Spiral Knights - And this is how you convert a supporter to a hater

And this is how you convert a supporter to a hater

280 replies [Last post]

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 19:26

#201

Serell

...

Yes, I have done that. There are still many people that would not have know about the petition if it was created in Suggestions.

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 19:37

#202

Luguiru

Those concepts applied to all players and did not divide us by weapon preference.

The change to shard bombs was done with Lockdown "balancing" and bomber "balancing" in mind and they made them awful intentionally.

What if this was their next update:

"Hey guys, we decided Sealed, Brandish, Autogun, and Pulsar lines are relatively equal to the old shard bombs in balance, so here are the changes we plan to do:

Sealed line charge attacks no longer fire projectiles for 4*+ variants

The initial swing on Sealed line charge attacks does 50% of its previous damage

Brandish line charge no longer creates explosions following the initial swing

The initial swing on Brandish line charge attacks does 60% of its previous damage

Autogun line charge and basic attacks now only fire half their previous clip sizes

Autogun line damage per bullet for the basic and charge attacks are now half of their previous values

Both Pulsar branches now only have a single shot clip

Polaris line damage nerf by 30%

Pulsar line bullets no longer expand or explode

We are also lowering all sword damage by 30%.

To compensate we are suspending everyone with a Skolver item on their knight for eleventy-derp days and removing all UVs from said items. We hope you enjoy the game and buy lots of energy, herp derp."

It must be fair because your precious Three Rings says so, right?

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 19:38

#203

Byas

but with the logic you use I

but with the logic you use I guess they should of listened to every suggestion posted

You should stop putting words in my mouth, I never said that they didn't listen to suggestions (after all I even liked the way they handled things before certain updates) but about how they ignored the testing feedback (if they wouldn't listen to it why ask in the first place) and an 8 pages long petition about the item that came from the failed test server (even after the discussion about how that logic for removing RSS was flawed, discussions about how to make the RSS more "bomb-like" for them, among other things. They didn't even bother to give us an answer about those things) and didn't even give a formal apologize about the UV tickets spamming.

if we are going with the idea that petition goes with all the players that hate the bomb that means it does not account for well-over 2k+ players, so I guess they all love the bomb.
Sure, let's just delete the whole suggestion forums then. There aren't 2k+ players in the forums so we shouldn't consider anything that's there, right mr logic? :)

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 20:01

#204

Njthug

When you see me move when I get down tonight

@Serell --- Yet still not over 500+ people I mean a petition should show more than majority or even half the playerbase at least. (Since we are not that huge of a community with over millions and millions of players.

@Lugiru -- I like this what if game:

What if the Amazon Cloud servers were destroyed by a huge animal of some sort and Spiral Knights, Netflix, and so many other services were down.

What if Three Rings removed energy from the whole game

What if Three rings and Sega gets bought out by EA

Ooo so much fun with this what if game

@Byas --- They never ignored the petition since its not even a real petition (Oh and its not filled with 8 pages of why the bomb sucks). I did not get Boswick in Eos after this game went public...life is tough we move on...not even a dam apology, oh guess I did not move on. Sorry for putting words in your mouth tho I did miss-read what you posted before. Suggestions are suggestions no real support is needed for them if the staff reads it likes the idea changes it up etc. and add it on its cool, but a petition is a formal complaint against a person or an object (Could be others I can define it formally if you wish), but a petition serves for change (8 pages is not great especially if all 8 pages are not even people filling out the petition correctly), and a suggestion is just suggesting an idea does not mean all ideas will happen.

Okay I think I will take a break for a few hours will play Sk done reading resumes yay

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 20:12

#205

Luguiru

That list of obviously exaggerated nerfs and your reaction was basically how bombers took the shard bomb change.

How do you like it?

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 20:14

#206

Byas

They never ignored the

They never ignored the petition since its not even a real petition (Oh and its not filled with 8 pages of why the bomb sucks)
Although it started as a petition it became more of a discussion about the shard bombs, with that I can agree. But there were discussions about how flawed the logic behind deleting the old bombs was, suggestions on how to make them more "bomb-like" according to the said flawed logic and even people asking for elemental bombs since they had zombies UVs on their RSS and got a piercing bomb instead. But sure, ignoring all of that and acting like all they did was perfect is the right thing to do.

but a petition serves for change (8 pages is not great especially if all 8 pages are not even people filling out the petition correctly)
Yep, it was more like 8 pages of people asking for answers about the points that I just said, but still no answer (considering the usual amount of pages per topic on this forums 8 is a lot, even more if they just want a simple answer that OOO refuses to give).

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 20:34

#207

Fehzor

I love how these threads go from everyone-agreeing to everyone-fighting-with-NJThug so quickly.

But of course, I do love a good fight with NJ-

1. The high, active, end of the playerbase that should have a say on the bombs has had its say. There are very few players who feel the shard update was 100% successful, and the sheer number of players who have said something versus the sheer number whom have not said anything should tell us enough to see that the players in general don't like the changes. It shouldn't take 1/2 the playerbase to show that a change was 'bad', as more than half of the "playerbase" consists of shoddily clad F2Pers that are just here long enough to reject the game- let alone judge the balance of the bombs etc. found in the game.

2. The bottom line with the amateur petition is that the players did not like the shard bomb change. You know very well that by petition he meant more of the term 'informal petition thread', being a sort of vice found on the spiral knights forums, as it is used after most large updates to show widespread disapproval amongst players whom care about the development of the game. That alone should go to show you the state of the game... and given that many of the players that do 'care' about the game leave when threads mocking their complaints show up en masse, 8 pages should show you much about the disapproval of the playerbase. Furthermore, you should know that it shouldn't matter whether it was a "petition" or a thread containing "complaints", because each shows the same thing- disapproval.

3. As you say, the arguments provided by the players are more important than the player's reactions to the ideas. For instance, most knights would agree to "removing the energy system". This argument serves 2 purposes- to point out that the number of players that care don't matter, and to point out that logic should prevail. However, there are a good many arguments that go towards the shard bomb petition, and very few arguments for why the shard bomb petition should fail. That the devs "always know best" is not always true, as they are just people. In essence, this ideal can go both ways- towards proving that "Suggestions are suggestions no real support is needed for them if the staff reads it likes the idea changes it up etc. and add it on its cool", and that "The high, active, end of the playerbase that should have a say on the bombs has had its say." The bottom line in this case, is that the devs have ignored the arguments given by the playerbase, and that the semi-intelligent portion of the playerbase that cares and isn't here to troll us has came in and spoken- and OOO has ignored it a second time.

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 20:41

#208

Venomousbiohazard

How many devs

Does it take to successfully break an RSS? ALL OF THEM! WORKING THEIR BUTTS OFF! FOR WEEKS! ....Just so that they can achieve the right level of cruddyness so that the bomb is totally useless. Non working stun? CHECK. Full pierce? CHECK. Stupidity? CHECK. Not giving a flying snipe about the playerbase and community saying the bomb sucks? CHECKEDY CHECK CHECK CHECK.

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 22:15

#209

Hollafamer

@milkman

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/36307

Regards to Promo items on Featured.

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 22:45

#210

Xxpapaya

The papaya is amazed

Amazing how many new posts there are in a matter of hours =). Anyways, gonna reply to some of Zeddy's comments (AKA one XD)
Yes, I have done an FSC run with a shivermist thank you very much. But I was talking about KILLING (excuse the caps) vana with a bomb. I've never seen someone kill him with just a shiver.
@Hollafamer "Examples of not making good on promises"
They promised? I don't remember XD Would be nice if you could send me a link

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 23:04

#211

Serell

papaya

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/62008
There

It took real SKILL to use those old shard bombs on Vana... something I was hoping to learn
.r

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 23:57

#212

Milkman

Posting smileys in brackets is awkward

I don't see how that thread does anything but validate my arguments, Holla. Thanks for bringing it to the surface. Nick summed up the problem perfectly in his two posts. He's also acknowledged that his statement can be misread and has endeavoured to word things more clearly for future updates. What does that second post show? Acknowledging the problem and rectifying it for future promotions (that one's for you Byas =) ).

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 01:38

#213

Byas

The only problem

The only problem is that it was before the "bad updates wave" (which happened almost at the same time that they decided to stay quiet and pretend that nothing happened... that is unless you can find a formal apology about the UV tickets spam ,an answer to all the questions at the Shard's petition and an answer to why older players should pay to get short/tall and some accessories while new players don't) but yeah, I agree that I used the wrong wording since there was a time when they were more humble. Congrats. :)
EDIT: I read it again and I just acted like a jerk before editing, sorry about that (some times I just let the anger take over). :X

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 01:52

#214

Zeddy

@Milkman

Yes, I have pointed out specific situations where bombs are unusable, such as these two:

-Why do enemies become invincible if you're good enough at comboing them? Is punishing skillful use fine?

-Very often enemies get hit by only one shard despite them being humongous and supposedly being in range to be hit by three shards. Is this fine? How is 'skill' supposed to do anything about that?

Which are very specific and only applies to every enemy in the game no matter where you fight them. Is the "specfic situation" you're referring to the one where I am hitting the enemies well with as many shards as possible? Is that supposed to be fine?

How many other weapons can you name where most of its effect and damage is completely lost? I can think of the vaporizer bombs against status-themed enemies and DR against mini jellies and battlepods. Vaporizers make up for it by having a humongous, persistent, 100% status inflicting radius and DR makes up for it by doing an insane amount of damage to any targets it can affect, which is all of them except for two very special cases. Meanwhile, shard bombs are severely disadvantaged against:

-Trojans, who make shards disappear
-Maulos, who makes shards stop short
-Vanaduke, who makes shards stop short
-Battlepods, who makes shards stop short
-Bombies, who survive a shard blast or two just fine, and will then proceed to run back into your face
-Crusaders, who outrun you and will be up in your face long before the shards detonate
-Things that are inside tight corridors where the shards will disappear
-Things that are behind chest-high walls where the shards cannot pass
-Literally any enemy, since shard-hit limit can decide to troll you no matter what you're fighting

And what advantages does shard bombs have to make up for it? Can you even name any area these bombs excel at or is it just "fine" against the targets where it isn't gimped?

Caliburs, blast bombs, cutters, troikas, pepperbox, blasters and pulsars are fine. They can be used for anything, anywhere without bugging out and without doing 50% of the damage of comparable weapons. The dropoff from specialized to neutral damage on shard bombs is far too large to justify having a normal variant that doesn't have any buffed damage whatsoever.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 03:52

#215

Eeks

ZeddyThey can be used for

Zeddy

SSS is decent against greavers. The combo is actually somewhat elegant but you still need 2-3 full bomb cycles to kill them which is too slow considering how fast toothpicks and needleshots, hell, even nitronome/dbb kill greavers. It should really only take one combo to kill them instead of requiring you to risk several bomb drops.

Zeddy

Yup. Other normal damage weapons are perfectly fine. The bottom line is that the specialized damage shard bombs are barely competitive with their bonus damage compared to normal damage weapons and their base/neutral damage is a complete joke. This makes all the specialized damage shards completely one-dimensional. They're "usable" but far from optimal against their respective weak family group and completely unusable against everything else. Doubly penalizing a weapon without giving it some major advantage against the two families it is "strong" against makes no sense to me but then again we're talking about bombs and bombs are notorious for having a ton of downsides with no upsides (I'm looking at you BAB w/ long fuse, slow walk, slow charge and just enough damage to still kill in the same amount of hits as a nitronome in some depths).

Also, I think saying they do 50% of the damage of other weapons is being a bit generous. To put it into perspective, from a standing start, you can hit something w/ nitronome twice at D28 for 460 damage. In the same amount of time the maximum damage you can do with the normal shard bomb is 273 damage (75+99+99) but most likely you'll either deal 75 damage, 99 damage, or if you're lucky 198 damage. My clears weren't 100% slower with neutral damage shards; they were upwards of 166% slower than nitronome/DBBvsneutral! The normal shard bomb is, by far, the worst weapon in this game. I'm not even sure how anyone can defend it with a straight face.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 05:07

#216

Zeddy

@Eeks

I've found a few advantages of shard bombs, but I'm trying to get Milkman to state them. His defences are very general and give the impression that he's more out for trolling than actually presenting valid arguments in favour of the bomb.

Shard bombs don't other have comparable weapons, really, so the 50% number was compared to its specialized counterparts. Looking at the wiki, I'm noticing that this giant difference between specialized and normal damage is present for guns, as well. It appears to be an inherent problem with the damage range these weapons are dealing with. In the respect of damage-level and being blocked by everything everywhere, the new shard bombs are more gun-like than the old ones were.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 05:26

#217

Skyguarder

Your all too funny and silly

This is probably a thread where people hate Spiral knights already.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 05:41

#218

Acck

Aphrodite Update.......

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/58425?page=8#comment-531294

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 08:53

#219

Milkman

Zeddy,

Right so a couple of things here:

I've already stated multiple times that I feel that the bombs are not ideal, and that they could have been improved with one or more of the many suggestions offered by the player-base. You seem to be fixating on this 'fine' word which I've apparently used once. Fine in that they are usable.

Secondly it would appear that it is you are the one 'trolling' if you know that they have advantages yet argue that they have none. I've read your discussion with Eeks in the bomber thread, regarding their merits. I don't see how you can take issue with my method of arguments when yours is just as flawed.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 09:03

#220

Skyguarder

I thought proto bombs are the worst bombs ever.

Sun shards is only 2*, so if you don't like it, try a new bomb.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 10:15

#221

Tersakaff

Nj's "grammar" and "logic" are so putrid and deluded that I think he is mentally challenged. A kid in his twenties who thinks hes the coolest in the bunch and spends his money on a mmo spewing nonsense in an almost unreadable manner while constantly flirting and making sexual innuedos at evrrything that moves. Disgusting.
I mean even I bother to have at least decent spelling and grammar on the forums.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 10:26

#222

Zeddy

@Milkman

They have plenty of areas in which it would be pretty tough to call them usable. We've been using 'fine' in the same sense. I have not argued they don't have advantages (though the present ones are severely understated), I was asking you to present them. Which you haven't.

@Benightz
Proto bomb covers the same area as shard bombs, but goes off faster and has a pretty nice chance of stun. The stun bug is pretty awful, but it works nice enough as long as you don't stand directly in front of the enemy. If we're also including its cousins Cold Snap, Firecracker and Static whateverbomb, I know which I'd bring to Lockdown between any shard bomb and Cold Snap.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 10:41

#223

Eeks

Benightz I thought proto

Benightz

It's pretty telling that you have to dig deep, all the way to 0-star, to cherry pick a bomb that performs worse than the normal damage shards. ;)

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 11:21

#224

Oceanus

Game Master

Keep it productive

This discussion has good points at its core. Please remember to argue the ideas and avoid personal insults or inflammatory language. Thanks!

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 11:24

#225

Hollafamer

Hmm

I am very impressed with how much attention this thread is getting. Rss bomb discussion is really the main reason this is still going.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 11:38

#226

Byas

Well it was one of the worse

Well it was one of the worse updates (if not the worst) we had so far, it's normal for it be the main topic on a thread about bad updates.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 11:40

#227

Clueless-Inferno

I remember this game, and all

I remember this game, and all the wrong turns made from when lockdown was first implemented (when I started) to now.

Then: Lockdown, first off, was so damn fun. It was hilarious watching the things people typed, lighting people on fire, trolling, knocking people into shock pads, and everyone pretty much had a good time.

Now: From what I can tell, it was how it was when i quit. Lockdown elitists and try hards with their No-life maxes out weapons and armor pretty much dominate the game. Unlike Freefall Tournament (THE BEST free online multiplayer game I found), you can't really succeed as a noob at all, and you end up repeatedly dying. (Freefall tournament pretty much has separation depending on skill level.)

Arcade:
Then: Everyone. Literally everyone used the arcade. Rarely and kicking from parties, meeting new people, kicking butt, etc. All awesome times.

Now: Arcade pretty much has no one playing there. Just finding new exploitations to get money, kicking newcomers in their parties, only FSC is being used. But missions pretty much screwed the social aspect of the game. I would be willing to bet back then, if a proto noob asked a vog UV maxes out person to go Jelly palace, they would say yes. Now it's probably "F off." And the proto noon turns out to be a pro in disguise.

I don't know if anything else was added since I left, all I know of are the missions, arcade, and lockdown.

Over time, random updates have caused some of the coolest players to leave. The one I remember is Nicoya, after the pay wall. Shadow keys blocked FTP players from experiencing the game past Vana, accessories were a useless crown sink, and I don't feel like remembering the rest.

I wanted to see this game become awesome. When I started, I thought it had so much potential. But now, it's all messed up. The only way to revive this game is to:

1) Listen to the players, AND actually implement what they want. Customer feedback is one thing, but DOING what the customers want is another, which is what is lacking in this game.

Anyone remember the brandish patch they pulled out of their butts? No one asked for a brandish buff, but OOO decided to do it for some reason. During that time, people just wanted a stats change in underused armor. What if people complained that a house company's doors weren't fitting, and the house company instead came out and said, "We have windows for sale now! Better than before!" That's what happened here.

Sure, the Devs listen to the players. But they don't do what they want.

To OOO:
This is what will make players happy and not bored again:

1) New weapons. New ways to kill enemies and each other is always a welcome change for players. As long as something dumb isn't done (like make weapons P2P exclusive or ridiculously OP or UP).

2) New maps. I believe making new maps is an awesome way to get player's attention even more. Like, just make free for all lockdown map or a cool multi-level arcade map (with climbing and going underground). If they didn't waste time making useless patches like kitty armor or some BS like that, they could really make something cool.

3) Listen to the players, AND do what they want with your own tweaks.

I know some smart [wheel] who knows everything about the world will flame this, but they can go F themselves. I really want to see this game grow, it has so much potential.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 12:21

#228

Njthug

I am no angel I like it when you do that stuff 2 me I like it...

@Fehzor --- I started to read your post then...I realized its way 2 long for me 2 handle <69. So I just skimmed through it real fast just some thoughts:

Many people who do like updates (yes I am not alone) do not wish to post on the forums to be mauled and insulted for no apparent reason. Many forum users from Beta alone stopped using these forums since they hated how the community of the forums was just turning into a bunch of ________ <--- Phrases I do not care to mention, but let just say its not the best environment.

As far as that petition goes since many tend to use it as a basis of argument to show how many players hate the bomb:

1. It does not even show 1/4 of the active player-base in this game.
2. A lot of the posts are just people raging against each other.

I do agree those shard bombs are not the best bombs in the game things I would like to be fixed on them are:

1. Damage output
2. Second burst should be exploding faster.

I disagree with allowing the old RSS to come back in the game.

Also the forums show such a small amount of player base I would keep that in mind.

@Tera

Hey baby I am sorry that Eos declined to love you more than a few-times, but you just are not our type. Do not take all your anger out by name-calling <69.

@Hollafarmer --- Naw I seen threads become more crazy than this lol.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 12:17

#229

Hollafamer

yea

@NJTHUG
ya some of them mine lol. Ya I don't know why you are getting so much hate atm. Your like a NY knicks or Toronto maple leafs fan. Historically they are great teams but are struggling to get back to the top. Nothing wrong with loving your team(000).

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 12:38

#230

Byas

I do agree those shard bombs

> I do agree those shard bombs are not the best bombs in the game things I would like to be fixed on them

What happened to OOO is perfect and they don't make mistakes? :P

> As far as that petition goes since many tend to use it as a basis of argument to show how many players hate the bomb:

1. It does not even show 1/4 of the active player-base in this game.
2. A lot of the posts are just people raging against each other.

1. Still it IS the official discussion forum about the game, if majority of players there dislike something they should look deeper into it since most of the player base doesn't even know that the forums exist (and if they don't post here it doesn't mean that they like the new bombs nor that they dislike). Even more if the said players throw plausible arguments but need to hear the devs side to conclude if they those arguments are indeed right or not but they just keep ignoring them.

2. Mostly raging at OOO not at each other, but there are also good arguments there that are getting completely ignored by OOO for god knows why.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 13:41

#231

The-Pint

Type type typedy type

So much typing in forms :P

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 14:44

#232

Acck

At this point........

I am just happy Aphrodite took the time to have a discussion.
Having a chat was kinda a big point of contention.
I may not have agreed with or liked some of the the things Aphrodite said,
but the point is she actually took the time to interact.

So, let's all go fill up those F2 logs!
Inundate I say!
Fill 'em to the max.
More F2 is better F2!

So Finger number 2 away, that's what ooo wants, that's what we give!
Frankly, I will happily give them the F2 all day long for these bombs.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 15:54

#233

Saberyoko

Well I think...

As one of first gamers of this game, I can tell you:This updates are the worst in all games I ever played.
The player and gm relationship on this game is poor , and the update is almost used as a obligation than natural occurence.
Most of suggestions takes a lot of time and others are simply ignored.
Most of problems are diverted with pathetic excuses...
Theres one thing that you guys need to learn...this game is made and moved by the gamers, who play and can say exactly whats bad or good for it...if there are no gamers, there is no game.
Want to know how to make players happy? Please, just try to look on the forums...try to talk to them instead of just advertise or just remember to them to play by the rules.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 17:53

#234

Tersakaff

This thread makes me giggle.
Im looking at a mass of protesting people who instead of holding their signs up for OOO to see they are smashing it on eachothers heads then Oceanus suddenly comes with one saying "stahp" (and promptly smashed it on my head im amazed he didnt knock me out for hitting ooos handkisser if you know what i mean) and quickly runs before we catch him. Its so funny if you think about it.
/e runs in the crowd

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:03

#235

Iamnoone

I'm still giggling too Tersakaff.

Well put.
/hands you the popcorn

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:05

#236

Roarr

rage, more rage!!!!

Nj is doing an excellent job at keeping this rage thread alive and active.

~i'm luving it

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:28

#237

Njthug

Boy you got it bad, but I got something good =0

@Roarr --- Hey if they want to rage its funnier when they all rage about me liking a game I play since we should all be hating the online game we play.

@Tera --- It is pretty funny a game master telling players to follow the rules...I dont see the comedy, but hey at least your happy.

@Holla --- Eww the Knicks no more linsanity its all about the big 4....sadly I am not Canadian so I dont follow hockey <69.

@Byas --- I never said they are perfect, but never said that this game is dying or horrible either <69.

@Ganon --- I agree with your list of weapons that need a buff that portal gun be epic lol.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:44

#238

Tersakaff

Where does he get his subject lines?!

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:44

#239

Pdtopgun

Let's try this again

I'm gonna play Game Design Opinion for a second time here, because I'm seeing some really crappy suggestions/insinuations flying around, so here it is:

A game development company should never, and I mean NEVER, implement features in a game just because a certain number of players are asking for them...or to put it more broadly, they should never make overall development decisions solely based on the whims of their fanbase. That way lies ruin, and it's proven as much multiple times in the past. Now as a massive caveat, this isn't to say that a developer should never listen to fan suggestions. There's a proud tradition of fan ideas becoming well-liked and appreciated additions to games, but the key is that the developer should consider only those suggestions that fit within their overall vision for the game and demonstrably improve it. It should never get to the point where the system becomes development by mob rule. I'm not saying that non-professionals can't criticize professional works, but at the end of the day, OOO are the people doing this for a living, not us, so their word goes. I think something that's happened on these forums is that people have seen Nick and the other devs being fairly accessible (indeed, far more so than most other game developers I've come across), and they've equated that with the right to have a direct say in the overall game development, which...isn't really how things work.

As far as the shard bombs go, I don't really have a dog in that race, as I didn't have or plan to get the original RSS, and I'm not a pure bomber in the first place. (I'm not a pure swordsman or gunner either, for that matter.) It does seem that OOO handled parts of the transition poorly, particularly the status switch on the RSS that people already owned. The new shard lines certainly have room for improvement too, and hopefully they'll see them one day. But from where I'm sitting, the sheer level of vitriol that's been generated by the change, often going so far as to seem like flat-out entitlement, is substantially out of proportion. I mean, at the end of the day, if you as a player relied on a single weapon so much as to have its removal absolutely ruin the game for you...well, that seems like a very boring way to play to me.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 19:01

#240

Venomousbiohazard

hmm

@topgun Actually, us bombas never used it as the ONLY weapon. But it was the only bomb that could get into those nooks and crannies, and snipe turrets. It took a lot of skill to use the bomb, and it was extremely fun to use. It was really our ONLY bomb that we had to hit switches and kill turrets, and it was a fun and different bomb. It is not entitlement, to them it is like losing the toothpick and turning it into a proto sword, or losing a polaris and turning it into a proto gun. As to your point about the suggestions, if everyone in the community is complaining about the bomb, everyone on the test server thought it was buggy and useless, and yet it was still implemented in the game. Sadly, whenever I think of someone coding the new bombs this images pops up in my head: http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP It was a bad decision, and in this case it is actually good to listen to the community.

@Njthug I do not understand you. I wish I could understand you.

@Purgion Yes, freefall tournament was awesome, until tanks got only flamethrowers. Horrible game now. However, in this game you did point out things that are slowly destroying the game from the inside out.

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 18:58

#241

Byas

> I never said they are

> I never said they are perfect, but never said that this game is dying or horrible either <69.

> How long does it take to Develop an apology for mistakes made?
We will find out once they make a mistake <69

But if they never had made a mistake there would be no need for a fix and they would be perfect.

PS: I got what you mean no need to explain nor anything, I'm just pulling your leg with this post. :P

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 21:07

#242

Eltia

@Venomousbiohazard

> http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP

When I looked at this, I chuckled a bit and this quote came to my mind: "Eat your own dog food".

So which bring us to this question: hey Dev. do you even play that shard bombs you created, or the old RSS, at all?

I mean really, Wiki already have data supporting the new shard bombs are inferior. This is not about "we can't change things just because enough people complain about it". It's about "your new feature isn't up to par, not to mention your decision to remove a perfectly good feature isn't entirely adequate neither".

So Dev, how many hours (total) did your team spend on actually using the shard bombs?

Sat, 09/15/2012 - 23:48

#243

Fehzor

@Njthug

Lol... NJ, I addressed all of your concerns in my post that you replied to without reading, and you used the same arguments, but agreed on something :/

I find it rather hard to take you seriously when you don't read what I write, post with little regard to grammar, contradict yourself and constantly make sexual references... I'm not trying to be insulting, but at the same time, I feel a bit trolled every time I read your post.

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 00:53

#244

Jade-Rabbit

Go dogs GO

So ppl resort to criticizing his grammar now... Keep it up Nj there running out of juice.

Also stop being such horrible girlfriends that criticize every little thing your man does wrong. Sure he messes up a lot but if you don't like it find another boyfriend that will put up with nag nag nag. Maybe he was just thinking about how beautiful you are making the new rss. It's so pretty, useable, and big(size does matter)

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 06:13

#245

Enclavean

For me, the unbelievable thing Three Rings did was....

The Asian Server.

Putting all of us into our own little corner, a pitiful little place of our own where we can play on pair with everyone else. We cant even keep our gear, the very thing we have worked hard for is all going to waste. My 100 days of in game time going to waste, having to be treated as a mere noob over there due to lack of the same gear we have on the new server. Our other choice? To play on a pathetic excuse of a connection and lag like there is no tomorrow.

So Nj, whats your defense for this? I'm sure you got a way to defend OOO here too <69

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 07:54

#246

Venomousbiohazard

To Enclavean

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 07:56

#247

Njthug

Cause you gonna love, you gonna love again

@Fehzor --- I do apologize, but sadly I do not have the time to read every post since many are directed at me. I actually understand why Three Rings rather not post since it honestly feels like if even if they posted their point of view you guys will still be arguing with them which will lead it to be a never ending argument. I can easily agree with you my grammar is not the best on the forums, but I would have to say I really never cared for forum grammar at all. When it counts (at work or in college classes) my grammar is very sexy. Yes, I did contradict myself saying that everything in this game is perfect (but if you do know me as a player which many of you don't) I also do dislike certain things in Spiral Knights, but only difference is (I am saying this without meaning to insult anyone) I do not cry and whine like a 5 year old child about it sadly in the real-world to get something done acting like a baby does not work.

@Venom -- It is okay that is why I offered classes to teach you guys about love since many of you lack it. I am certain that the reason you lack this trait of love is because someone in your past must of hurt you, so you are scared to put yourself out there again.

@Enclavean --- Simple, Sega + Three Rings made a smart BUSINESS decision they realized they wanted to expand their market to the players in Asia, but most likely looked at the #'s realized its far too expensive to make servers in Asia, so they gave their game (most likely just licensing and allowing them to re-skin or re-do artwork for their demographic area). Now, you may be upset about not being able to move your account to this Asian Spiral Knights, but that was most likely a decision made when Sega and Cybergames (I think that is the vendors name 2 lazy to check) . The whole thought behind it is if you hated this game or disliked it due to lack of connection on the normal servers you would of quit, or you would of waited until they launched the Asian servers. Your two options are simple tho:

1. Play on asian servers have better connection (but restart)
2. Keep playing on the regular servers and deal with the connection (I am sure if you spent 100 dollars so far you actually knew you were dumping your money into a game which never once said they will be expanding their servers to Asia).

@Byas:

The bombs are pretty dam cool, but to have them more useful I would agree with the two points I made, but I would not call that a mistake.

"Sure, and they have all the rights of being offended. But why answer so fast to a mockery/joke and completely ignore important things? (yeah, I'm looking at you, shard bombs test server feedback)."

Yet, you fail to see how they are learning from their past:

1. Danger Missions
2. Uv Tickets (Yes you hate on compensation), but this was the first time Three Rings did anything of this sort for players who previously had x-weapon and they added change to it.
3. Trojan bug-fixes

Also what you think is important is not necessarily important to them. Why post on a topic which is filled with half the players not even following the rules, or not willing to listen to any sort of reason. As much as you think you are entitled to answers sadly you might not be.

@Tera --- Music please listen to some it might teach you how to love.

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 08:04

#248

Grittle

@NJ I HAVE ENOUGH LUV, I NEED

@NJ

I HAVE ENOUGH LUV, I NEED GOOD UPDATES, NOW

Now scrub all the floors in hyrule, then we will talk about luv

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 08:12

#249

Alynn

I love my new SSS(salt, not sun) >_________<
but it sucks.

Sun, 09/16/2012 - 09:30

#250

Serell

"Also stop being such

"Also stop being such horrible girlfriends that criticize every little thing your man does wrong. Sure he messes up a lot but if you don't like it find another boyfriend that will put up with nag nag nag"

Woah, when did we become OOO's girlfriends? Uh, no thanks. Yes, everyone makes mistakes. But OOO needs to acknowledge their mistakes and apologize.

"Maybe he was just thinking about how beautiful you are making the new rss"

It's pretty obvious it's a nerf, and that he doesn't like bombers. Swordsmen and gunners get the choice of AoE or single target DPS, while people that like bombs are stuck with AoE. They have no choice. Oh, and gunners also have a gun for people that like shooting stuff but not range (Blitz). We've got guns used up close dealing more damage than a sword, what was so bad about using a bomb up close dealing more damage than a sword?

"It's so pretty, useable, and big(size does matter)"

1. Pretty is an opinion. I prefered the look of my old ISB, it was my beautiful baby. Now it is a piece of plastic. We could have easily had these new bombs be a new line to please more people, instead of taking away one and giving another that is nothing like the old.

2. Usable..... ohreally? LOL. Care to tell me where they are usable? I bet you can't even say these are good for LD, and remember, these had LD testing, and if that testing wasn't just a money grab to get people to pay to test, they wouldn't have shoved these bombs on the main server before making changes, for it was pretty obvious that these bombs were the worst for LD. Sure, you can say they made a mistake and blah blah blah. But that doesn't mean they should be all silent and ignore us. I think bombers deserve a sincere apology from Nick for turning their best PvP bomb into the worst, and he should let us know if he is planning to make these bombs better.

3. Big.... I don't know what to say to that...

Also, what they did to the Asians was pretty horrible, to. I don't think that is something they can change, but they least they could do to show that they care would be to say they're sorry.

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