AI shock Overpowered
Do, 05/05/2011 - 18:38
Anyone else feel that AI shock is a little bit rediculous? Try duoing an arena with all the BS shock bats that can move and attack at the same time. And since bats can shock you through your shield for some reason, its near impossible to use less than 3 status caps in a single level. If you get shocked once, you're dead. If you rez upon shock, you just literally fall right back down dead. Not to mention those bats fill your screen with bullets, making it quite difficult to dodge.
Yeah sure you can build gear for it, but thats using an entire set of gear for one level... Which in most cases you really shouldn't do at all. With the rate of getting decent UV's, shock resist would take way too much effort to get.
Im just sick of getting shocked once at full health and not being able to do anything about dying within the 8 seconds. You get immobilized and wombo-comboed at least twice within that duration. What if no/few status caps drop? Kinda lame that you literally can get stun locked so easily.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 19:00
#2
Actually you should customize
Actually you should customize your gear for every stratum whenever possible, that's why this is an equipment game, not a leveling player game. Though I will say I DO NOT do this, it doesn't mean that's right.
Also, every status effect is overpowered to some player. I don't like fire. Other's don't like freeze.
Fire will burn your health and it can't be stopped unlike shock which randomly hurts you.
Freeze leaves you a sitting duck, ALWAYS, even blocking can only help so long and if you're dealing with enemies that inflict freeze and they break your shield, essentially you die without ever being able to move.
Shock is the perfect median between those two, but it's not as efficient at doing either one of those things. With shock, I may not be able to continuously shield but at least I can still move. When I get shocked (for damage) I get a longer break before the next damage hit, whereas fire won't give me that long to breathe and its relatively brief so I can usually shield bump before an enemy gets to me.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 19:15
#3
@NegimaSonic
No, it's not 'overpowered to some player'. He's not kidding, it's instant death. When you receive shock ticks (and thus get paralyzed - cannot move, cannot attack, cannot block), the immunity you get after taking damage (~1.5 secs of invincibility after taking any damage) is removed, and you can get hit instantly after the tick. And status effects can refresh, aswell - So essentially, it goes like this:
-Playing well, no problems. This is T3.
-You're fighting some devilites, and walk around a bit, causing Shock Greavers to spawn.
-Not being able to react to all of them, you get hit by something and shocked.
-The shock automatically causes a tick, right as you're inflicted by it. Your damage invincibility is lost.
-You get hit again.
-You get shocked again.
-You get hit again.
-You get shocked again.
-You get hit again.
-You're dead.
-Basically, you just lost 30 health in about five seconds.
Anyone who has done shock stratums on T3 without any resist knows how this feels.
This is one of the reasons why the status effect and status resistance system is so broken. But really, shock is insanely overpowered, but... In T3, the 'main' status effects are all OP when using no resist. (Shock doens't even matter - If you don't have maximum, you're dead. No choice.)
Freeze? You're in a narrow platform, and can't dodge well, shield gets broken by retrodes or gun puppies. Continuous freeze, cannot counter-attack at all. Dead after a while. Resist reduces chance of being frozen. This doens't help the usual instant death much. It'd require maximum resist to be "immune" and not affected by this instant death.
Fire? 1.5 bars of damage per second, if you stand on an oiler's fire or zombie's breath. No resist? That's alright. Take 3 - 4 bars of damage instead. And everything else will always set you on fire.
So yeah. Playing on T3 ends up forcing you to wear status resistant armor, or you're dead meat on those stratums.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 19:21
#4
This is exactly the reason
This is exactly the reason why I LOVE remedy potions in Tier 3. I always try to have 3 on me as often as possible. These things have saved my life more times than I can count. If you've used 3 already and have none left, then tough luck I guess. I will admit that the bats in the arenas are pretty frustrating sometimes. But if you aren't using remedy pots, I highly recommend getting used to it (you might already, but I'm just saying if you aren't, then start using them now). They really save you after a mistake against shock or freeze.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 20:02
#5
I wouldn't call it
I wouldn't call it Overpowered, but its definitely stronger than the rest, if anything it feels like the other ones are just too weak, all though Cidatel fire hurts pretty good if you dont have fire resist.So I guess it all depends.
If you ask me though they should buff some of the status effects for players.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 19:55
#6
I wouldn't call shock
I wouldn't call shock overpowered either. I consider it equally annoying to most of the other ailments (stun is not nearly as deadly if you simply don't attack). But as Dog2 said, it's a good reason to have remedies on hand. If you end up running out of them over the course of a run, you're playing with item hogs or you need to learn to block more.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 20:19
#7
@kakelgis
lulz, I left off an 's" before.
Anyway that situation you described also almost perfectly matches freeze, except with freeze you're going to lose your shield and you won't be moving anywhere.
Oh and fire, I have no resist for that (owlite is meh...) 8D The fact I made it through all the prevanduke levels of FSC was more due to my awesome team members than anything else for me.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 21:54
#8
You really do need something
You really do need something to resist whatever you're up against. Don't even try fire or lightning stratums without the proper resist. You'll die more than you're happy with. That's all there is to it. The profits from other t3 stratums that should be beatable is more than enough to equip yourself with other 4* options. I find that once you hit a new tier, you become able to very easily craft items belonging to the previous tier. The intent is that after the initial accomplishment, you can diversify and adapt without making enormous sacrifices.
There's a reason why absolutely everybody is using owlite gear. It resists fire AND shock. Get it. It's waaaay better than it should be.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 22:07
#9
...
Wear status resistant gear. THAT'S WHAT IT IS THERE FOR.
Do, 05/05/2011 - 22:10
#10
Status resistant
Status resistant gear
Parties
Thats what these were created for
Arenas can be easier when all the enemies aren't focused on you
Whats insane are fire arenas with oil lichens
Try avoiding that fire
Right now shock is easy
Do, 05/05/2011 - 22:18
#11
Enemies should not be able to
Enemies should not be able to stunlock the player, ever. I don't care if it's an avoidable stunlock, they shouldn't have the ability to do it. It's unfair, and removes a lot of fun from the game.
Adding a cooldown on stunning effects against the player is really the only way to prevent that without causing a lot of trouble.
It's just nonsense that enemies can cause a status effect with every attack that can freeze you in place or just slow you down to the point of being unable to escape, and then continue to attack you AND re-inflict the status with each attack.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 10:09
#12
PSA: You can shield the
PSA: You can shield the damage caused by shock.
It will drop your shield when a shock effect does occur, making you open for being pummeled still, BUT if you are in the clear, you can save yourself the damage -- unlike being on fire! I realize many of you probably already know this, but some posters sounded like they might be unaware...
Also, I agree- shock can easily be horribly deadly in T3, shielding the shock ticks or not.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 10:25
#13
Stunlock is ok, IMO
meowreka -
I disagree. I love the challenge each successive Tier has provided. Even though my forays into T3 are pretty limited in number and end in horrible, pathetic death, I know that I can do better in how I play to avoid that. (Not just a matter of gear.) 90% of the time, when I get cornered or stun/status locked, its because I did something foolish. The other 10% I still yell "BULLS@#$!" .. but that's just the nature of challenging video games, IMO.
Personally, I find bullet-hell more frustrating than stuns, but thats probably because I'm terrible at navigating it... (i blame lag?)
If it AI were extremely unpredictable, I would agree, but its pretty predictable. I also want to say that some level layouts combined with certain status themes are "unbalanced" in how difficult they are -- but thats OK in my opinion, since gates and levels change, and its a symptom of the developers wanting levels to vary in difficulty. (Which is good!)
I have a much different opinion about stunlocking in PvP, however...
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 10:57
#14
Strategy?
I'm glad it isn't just me. I have an incredibly hard time with Beryl Greavers and haven't found a good strategy for dealing with them yet. It probably doesn't help that I'm a bomber, so my usually strategy of planting a bomb then running or shielding just doesn't work right with these guys. For that matter, being able to shock through the shield seems really booched. Can any other monsters afflict you with a status through a shield? I'm not even sure the non-shock greavers can do that.
If anyone has a winning strategy against them feel free to share, maybe even make a video of the bastards getting trounced. I'd like that.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 11:02
#15
A note on greavers
Really, any situation in which you get shocked and there is more than one Greaver present, you're more or less boned. Or out for a ton of health. Playing cautiously will only save you to some extent because there are areas that spawn multiple Greavers almost on top of you. Also, I've noticed that Greaver shock status attacks can actually trigger about half a second after their actually attack- you'll see a faint electric-blue glow in the area after the attack, which persists for about a second (kind of like the chromalisk spit, but far shorter in duration and more subtle). After you block the initial bite (which can also proc shock, I think), get out of the way if you can.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 11:10
#16
@culture, I've been set on
@culture, I've been set on fire by Ruby Greavers so yes , I'd assume the others have this piercing status effect thing.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 11:34
#17
Best thing I've found for
Ahh Greavers.. I prefer to call them "F#%@-You-Bats"
Best thing I've found for Greavers is using the Flourish sword line... it interrupts them quickly and the attack-movement helps you get away from any that you aren't attacking/interrupting.
Still get shocked/etc. by them now and then, but I find it vastly more successful than trying to shield bounce (and get shocked anyway) or trying to flee/shoot.
Honestly I love Flourish for dealing with status-imbued Devilites and Wolvers, too. The attack movement and quick interrupt seems to counter their maddening hit-and-run tactics well. On that note, its decent against hit-and-run gremlins (healer and bomber), too, despite piercing not being their weakness.
(UNCONFIRMED: Also, I swear I've had better success shield bouncing Greavers without status-infliction by taking a step back so their models aren't clipping through my shield bubble, but that just may be coincidence.. It seems really odd that shielding success would be tested in code that way.)
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 11:44
#18
@yaakslave
I believe that success would be attributable to the fact that a shock Greaver attack leaves a small AoE shock radius that persists like chromalisk spit. It only lasts for like half a second or so, and triggers about half a second after the initial attack, so it is possible that it is just the animation being out of sync. Haven't confirmed this with other types of greavers, but with the shock-type you can see a faint blue glow. By stepping back you are avoiding that AoE residual attack, so I'm not surprised.
Along those lines, I'm pretty sure I can successfully block status effect afflictions from the various types of chromalisk spit, as well as Devilite projectiles by shielding... but the Greavers seem to go right through. >_<
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 13:06
#19
I've seen the greavers on ice
I've seen the greavers on ice levels leaving this blue aura behind and freezing as well, but you could block them at the time I saw it happen.
Fr, 05/06/2011 - 19:19
#20
Bastard greavers man. They
Bastard greavers man. They can paralyze (or whatever status) from one square patch away even from behind cover.
Thanks Dev gods for the Flourishes.
Sa, 05/07/2011 - 05:32
#21
Here's how AI shock is
Here's how AI shock is overpowered:
get shocked->get hit by every monster around you->dead in 0,5s
(happened at least twice to me in electro arenas by ending up between mech knights due to my failure.. it's just baffling how that ammounts to going from full hp to zero with no room to use even a remedy (shock gets applied->instant shock tick guaranted->cant use items while shock tick progresses)
besides that it's totally balanced. Perhaps taking damage should interrupt the shock tick.
Sa, 05/07/2011 - 07:32
#22
Grievers are really the only
Grievers are really the only ones where this is a major problem, since they seem to be able to shock you straight through your shield. With other monsters, I've been able to go through without any shock resist gear and do okay. Retrode lasers are dodge-able (though not always easily, if there are lots of them) and even if you can't dodge, you can block. Devil-IT are rough, but if you fight defensively--preferably with a Flourish and block cancelling every attack--you can get through the fight.
But Grievers? Forget about it. Unless you can hit every single one (usually impossible in arenas) one is going to attack and shock you right through your shield, which promptly goes down, which means you get shocked again, and so on. I recall spending a solid three seconds stunlocked by a pack of Grievers with Devil-IT allies in an arena once. I had three health caps and three remedy caps, and it didn't matter at all since I couldn't use items while shocked.
Make it so Grievers don't shock through shields? Most of this problem goes away, and you're left with a challenging but winnable scenario.
Sa, 05/07/2011 - 12:50
#23
I agree
shock is overpowered....and we have way too many shock stratums. I just had an awful experience in a shock arena where the shock bats were in the line up with the robots that shoot a line. It wouldn't be so bad if the shield worked at least half the time, but when the bats move while charging up their shock attack....how do you defend that? Moreover, if you are surrounded in a corner and activate your shield which doesn't push them away, what do you do? Keep holding the shield button hoping you can take 5 hits of charged shock while the robots just lined you up isn't a good idea, and releasing the shield to re-engage it to hopefully push them back isn't either (because the time it takes to do that, they've already shocked you).
And now, you are sitting on shock ticks that slow you down enough for them to surround you again, and repeat the process. I died 5 times, lost all my ME and couldn't even adventure further because the ROI went to sh*.
Fire and Freeze are no where overpowered in comparison. Fire has never immobilized me, allowing me to get to a safe location to heal or defensive position. As for freeze, I just put up my shield and it knocks everything away from me (and protects me from attacks) long enough for me to get unfrozen. Shock though, it turns off the shield ability...awesome!
"realistic" -- maybe, but this is a game, screw realism when revives are exponentially expensive.
So, 05/08/2011 - 02:15
#24
Hm
The biggest problem is that there is only 1 craftable armor set with shock resist.
And it sucks.
So, 05/08/2011 - 02:17
#25
The biggest problem is that
The biggest problem is that there is only 1 craftable armor set with shock resist.
And it sucks.
Grey Feather is actually quite fantastic as long as you're not bad at handling things that stun. If Shock defense is more important to you than attack speed, Grey Feather is a wonderful option.
So, 05/08/2011 - 02:32
#26
Oh
Oh sorry, I was thinking about divine.
Make it 2 sets in the same line.
The pros that play this game will tell you that you're a baddie and whatnot, but I agree. Tier 3 Thunderfist Arena is brutal. You can easily get chain-shocked to death right from the start.