Spiral Knights - Petition: Fix Black Kats.

Petition: Fix Black Kats.

43 replies [Last post]

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 16:16

Gianor

So, I had just spent the last two hours farming the first level of Alone in the Dark, trying to hunt for Black Kats, and after running it a total of 27 times, I didn't find a single Black Kat. This is not the issue other times where I'll get one every run, or sometimes even two or three, but this is just ridiculous. I believe I speak for the community when I say: http://imgur.com/tHZPZK6

Changes that need to be made:

#1: Spawn Rates
They're just too low, I understand you gave us nearly two weeks with the event to do what we please, but it's just too hard and too tedious to hunt down the 17 Black Kats we need to find to be able to buy a fetish/hat. At this rate, we're better off grinding Firestorm Citadel for crowns and buying fetishes from the auction house, it seems way more consistent.

#2: Spawn Drops
Now, this was covered in another thread, but I figure I should mention it here. You can no longer join a party when a friend/guildmate finds a Black Kat, and receive drops for it. It takes away any collaboration between friend/guildmates to find Black Kats, and rather forces them to play together even for a chance of one, which becomes severely annoying for all party members.

#3: Prestige Mission
So, we're doing 2-3 levels, fighting 1-3 black kats at the end of these levels, and we only get a 4 token award (assuming that you encounter no other black kats along the way)? That's really stupid. Either the reward needs to get buffed, or the "Guaranteed Black Kat Spawns" need to drop pages as well.

Please fix this, and make this event enjoyable like the first Kataclysmic Confrontation was.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 16:20

Fallconn

1+, but move to suggestions

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 16:36

Whimsicality

What's worse is that unlike any other event, the rewards do not scale according to Difficulty. What's the point of playing on Elite if my odds are exactly the same, and I'm always going to get 3 pages per Black Kat?

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 16:51

Zethalan

Agreed, Black Kat spawn rates get quite ridiculous sometimes. The daily mission rewards are miles away from being good as well, thre is no reason to change the difficulty unless you want a better challenge.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 17:12

Datast

+1 No reason to run elite. I

+1
No reason to run elite.
I found about 2 Kats in about 5 entire runs of the current undead strata. (what is that, 4 floors?)
So 2 kats in 20 floors.

I'm pretty sure I just got lucky, though.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 17:56

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

That is kinda...the whole event seems like it's aimed at endlessly grinding...

OR they really want people to come back for the next event. However, at the current spawn rate, you'd think Black Kats would just show up every weekend instead of 4 weeks out of the year.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 18:10

Bopp

the reason to run elite

The reason to run Elite is: Advanced and Normal are too easy. Elite is more fun.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 18:14

Pandafishie

I agree with Bopp, and the OP.
Soloing is far too lonesome for me :/

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 18:17

Paintool

Why are we searching for

Why are we searching for black kats this way of random spawning?

why can't we have just the same random arena rooms like in Anniversary and just invite people to buttons?
Same difference?
They don't even have to be CW tunnel levels. Just add them to graveyards, Candlesticks, and haunted passages, etc.

Is this how we extend endgame content now?

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 18:42

Draycos

I find it ironic that the only way to really enjoy this event is, as Skepticraven said, to ignore it until you run into a Kat at random.

Unfortunately, that means the event is A) terrible and B) only halfway reasonable when you're not even having fun.

As I've said the first time, the second time, and now for a third time, I'm 100% in agreement that this event needs some reworking.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:13

#10

Datast

Welp. I've been farming the

Welp. I've been farming the entire time since my last post. (Same strata, Scared to Death and Alone in the Dark) and I have yet to see a Black Kat today.
That's about 2 hours of constantly fighting Kats without seeing one.
This is ridiculous.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:14

#11

Ill-Fate-Ill

....

I got 39 pages from a 3 hour grind. So yeah, please increase drop rates. Even with speedrunning.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:14

#12

Glacies

I agree wholeheartedly, the entire event is tedious and far from fun for anyone but people who are actually lucky enough to find about 2 Black Kats every run or even someone who has found a Book of Dark Rituals when I myself have yet to find one even after killing 300< Black Kats.

I honestly think that there either needs to be a gauntlet-type mission where it's a seek-and-destroy based mission where all Kat spawns turn into Black Kat spawns. The more Black Kats you defeat, the more Ancient Pages are rewarded at the end. If you jack-up the prices of a few things you can easily make this mission akin to Grinchlin Assault:

*Ancient Pages are a reward for seek-and-destroying Black Kats. You can choose to go further and further to increase your Ancient Page payout.
*However if you fail, you receive no rewards.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:38

#13

Datast

2h 30 minutes of

2h 30 minutes of grinding.
Just found my first Black Kat.

Seems balanced.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:54

#14

Feyi-Feyi

Don't try to organize a petition because of your inability to farm efficiently.

You can either:

-not farm, enjoy your game as normal and have a bonus. You lose all complaining rights.
-Farm efficiently, get lots of Kats and buy what you want. Speedrunning alone in the dark's first depth takes 4 minutes.

Besides, you all act like you are entitled to something. You're not. None of us are.
This is a 100% free promo that offers a small chance at the best helmet in the game.
Myself, and multiple others got 50 tokens in a day. This event runs 2 weeks. You can even be casual about it and still get a hat.

The right to join people after they'd find a Kat was lost when it was abused the first run.
The only reliable solution is just to make Kats drop more tokens in bigger parties, thus making teamwork desirable.
Of course the drop would have to be calculated on when it spawns, so people can't join in later.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 19:53

#15

Poomph

Harsh, but he's right. If I can get 20 pages in an hour, by myself, you guys can do it too.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 20:00

#16

Draycos

I thought games were supposed to be enjoyable experiences?

Why should a broken event like this exist?

Also, 'you just don't farm efficiently' makes no sense when there's absolutely nothing stopping you from never getting that book, ever, no matter how many hours you waste.

"You're entitled" isn't a strong reason. It's a badly designed event; it's not unreasonable to be complaining about it.

For the record- I'm not even complaining about this because I don't have a book. I have my fancy, incredibly powerful BKC already.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 20:11

#17

Feyi-Feyi

This is not a broken event. This event rewards what you put in to it and nothing more or less.
You don't have to do anything different than what you did the previous week. Enjoy it as usual. Get a bonus for free.

This thread is all about feeling entitled.
I don't see anything related to 'teamwork' or 'community' here.
I could understand that point of view, which is why I added how that aspect could be brought back in to play

The only thing displayed here is people not getting the things they want, when they want them, on their conditions. No fair game.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 20:35

#18

Paintool

Everyone needs to calm down,

Everyone needs to calm down, sit down at their desk, don't go outside, don't talk to anyone, don't help your friends and spend an honest to goodness 3 hours everyday playing by yourself to get some tokens.
If you don't get enough lucky numbers, you can always come back 6 months from now.
And when you come back 6 months from now to play the game again, you can expect to come back 6 months after that and get more lucky(maybe).
Time is money, and we want you spending your time looking for 1% things. (because they don't have to fix anything)

Being part of the 1% feels good.
"puts on BKC"
[remembers when books were shared mats like everything else a long, long time ago]

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 20:40

#19

Draycos

The event could reward you a lot or a little for the same amount of time you put into it. That alone is a big problem.

You do have to play differently; if you're not playing levels with Spookats in them, it's as if the event doesn't even exist. Unless you're running Candlestick, the odds are stacked against you even more.

Nah, read OP's #2.. Bringing the find-and-call style back definitely falls under 'community' and 'teamwork'. That's part of why its so much "harder"; unless you use that 'go solo' exploit, you're playing completely alone. Otherwise, you take more time than normal [esp. given we have better maps now].

Probably because it's not fair game in the first place. This isn't like Apocrea where skill and organization is more important than luck.

IMO, Apocrea was the best event, and even so it still had its problems.

You should get good gear because you were good enough to get it, not because you were lucky.

____

+1 Paintool.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 21:28

#20

Wavara

"-Farm efficiently, get lots of Kats and buy what you want. Speedrunning alone in the dark's first depth takes 4 minutes."
What about us who don't have AitD available to play? I've been rerunning D19 Emerald Bishop for hours. Not a single BK. Last time it wasn't THAT bad.

EDIT: Woohoo! Complaining DOES work! I've finally found my first BK ;^;

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 21:02

#21

Gianor

And it escalates, oh goodie.

@Feyi
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Feyi, I never said in any way that I felt as if I or anybody was "entitled" to anything. We're simply stating how ridiculously low the spawn rates are. You got 50 tokens per day? Good for you man, not the case for everybody else though.

Also, we're not complaining that getting a hat will be something we can never achieve. Of course, every player (with the exception of T1) is eligible to receive those prizes. This is simply a thread asking for balance with spawn rates and other issues.

You say it rewards us for what we put in? I put in two hours and got nothing of value in return, this is the case with other players as well. This is why this thread is here: to ask for a better reward for the time we spend grinding, rather than wasting our day with the current spawn rate; getting one every twenty minutes on average.

Stop trying to act like 'The judgment god of the forums' and base what I'm saying off of your own opinion; if you have an opinion, you are free to state it and I would like to hear it, but you don't have to go off assuming we're all greedy little bugs and that we're "entitled" to anything.
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@Poomph
Once again, that is not the case for all players, as people in game and on this thread are also receiving much less than you are. You got 20 tokens in an hour? Good for you, that still doesn't fix the fact that Black Kat spawn rates are too damn low.
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@Paintool
Now, I understand that this event isn't meant to be "Get all the items in one go!", but the rate at which they make you spend your time trying to achieve it, compared to the actual reward you get for it is just completely flawed and needs to be fixed.
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Well, that was a mouthful and a half :/
Can't believe I have to explain all this stuff when we're simply asking for some fixes that would make the event more enjoyable and appealing to players.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 21:35

#22

Feyi-Feyi

Do you even realize how much you contradict yourself?

When you say 'that is not the case for all players' you yourself acknowledge that not everyone shares your problem.
Yet you're asking for drop rates to be changed regardless of that fact.

If you want my opinion: spawn rates are fine. You're complaining 2 days into a 14 day event, that is scheduled to return.
You might not get everything you want this time. It wasn't designed to be that way.

Thu, 05/01/2014 - 21:41

#23

Gianor

My dear feyi.

True, there is slight contradiction, but it still doesn't change the fact that the spawn rates are too low. So low in fact that the majority of players will struggle to get a single kat spawn every twenty minutes. And that's why it needs to be changed.

I may be complaining, but it's a problem for most players out there when you can't reach event related content because there's a 1% chance that it will spawn.

And I acknowledged that it isn't supposed to be like that: "Now, I understand that this event isn't meant to be "Get all the items in one go!"". But the rate at which they let you earn needs to change, as in some cases, you don't earn at all.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 06:08

#24

Seiran

h8rs

Actually, since the event started, I played Candlestick Keep for the first time just today. I joined someone in the middle of her run, and we found 3 black kats before the end of the floor.

I was sitting wondering if the spawn rates were too high.

RNG ;>

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 04:04

#25

Whimsicality

Pro tip: complaining about Black Kats does attract them. I whined to my friend about not finding any in hours, then BAM, two spawn in the same room. So keep up the crying!

/me hands out buckets and tissue boxes

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 04:22

#26

Midnight-Dj

...*sigh*... still banned from the game

Probably because it's not fair game in the first place.~Draycos

You mean, this game is a non subscription, 'freemium based' game... the drop/spawn chance of a book/BK is still the same for everyone(the same could be said about the UV chances), you should be glad that OOO isn't giving away premium memberships with better drop rate and UV chances. (oh crud...... did I just give OOO another bad idea?)

RNG treats everyone the same, it doesn't play favourite, if you are having bad luck today, try tomorrow, no one can be unlucky forever

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 04:22

#27

Datast

Actually... I was complaining

Actually... I was complaining to my girlfriend about how i hadn't' found one in an hour and one popped up right then and there.
Interesting.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 05:09

#28

Lanieu

+1 ...and no, don't move this

+1 ...and no, don't move this to suggestions.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 05:10

#29

Red-Galaxy

The black kata love the noise

The black kata love the noise of our complaining and so we attract them with our crying. Hmm what if i threatened them?

*grabs hammer*

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 06:07

#30

Mtax-Forum

+1, but also

#4: Option for people, who already had Seraphynx.
Raising second seraphynx with exactly the same stats just for diffrent look is super silly and nobody will do this. There should be option to curse already owned Seraphynx, even in expensive way.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 06:20

#31

Oroseira

Here's how many pages I got in about four hours of grinding:
Nine.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 06:21

#32

Kitastrophy

"Yay"

I've revived two black books, I sold one and kept the other. For the amount of time I spent playing and the amount of bored displeasure it took to get them.

Yeah. Least favorite event of all. An honorable mentioned gold star to Feyi as well. For both their "entitled" spiel and continued worship of the devs for their poor choice of game design.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 06:33

#33

Feyi-Feyi

If we're gonna make it personal, all you're getting out of me is the following: 'your mom'.

Present arguments, not mud slinging if you want to make a point.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 07:08

#34

Justandy

Good old times.

Remember this? Last year <3
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/87628

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 07:36

#35

Cheshireccat

I have NO idea how OOO expects anyone to earn the regular kat helmets. I've been farming Waste since yesterday and keeping track of BKs and drops in a spreadsheet.
You're looking at a half hour of speed-run grinding for 3 tokens. That's over 30 hours of work in 12 days for one piece of gear. Most people don't play that much SK and/or can't commit that kind of time to enjoy the fruits of the event.
(Not even talking about BKC drop rate)

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 11:27

#36

Kitastrophy

"Your Mom"

Would likely find the event boring, uneventful and lacking in substance too. The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:43

#37

Coreonn

It is just too hard

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:52

#38

Draycos

"RNG treats everyone the same, it doesn't play favourite, if you are having bad luck today, try tomorrow, no one can be unlucky forever"

No matter what the chances are at, if it takes someone 7 hours to find a book and someone else 70, for no reason other than chance, it isn't fair.

It's almost like I've said this before..

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 16:50

#39

Tockron

Low spawn chance is an understatement...

Trying to get the pages is just monotonous and frustrating at the moment. It took me 4 hours to find my first Black Kat. Right now I have a chance of finding one after 1 hour of solid farming.

In order to get a 5 star cowl I will need to play for at least 55 hours with each run taking 5-8 minutes.

I really don't see how the devs consider this reasonable. I know it is a chance of finding a BK but every other event was attainable by a casual player. The other events let you repeat the missions until you got what you needed. This time there is no way to get the resources without putting in way more hours then you will for anything else.

Edit: btw Poomph. Care to describe exactly what you were doing to get that many pages? (farming area, solo or team, difficulty level, was it even during this event, etc) Chances are I am doing the same thing and am not getting any results from it.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:13

#40

Amnimonus

When can easily say that I have killed more tortodrones than I have black Kats something is wrong, this wasn't so bad when we could invite our friends every time we found a black kat, it would encourage guild members to be on at the same time and we could together. To bad this also encourage the creation of alts to farm for materials.

If black kat where a regular rare enemy not tied to and event the spawn rate would be more than generous and actually add meaning to that hint in the loading screen that told us to keep an eye out for rare monsters.

Overall I found 5 kats after 8 hour or farming time and it feels tedious to just run speed run through levels (tried a few missions alone in the dark, the weight of darkness and owlite occurrence) over all it feel dull and taste less, if this weren't a timed event I would be complaining. I just don't like that as of late there more advantage to soloing a level rather than teaming up with friends.

One that note I want to ask if anyone has spotted a black kat in any of the scarlet fortress type level because I've notice that it has a large amount of kat but ever since the last i never found one there.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:21

#41

Skyguarder

I find it funny at the fact that the playerbase/community complains about gear not dropping from boxes in the clockworks, then complains about the Black Kat spawn rate.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:22

#42

Gianor

/sigh

Another hour and a half of my life wasted ^.^

Mon, 05/05/2014 - 13:26

#43

Cheshireccat

120 WoD Runs

After 120 WoD runs (I kept track) I've found 35 BKs. I can't even tell you how many hours I spent this weekend to get that far but I know it was a lot. And I still don't have enough to make a Kat mask.

If the only way to earn a piece of gear is by crazy insane farming, then something is wrong.

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Petition: Fix Black Kats.