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Dark thorn shield

25 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
Mi, 11/28/2012 - 02:24
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Blandaxt

i need to understand something. when i am blocking using my dark thorn shield, isnt it suppose to specialize agaisnt piercing attack? so when i take it to first level of tier 1 wolver area and i see it breaking after one hit from an alpha wolver, i am thinking why is it not able to block that alpha wolver attack? i was wondering if someonee could explain this to me, how does the damage system work from a monster attack and how does my defense come into play when blocking something that i am specialize in like piercing.

other defense items i had are:

ash tail coat and ash tail cap

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Dark_Thorn_Shield

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 02:31
#1
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Hawxindanite
Hawx wants to answer!

4* gear gets worse as your depth goes to a lower value (as in depth 1) It is still better than 3* in these depths. Most of them at least.
Also maybe you are just glitching. lol

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 04:11
#2
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Fradow
The other thing is that Alpha

The other thing is that Alpha Wolvers attack are VERY strong. No shield can withstand more than 2 attacks (I think they more or less all break on the second attack while still attenuating damage), including the dedicated piercing shields.

For how it works exactly, you may want to check the damage page on the wiki.

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 05:43
#3
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Blandaxt
yeah

i checked the wiki and expected my shield to be able to hold to the 1 bite, but on the first bite it broke as if my shield were star 0. this was in tier 1 1st depth. so i really am wondering what is going on?

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 05:51
#4
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Darkbrady
No shield can withstand more

No shield can withstand more than 2 attacks

Certain tanking shields can. I forget which, as I don't have them myself, but I know from others that some of them can tank all three wolver bites. Not that that's ever likely to happen anymore since they lost the ability to chase their targets. Such combo noobs they've become...

Also, @Blan: if you had an even lower star shield, then they would not only break through the shield in one bite, but hurt you as well. Remember that BTS is an offensive shield, and not designed for heavily tanking, especially against Daddy Wolvers who train their jaws by biting through Vanas Mask.

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 06:29
#5
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Zeddy

All damage in Tier 1 is pure normal.

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 08:13
#6
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Bananaphonehaha
Also another question about

Also another question about defense - are the damage reductions by Armour and Helmets equal? If not, which one is higher and thus is more important to upgrade first?

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 08:23
#7
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Bopp
equal

All indications are that helmets and suits provide equal protection.

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 12:05
#8
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Juances

It's possible it was a T2 wolver.
This happens on wolver dens and decon zones or even RJP where you migth find enemies of an higher tier mixed in for challange.

Your equipment gets nerfed, the monster is naturally stronger.... any 5* shield could break easily.

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 15:55
#9
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Blandaxt
wow!

so even if i had a 5 star shield, my shield would break regardless of its level. then does that mean there are some monsters that have unblockable attacks to some 5 star shields? (not including bosses)

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 16:40
#10
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Orbwanter
-

Grimalkins' bites can't be blocked. Lumbers and buffed Trojans can occasionally smash right through your shield depending on the circumstances (the type you're using vs if they proc their statuses.)

Mi, 11/28/2012 - 18:50
#11
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Forum-Brady
Everything can be tanked by a

Everything can be tanked by a certain shield. I don't think there's any one thing in the game that is unblockable by every single shield; even Grims can have their attacks tanked by shields, as far as I'm aware.

Sa, 12/01/2012 - 12:06
#12
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Blandaxt
but

how much protection does a 4 star shield give u when you are in tier 1 fist level compared to the protection it gives you when your in tier 3. because i am pretty sure i can take on one of the alpha wolver's bite in tier 3 1st level but for some reason i cant in tier 1 1st level.

i mean using dark thorn shield as the medium.

Fr, 11/30/2012 - 03:33
#13
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Misten
First of all, all damage in

First of all, as mentioned by Zeddy, all damage in T1 is purely normal. Therefore, your piercing defense on your DTS is useless. Only the normal defense is relevant.
In T3, the monster might deal pure damage or mixture of normal and its respective damage. So if the alpha wolf deal a mixture of normal and piercing damage, you will receive more total protection from combination of normal and piercing defense of BTS.

I don't think anyone know how much protection a 4 star shield give u when you are in tier 1. But if you reference it from the weapons, a 2 star calibur deal 30-35 dmg on stratum 1 while a 4-star ascended calibur deal 36-42dmg on stratum 1. So the difference is not great and you only get half the protection from BTS.

P.S. You not suppose to tank with shield in T1, you just need to whack, whack and keep whacking.

Fr, 11/30/2012 - 15:17
#14
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Senshi
Pity the Poor Lobotomized Alpha Wolvers

Forum-Brady wrote,
Everything can be tanked by a certain shield. I don't think there's any one thing in the game that is unblockable by every single shield; even Grims can have their attacks tanked by shields, as far as I'm aware.

Spiral Wiki says,

Bite cannot be blocked, and ignores the shield entirely.

According to http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Grimalkin#Grimalkin and my own experiences, Grimalkins simply damage you through the shield without breaking it. Shielding only serves to slow your movement and make it less likely that you can dodge the Grimalkin.

Also, because Statuses affect shield health by causing 'Freeze damage' or 'Stun damage' or what have you, shields that don't resist a particular status will break more easily to themed monsters. I'm not sure any no-variant shield can avoid being broken by a poison-themed lumber on the lowest depths, for example (although I don't have a lot of shields to test with). I'm not sure any no-variants shield can block Vanaduke's mace either.... I've heard stories of people blocking the mace with Volcanic Plate or some such, but I don't know if that involved UVs.

Quoth Zeddy:
All damage in Tier 1 is pure normal.

This wise observation is why Dark Thorn is weaker to wolver bites than might be expected in T1. Although standing in front of a charging Alpha Wolver should be regarded as a suicide attempt at any depth with any shield. Just step aside and hit him from behind. They don't even turn to chase you (any more).

Fr, 11/30/2012 - 15:21
#15
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Little-Juances

"Shielding only serves to slow your movement and make it less likely that you can dodge the Grimalkin."

The wiki also says "the Grimalkin can be shield bumped out of the way". You do need to time it tho.

Fr, 11/30/2012 - 16:40
#16
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Zeddy
@Senshi

Vana's mace is easily tankable with Volcanic Plate. Hell, it could probably take two hits from him.

Lots of other shields like Owlite and Crest of Almire can usually take a hit from the mace, too. What the heck are you using?

Sa, 12/01/2012 - 00:03
#17
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Senshi
Hnnh...

I'm using Grey Owlite. I think it survives an off-center mace hit but breaks under a direct hit. Maybe it only breaks when it's already dinged, not sure, I'll try to watch that but I've been Shivermisting the last few runs so don't really have any recent experience with that.

Sa, 12/01/2012 - 00:38
#18
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Fradow
@Senshi No, the Grey Owlite

@Senshi No, the Grey Owlite can tank a Vanaduke mace direct hit without problem. So does Crest of Almire. Volcanic Plate too, it will break one the second hit with no damage (but leaving you with status), while Grey Owlite and Crest will break one second hit and let damage through.

On the other hand, BTS will break one the first hit without letting damage through, but leaving you with status of course. I didn't test with other shields, but I extensively tested those 4 ones.

On the other hand, I can confirm Grimlakin bite go through the shield. They are the only mobs who do that. They are more supposed to be a level hazard than a mob you try to fight.

I'm pretty sure, like Brady, that the right shield can resist a single attack of anything when being at full health. For a poisonned themed lumber, I'd try a Volcanic Plate Shield for example, since it has normal and stun and a very good health, since there is no elemental/poison or elemental/stun shield.

Sa, 12/01/2012 - 12:11
#19
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Blandaxt
what i

what i am searching after is how weakened is your character's shield in tier 1 when the character has a 4 to 5 star shield?

Mo, 12/03/2012 - 20:05
#20
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Toah
For Tier 1 use a 2*/3* Plate

For Tier 1 use a 2*/3* Plate shield, pure normal resistance, and lots of it, with no down sides, and since all damage in tier 1 is normal, it's the perfect shield.

For armor, You could use plate I guess.

You can tank snarbolax with a good plate shield.

Mo, 12/03/2012 - 23:41
#21
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Batabii
What. In Tier 1, shields

What.

In Tier 1, shields don't even matter once you reach tier 3 clearance. Hell, even weapons don't matter. You can do whatever you want and it'll take eons to kill you if you have more than 12hp

Mi, 12/05/2012 - 04:42
#22
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Aureate
Processing Thoughts of You Always

@Batabii: So I should just let Vanaduke sit on me and hammer slam, right?
Trojans don't take long to kill you. One dash, one slam and there's a knight down on the floor.
Shock-inflicting monsters don't take that long to kill you. Hell, an Alpha Voltail could down you in one attack if you're not being careful enough with them, given that they can break through shields so easily. And you're saying you could stand there and take it like a man?
I'd love to see what kind of loadout you're using, it must be totally boss.

@Bland: If you're dying to t1 monsters with t3 equipment, you're probably doing it wrong. No shield can stand up to persistent attacks forever; you're meant to kill that scrap before it mauls your health bar.
Alpha Wolvers do pure normal damage in t1 (as do most things), so an Ancient Plate Shield would be best for tanking their attacks - although I have no idea why you'd want to do this. The piercing defence of your shield is irrelevant. The star level of your shield is also irrelevant, since the strength of it scales according to the depth you're currently in - I'm pretty sure it will get scaled down to the defence of an equivalent 1* shield at that level. Also, it won't help if your shield isn't fully heated yet.

Mi, 12/05/2012 - 09:24
#23
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Demonicsothe
I think Batabii meant that

I think Batabii meant that once you have 5* items for reaching T3, you should be able to use whatever you have in your inventory and do fine in T1.

Mi, 12/05/2012 - 11:43
#24
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Aureate
Processing Thoughts of Herp Derp

Ahurr.
Point taken. I apologise for the misunderstanding.

Mi, 12/05/2012 - 21:35
#25
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Qwez
Uh...

Only way to completely derp and still boss through T1 is to wear full Ancient Plate. Decreased attack speed medium? no problem. Decreased movement speed medium? no problem. (I own Mercurial set as well and I don't mind either way)
AP shield even tanks a full hit dash n' smash by T3 Trojans.

Now if only I had heart trinkets...

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