Should we use enemy health bars to gather enemy health?
Vie, 03/29/2013 - 09:55
Google document with gathered numbers. Green values are calculated using the "normal" damage value as a base. Black values have been manually measured to the exact hit point. Blue values have been estimated by inflicting damage and multiplying by the healthbar.
That enemy health bar is 200 pixels long. 100% of the enemy's health. You bring your strongest weapons with your largest amount of bonus. It does 400 damage. There's 100 pixels left on the bar, 50% of the enemy's health. All you need to do now is upscale the damage from your strongest weapon. 400 * 100 / 50 = 800 health in total. This is accurate to within 2% because 400 damage being 100 pixels is accurate to within 1% (0.5% in either direction). A single screenshot of your strongest attack after hitting an undamaged enemy is all you need to gather some pretty accurate data.
You can also run through the level, recording. Hit the enemy a bunch and add up all the damage you did until the enemy only has one hit left before they died. Doing this, you can get a very accurate reading on the enemy's total health.
It's a lot of work, to be sure, to gather it for every enemy at every depth at every amount of party member; but at least it's about to become a lot easier than previously.
Vie, 03/29/2013 - 14:40
#2
In the screenshot on the top right, the healthbar displays info and health of a Royal Mini. Presumably the last enemy hit by the knight's attack.
Vie, 03/29/2013 - 15:11
#3
ah, good
Ah, good. We can make that work in a typical Clockworks level.
Sáb, 03/30/2013 - 08:05
#4
"to gather it for every enemy at every depth at every amount of party member"
Maybe you could just compare 3 monsters. It's possible they all get a fixed % of health increase.
Jue, 04/04/2013 - 07:28
#5
Zeddy,
Just wanted to let you
Zeddy,
Just wanted to let you know,
I'm always here to help ya with wiki stuff, and info gathering.
~Shadowknifer
Jue, 04/04/2013 - 08:42
#6
Healthbars are out! I'm torn on which science project to start with.
Vie, 04/05/2013 - 09:47
#7
The project has officially started. Shufflebots in GTH have 506 health. I confirmed this by inflicting 505 damage and seeing that they survived, and then inflicting 507 damage and seeing that they did not. This might mean they have 507 health, as I didn't get to check 506, but I believe the margin of error on this method will work just fine for the project.
If anyone would like to add data on this project, just post here. I will need:
Depth
Amount of party members
Monster (include their status, to see if non-status and status monsters have the same health)
Total damage inflicted
Pixels remaining on their health bar. (Preferably less than 100. Less is better.)
Alternatively, just calculate it on your own and report the health found. You can find this through 200 * Total Damage / (200 - pixels remaining).
At the moment, we're looking for health values at depth 19 and depth 24. This is to make the data more relevant when compared to Lancer Knightz damage values, but feel free to report for anywhere.
Vie, 04/05/2013 - 10:34
#8
for what it's worth
For what it's worth, here are some data collected using my old method. For example, fire polyp's "733-736" means that 732 points of damage didn't kill it, but 736 points did kill it. All of these results are from depth 24, solo. I don't regard these results are extremely reliable, though. They should be verified. Also most of them need to be tightened up a lot still.
fire polyp: 733-736
oiler: 737-739 (strangely almost overlaps fire polyp...error?)
stun(?) zombie: 1026-1032
fire zombie: 1021-1058 (redundant with stun zombie?)
small lichen: 1097-1103 (conflicting answer: 1171-1200)
silkwing: 673-765
shankle: 543-651
greaver: 567-901
poison devilite: 337-566
spiked jelly: 621-930
mender: 311-620
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 05:06
#9
I tested some gremlins and constructs. The results were very interesting.
The numbers are not exact matches, but they were very close. Remember that my method of testing is only 98% accurate, not 100%. My observations so far:
- All gremlins have the same health. Scorchers, demos and thwackers. Probably mortafires too.
- Gremlin menders have 25% less health than that. This health value is shared with shankles.
- Gun puppies, scuttlebots and retrodes have the same health as gremlins.
- Lumbers have twice the health of gremlins.
- Spookats and devilite overtimers have gremlin health.
- Devilites have gremlin mender health.
- Yesmen and pit bosses both have lumber health..
- Wolvers and chromas have gremlin health.
- Each party member in your group increases enemy health by 33%. At 4 members, enemies seem to have 199% health.
I expect we will find a lot more of these patterns as we move on.
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 10:48
#10
I've confirmed shufflebots in GTH to have 507 health. They survive 506, but 507 kills them. I believe that if they existed on D23, Devilites, Knockers, Shankles and Gremlin Menders would also have 507 health.
Edit:
I've confirmed Scuttlebots to have exactly 450 health at D19. They survive 449 but not 450.
Likewise, lumbers have exactly 900. They survive 899 but not 900.
Devilites have 338 health, They survive 337 but not 338.
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 17:57
#11
Well
Does it make a difference if Gremmies are in OCH T3 or just T3 Arcade? This is very intriguing indeed... I must check this out.
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 20:06
#12
I think we don't know OCH depths, but it shouldn't make a difference.
I've spent the day fine-tuning numbers, and am able to confirm all of my theories. Here's how it works:
- Outside of bosses, enemies have four levels of health. If you're boring, you can refer to them as "low", "medium", "high" and "very high". I will be calling them "Devilite", "Gremlin", "Zombie" and "Lumber".
- Known devilites are Gremlin Menders, Shankles and, of course, Devilites. I suspect Gremlin Knockers, Royal Minis and Whisps also fall under this category. I have not tested those enemies yet.
- Most enemies have gremlin health.
- Unmerged Lichens and Alpha Wolvers share health with Zombies.
- Trojans, Pit Bosses and Yesmen share health with Lumbers.
- Health scales with exactly 33% extra for each party member.
- Merged lichens do their own things which I will check more in-depth tomorrow. My current theory is 50% extra health compared to an unmerged lichen per lichen in the merge.
The exact values for D19:
- Devilite: 338
- Gremlin: 450
- Zombie: 675
- Lumber: 900
The mathematical amongst you may already have noticed the pattern amongst these: 75%, 100%, 150% and 200%.
The exact values for D24:
- Devilite: 550
- Gremlin: 733
- Zombie: 1100
- Lumber: 1466
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 20:15
#13
nice work
Nice work! Thank you. I'll try to check if I get a chance.
Sáb, 04/06/2013 - 21:07
#14
Report from kitchen.
Report from kitchen. Mini-cakes at D24 have 115 HP, Big cakes have 1 085 HP. And something tells me, that these values shared with Jelly Cubes
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 06:07
#15
...
First Depth OCH, solo, Gremlin
Thwacker: 548 damage 150 pixels, 725 damage 196 pixles, Approx. HP: 730.6
Gun Puppy: 372 damage 102 pixels, Approx HP: 729.4
Mender: 390 damage 142 pixels, Approx HP: 549.3
Mortafire: 437 damage 80 pixels, Approx HP: 1092.5
I should make more details next time I guess >_>
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 10:41
#16
So we can conclude that OCH starts at depth 24. Their health values are 733 for thwackers and puppies, 550 for menders, and 1100 for Mortafires.
Cakes have 1100HP and I'm not sure about mini cakes. Possibly 110. Regular jellies have 733.
I haven't tested all those things (except regular jellies), I'm just fitting them into the system I'm uncovering.
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 11:44
#17
Interesting
This project really is amazing. We've never delved this deep into damage numbers.
How do you find out exact numbers like: 733? Do you use a proto sword to get the last few digits?
Also, I've been planning on testing out the differences between Lichen and Lichen colonies. As they combine, does their health increase exponentially? This was always an object of my curiosity. I'll have these numbers for you guys soon.
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 12:45
#18
I've spent the entire day researching Lichen Colonies. The results are weird. This was all researched at D19
1 Lichen has zombie health, 675.
2 Lichen merge together and gain 50% health, 1013.
3 Lichen has twice the health of one, 1350.
4 Lichen forms a Lichen Colony. (That's the small spiny ones). They don't gain any health. 1350.
5 Lichen do... something. For some reason they have 350% the health of devilites. 1576.
6 Lichen form a Giant Lichen Colony. They gain a weird amount of health that can only be described as 85% of their maximum health. 1912.
7 Lichen reaches max size. At this point, they have 500% the health of a regular Lichen. 2250.
Any Lichen beyond these only restores the health of the Lichen Colony and do not add to the Lichen Colony's size or maximum health.
I'm not doing this again for D24. I'm going to just assume it follows the same pattern there. I know it works differently in T2 and T1, so I will get around to those. Hexzyle is currently researching T1.
To find out exact health values, I examined Lancer Knightz' depth 19 and depth 24 data to find numbers I could put together and achieve the desired result. This was a pain in the butt for most D24 values and all the Lichen forms, and I usually had to find two different weapons each time. Sometimes I got lucky and could combine Nitro + Triglav. Other times I would have to recruit a friend to fire at the enemy 19 times using no bonus Neutralizer. For all of the results, I have tested the exact value listed as well as the damage one value below. 732 didn't kill D24 Gremlins, for instance, but 733 did.
I would like to thank the following assistants in no particular order:
Magnicth
Qwote
Luguiru
Soral
Xxdragneel
Krakob
Etharaes
Possiblyspy
Lizzi
Hexzyle
If I forgot you, forgive me. I've been shieldbumping Lichens in a shock level wearing chaos gear all day long and am very exhausted.
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 13:00
#19
Mahatma-Gandhi
How do you find out exact numbers like: 733? Do you use a proto sword to get the last few digits?
That's what I did. Well, actually I used Proto Gun --- less damage and less dangerous. But, as Zeddy says, you have to carefully plan hits from various weapons, to get down to a precise final answer. A lot of work goes into these tests. So I'm really impressed that Zeddy and his helpers have made so much progress so rapidly.
Dom, 04/07/2013 - 17:36
#20
Couldn't have done it without the Lancer Knightz data. Using the healthbar estimation, I was able to get a very close number and know where to start guessing. Once I started seeing a pattern, it was child's play to find a specific number to test for. Less so to actually come up with all kinds of methods to reach those specific numbers, but again, it was possible thanks to the damage data. Lichens were the worst for this reason. They dont' follow a specific mathematical pattern, they just have a bunch of numbers that you can kind of find a relation between so the Lichens took all day.
I'm working on getting all the enemy health values by depth. I know of six different categories (mini, devilite, gremlin, zombie, lumber, giant lichen colony), and I should be able to gather the gremlin values with little trouble and three of the others with just a little bit of planning. Just ran through T1. Contributions are welcome.
It's not as in-depth as the D19 and D24 values, just quick estimates with the health bar. I'll later test the beginning of each stratum to get them more specific and use the health of the shufflebots in GTH to correct the scaling values.
Edit: I've linked to the google doc where I'm putting up the numbers. The green values haven't been observed, and are computed using the gremlin base health.
Edit: I had to rename "Zombie" to "Mecha knight" because Zombies do not have Zombie health in T1. Mecha Knights do.
Edit: I've mapped out all the health in T1 and T3. Most of it is derived values based on guesstimation. The green values are computed from actual values while purple values are just speculation.
Edit: I've filled out the entire thing with speculation. Tomorrow I'll run through T2 and we can see how close my speculation comes.
Lun, 04/08/2013 - 12:06
#21
I've gathered values for T2. Also added a new category of estimated numbers, which have been estimated using the healthbar method. Black values have been calculated exactly by inflicting the shown values and one damage less.
Lun, 04/08/2013 - 13:38
#22
I'll be on my alt
And help you out with finite numbers Zeddy hopefully. My alt is in your guild, so we can talk about collecting data later. I'm always up for helping collect data, btw. My normal acc is Shadowknifer, my alt is this (Mahatma-Gandhi)
Lun, 04/08/2013 - 14:50
#23
Yum
Snarblox health approx: 694, give or take
Lun, 04/08/2013 - 19:13
#24
Almost filled out T3. I need to head into the arcade and check out D28. I would eventually like to get at least one enemy number confirmed to the last hit point per depth, but that's a bit more difficult than it was for simply D19 and D24.
Lord Vanaduke has 45000 hit points over the span of the three phases were you can damage him. I have not confirmed this exactly but the numbers I got were 2% off from it. Each phase is 15000 hit points long. The mask has 5000 hit points each phase. Unlike Vanaduke himself, the mask has seperate health bars each phase.
Toxilargo doesn't even have the health of a Giant Lichen Colony. Seems to be 3 times the health of a regular enemy. This is pretty disappointing for a miniboss. The Toxilargo in the mission is fought in D22 and the arcade one at D28, which explains why the mission one is such a pushover in comparison. The D28 one has over twice as much health as the D22 one. You can see the actual values in the chart, but if you're lazy, they're 1845 and 2878.
Wheel launchers at D24 have 197 health. I have no idea.
Mié, 04/10/2013 - 15:25
#25
Dust Bunnies have exactly half the health of regular mobs.
What, did you think I was going to let them be live for even half a day before figuring that out?
Mié, 04/24/2013 - 19:41
#26
Nordic-Oten linked me to this blogpost where some guy had already gathered most of the enemy health and found the same as I have.
Interestingly, it seems to have started at about the same time as my project. I got a bit sidetracked, I supposed. I've filled in his definite values into my spreadsheet and it is at this point mostly done.
Mié, 06/19/2013 - 03:54
#27
bumping
I refer to this thread enough, from enough different computers, that I'd like to keep it near the top of this forum. I hope no one minds.
Mar, 07/09/2013 - 15:20
#28
Possible breakthrough
I believe that by using this data we can determine enemy damage and possibly knight defense. The key is in this video. You used proto guns to calculate health. In this video the guy uses a proto gun and enemy attacks to kill monsters. So lets say we're talking about when he kills the jelly using the Trojan. If p is for the number of proto shots and t is for the number of Trojan smashes, then 24p+xt=health of the blast cube, correct? Nope. I forgot about resistances, but those can be factored in relatively easily I'm assuming. Unless there's shenanigans with proto guns, meaning Bopp's data is worthless. However, if there are shenanigans you can always use a barely-above-par gun to do the same job. Once damage is determined we may be able to crack knight defenses but that's a while away for now.
Mié, 07/17/2013 - 14:20
#29
Experiment
Disregard the above post. The link was bad, along with the procedure. I missed several vital factors that cannot be accounted for at the moment.
1. Clear the first two rooms of the first depth of RJP
2. Clear the right room.
3. Taking care to ensure that no slimes are damaged, shield bump all of the lumbers out of the left room.
4. Shield bump all slimes into the upper room by standing on the pressure pad to lock them behind the gate.
5. Kill one lumber, only using the other lumber to attack. Count the number of hits.
6. Bring one slime out and kill it using the surviving lumber. Record the amount of hits done.
7. Bring out another slime and hit it with a weapon without killing it. Record damage don't by the weapon. Finish it off with the lumber.
8. Repeat step 7 as much as possible.
9. Analyze data.
I am willing to do this but I will need a few things: a partner to shield bump with (and step 4), the health of a lumber with two people on the first depth of RJP, and the health of a slime under the same conditions.
This will allow us to find the damage done by a lumber, which in turn can help us better analyze damage done by all monsters once we learn, through this, the exact defense a knight has.
Mié, 07/17/2013 - 15:40
#30
good idea
Good idea.
Jue, 07/18/2013 - 15:13
#31
...
Lumbers do not do damage in D14 of RJP. This means several things. I cannot gather the data. Either only T3 lumbers damage monsters, or lumbers never damage monsters and only stun with knockback. I have screenshot pictures of the health bars of various slimes (normal and mini) before and after several lumber hits and have compared the amount of pixels.
Jue, 07/18/2013 - 04:29
#32
huh?
You're saying that lumbers on the first level of RJP can't damage knights? I find this hard to believe. Try again?
Jue, 07/18/2013 - 12:33
#33
He means lumbers don't damage
He means lumbers don't damage the jellies.
Jue, 07/18/2013 - 15:15
#34
Lol
Lithiumforest is right. Sorry for the confusion. I mistyped knights where it should have been monsters. It's fixed now. Anyways, can anyone confirm if there's a monster gate preceding the final room of Blades of the Fallen? I think I might be able to get a Trojan to kill a Greaver. If I can let a Greaver in, that is.
Vie, 07/19/2013 - 01:20
#35
Just soloed Blades of the Fallen. That mission is still pretty intense, even though I'm in T3 now. There is no monster gate. In fact, a greaver spawns inside the gate. The problem isn't getting a greaver in there though. The problem is that the trojan can attack buff and dash, along with the lost souls spawning, making it nearly impossible to get an accurate reading of the damage done by a trojan. I'll have to find another solution.
Sáb, 07/20/2013 - 20:58
#36
Hexzyle's already got a thing on this.
If you want a reliable source of damage that affects both monsters and knights, you could try out explosive blocks, perhaps? That should let you mess around with defence stuff. I think explosive blocks do elemental damage.
Dom, 07/21/2013 - 00:34
#37
@Zeddy
Missed that thread. And while we're doing similar projects, we have different goals. My goal is to crack knight defense into solid numbers. I'll check up with the explosive blocks using different armors. If you're right then I just have to blow one up near a jelly and do the rest in a training hall. Thanks! Also, what's the exact health and defense of an RJP first depth jelly? I didn't quite understand your procedure for finding it.
Lun, 07/22/2013 - 06:41
#38
@Coelydragon
I've got a chart of enemy health here, also linked in the original post. Most enemies, including jellies, have gremlin health. In the mission, RJP's first depth is 14, while in the arcades it's depth 15.
At depth 14, regular jellies have 295 health and at depth 15 they have 322.
An enemy has twice as much neutral defence as they do their weak defence. A jelly, for instance, has twice as much normal/elemental defence as they do shadow defence.
To figure out an enemy's amount of defence, you use a bit of math. Let's take Umbra Driver's charge attack. (We want to work with high-damage attacks because the results won't be accurate unless raw damage > 4 * enemy defence).
Umbra driver's charge does 171 damage versus jellies at depth 14. Against a construct, it does 140. Since constructs have twice as much shadow defence as jellies do, we can figure out how much defence jellies have by doing 171 - 140 = 31.
Note that they probably don't have exactly 31 defence; it's rarely an integer. To get more accurate results, you'd need to do this bit of math with multiple weapons and see if some of them return 30 defence or 32 defence.
Lun, 07/22/2013 - 17:53
#39
@Zeddy
Got it. Hopefully it's enough for me to test an explosive block against a jelly and a lumber to confirm if it has elemental damage or not. Thanks again. Oh and your data for the terminals is speculated. I'm fairly sure that prestige missions go through that depth so you can probably get the confirmed data that way.
Mar, 08/06/2013 - 09:36
#40
Raw numbers on Monster HP
I gathered these numbers while running FSC normal mode.
- ≤w HP means, that w is the maximum possible HP.
- x-y HP means x being the smallest possible HP value and y the highest possible HP value of a monster.*
- z HP means z is the exact amount of HP. (:
Open party FSC Normal Mode
- Depth 24
- Slag Walker: ≤780 HP
- Red Rover x2 Top: ≤780 HP
- Red Rover x2 Bottom: ≤390 HP
- Depth 25
- Slag Walker: 787-796 HP
- Trojan: 1047-1070 HP
- Depth 26
- Slag Walker: 847-851 HP
- Depth 27
- Red Rover x6: 249-279 HP
- Slag Walker: 906 HP
- Trojan: 1196-1218 HP
*original testing data contained x-1 being the maximum amount of dmg, that i dealt without being able to kill the monster. i added 1 to the value to aim for the HP value only
Mar, 08/06/2013 - 20:47
#41
From your numbers, it would appear normal enemies have 2/3 the health of regular enemies.
The Red Rover data sems weirdly low. I'll go have a look.
Mar, 08/06/2013 - 22:34
#42
rr
ther r different red rovers, some r really weak, others normal
thats why i specified which ones i meant(location and/or amount)
Vie, 08/09/2013 - 11:28
#43
The Red Rover data sems weirdly low. I'll go have a look.
The Red Rovers in FSC D27 die very quickly, even on Elite difficulty. I reported it 2-3 days ago, assuming it's a bug.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 11:12
#44
Is there any data yet on how difficulty changes monster hp/damage? I'm assuming defense stays the same.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:47
#45
yes, the original way
Yes. Before the guild hall release, we were measuring monster health laboriously by inflicting different amounts of damage on monsters and seeing how much they could take before dying. We could simply do that again. This approach is cheaper than it was, because elevators are now free.
Dom, 08/11/2013 - 12:52
#46
For zombies in FSC, depth 24, it's 50% more health on elite than advanced and 50% more health on advanced than normal. Advanced has the old health values.
I tested those to exact values and haven't really bothered anywhere else.
Mié, 09/04/2013 - 20:56
#47
Do we have pure specialized damage data in LD? I have a feeling that it might lead to the cracking of knight defense more accurately/easily than explosive blocks.
Mié, 09/04/2013 - 21:07
#48
@Kathrine-Dragon
I have some data on it. Unfortunately, LD defence differs from clockwork defence. For instance, in LD all knights have 100 defence against every damage type, regardless of armour. The amount of defence the armours themselves offer is also a lot smaller than in clockworks.
Vie, 09/02/2016 - 12:37
#49
Enemy HPs
This is one of the biggest secrets of Spiral Knights since its launch. At first there was nothing except weapon damage numbers that are showing us how much we hurt monsters. Few years later, there was the UI update, adding healthbars to let us know how close we are to finishing our enemy off. But then we got Gunner update, giving us final tool to figure out enemy's HP: adding damage to Catalyzer line's orbiting shot hits. But this thread doesn't know about it yet.
I don't know if I was just not searching enough but I thought that such common thing we all meet daily will be covered enough in such time. Few days back I started doing this project on my own. At first I found one thread, where were only preparations for what seemed like massive data gathering but apart few numbers it was empty. Meanwhile I stumbled across Zeddy's defense research. Now I tried to check this theme once again and I've found this. I don't know why this thread sudenly became death (maybe it was inactive for too long) but I think it's pity to have these numbers here for almost nothing. They aren't even on the wiki.
I started working on Elite difficulty (for more loot) from the very first depth. I got some 50 HP numbers for regular monsters, 100 HP for Lumbers and Trojans as well as 37 HP for weaker monsters like Devilite. I was also testing Wolver Dens arena's Alpha Wolvers. I counted 250 HP for Alpha from wave 2 and 300 HP from wave 3. I was also interested in Howlitzer's extra vulnerable rocket but I don't have weapons weak enough. 6 shots from Biohazard don't seem to kill it and weakest normal hit I got was 15, so it's somewhere between 7-15. Now with more data I think it might be 13 but it needs to be tested. This is all for Depth 1. From Depth 2 I got regular 73 HP and weak 55 HP. I also tried explosives. Depth 1 21 damage, Depth 2 27.
Then I decided to change difficulty to "the most popular" Advanced difficulty because of trying to get my hands on raw into-game-manually-inserted numbers, so I can be sure they are whole numbers without point-something (as Zeddy had problems with in his Defense project). This was the difficulty we were all playing on before we could choose. Armed with Striker and Biohazard I've completed entire Tier 1. Each regular enemy HP was the same as is in Zeddy's chart. The funniest was the Snarbolax in the final depth. Hardly trying to remember numbers of all slashes and hits I finally managed to defeat him (after constantly getting trolled by the bell towards the end). I put all the numbers in Excel to count them and it showed number 750. As this was my single attempt I can't be so sure about it but I tried to watch some videos with solo-killing Snarbolax (all over 4 years old when there were no difficulty settings) and those few I counted all show this number as possible Snarbolax's HP.
Then I tried to compare all the data I've collected. I've devided my numbers to 5 above mentioned categories (Mini, Devilite, Gremlin, Mecha Knight and Lumber). Comparing numbers in normal (Gremlin) category I figured out these HPs getting raised every depth by 18 1/3, then rounded up. I've tried to raise these HPs up to Tier 3 but seeing Zeddy's chart it's clearly not getting raised by this number every single depth, so this number is for Tier 1 only. However, it seems quite precise for Tier 1 so far but there's 3-merged-lichens' HP in Depth 3 which is greater by 1. Interestingly, calculated number is exactly 115 and collected 116, so this HP-raising factor must be greater than 18 1/3. Other than that, trying to calculate every number in my chart (which isn't a lot) seems to fit flawlesly.
Few last things I'd like to mention. Long ago I tried to form Giant Lichen Colony from all lichens I found in Tier 1 Lichenous Lair. Comparing it to my regular experience in Tier 3, it was taking way more lichens to form it. Adding in their size and significantly buffed HP in Tier 3 I came to conclusion that Lichens spawns already merged in lower Tiers. Also, I think we should try to treat different looking enemies in different Tiers as individual monsters if we can (for example Tier 1 Jelly Cube and Tier 2 Jelly Cube, just like is Tier 1 Gremlin clan Tenderfoot and Tier 2 clan Ironclaw). There may be different datas / mechanics involved in it.
Sorry for grammar.
-Nitronicx (couldn't login via Steam)
Do we know what happens to the UI when there are many enemies on the screen? The only screen shot I've seen shows the Royal Jelly's health bar, but not the health bars of the mini jellies or polyps that would also be in that fight.
I recently started a project to collect enemy health numbers, by laboriously recording hits with various weapons. For example, a fire polyp, on depth 24, when solo, has somewhere between 733 and 736 health. Enemy health bars should make this kind of calculation dramatically easier. So I'm putting my project on hiatus.