The SK staff would have to keep all their UV roles on record. That would get huge, so how the heck could they know what's been rolled? If that is kept track of, does that mean my record is filled with cutters from mist crafting?

When did this happen

OOO

Doesn't care. I would like to say neither do I....but I do. T_T

But I can no longer support OOO, spiral knights, or it's community, as all three are intertwined. I'll make it official later on, when I have time to do it right. Until then, I'll see you all in haven for just a bit longer :(

NO! rommil!

Rommil will recieve lots of "can i have your stuff" mail xD

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85qgbSzsb1rq8yjk.jpg

Have a sort of auto save function, and a roll back would be done by resetting it to this point. Sort of like the "time machine" function on a MacBook. Idk, some one more tech inclined than I explained it on here once. And that's how my un-tach-minded brain interpreted it. And even if it's a heck of a lot of work, if they cared about their product they'd do it, it would be worth it for the integrity of the game. But they just informed us, this game has no integrity.

It's too much effort and work to do the right thing, so we won't.

@ above. Tell me how to support the community in a way that doesn't support OOO? There isn't one.

Rollbacks do a lot of damage as well. It essentially is reversing time, and a lot more people will be negatively affected than people being "fixed".

You'll get rid of all the cr that were made (and have since been sunk or banked away anyways), but you'll also be stripping countless people of their Krogmos, heat, cr, ce, UV rolls, lockboxes, trades and sales etc.
It may not have been a long time, but considering how many people play, that's a lot of innocent stuff that'll be erased.

People are going to be upset no matter what Three Rings does, so what should they do? Make this group of people upset or this group; it's a difficult decision to make

Less had they went down for maintenance 3-4 hours ago when it was first suggested.

Mismanaging one situation is not rectified by mismanaging another.

The time being erased would rob me of promo stuff, multiple accessories and UVs that I got legitimately using money. I can't speak for the others who more than likely spent money as well on the game during the time period in which these things happened.

Yeah, at the end of the day, it does suck that crowns were introduced into the market illegitimately, but I'll be damned if that's worth punishing everyone for the actions of one person. They've already confirmed that a majority of the crowns earned through this exploit have already been thrown into the UV market anyhow, and the market for that crashed months ago.

Any idea how much happens in an MMO in five hours?

Alone, I made handfuls of Krogmos, did a few runs, in which I heated up items, made a trade for a UVd item from the forums, farmed recipes from Basil. That's not time I want thrown away, especially since some of it can't be simply "done again".
And that's just me.
You also get people rolling UVs, opening lockboxes, finding rare mats or items, making trades etc...

In the space of 5 hours, there's a hell of a lot more legitimate activities that people won't be happy about being erased. How many people have posted here demanding a rollback? A dozen? What about the triple digits amount of people who didn't want a rollback and would rather their progress be remained? Don't be so selfish; you're going on about how OOO doesn't care, but you clearly don't care about the numerous other people who disagree with you, and just want the rollback for your own, personal reasons.

Fact is, you lost nothing, and damage to the economy will be minimal. You're mad because someone hacked and did what you've been working to do. So what? That happens; it's over now.

That's like saying you've been a hard-working businessman all your lilfe and made millions. Then you read the paper, someone robbed a bank - AND GOT CAUGHT - and you say "screw this folks, I quit /suicide". Seriously, get over yourself.

I take a few week break for Borderlands 2, check back on the forums, and find another one of these.

Looks like I continue to be correct. OOO doesn't give a damn about the integrity of the game. Sunk via Punch. Hardly. Even then, I'd wager the abusers would make a pretty penny off of the good stuff rolled. Unless Eury is telling us that it is literally impossible to make money off of Punch.

I kinda figured I'd quit at the next one of these; a "fool me once, shame on me" kind of thing. But now I refuse to quit because that is exactly the kind of thing OOO wants. For you all to forget. Well, I refuse to let you all do so. I shall be a spectre on these forums and continually bring this up. UV ticket fiasco. CE market manipulation. Don't forget, lest you allow OOO to continue of this path.

I kinda wonder how many similar incidents have happened in other OOO games. Is it just the SK division that straight up hates the spirit of their game, or the entire company?

@Doctorspacebar
One guy can cause catastrophic damage to anything felt by many. I'll point to history for vindication. But even then, it's not only just "because of one guy." It's the entire response by OOO to this, and other such things. As Pawn/Rommil argued during the UV ticket thing, OOO is not harmed by this, at least in much of a discernible way. But their inaction to this, to upholding the integrity of the game, speaks volumes. Do you really want to support a dev that gives absolutely no damns about their game?

@Darkbrady
And that is why the smart thing to do is taking the game offline until it's fixed. But that would cut into OOO profit margins. Can't have that, now can we? Integrity don't mean a goddamn thing if you hope the playerbase will just forget about everything in a week.

And as for your bank robbery quote, no. It's like a counterfeiter got caught and executed, but all the people that got the counterfeit money can still use it.

Post removed. Please do not post false claims about a support action on your account. You may use the Support Email form if you would like to discuss this further.

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I was stripped of all my belongings after 1 month of perm ban for which I had to beg to get my character back .. all that for a bug that fell onto me.. true story. Many people that were there back then know about it even Rommil mentioned that bug that happened about a year ago.

False Claims ??? You don't like that I relate my TRUE story so you simply remove my post ?? Bravo, shows again how OOO handle things. I'm not surprised no one signed that Post removal, I'd really love to know who's calling me a liar.

I think everyone that takes part in this thread should be given somthing from 000 rings are people will have a heated relationship with this game and the team.

Thats just my proposel and my opionion which im intidaled too.

Salutes all my fellow and ladie knights :D

Yeah because a major hack exploit is no reason. :p

Someone robs a bank in your city, do you expect the authorities to chap on your door and hand you over free stuff?

Hell, what if *ahem* someone in this thread was one of the people who benefited from the whole fiasco...and then was given compensation mail?

Rommils head would explode.

Bringing it offline may have been the solution, but there is a threshold of time before that's applicable, including finding out whether or not it's legitimate or not

Judging by Eury's posts in this thread (thread creation to mod post), that time is about an hour and a half (and that's assuming OOO wasn't doing anything about this before Eury posted). I'd say that's well within applicable range.

And as for quitting, at least when it comes to this game; this is two separate times OOO has botched up a major exploit. I find them less committing suicide as much as heading for the lifeboats. Why devote time to a game where some people can cheat their way to whatever, but not others? And don't try to compare this game to real life too much. Most people play games to get AWAY from the injustices of the real world. Escapism, ehwot.

I'd also like to point out that this hinges fairly majorly on the PRINCIPLE of the matter. Doesn't matter that it does nothing to OOO, and that we'll only be feeling ripples for a time. And feel them we will. Only "half" the money (or whatever) was destroyed. We still have half a problem. I'm kind of interested in what the buyouts of the featured auctions are gonna be for the next week or two.

But yeah, like the ticket fiasco, too much damage has been done to expect OOO to fix anything. They had the opportunity to run damage control but didn't because... they just don't give a damn, I guess. Certainly what their actions say, and actions speak FAR louder than words

A pity.

If you're worried about cheaters, you really shouldn't play games. There'll always be hacks, cheats and exploits and there will rarely, if ever, be a good solution to it that makes *everyone* happy, especially when some people are just looking for an excuse to whine. MMO devs will always be the bad guys in some peoples eyes.... If the guy just kept the money to himself, it'd be easily fixed, but he literally threw it across the world; that's not as easy a fix, at least not without pissing off another group of people altogether. Six and half a dozen?

And it's hard not to compare it to real life, because all the problems we want to escape from (greed, cheating, dirty moods etc) don't come from life, they come from the humans who play life. And it's humans who play the game. The only way to "get away" from the crapitudes of life is to play a console game. You do not play an MMO to escape life, you play it to interact with others, which invites in things like this, so it's really only your own naivety that should burn you when this type of thing happens, if you were genuinely expecting everything to be unicorns and rainbows.

But yes, the one good way to make sure that you aren't negatively affected is to just...not worry about the AH for a week or two. Shouldn't be too hard, right? Just go and, dare I say, try have fun. Play LD, run the CWs etc. Put merchanting on hold and you won't feel even a breeze of the effects of this, and won't have to worry about a thread (much larger than this one) about people raging about a rollback that they didn't want, care about or even know why it happened that erased their trip.max UV.

I feel as though the bigger problem here is that OOO isn't taking suitable actions for players who were able to massively benefit thanks to an exploit. Even if the initiating player was the only one who took advantage of the exploit, many other players also indirectly profited from said exploit. And if OOO isn't willing to try and rectify that, what's stopping more players from trying to cheat the system in the future?

Regardless, there's no possible fix now. The only possible fix there ever was was a rollback early on. But rollbacks are restorations of database backups, and databases are not constantly backed up. For all we know, they'd have had to reset it to 5 am this morning, and there was never a rollback window to start with.

Either be satisfied that they did their best, and it sounds like they did, or vote with your money and never buy CE again.

But a large number of the crowns were quickly spent. You can't take away crowns that people don't have.

As I said, it's too late for a rollback now. I sure as hell am not arguing for one now. No, the game shoulda been shut down once this thing came to light, the exploiter banned, then everything rolled back. Maybe lose an hours worth of progress. Not too bad. Given player demographics, this being a weekday and all, I'd definitely say not too terribly many people would be effected by rolling back an hour vs leaving illegitimate cr in the market and undermining confidence in the economy in general.

But now everything is too broken to fix. OOO will just try to sweep everything under the rug. Again.

And as for the ATM thing, we sure as hell expect those who picked up the money to 1) know better and 2) give it back. I don't want them banned, reprimanded, or even warned. I just expected everything restored to status quo. But as already stated....

And what if the rollback would have been 6 hours when the thing happened in the first place? We don't know when the servers do backups. For all we know it could be midnight once a day, i.e. 11 hours prior to when it happened.

There is such a thing as over-extending a metaphor~

Point is, those who benefited are not to blame. Fact is, the market was simply not going to sit there at 10m and have no one buy. If an ATM did randomly spit money out into the high street, people wouldn't just ignore it...it simply doesn't happen.

I do agree that a good faith effort would be in order, but feasibility is an issue, too. You can't tell how specific their logs are, for all you know they just know that around the time 500m cr showed up in the economy, Punch made a 300m killing. Simple deduction tells them that most of the crowns people benefited from were just sunk straight into Punch.

I do think its' pretty unfair that they got all the UV rolls they wanted for free, and a heap of free cash, but that doesn't affect me negatively. I, however, would be furious if there was a rollback and I'd lost a day, for the sake of repairing someone elses ego.

@Lykqid/Guyinshinyarmour: I maintain that the principle here is regarding the much larger number of people who will have opposed the rollback, over the small portion who benefited. Either action will wrong someone (and have them accused of having no principle) so it simply comes down to offending the fewer number of people. Right now, people demanding a rollback are far, far fewer in number. You can go on about principle all you want, but ultimately SOMEONE will feel betrayed, and like hell the devs are going to allow that to happen to the majority group. Just because you feel wronged, and you feel that there's no principles, doesn't mean there's far more people right now who feel they made the right choice and that there were principles.
Also, you can try compare to "better" games all you want, but no game is perfect; you really can't expect much more than this, not unless there's some kind of divine intervention that prevents bad things from happening to that game...

Either way, this debate's going nowhere anymore, and nothing else will be done; there'll certainly be no rollback, so I'm headed to bed for the night, so I'll just finish with Kalaina's line:
Either be satisfied that they did their best, and it sounds like they did, or vote with your money and never buy CE again.

Or /metaphorical suicide~

if they are using a database to store the game data, which i presume is true.
then everything is logged in transactions, each alteration of the database is logged, so they can actually track where each crown went.

it's still a massive effort to go through the logs to isolate those fake crowns, and i guess that's what you guys are arguing about.
if 3 rings is going to spend the effort doing that.

also the analogy should be 'counterfeit' money, not atm spitting out money or robbing banks. as someone said earlier.