Energy prices very high, won't this get worse?
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 11:23
Hello there!
I've been playing Spiral Knights for some time and just few weeks ago I started playing it again.
I did my normal things, wasted my daily energy and what not, and then I was going to cash in my crowns for some energy to get that lovely sword I been looking forward to getting for a long time. It's and 9k crowns for energy!
At the last time I played, it was like 4k, isn't this a bad thing to keep having the cost of energy keep going up?
Well, it is bad! Only one word can describe what's happening...
Inflation!
Yep, the price of goods, or in this case energy, is growing so high that it takes a whole dungeon run to get 100 more energy. (Or close to it, I always go with my friend and I believe that the crowns we get is higher.)
I don't ask for you guys to stop buying energy and just waste the daily energy you have. I'm saying that at the rate that's going it's going to get out of hand.
I just want you guys to look into inflation just a bit.
We could just set a price for energy, like 5k crowns for 100 energy. Or lower the price of energy by taking the market and dropping it 4000 crowns, but that can change back because some moron wants 229700 energy and holds the price so it can't change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
I know Inflation has it's pros and cons, it's just something everyone has to look into.
(At least we don't have hyperinflation.)
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 12:30
#2
Depending on how truthful they want to be, the guildhall update may or may not lower prices. It's going to be a crown sink for the wealthy, IIRC, but I'm not going to get my hopes up because odds are something about it will cost CE.
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 12:31
#3
Blame Boss missions.
BTW, this has been mentioned SEVERAl times by others.
Seriously. People say it when it's 9 8, 7 or heck 6K!
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 12:53
#4
There's too many of them!
I am sick of these threads.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/338/661/14e.gif
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 12:57
#5
Lick
Here's an idea, how about instead of sitting on your butt and whining, you do something about it? If you want 5,000 cr per hundred, buy CE yourself and sell it for 5,000 cr per hundred. OOO doesn't choose the energy price. It's a market controlled purely by players.
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 14:36
#6
It feels...
like a market controlled by too many players desperate to move higher in the game.
It'd take quite a coalition to get new & longtime and poorer & richer players to agree on a universal CE price. ;-.-
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 14:45
#7
The papaya is confused
Personally I don't see the point of these threads.................nothing is accomplished in the end.....................nobody goes away happy. In a way, this is what these threads are saying: "I don't want this to be like this, so I'm gonna whine and whine and whine" Knock knock people, this isn't a huge problem, instead of sitting there on your butt all day eating a papaya. Why don't you either 1. Find a more suitable solution than whining and complaining OR 2. Go in to the clockworks and earn crowns. It isn't all that hard
@ Spaghetti-Knight This MMO wont live much longer with you telling people to quit and give up
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 14:52
#8
@OP:
It's player-controlled...no reason to complain about it.
The GH Updates will likely be a crown sink, which will lower the price a little. Probably not much though, maybe for a couple days.
With the Punkin Event ending and less people burning CE on PK runs, I suspect the price might go down a little as well.
But there's no huge crown sink going on, and people will resume their KoA spamming, so the prices probably won't change a lot.
I'd guess they won't go much lower than 8k : 100.
~Sev
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 15:26
#9
I think part of the reason
I think part of the reason might be that less people are buying ce with real cash
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 16:12
#10
.
Only way the CE prices could get worse is when more people complain about it on the fourms.
Tyvm
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 16:53
#11
Here, let me explain to you
Here, let me explain to you how this works:
Game is new, lots of people join it, like it, want to progress, buy CE, support this shiet, there's a huge supply of CE since it's a easy-to-get resource and no big supply of Crs since the game is new and nobody got the chance to farm yet.
A little way down the road...
It's now 2012, loads of people reached the cap, enjoyed all the content and got fed up with it, as such they stopped giving their support to the game and, in some cases, quit and moved on, there isn't such a big affluence of new players anymore thus less potential CE buyers more than that, during this whole time, loads and loads of people kept farming more and more Crs, vastly increasing the amount of Cr present in the game, the Cr sinks can't catch up with the increasing lack of paying playerbase, thus the CE price skyrockets to infinity and beyond.
That's how things are right now, there's one and only one way I can think of to improve the current situation, loads of players should start buying CE packs from OOO, flood the market with them by selling them at competitive prices such as 5-6kcr/100CE, force everyone to lower the price to the new standard, take all the CRs they made this way, start spamcrafting UVs on a Calibur until they run out of Cr and then vendor said calibur.
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 17:22
#12
My goodness... Another one.
How about...
Everyone realizes its a Free Market, and that Anyone with any knowledge of profiting in the game's CR - CE exchange knows that Anyone in 2* gear and higher has the means to break even with 9k daily on MIST and that anyone with access to KoA/FSC mission potentially can get 14k+ on only HALF of their daily Mist.
Basically, the price right now is the overall average CR intake per 100Energy used of ALL players needing, willing, and able to purchase CE to advance in the game further give or take a hundred, perhaps.
What that means is that if you're an average player from 3* - 5* equipment, you SHOULD be able to make 9k off of nothing but mist energy (which regens to 100 for free everyday, which means a minimum of 100CE profit per day.
So what you're saying is that the average player cannot make that much.
EDIT: Even if all you're doing is pointing out that CE will constantly rise..... that's kind of a "No duh" question. So long as more players gain more and more ways to maximize profits, via missions or otherwise, CE will rise to meet the equillibrium price that is the overall averge player profit of 100Mist daily.
And of course inflation, supply and demand, etc also fall into the mix, but I'm too tired to type and I'm eating dinner.
...
Can someone redo those calculations on RJP and KoA Missions we had a while back? I don't want to explain any further.
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 17:23
#13
@Xylka-Mkii
Ye don't have to deal with these people. Come, let's go to my bedroom.
(pulls miki into my bedroom)
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 19:24
#14
Ce Should be 15k Crowns For
Ce Should be 15k Crowns For 100 Ce that be epic!!!
Oh Also selling Ce in Trade Chat for cheaper price than market no1 buys so I guess the prices are not as high as you claim =0
Fr, 11/02/2012 - 19:52
#15
Wat Nj
Says the man with over 50mil cr's....
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 00:47
#16
There is far too much for me to say in one concise paragraph, and if I did choose to say it all you wouldn't read it, so I'm just not.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 03:21
#17
Just a though.
Why can't OOO just allow people to craft without the need of CE? Assuming it's cheaper to craft that way, not only the CE price would drop, but also would ensure that people will still be able to progress, even when the CE reaches the "infinity and beyond" price. And there would be a lot less complains, of course.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 06:05
#18
Funny
'' Why can't OOO just allow people to craft without the need of CE? Assuming it's cheaper to craft that way, not only the CE price would drop, but also would ensure that people will still be able to progress, even when the CE reaches the "infinity and beyond" price. And there would be a lot less complains, of course. ''
Because it would be stupid to do so.
I'm defnetly not the only one buying CE only to craft so Cutting this part away would let the company go down. No more Spiralknights at all.
CE Price will rise as the amount of people farming FSC rises. But with the time these people will have everything.
Thairfor I predict the CE price to go for 10-11k :D
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 09:20
#19
"Why can't OOO just allow
"Why can't OOO just allow people to craft without the need of CE? Assuming it's cheaper to craft that way, not only the CE price would drop, but also would ensure that people will still be able to progress, even when the CE reaches the "infinity and beyond" price. And there would be a lot less complains, of course."
Or Why can't you just spend a few dollars to buy Ce? Assuming you are not able to grind away with your 100 mist energy daily. If everyone did this not only the Ce threads would go away, but also the forums would be filled with less lazy people. And there would be a lot of less complains from the spaghetti-knight of course.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 11:29
#20
Hooray!
/e gives Njthug a round of applause!
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 12:09
#21
Njthug
>Why can't we give an alternative for f2pers to craft?
>Why can't you spend 2 dollars instead?
No, just no...
@Klear
I said once before somewhere and I say it again. Most people who buy CE on the market are f2pers, and they do nothing to give profit, and that's pretty much the only thing the idea will directly affect in the trade.
And it's a good thing because it severally cuts the demand out, allowing to make the CE cheaper.
People who buy CE will not be entirely affected except from the energy being less valuable, which is the point. They will still buy the CE like always, so I don't really think OOO will go homeless with this.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 12:38
#22
High? It is never high, even
High? It is never high, even 300,000,000cr per 100CE is not even high, it's still too low price :D Or at least some people say that when they see this kind of threads
So yeah, just sell CE at 12,000CE right now, cause that's not high :3 You could sell it at 20,000CE maybe you can get proft and people will follow you and then one day I will do it at 200,000CE =D
Remember guys, IT IS NEVER HIGH!
-----
Anyways, stopping my sarcasm.
Yeah, it's high and it will get worse and when it gets worse this game will have end its lifetime and no one will play it, heck even P2P will have to pay everytime they want CE because prices will be not skyrocket but galaxy-rocket that NO ONE will trade it.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 12:42
#23
Starkythefox
This, the inflation will kill the game, if it isn't right now.
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 12:47
#24
ˆ_ˆ
Capitalism is so lovely, isn't it? <3
Sa, 11/03/2012 - 13:04
#25
Politicksssss
CE is inflating? No way. Need moar business regulation.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 02:54
#26
Spagooderknight
So, the issue here isn't really energy, it's the fact that we are able to accrue more crowns and inject them into the market at a higher pace. You are correct in saying the F2P'ers are farming FSC and buying CE, causing price to go up. Thing is, if we remove energy, we remove the primary funding source for OOO, unless we move to subscription base. Once there, how do we craft new weapons? What do we need? Etc.
You are a smart chap, I've read your threads and while your titles need work, the main body is generally well thought out and I agree with you in at least part of your arguments. I propose this to you: instead of removing energy, simply remove the ability to run missions repeatedly. Bring back the clockworks. As we all know, the floors before the terminal don't pay out very well, so you end up with more mist (or CE) usage per crowns earned, and while this will not fix the economy, it would slow the rise of CE. I'd suggest hitting up the suggestions forum for other ideas, and also look for one of Rommil's last posts. He offered ideas that (at least to this uneducated gent) would actually help keep the game viable.
The one place i disagree btw is that the price of CE will eventually kill the game. It won't. Players can earn (currently) 15k/100mist as it stands. Until CE breaks that mark, this game will continue to be profitable (later stages) and even RJP pays out 11k/100mist. I can't see the game dying, i simply see players adapting, new players coming in and older players leaving. It's a cycle, and I don't anticipate much change to the system.
Best of luck Spagooderanmerberls! I do hope you stick around and continue posting though, eloquence and intelligence are sorely lacking on these forums.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 04:21
#27
y-you too, Hoban-Washburn...
Why do people always think I'm saying to remove the energy? I'm just saying to allow f2pers to craft without the need of energy, but still keeping the "traditional" way of crafting. There would be far less demand of CE from the part of f2pers that way. Not to mention it would make crafting into a POWERFUL crown sink if it's applied correctly.
That works too, but I suggest to do that only on boss missions for less inconvenience, and yeah, I suppose it can slow down a bit, but the damage has been done though...
Inflation has killed more mmos than you might think. I read it on this article posted by a fellow mate. And because the game is very dependent on the energy, it will be certain death if it gets even worse. Why? There's a point where grinding becomes utterly unbearable, specially when a game lacks new content. Trying to get from tier 2 to tier 3 takes around 20-30 days of grinding, for very little content. That can demotivate a lot of those f2pers, and they either start spending money to go fast, or simply give up. And most cases I believe it happens the 2nd.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 08:26
#28
So to assure that i understand what you are saying
> 'm just saying to allow f2pers to craft without the need of energy, but still keeping the "traditional" way of crafting. There would be far less demand of CE from the part of f2pers that way. Not to mention it would make crafting into a POWERFUL crown sink if it's applied correctly
What you are saying is to allow F2P players to craft with crowns instead of energy? Or just have no cost for crafting? I suspect it's the former, but I suppose if we were to make the crafting cost available with a crown equivalent, or a fixed price (say 20kcr/100CE) it would do what you say. would also allow those players to have the equivalent of an elevator pass, of sorts. Craft with crowns, run with mist.
The disconnect here is then why do we need CE? The game design requires CE, and your main complaint is the basis of the game's business model. Unfortunately in this case, without new content and a new, effective crown sink, CE will rise. I will be waiting and seeing what OOO does going forward.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 09:03
#29
@Spaghetti-Knight
This game is almost as dead as gremlin corpse. (A gremlin's corpse is very ugly.) The game will die by the end of 2013 or the beginning of 2014. (By then I'll probably be gone for unknown reasons.) I don't have school today because of Sandy. :) (In case you are wondering how I was able to comment at this time of the day.)
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 12:01
#30
@Hoban-Washburn
Yes, that's what I meant, specially with the price fixing but...
>20K for every CE pack.
There's literally no point of crafting at that price if with CE is far cheaper that way. The primary goal of this idea is to REDUCE the CE price, and for that, the cr crafting NEEDS to be cheaper than with CE. Otherwise people will buy CE for crafting like always...
In case of p2pers, they buy CE with cash in order to skip the grinding or selling it so they can get enough crowns for accessories faster, so the idea will not really affect them.
OOO said they're going to make guild hall, but I even doubt it will help on anything... Asides a fancier guild lobby of course.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 12:09
#31
d3rp.
*looks at p2player's comments
and this is why i don't like to associate with the P2P player base.
ill rather just lie and say im a F2P or something....
besides, i thought it was clear. If a game gets worst, you go find another one. I might leave in a few months and get another game. If that game gets crappy i leave it and go to another one. ETC. thats mainly the reason how i got to play Spiral Knights.
got tired of Free Realms and came here.
p.s. i have yet to try league of Legends.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 13:18
#32
look... it's simple
i worked
look... it's simple
i worked my way to T3 as a F2P (now a player who bought some elevator passes -> allready had four 5* sets and several weapons)
and i did it BEFORE the misions... so then CE would cost around 6K/100CE... now i'm hearing you say "whut? that's it? it's 9k now..." now read again... BEFORE the misions. 2 KOA runs will get you... i dunno let's say 12K crown? so IF you run pure on CE that would still be 3K profit... (+ the 12K form your mist)
oh and before i forget to mention this, i worked my way up with that tiny bit of profit. how? well work hard and play when you feel like it and have time, don't waste your ME (not a single day... buy slots for all we care but just don't waste it)
and there are other things to make money... but i'll leave those up to you people to figure out (most veteran players -> the ones NOT saying CE prices are to high know these small "tricks")
oh and 1 more thing... rome wasn't build in 1 day!
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 14:45
#33
Hur dur
Just suggest to lower the crowns given in a boss run. Simple.
Super players rage some but then more new players can get through to T3 easier.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 14:55
#34
Wouldn't be a bad idea lowering the FSC income.
It gives too much money compared with other regular levels. However, the damage is pretty much done now...
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 15:47
#35
@Spagooder and Autofire
Like I said; limit Missions to once a day. The mission system drove the price of CE up to where it is, it was fine prior to.
@spagooder unfortunately, that isnt how it would work re: crafting with crowns being cheaper than CE. It would ultimately remove CE purchases from the game. People would simply grind vana over and over, with no use for energy. People as a whole would take the cheaper option, even if it meant running more levels.
This would actually kill the game, the way you propose it. No profit = no game. This particular account I am using is F2P, I've had it for a month. All 4* with two 5* pieces, and enough CE saved for a 3rd piece. It is easily done. EASILY. Spend wisely, make good choices, and run clockworks to find t2 recipes that sell. While I believe the price of CE should be locked in at 7.5kcr/100CE, or something along those lines, I like the energy system itself. It's the player driven portion that is currently causing issues.
An option that my brother and I were discussing earlier today was such: Refillable mist. Use your mist, pay 5k(arbitrary number), recharge your mist. LImit 1 time per hour. See, a full t1 or t2 run nets 5k profit. This would allow newer players to run as much as they wanted, without feeling trapped by the energy system. It would also allow them to make small profits of crowns if they so chose, and also has the benefit of reducing crafting costs early on (craft 2* item for 2.5k cr if you want, or a 3* using 100 mist and 100 CE AFTER doing your daily run etc). This benefits further by not affecting the need for CE, but reducing the demand for CE slightly with each transaction. Even 5* crafters will save a bit of money on this. Fill your mist tank, and now you only need to buy 700CE instead of 800 CE. On it's own it seems like nothing, but imagine every one of our 8-10k active players no longer requesting that 100CE. It adds up. CE would fall marginally as a result, but not so much that it is worthless. Newer players do not get turned off by the energy system, and thus OOO has a chance to earn more paying customers, etc.
Now, my suggestion may have flaws to be worked, this is a very off the cuff thing, but the way I'm looking at this, it could actually be viable.
Mo, 11/05/2012 - 16:58
#36
Hoban-Washburn
Not quite. Let's assume that the prices are in a way that is equivalent of 5000cr each pack of CE, which costs 9000. Those who have crystal energy on their characters, but no crowns for crafting will eventually sell it right away, since it's cheaper to craft with crowns than with CE. Same thing goes for those who buy it with real cash to skip the grind quickly. Those who have loads of crowns will just craft with crowns without even needing to buy the energy.
Eventually, if such radical improvement of supply/demand happens, it will severally decrease the CE price, until it reaches a balance where it makes little difference crafting between CE and cr's costs, that is, to around 5000cr. Not just, but it's also most likely to stick in there.
Of course someone will be wondering if the prices will go up again, as if it was a yoyo. The answer is: It probably won't, naturally. As soon as the prices of the CE increase due to increased demand (thanks FSC runs...), it will make the crown crafting method the cheapest again, directing the crowns back there, as if it was a "flood gate" for crowns. And that's the magic of this system. So I do believe it is an excellent long-term solution for the game's economy.
Before you ask, crafting is indeed the main use of energy, and you literally cannot progress through the game with just a mist tank, unlike the other uses for it. Reducing the enormous demand from the part of f2pers on this will certainly do a lot of good on this game, not to mention it would save a lot of hassle from the f2pers when it comes to progressing if the prices go boom. So another benefit for the f2pers and the game itself.
Even so, if you think people will stop buying energy because cheaper, then OOO should incentive them to buy more, and not just as a form promos. If this idea is applied, new CE sinks could be used to compensate some of the demand loss, if it's really necessary for them.
You know OOO will not directly lock the CE into 7,5K cr, it's a player-driven economy after all. Instead, in order to lock the price, we have to know what's the main reason for the inflation (it's not just FSC, it's something bigger!), and combat it in a way that both players and devs benefit from it. And my guess would be the crafting really.
The mist recharge wouldn't be a bad idea really, it's not removal of elevator costs that I wish for, but I think it's more acceptable for everyone.
More, this mmo won't live for much longer if things keep going like this...