounds like what the wimpy majority / the people who want this game to be hello kitty island adventures would want.
Easier and less complex and less player interactions =/= more fun.
Quit wanting to dumb down this game to a mission button.
+1 for getting rid of HoH
Di, 06/19/2012 - 12:07
#23
Another A
A! Definitely A.
As an AH user I just love to use it for recipe exchanging, this would make it again more competitive.
Even C to some extent makes sense, but anyway you get those recipes with missions thus it's kinda already established that the cobalt set is the default set to get as you progress.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 12:46
#24
A
A
Di, 06/19/2012 - 12:47
#25
-
A/C
Di, 06/19/2012 - 13:05
#26
A and C.
A and C.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 13:14
#27
I'm Split A/B
If most of us are choosing to go back to just cobalt. Then were just bringing back the old Kozma....
Di, 06/19/2012 - 13:16
#28
F
Leave it as it is.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 13:29
#29
E
They should cost, like, 2x more than Basil. Or at least 1.5x more.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 13:30
#30
@ Rawrcake
...how does having to purchase recipes on the Auction House count as "player interactions"? Pressing the "Buy Now" button there requires the same amount of interaction as buying the recipe in the Hall of Heroes. Interaction comes from actually playing the game with other people, not creating a secondary market that shouldn't exist. And considering how hard I've come down against FSC grinders, the idea that I'd want to reduce the game to a mission button is pretty absurd. Even with the decreased profits, most of my game time is spent in random Arcade runs.
Does the HoH make part of the game easier? In a certain sense, yes. But it's a part of the game that should be easy in the first place. The only people who gained anything from having recipes hidden behind random-chance walls were the people who already had them in the first place.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:03
#31
none of the above, I would
none of the above, I would say keep HoH the way it is and that basil is useful for the boss tokens recipes, as it should, maybe moving some of the more specialized recipes to basil only, but I think it's fine the way it is.
Having to go on basil runs 3 weeks in the hope that you find that recipe to move from 3* to 4* or from 4* to 5* is not a challenge, is just grinding.
Paying a higher price for a recipe in the AH is not a challenge either, again, you just grind for gold more time and buy it.
then people wonder why so many just grind FSC for the money.
If there were missions that would guarantee a specific recipe, with a difficulty appropriate for the specific recipe, then I would say don't sell them in the HoH, but basil recipes are just a fight vs the random number generator, which is not fun, nor challenging, just tedious
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:06
#32
@PdtopgunYou must not have
x. there goes my juicy post explaining how to be more social on recipe hunting that people used in the past :,(
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:35
#33
Removing the recipes from the
Removing the recipes from the Hall of Heroes doesn't change the fact that most of them are also available in the mission lobbies for various missions from Basil.
Does the HoH make part of the game easier? In a certain sense, yes. But it's a part of the game that should be easy in the first place.
Quoted for truth. This game isn't "Extreme Recipe Hunter." In a game where you already have to pay to craft items, pay to get the recipe, and (indirectly) pay to get the crafting materials, you shouldn't have to spend a week or more looking for a single recipe. And relying on other players to get the recipe for you can occasionally result in markups of over 100% (like the 14k three-star recipe mentioned earlier). More importantly, the HoH likely increases the number of players crafting items (since they can just go get the recipe they need right away), which means more energy is used, which means more energy needs to be bought, which is money for Three Rings to work with.
Rawrcake, I know you want this game to be Contra, but it's not. Some of us don't want to spend hours upon hours trying to challenge ourselves, and would rather just play the game. If you want Nintendo Hard go play Mega Man for a while.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:05
#34
@Eldibs and
x. there goes my "I give up" post :,(
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:37
#35
Different opinion
Missions in general ruined the game. I am a fan of having the ability to easily do boss runs, but everyone can, so it overall killed the economy of the game. In my opinion, don't blame the Hall of Heroes, blame the mission system and especially elevator passes :(
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:39
#36
@maharito
five players who can solo fsc and gauntlet without dying
-Me
-Masterboss
-Amosso
-.... ok I admit I can't think of anymore haha.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:39
#37
@The-Rawrcake
lol, are you calling Dibs anti-social XD
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:05
#38
I said @Eldibs and friends,
x. there goes my witty remark :,(
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:43
#39
I have plenty of friends in
I have plenty of friends in game, I'm GM of a guild that always stays above 90 members and is quite active (Maybe you've heard of Reign of Chaos?). The problem is that I'm not going to demand that my guildmates and friends do recipe runs for my benefit, and I refuse to pay an extra 10kCR for an item that can be purchased from an NPC for 25kCR. Either I have to pay more by doing recipe runs to fetch the recipe, or I have to pay more by outright buying the recipe. Either way I'm having to pay more to fight a random number generator, and in a game where you already have to pay for everything else, that's incredibly frustrating. I don't play to challenge myself, I play to enjoy playing.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:44
#40
the HOH just makes this game
the HOH just makes this game alot easier, but at the same time, more frustrating and boring for people who like to do arcade.
the arcade used to be a place where you could meet new players, have fun going through different levels, but now, all people do is KOA, KOA, KOA, KOA, KOA, KOA. not exactly fun. and now, if you want to get a boss recipe like lightning capacitator (3*), it was freaking 15k on the AH. that's like 300% the price. more than that actually.
AH used to be a place to buy recipes and armor and weapons. now it's only accessories, high UV equips, and boss recipes.
That's all because of the supply depot and missions being replayable.
so I would say A, because it makes things more challenging to have to get the recipes yourself, but also being able to find less popular recipes you can resell for a small profit.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:04
#41
"I have plenty of friends in
x. There goes all my points and counter points :,(
Di, 06/19/2012 - 14:54
#42
*Raises hand as someone who has soloed FSC and the Gauntlet without dying*
(I just can't do it consistently xD)
To be honest, Basil Runs were just... annoying. You just keep grinding your way to d23 over and over and over and OVER AND OVER again. It took so long to get the recipe you wanted. Screw social interaction. The only social interaction was people trying to use their friends to get a discount on recipes.
Anti-social? Sure I guess. However I think the HoH is for the better. It reduces a HUGE amount of irritation.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:03
#43
@ Traev, thank you for
@ Traev, thank you for accepting it and not denying it.
@my posts, I am deleting them all.
UGH you people.
I have to keep myself from getting another warning for being a "meany face".
my final post:
Learn to be social! Ask your friends to check around for basil recipes and help them out with their recipes as well! Get your whole guild working together on these things.
Of course, the above no longer applies with the HoH.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:10
#44
I'm not sure why so many
I'm not sure why so many insist that HoH killed the arcade, if anything, missions killed it, and it didn't killed it completely, only those obsessed with profits avoid the arcade, and probably most of the mission system anyway since they'll play FSC over and over.
I still know plenty of people that do arcade runs (myself included, though right now I haven't played in a while because of diablo 3, I will once the danger missions are in), if you want to meet people you can still go into the arcade, there will be less people than before, but those who no longer enter the arcade weren't going to be people that wanted to meet others anyway (otherwise they'll go into the arcade) so you are not losing much, and the new looking for group feature should help you meeting new people without worrying if they are in the arcade or the missions.
Having the recipes readily available doesn't turn the game into hello kitty adventures, monsters are not suddenly easier because the recipes exist in the HoH, it just means you can progress faster and face the harder monsters in Tier3, if anything hurts difficulty is the nerfs the monsters have been getting, some warranted others just baffling the mind
@the-rawrcake
I disagree here, I did plenty of basil runs without meeting anyone, I payed for basil invites when they were possible, and did random runs meeting people without focusing on basil, if someone wants to meet people in game, they can with or without basil runs, if someone wants to play in a more secluded antisocial way, they can also do it with or without basil runs, and if anything I prefer to meet people in runs to the core or boss runs, as those will go through harder levels and I will actually get to see how the others in the party play there.
antisocial people will remain antisocial even if you force them to play a certain way, and I'm always against mechanics that force people into a specific gameplay (not trying to imply that removing the HoH will force people to socialize, since I believe it won't)
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:17
#45
Above all, I'm just sad to
Above all, I'm just sad to see yet another market in this game be diminished. All materials but shadow lair ones are just a nudge over the line of worthlessness. Crafting has gone down the drain with unbinding fees. The only decent markets now are those who horde promotional or event items, the CE and CR exchange, and the extremely more luck-based UV market. >.>
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:22
#46
Material market worthless?
I beg to differ. There are still a few mats that go for 2k to 4k at times.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:27
#47
@Traevelliath
Factoring in the time it takes for them to sell with the extremely low demand and the AH fee, 4k CR isn't that much. How many materials do you think the average player has sitting in their inventory not being used because it isn't worth taking the time of AH fees trying to sell them off?
Di, 06/19/2012 - 15:58
#48
EH EHM
Materials and playing
EH EHM
Materials and playing with the auction house with materials is one of the ways I always suggest new players to constantly make crowns even while out of energy.
Materials are not broken, just not hugely profitable for an experienced player.
Di, 06/19/2012 - 16:29
#49
^^^^^^
I agree, I used to make a lot of money off selling all my materials I got in FSC runs, but now, I just sell them all to the vendors because I don't have the time to put them on the Auction House
Mi, 06/20/2012 - 01:03
#50
A. No, the HoH demeans the
A. No, the HoH demeans the game
Recipes market belongs to players. Hoh ruined one of the main source of profit for players. It was step to direct more funds to OOO by limitings players oportunities to earn crowns/CE. With the recent update which helps players to jump right before basil floors with great ease the recipes market is almost nonexistent.
Weapons in SD cost less CE than unbinding, recipes are sold in HOH and now its much easier to jump only for basil floor. Now its the matter of time when all SD items will be bound, when the materials will be bound on picking them up and when every single recipe will be bound on purchase or maybe even crafting weapon will make it also bound. Then we will have Auction House removed or turned into "featured auction showoff house" with some silly OOO justification "its for the greater good, we know better what players need since we spend more time in the game /just like with past increase in unbound cost"
A
You get cobalts from missions anyway.